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Changed line(s) 9,10 (click to see context) from:
* Ayla may have had other family besides her parents (it doesn't specify which members she lost exactly in the earthquake). As Ayla wandered away, was later taken in by the Clan, and then journeyed an whole continent away, they would never have found any trace of her and would be left forever wondering what became of her]]...
* Due to their [[EternalSexualFreedom very liberal views on sex and the fact it's considered normal to have [[EveryoneHasLotsOfSex lots of sexual partners]], the Cro-Magnon tribes must have some issues with STI's and related diseases, which they may not understand the origins of or know how to treat. Because of this lack of knowledge and the sanctioning of promiscuity, STI's could spread like wildfire.
* Due to their [[EternalSexualFreedom very liberal views on sex and the fact it's considered normal to have [[EveryoneHasLotsOfSex lots of sexual partners]], the Cro-Magnon tribes must have some issues with STI's and related diseases, which they may not understand the origins of or know how to treat. Because of this lack of knowledge and the sanctioning of promiscuity, STI's could spread like wildfire.
to:
* Ayla may have had other family besides her parents (it doesn't specify which members she lost exactly in the earthquake). As Ayla wandered away, was later taken in by the Clan, and then journeyed an whole continent away, they would never have found any trace of her and would be left forever wondering what became of her]]...
her...
* Due to their [[EternalSexualFreedom very liberal views onsex sex]] and the fact it's considered normal to have [[EveryoneHasLotsOfSex lots of sexual partners]], the Cro-Magnon tribes must have some issues with STI's and related diseases, which they may not understand the origins of or know how to treat. Because of this lack of knowledge and the sanctioning of promiscuity, STI's could spread like wildfire.
* Due to their [[EternalSexualFreedom very liberal views on
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Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
* I’ve read the first four books several times, but it only ocurred to me recently that Fralie didn’t just randomly choose the name Bectie for her daughter. She quite possibly chose the name as a gesture of love to the baby’s father — Frebec. He longed so desperately to be welcomed and accepted, and giving the first child born to his hearth a name similar to his would be a way for Fralie to show him he belonged in their family.
to:
* I’ve read the first four books several times, but it only ocurred occurred to me recently that Fralie didn’t just randomly choose the name Bectie for her daughter. She quite possibly chose the name as a gesture of love to the baby’s father — Frebec. He longed so desperately to be welcomed and accepted, and giving the first child born to his hearth a name similar to his would be a way for Fralie to show him he belonged in their family.family.
** This is strongly implied to be the case in the book; when Ayla asks what name Fralie chose for her baby, she says she hopes it will make Frebec happy before revealing the name.
* Ladroman changing his name to Madroman likely wasn't just because he wanted a fresh start after he began training with the zelandonia, but also because it's easier for him to pronounce without reminding himself of his disfigurement; it's mentioned that Jondalar knocked out his two front teeth, giving him a lisp when he says certain words, and an "L" sound is especially difficult to produce with this kind of injury (as the tongue touches the teeth to form "L"). An "M" sound comparatively doesn't cause so many issues, along with the other letters in his name, so simply changing the first letter of his name likely made things easier for him.
----
** This is strongly implied to be the case in the book; when Ayla asks what name Fralie chose for her baby, she says she hopes it will make Frebec happy before revealing the name.
* Ladroman changing his name to Madroman likely wasn't just because he wanted a fresh start after he began training with the zelandonia, but also because it's easier for him to pronounce without reminding himself of his disfigurement; it's mentioned that Jondalar knocked out his two front teeth, giving him a lisp when he says certain words, and an "L" sound is especially difficult to produce with this kind of injury (as the tongue touches the teeth to form "L"). An "M" sound comparatively doesn't cause so many issues, along with the other letters in his name, so simply changing the first letter of his name likely made things easier for him.
----
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Changed line(s) 9,10 (click to see context) from:
* Ayla may have had other family besides her parents (it doesn't specify which members she lost exactly in the earthquake). As Ayla wandered away, was later taken in by the Clan, and then journeyed an whole continent away, they would never have found any trace of her and [[AdultFear would be left forever wondering what became of her]]...
* Due to their [[EternalSexualFreedom very liberal views on sex]] and the fact it's considered normal to have [[EveryoneHasLotsOfSex lots of sexual partners]], the Cro-Magnon tribes must have some issues with STI's and related diseases, which they may not understand the origins of or know how to treat. Because of this lack of knowledge and the sanctioning of promiscuity, STI's could spread like wildfire.
