History FranchiseOriginalSin / Terminator

* ''Film/TerminatorDarkFate'' was a BoxOfficeBomb, despite CriticalDissonance (in the form of a 70% score on Rotten Tomatoes, better than most of the weaker Terminator sequels), with most critics and post-mortem analyses blaming the film's decision to kill off John Connor at the beginning, shortly after the events of ''[[Film/Terminator2JudgmentDay Judgment Day]]'', as one of, if not '''the''' main reason why. Fans were extremely put off by the idea of the franchise's [[TheChosenOne Chosen One]] being killed off so callously to make room for a new plot and characters, but the franchise has been making attempts to devalue John Connor's importance since at least ''Judgment Day''. In that film, John repeatedly puts his own life in danger to rescue others and continuously made it clear that [[SmallStepsHero he won't dismiss other people's lives in favor of his own]]. In ''Rise of the Machines'', we learn that John's wife Kate took over as commander of the Resistance after John's death, in the original ending to ''Salvation'', [[{{Foreshadowing}} changed after poorly testing with audiences]], Marcus [[DeadPersonImpersonation takes over John's identity after Connor's death to provide a symbol for the Resistance to continue to rally around]], and in ''Genisys'', Future John himself not only becomes TheDragon to Skynet, but Kyle and Sarah stop Judgment Day themselves and John is never conceived. The difference is that ''Rise of the Machines'' and ''Genisys'' delayed John's death until ''after'' he'd grown up, giving him a more dignified send-off than merely blowing him away shortly after surviving the encounter with the T-1000 and thus rendering ''Judgment Day'' [[HappyEndingOverride pointless]].[[note]]While Judgment Day is at least successfully prevented in ''Dark Fate'' in spite of this, [[HistoryRepeats a new AI named Legion goes rogue just as easily as Skynet did]], causing a similar BadFuture.[[/note]] Thus, in all the proceeding films, the message about the importance of human life could be extended to "All human life is important, ''including John Connor's''"... which could not be said about ''Dark Fate'', [[ShootTheShaggyDog which ultimately treated John's life as expendable and replaceable]], including having the T-800 that shot John team up with Sarah, Dani, and Grace to defeat the Rev-9 Terminator.

* ''Film/TerminatorDarkFate'' was a BoxOfficeBomb, despite CriticalDissonance (in the form of a 70% score on Rotten Tomatoes, better than most of the weaker Terminator sequels), with most critics and post-mortem analyses blaming the film's decision to kill off John Connor at the beginning, shortly after the events of ''[[Film/Terminator2JudgmentDay Judgment Day]]'', as one of, if not '''the''' main reason why. Fans were extremely put off by the idea of the franchise's [[TheChosenOne Chosen One]] being killed off so callously to make room for a new plot and characters, but the franchise has been making attempts to devalue John Connor's importance since at least ''Judgment Day''. In that film, John repeatedly puts his own life in danger to rescue others and continuously made it clear that [[SmallStepsHero he won't dismiss other people's lives in favor of his own]]. In ''Rise of the Machines'', we learn that John's wife Kate took over as commander of the Resistance after John's death, and in ''Genisys'', Future John himself not only becomes TheDragon to Skynet, but Kyle and Sarah stop Judgment Day themselves and John is never conceived. The difference is that ''Rise of the Machines'' and ''Genisys'' delayed John's death until ''after'' he'd grown up, giving him a more dignified send-off than merely blowing him away shortly after surviving the encounter with the T-1000 and thus rendering ''Judgment Day'' [[HappyEndingOverride pointless]].[[note]]While Judgment Day is at least successfully prevented in ''Dark Fate'' in spite of this, [[HistoryRepeats a new AI named Legion goes rogue just as easily as Skynet did]], causing a similar BadFuture.[[/note]] Thus, in all the proceeding films, the message about the importance of human life could be extended to "All human life is important, ''including John Connor's''"... which could not be said about ''Dark Fate'', [[ShootTheShaggyDog which ultimately treated John's life as expendable and replaceable]], including having the T-800 that shot John team up with Sarah, Dani, and Grace to defeat the Rev-9 Terminator.

* Skynet goes through quite a bit of VillainDecay throughout the series as it gradually becomes clear that using Terminators is a horribly inefficient way to kill people. After Skynet's failures in the first two films, the Terminators practically become TheArtifact, as one naturally wonders why their masters can't come up with other ways to beat the humans--like radiation, chemical weapons, or biological agents, which are harmless to machines but deadly to humans. The inefficiency was excusable in the first movie, partly because the series' trademark {{Ridiculously Human Robot}}s were still a novel concept, and partly because it was heavily implied that (like TimeTravel) the Terminators were experimental weapons used as a last resort after the Resistance arose from nothing and wiped out most of the Machines' resources. Even when we got another Terminator villain in ''Film/Terminator2JudgmentDay'', it could be forgiven because the T-1000 was actually an improvement over the T-800, making it seem like Skynet actually adapted and learned from its previous failure. But after that, future Terminators like [[Film/Terminator3RiseOfTheMachines the T-X]] and [[Series/TerminatorTheSarahConnorChronicles Cromartie]] largely became rehashes of the originals, and it became less forgivable when ''Film/TerminatorSalvation'' and ''Film/TerminatorGenisys'' made it clear that Skynet knew what would happen in the future, and was actively preparing for it. It also didn't help that ''Film/Terminator3RiseOfTheMachines'' and ''Series/TerminatorTheSarahConnorChronicles'' made it clear that several Terminators had unshielded nuclear fuel cells, essentially making them walking nukes, but they apparently needed machine guns and knife-hands to kill humans. This trend reached its low point in ''Genisys'', where Skynet changes things up by inventing nanomachines that can infect humans... then uses them to make ''another Terminator'' that can only infect one person at a time.