* Due to their [[EternalSexualFreedom very liberal views on sex]] and the fact it's considered normal to have [[EveryoneHasLotsOfSex lots of sexual partners]], the Cro-Magnon tribes must have some issues with STI's and related diseases, which they may not understand the origins of or know how to treat. Because of this lack of knowledge and the sanctioning of promiscuity, STI's could spread like wildfire.
to:
* Ayla may have had other family besides her parents (it doesn't specify which members she lost exactly in the earthquake). As Ayla wandered away, was later taken in by the Clan, and then journeyed an whole continent away, they would never have found any trace of her and [[AdultFear would be left forever wondering what became of her]]...
* Due to their [[EternalSexualFreedom very liberal views onsex]] sex and the fact it's considered normal to have [[EveryoneHasLotsOfSex lots of sexual partners]], the Cro-Magnon tribes must have some issues with STI's and related diseases, which they may not understand the origins of or know how to treat. Because of this lack of knowledge and the sanctioning of promiscuity, STI's could spread like wildfire.
* Due to their [[EternalSexualFreedom very liberal views on
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** Only as far as such diseases already existed back in the day. Gotta keep in mind that a big load of these only developed as civilisations grew, indeed many are not more than a few hundred years old. Also, considering the medical standards, as harsh as it may sound, people who were seriously ill probably just died out, maybe in amounts of entire tribes.
to:
** Only as far as such diseases already existed back in the day. Gotta keep in mind that a big load of these only developed as civilisations grew, indeed many are not more than a few hundred years old. Also, considering the medical standards, as harsh as it may sound, people who were seriously ill probably just died out, maybe in amounts of entire tribes.tribes.
[[AC:FridgeBrilliance]]
* I’ve read the first four books several times, but it only ocurred to me recently that Fralie didn’t just randomly choose the name Bectie for her daughter. She quite possibly chose the name as a gesture of love to the baby’s father — Frebec. He longed so desperately to be welcomed and accepted, and giving the first child born to his hearth a name similar to his would be a way for Fralie to show him he belonged in their family.
[[AC:FridgeBrilliance]]
* I’ve read the first four books several times, but it only ocurred to me recently that Fralie didn’t just randomly choose the name Bectie for her daughter. She quite possibly chose the name as a gesture of love to the baby’s father — Frebec. He longed so desperately to be welcomed and accepted, and giving the first child born to his hearth a name similar to his would be a way for Fralie to show him he belonged in their family.
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Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
* Due to their [[EternalSexualFreedom very liberal views on sex]] and the fact it's considered normal to have [[EveryoneHasLotsOfSex lots of sexual partners]], the Cro-Magnon tribes must have some issues with STI's and related diseases, which they may not understand the origins of or know how to treat. Because of this lack of knowledge and the sanctioning of promiscuity, STI's could spread like wildfire.
to:
* Due to their [[EternalSexualFreedom very liberal views on sex]] and the fact it's considered normal to have [[EveryoneHasLotsOfSex lots of sexual partners]], the Cro-Magnon tribes must have some issues with STI's and related diseases, which they may not understand the origins of or know how to treat. Because of this lack of knowledge and the sanctioning of promiscuity, STI's could spread like wildfire.wildfire.
** Only as far as such diseases already existed back in the day. Gotta keep in mind that a big load of these only developed as civilisations grew, indeed many are not more than a few hundred years old. Also, considering the medical standards, as harsh as it may sound, people who were seriously ill probably just died out, maybe in amounts of entire tribes.
** Only as far as such diseases already existed back in the day. Gotta keep in mind that a big load of these only developed as civilisations grew, indeed many are not more than a few hundred years old. Also, considering the medical standards, as harsh as it may sound, people who were seriously ill probably just died out, maybe in amounts of entire tribes.
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Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
* Ayla may have had other family besides her parents (it doesn't specify which members she lost exactly in the earthquake). As Ayla wandered away, was later taken in by the Clan, and then journeyed an whole continent away, they would never have found any trace of her and [[AdultFear would be left forever wondering what became of her]]...
to:
* Ayla may have had other family besides her parents (it doesn't specify which members she lost exactly in the earthquake). As Ayla wandered away, was later taken in by the Clan, and then journeyed an whole continent away, they would never have found any trace of her and [[AdultFear would be left forever wondering what became of her]]...her]]...
* Due to their [[EternalSexualFreedom very liberal views on sex]] and the fact it's considered normal to have [[EveryoneHasLotsOfSex lots of sexual partners]], the Cro-Magnon tribes must have some issues with STI's and related diseases, which they may not understand the origins of or know how to treat. Because of this lack of knowledge and the sanctioning of promiscuity, STI's could spread like wildfire.
* Due to their [[EternalSexualFreedom very liberal views on sex]] and the fact it's considered normal to have [[EveryoneHasLotsOfSex lots of sexual partners]], the Cro-Magnon tribes must have some issues with STI's and related diseases, which they may not understand the origins of or know how to treat. Because of this lack of knowledge and the sanctioning of promiscuity, STI's could spread like wildfire.