* Skynet goes through quite a bit of VillainDecay throughout the series as it gradually becomes clear that using Terminators is a horribly inefficient way to kill people. After Skynet's failures in the first two films, the Terminators practically become TheArtifact, as one naturally wonders why their masters can't come up with other ways to beat the humans--like radiation, chemical weapons, or biological agents, which are harmless to machines but deadly to humans. The inefficiency was excusable in the first movie, partly because the series' trademark {{Ridiculously Human Robot}}s were still a novel concept, and partly because it was heavily implied that (like TimeTravel) the Terminators were experimental weapons used as a last resort after the Resistance arose from nothing and wiped out most of the Machines' resources. Even when we got another Terminator villain in ''Film/Terminator2JudgmentDay'', it could be forgiven because it was actually an improvement over the T-800, making it seem like Skynet actually adapted and learned from its previous failure. But after that, future Terminators like [[Film/Terminator3RiseOfTheMachines the T-X]] and [[Series/TerminatorTheSarahConnorChronicles Cromartie]] largely became rehashes of the originals, and it became less forgivable when ''Film/TerminatorSalvation'' and ''Film/TerminatorGenisys'' made it clear that Skynet knew what would happen in the future, and was actively preparing for it. It also didn't help that ''Film/Terminator3RiseOfTheMachines'' and ''Series/TerminatorTheSarahConnorChronicles'' made it clear that several Terminators had unshielded nuclear fuel cells, essentially making them walking nukes, but they apparently needed machine guns and knife-hands to kill humans. This trend reached its low point in ''Genisys'', where Skynet changes things up by inventing nanomachines that can infect humans... then uses them to make ''another Terminator'' that can only infect one person at a time.

* The way Skynet resorts to [[SortingAlgorithmOfEvil increasingly advanced Terminator models]] to add to the menace. The original film had the T-800. ''Film/Terminator2JudgmentDay'' added the T-1000, and ''Film/Terminator3RiseOfTheMachines'' included the TX model, and so on with each subsequent installment in the franchise. But since the most iconic character of the franchise is Schwarzenegger's T-800 [[note]]T-850 in ''[[Film/Terminator3RiseOfTheMachines Rise of the Machines]]''[[/note]], they have to include it, preferably helping the good guys. This has the problem of having to make an increasingly obsolete machine somehow helpful against its increasingly superior iterations and even pivotal to each installment's plot. You'd think that Skynet would eventually figure out a way to neutralize the several T-800s hijacked by the Resistance every now and then.

* Some fans criticized the prototype T-800 in ''Terminator Salvation'' for being too durable, noting that it survived not only grenade launcher rounds but exposure to molten steel -- essentially giving it durability that exceeded what the original 1984 T-800 was capable of, despite being a prototype model made in 2018. However, if you pay careful attention to what both T-800s went through in the first two movies, the prototype's durability is not that outrageous. The original Terminator survived a tanker explosion far larger than a 40mm grenade launcher, which while briefly taking it out of commission ultimately only burned out its fleshy exterior before it resumes its chase for Sarah. The pipe bomb that Kyle places in the T-800's frame blows its legs and left arm off, but the machine's torso and CPU remain intact and it still has enough function left to crawl around. The T-800 in ''T2'' is lowered into the molten steel by Sarah, but even after its head is completely submerged under the steel its CPU function does not turn off automatically - which makes sense, as it's probably made of a metal with a higher melting point (for instance, titanium is over 100 degrees above iron), so it stands to reason even a Terminator wouldn't be immediately melted by exposure to molten steel but would need to remain submerged for some time before it ceased functioning. The original Terminator's only anti-feat was being knocked on its back by multiple blasts from Kyle Reese's shotgun- which is not only somewhat believable given [[FridgeBrilliance the endo-skeleton can only weigh so much no matter how durable,]] and is [[PlotArmor nessecary to save Sarah for the first time.]] The T-800 seen in ''Salvation'' is not a SuperPrototype made out of some superior material to survive what it did - any T-800 was capable of enduring that kind of punishment. And ironically it brings back comes down to a point mentioned above, in that the filmmakers tried and succeeded to make the T-800 threatening again, but the fans still found something to complain about, if only because they forgot how horrifyingly strong they are (and how it was a feat that humanity still won despite the odds) after two movies trying to introduce stronger Terminators.