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Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* Ayla may have had other family besides her parents (it doesn't specify which members she lost exactly in the earthquake). As Ayla wandered away, was later taken in by the Clan, and then journeyed an whole continent away, they wuld never have found any trace of her and[[AdultFear would be left forever wondering what became of her]]...
to:
*** Ayla does wonder, when Jondalar introduces her to the 'gift of pleasure', if Clan couples actually do engage in some form of foreplay and she simply never noticed. After all, the only sexual encounter that is described in detail amongst the Clan is Broud raping Ayla...
* Ayla may have had other family besides her parents (it doesn't specify which members she lost exactly in the earthquake). As Ayla wandered away, was later taken in by the Clan, and then journeyed an whole continent away, theywuld would never have found any trace of her and[[AdultFear and [[AdultFear would be left forever wondering what became of her]]...
* Ayla may have had other family besides her parents (it doesn't specify which members she lost exactly in the earthquake). As Ayla wandered away, was later taken in by the Clan, and then journeyed an whole continent away, they
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Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
** Clan children see adults engaging in intercourse, and girls see women occasionally do things that seem to invite the men of the camp to use them for relief. Clan children also imitate adult behaviors, including a mock-version of intercourse involving boys that can't get arousals bumping against girls who haven't reached menarche yet. So are the "young coquettes" really "beguiling" the adult men into sex before they've had a period? Or are they innocently imitating the older women with the sometimes result of getting more than they bargained for with a side order of "she wanted it; I could tell from how she was acting"?
to:
** Clan children see adults engaging in intercourse, and girls see women occasionally do things that seem to invite the men of the camp to use them for relief. Clan children also imitate adult behaviors, including a mock-version of intercourse involving boys that can't get arousals bumping against girls who haven't reached menarche yet. So are the "young coquettes" really "beguiling" the adult men into sex before they've had a period? Or are they innocently imitating the older women with the sometimes result of getting more than they bargained for with a side order of "she wanted it; I could tell from how she was acting"?acting"?
* Ayla may have had other family besides her parents (it doesn't specify which members she lost exactly in the earthquake). As Ayla wandered away, was later taken in by the Clan, and then journeyed an whole continent away, they wuld never have found any trace of her and[[AdultFear would be left forever wondering what became of her]]...
* Ayla may have had other family besides her parents (it doesn't specify which members she lost exactly in the earthquake). As Ayla wandered away, was later taken in by the Clan, and then journeyed an whole continent away, they wuld never have found any trace of her and[[AdultFear would be left forever wondering what became of her]]...
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*** The books discuss how sex was an ordinary activity right along with breathing and serving a meal. Ayla talks about this, and about motive. She says that if a man wanted to have sex with her out of genuine desire, and not to punish, humiliate, or otherwise hurt her, it would have been acceptable, and not a matter of shame or anguish.
*** Grown Clan women (and even Clan girls, are also bigger and stronger (if not necessarily taller) than a ten-year-old Cro-Magnon girl. The Clan's sex-differentiated evolution may also have made them psychologically and physically more conducive to sex.
*** There are still some good questions: if another man had given Ayla the signal, how would both parties have handled her first time? One also has to wonder how Clan women who hated a particular man dealt with and interpreted it when said man gave her the signal (e.g., Iza and her abusive mate).
*** Grown Clan women (and even Clan girls, are also bigger and stronger (if not necessarily taller) than a ten-year-old Cro-Magnon girl. The Clan's sex-differentiated evolution may also have made them psychologically and physically more conducive to sex.
*** There are still some good questions: if another man had given Ayla the signal, how would both parties have handled her first time? One also has to wonder how Clan women who hated a particular man dealt with and interpreted it when said man gave her the signal (e.g., Iza and her abusive mate).
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There is a double standard that men may have variations in penis size naturally, but if a woman has a larger-than-average vagina, it means that she had lots of sex (i.e., slut-shaming) or suffered sexual abuse. In this example, Jondalar has a large penis, but no one is suggesting that it is due to sexual abuse. However, given that Ayla was raped repeatedly at ten by a grown man, and suffered a near-fatal burth at eleven, it is a wonder that she did not suffer permanent damage, but went on to have a normal sexual and maternal life.
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* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. [[IncrediblyLamePun Enter Ayla]], who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''ten''.
** Take that one step further: the only other person who could ever accommodate him without complaint was Zolena/Zelandoni. If the reason Ayla could accommodate him was because of the sexual trauma Broud put her through, what in the name of the Mother happened to Zolena?
** Take that one step further: the only other person who could ever accommodate him without complaint was Zolena/Zelandoni. If the reason Ayla could accommodate him was because of the sexual trauma Broud put her through, what in the name of the Mother happened to Zolena?
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Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. [[IncrediblyLamePun Enter Ayla]], who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''ten''.
to:
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. [[IncrediblyLamePun Enter Ayla]], who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''ten''.''ten''.
** Take that one step further: the only other person who could ever accommodate him without complaint was Zolena/Zelandoni. If the reason Ayla could accommodate him was because of the sexual trauma Broud put her through, what in the name of the Mother happened to Zolena?
* Clan women are raised to simply drop whatever they are doing, go down on all fours and present if a man makes a signal that he's got a stiffy and he wants to take care of it with her. This is the norm for any female once she's begun menstruating, regardless of age or experience. At one point in ''Clan of the Cave Bear'', Auel even says that men of the Clan "beguiled by a young coquette" will relieve their arousals with a girl who hasn't yet reached puberty. Ignoring the fact that the lifespan of Clan people means that [[{{Squick}} the ages at which different stages of development are reached are drastically lower than the ages at which we reach the same stages today]], that still begs a few questions that almost qualify as NightmareFuel:
** Did Clan women live in some kind of perpetually-lubricated state, where their bodies were naturally ready for intercourse at all times? Does the higher threshold that Clan people seem to have for pain mean that being penetrated without any foreplay is the equivalent of a slip-and-fall for Clan women: uncomfortable, leaving you a little achy, but otherwise you just pick up, dust off and go back to your day? Or are the women just psychologically conditioned to ignore being repeatedly raped until their bodies no longer respond to the painful stimuli?
** Clan children see adults engaging in intercourse, and girls see women occasionally do things that seem to invite the men of the camp to use them for relief. Clan children also imitate adult behaviors, including a mock-version of intercourse involving boys that can't get arousals bumping against girls who haven't reached menarche yet. So are the "young coquettes" really "beguiling" the adult men into sex before they've had a period? Or are they innocently imitating the older women with the sometimes result of getting more than they bargained for with a side order of "she wanted it; I could tell from how she was acting"?
** Take that one step further: the only other person who could ever accommodate him without complaint was Zolena/Zelandoni. If the reason Ayla could accommodate him was because of the sexual trauma Broud put her through, what in the name of the Mother happened to Zolena?
* Clan women are raised to simply drop whatever they are doing, go down on all fours and present if a man makes a signal that he's got a stiffy and he wants to take care of it with her. This is the norm for any female once she's begun menstruating, regardless of age or experience. At one point in ''Clan of the Cave Bear'', Auel even says that men of the Clan "beguiled by a young coquette" will relieve their arousals with a girl who hasn't yet reached puberty. Ignoring the fact that the lifespan of Clan people means that [[{{Squick}} the ages at which different stages of development are reached are drastically lower than the ages at which we reach the same stages today]], that still begs a few questions that almost qualify as NightmareFuel:
** Did Clan women live in some kind of perpetually-lubricated state, where their bodies were naturally ready for intercourse at all times? Does the higher threshold that Clan people seem to have for pain mean that being penetrated without any foreplay is the equivalent of a slip-and-fall for Clan women: uncomfortable, leaving you a little achy, but otherwise you just pick up, dust off and go back to your day? Or are the women just psychologically conditioned to ignore being repeatedly raped until their bodies no longer respond to the painful stimuli?
** Clan children see adults engaging in intercourse, and girls see women occasionally do things that seem to invite the men of the camp to use them for relief. Clan children also imitate adult behaviors, including a mock-version of intercourse involving boys that can't get arousals bumping against girls who haven't reached menarche yet. So are the "young coquettes" really "beguiling" the adult men into sex before they've had a period? Or are they innocently imitating the older women with the sometimes result of getting more than they bargained for with a side order of "she wanted it; I could tell from how she was acting"?
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Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. [[IncrediblyLamePun Enter Ayla]], who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''eleven''
to:
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. [[IncrediblyLamePun Enter Ayla]], who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''eleven''''ten''.
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Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. Enter Ayla, who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''eleven''
to:
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. [[IncrediblyLamePun Enter Ayla, Ayla]], who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''eleven''
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Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. [Enter Ayla IncrediblyLamePun], who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''eleven''
to:
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. [Enter Ayla IncrediblyLamePun], Enter Ayla, who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''eleven''
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Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. [[Enter Ayla IncrediblyLamePun]], who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''eleven''
to:
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. [[Enter [Enter Ayla IncrediblyLamePun]], IncrediblyLamePun], who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''eleven''
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hurr hurr
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. Enter Ayla, who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''eleven''
to:
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. Enter Ayla, [[Enter Ayla IncrediblyLamePun]], who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''eleven''
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[[AC:FridgeHorror]]
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. Enter Ayla, who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''eleven''
* Jondalar is so well-endowed that other women of his tribe can't handle his full length without pain. Enter Ayla, who can. This seems like a match made in heaven until you realize that the only reason she can accommodate him is because she was repeatedly raped by Broud since the age of about ''eleven''