* Some fans criticized the prototype T-800 in ''Terminator Salvation'' for being too durable, noting that it survived not only grenade launcher rounds but exposure to molten steel -- essentially giving it durability that exceeded what the original 1984 T-800 was capable of, despite being a prototype model made in 2018. However, if you pay careful attention to what both T-800s went through in the first two movies, the prototype's durability is not that outrageous. The original Terminator survived a tanker explosion far larger than a 40mm grenade launcher, which while briefly taking it out of commission ultimately only burned out its fleshy exterior before it resumes its chase for Sarah. The pipe bomb that Kyle places in the T-800's frame blows its legs and left arm off, but the machine's torso and CPU remain intact and it still has enough function left to crawl around. The T-800 in ''T2'' is lowered into the molten steel by Sarah, but even after its head is completely submerged under the steel its CPU function does not turn off automatically - which makes sense, as it's probably made of a metal with a higher melting point (for instance, titanium is over 100 degrees above iron), so it stands to reason even a Terminator wouldn't be immediately melted by exposure to molten steel but would need to remain submerged for some time before it ceased functioning. The original Terminator's only anti-feat was being knocked on its back by multiple blasts from Kyle Reese's shotgun- which is not only somewhat believable given [[FridgeBrilliance the endo-skeleton can only weigh so much no matter how durable,]] and is [[PlotArmous neccescary to save Sarah for the first time.]] It is not a SuperPrototype made out of some superior material to survive what it did - any T-800 was capable of enduring that kind of punishment. And ironically it brings back comes down to a point mentioned above, in that the filmmakers tried and succeeded to make the T-800 threatening again, but the fans still found something to complain about, if only because they forgot how horrifyingly strong they are (and how it was a feat that humanity still won despite the odds) after two movies trying to introduce stronger Terminators.

* Some fans criticized the prototype T-800 in ''Terminator Salvation'' for being too durable, noting that it survived not only grenade launcher rounds but exposure to molten steel -- essentially giving it durability that exceeded what the original 1984 T-800 was capable of, despite being a prototype model made in 2018. However, if you pay careful attention to what both T-800s went through in the first two movies, the prototype's durability is not that outrageous. The original Terminator survived a tanker explosion far larger than a 40mm grenade launcher, which while briefly taking it out of commission ultimately only burned out its fleshy exterior before it resumes its chase for Sarah. The pipe bomb that Kyle places in the T-800's frame blows its legs and left arm off, but the machine's torso and CPU remain intact and it still has enough function left to crawl around. The T-800 in ''T2'' is lowered into the molten steel by Sarah, but even after its head is completely submerged under the steel its CPU function does not turn off automatically - which makes sense, as it's probably made of a metal with a higher melting point (for instance, titanium is over 100 degrees above iron), so it stands to reason even a Terminator wouldn't be immediately melted by exposure to molten steel but would need to remain submerged for some time before it ceased functioning. It is not a SuperPrototype made out of some superior material to survive what it did - any T-800 was capable of enduring that kind of punishment. And ironically it brings back comes down to a point mentioned above, in that the filmmakers tried and succeeded to make the T-800 threatening again, but the fans still found something to complain about, if only because they forgot how horrifyingly strong they are (and how it was a feat that humanity still won despite the odds) after two movies trying to introduce stronger Terminators.

* Some fans criticized the prototype T-800 in Terminator Salvation for being too durable, noting that it survived not only grenade launcher rounds but exposure to molten steel -- essentially giving it durability that exceeded what the original 1984 T-800 was capable of, despite being a prototype model made in 2018. However, if you pay careful attention to what both T-800s went through in the first two movies, the prototype's durability is not that outrageous. The T800 in the first movie was hit by a fuel explosion, due to Kyle throwing a pipe bomb in the fuel tanker's exhaust. The fuel explosion was not only far larger than the explosion made by a 40mm grenade launcher, but completely engulfed the T-800 in flames -- flames that were clearly harming it, since the Terminator stumbles to the ground and stays there for a short while before it resumes its chase for Sarah. The pipe bomb that Kyle places in the T-800's frame blows its legs and left arm off, but the machine's torso and CPU remain intact and it still has enough function left to crawl around. The T-800 in T2 is lowered into the molten steel by Sarah, but even after its head is completely submerged under the steel its CPU function does not turn off automatically. Plus given the melting point of titanium (3034 Farenheit), it stands to reason even a Terminator wouldn't be immediately melted by exposure to molten steel but would need to remain submerged for some time before it ceased functioning. The fans that handwave the T-Prototype needing to be made out of some superior material to survive what it did, are actually wrong. The horrifying truth is that you would just need a bog standard T-800 that was made with the same quality as the Terminator Kyle fought in 1984. Just a reminder that the T-800 is a common foe the Resistance fought in the 2020s, and it was capable of enduring '''that kind of punishment''' and humanity still won despite the odds.