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[[quoteright:350:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/12958_450x640.jpg]]









* ChristianityIsCatholic: Lampshaded. All the postulants are cradle Catholics to the point that when Cathleen says she was not born into the faith they splutter "But... is that even ''allowed?''" [[note]]It is, as long as she has taken instruction and is baptized, confirmed and receives Holy Communion. We don't see it but we can presume she's undergone this process as soon as she was of the proper age (over 12).[[/note]]

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* ChristianityIsCatholic: Lampshaded. All the postulants postulates are cradle Catholics to the point that when Cathleen says she was not born into the faith they splutter "But... "But...is that even ''allowed?''" [[note]]It is, as long as she has taken instruction and is baptized, confirmed and receives Holy Communion. We don't see it but we can presume she's undergone this process as soon as she was of the proper age (over 12).[[/note]]
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It's 1964. Cathleen Harris (Margaret Qualley) is a Catholic convert, the daughter of a working-class atheist single mom (Julianne Nicholson). Feeling she has been called by God to devote her life to holy service, she enters the contemplative order of the Blessed Rose. One expects an enclosed convent to be strict, but Rev. Mother Marie Saint-Claire (Creator/MelissaLeo) is running the place like a {{Cult}}. The first thing she tells the aspiring postulants is that her voice must be regarded as a stand-in for God's, and asking any questions at all is grounds for instant dismissal.

to:

It's 1964. Cathleen Harris (Margaret Qualley) (Creator/MargaretQualley) is a Catholic convert, the daughter of a working-class atheist single mom (Julianne Nicholson). Feeling she has been called by God to devote her life to holy service, she enters the contemplative order of the Blessed Rose. One expects an enclosed convent to be strict, but Rev. Mother Marie Saint-Claire (Creator/MelissaLeo) is running the place like a {{Cult}}. The first thing she tells the aspiring postulants is that her voice must be regarded as a stand-in for God's, and asking any questions at all is grounds for instant dismissal.

Changed: 181

Removed: 182

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* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at them, kicks them out for routine faults and her Chapter of Faults sessions are more like BDSM scening[[note]]in real convents one simply confesses faults, does penance and strives to improve. When Sr. Cissy accidentally broke Grand Silence, a normal Mother would simply have made the "silence" sign to her and gone on; Cissy would have spoken about her lapse in a chapter of faults session and done some routine penance. See ''Film/TheNunsStory'' for realistic examples[[/note]].

to:

* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at them, kicks them out for routine faults and her Chapter of Faults sessions are more like BDSM scening[[note]]in scening.[[note]]in real convents one simply confesses faults, does penance and strives to improve. When Sr. Cissy accidentally broke Grand Silence, a normal Mother would simply have made the "silence" sign to her and gone on; Cissy would have spoken about her lapse in a chapter of faults session and done some routine penance. See ''Film/TheNunsStory'' for realistic examples[[/note]]. examples[[/note]]



* SmallReferencePools: Catholics and others who are even slightly familiar with how convents really work -- even if they've just seen ''Film/TheNunsStory'', ''Film/{{Doubt}}'', ''In This House of Brede'' or ''Film/AgnesOfGod'' -- will be on yellow alert the instant Rev. Mother says ''she'' is the voice of God[[note]]Holy Scriptures, the Holy Rule guidelines for behavior written by the order's founder, and the bell that signals time periods for different activities, are considered the voice of God.[[/note]] and forbids questions. People whose experience of nuns is limited to the SternNun type in school are likely to think this is how it really is.
** Abuse survivors will likely take one look at the facial expressions and postures of Sister Anne and the novices and recognize that the Roses are not a normal monastery ''at all.''

to:

* SmallReferencePools: Catholics and others who are even slightly familiar with how convents really work -- even if they've just seen ''Film/TheNunsStory'', ''Film/{{Doubt}}'', ''In This House of Brede'' or ''Film/AgnesOfGod'' -- will be on yellow alert the instant Rev. Mother says ''she'' is the voice of God[[note]]Holy Scriptures, the Holy Rule guidelines for behavior written by the order's founder, and the bell that signals time periods for different activities, are considered the voice of God.[[/note]] and forbids questions. People whose experience of nuns is limited to the SternNun type in school are likely to think this is how it really is. \n** Abuse survivors will likely take one look at the facial expressions and postures of Sister Anne and the novices and recognize that the Roses are not a normal monastery ''at all.''



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* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at them, kicks them out for routine faults and her Chapter of Faults sessions are more like BDSM scening[[note]]in real convents one simply confesses faults, does penance and strives to improve. When Sr. Cissy accidentally broke Grand Silence, a normal Mother would simply have made the "silence" sign to her and gone on; Cissy would have spoken about her lapse in a chapter of faults session and done some routine penance. See ''[[Film/TheNunsStory'' for realistic examples[[/note]].

to:

* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at them, kicks them out for routine faults and her Chapter of Faults sessions are more like BDSM scening[[note]]in real convents one simply confesses faults, does penance and strives to improve. When Sr. Cissy accidentally broke Grand Silence, a normal Mother would simply have made the "silence" sign to her and gone on; Cissy would have spoken about her lapse in a chapter of faults session and done some routine penance. See ''[[Film/TheNunsStory'' ''Film/TheNunsStory'' for realistic examples[[/note]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at them, kicks them out for routine faults and her Chapter of Faults sessions are more like BDSM scening[[note]]in real convents one simply confesses faults, does penance and strives to improve. When Sr. Cissy accidentally broke Grand Silence, a normal Mother would simply have made the "silence" sign to her and gone on; Cissy would have spoken about her lapse in a chapter of faults session and done some routine penance.[[/note]].

to:

* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at them, kicks them out for routine faults and her Chapter of Faults sessions are more like BDSM scening[[note]]in real convents one simply confesses faults, does penance and strives to improve. When Sr. Cissy accidentally broke Grand Silence, a normal Mother would simply have made the "silence" sign to her and gone on; Cissy would have spoken about her lapse in a chapter of faults session and done some routine penance.[[/note]]. See ''[[Film/TheNunsStory'' for realistic examples[[/note]].
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* DesperatelyLookingForAPurposeInLife: This seems to be the main reason why Cathleen and other girls want to join the convent.
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* {{Cliffhanger}}: [[spoiler: Averted. Up to the last second, it looks as if Cathleen is going to take her final vows, [[DownerEnding binding herself to the awful convent forever]], despite earlier misgivings (we've just seen Sr. Evelyn take hers, looking absolutely terrified to the point of BringMyBrownPants, while her oblivious parents look on proudly). Viewers of ''Film/{{Doubt}}'' might expect an ambiguous ending. Or Freeze Frame (like the final seconds of ''Series/MagnumPI'') right before she speaks the words. Instead, when the priest says "What do you seek?" she reflects for a moment, then quietly says "I seek something more." If you found yourself letting out a held breath at that moment, you weren't the only one.]]

to:

* {{Cliffhanger}}: [[spoiler: Averted. Up to the last second, it looks as if Cathleen is going to take her final vows, [[DownerEnding binding herself to the awful convent forever]], despite earlier misgivings (we've just seen Sr. Evelyn take hers, looking absolutely terrified to the point of BringMyBrownPants, [[BringMyBrownPants Bring My Brown Habit]], while her oblivious parents look on proudly). Viewers of ''Film/{{Doubt}}'' might expect an ambiguous ending. Or Freeze Frame (like the final seconds of ''Series/MagnumPI'') right before she speaks the words. Instead, when the priest says "What do you seek?" she reflects for a moment, then quietly says "I seek something more." If you found yourself letting out a held breath at that moment, you weren't the only one.]]
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None


* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at them, kicks them out for routine faults and her Chapter of Faults sessions are more like BDSM scening[[note]]in real convents one simply confesses faults, does penance and strives to improve[[/note]].

to:

* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at them, kicks them out for routine faults and her Chapter of Faults sessions are more like BDSM scening[[note]]in real convents one simply confesses faults, does penance and strives to improve[[/note]].improve. When Sr. Cissy accidentally broke Grand Silence, a normal Mother would simply have made the "silence" sign to her and gone on; Cissy would have spoken about her lapse in a chapter of faults session and done some routine penance.[[/note]].



* SmallReferencePools: Catholics and others who are even slightly familiar with how convents really work -- even if they've just seen ''Film/TheNunsStory'' or ''Film/AgnesOfGod'' -- will be on yellow alert the instant Rev. Mother says ''she'' is the voice of God[[note]]Holy Scriptures, the holy Rule guidelines for behavior, and the bell that signals time periods for different activities, are considered the voice of God.[[/note]] and forbids questions. People whose experience of nuns is limited to the SternNun type in school are likely to think this is how it really is.

to:

* SmallReferencePools: Catholics and others who are even slightly familiar with how convents really work -- even if they've just seen ''Film/TheNunsStory'' ''Film/TheNunsStory'', ''Film/{{Doubt}}'', ''In This House of Brede'' or ''Film/AgnesOfGod'' -- will be on yellow alert the instant Rev. Mother says ''she'' is the voice of God[[note]]Holy Scriptures, the holy Holy Rule guidelines for behavior, behavior written by the order's founder, and the bell that signals time periods for different activities, are considered the voice of God.[[/note]] and forbids questions. People whose experience of nuns is limited to the SternNun type in school are likely to think this is how it really is.

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* {{Cliffhanger}}: [[spoiler: Averted. Up to the last second, it looks as if Cathleen is going to take her final vows, [[DownerEnding binding herself to the awful convent forever]], despite earlier misgivings. Viewers of ''Film/{{Doubt}}'' might expect an ambiguous ending. Or Freeze Frame (like the final seconds of ''Series/MagnumPI'') right before she speaks the words. Instead, when the priest says "What do you seek?" she reflects for a moment, then quietly says "I seek something more." If you found yourself letting out a held breath at that moment, you weren't the only one.]]

to:

* {{Cliffhanger}}: [[spoiler: Averted. Up to the last second, it looks as if Cathleen is going to take her final vows, [[DownerEnding binding herself to the awful convent forever]], despite earlier misgivings.misgivings (we've just seen Sr. Evelyn take hers, looking absolutely terrified to the point of BringMyBrownPants, while her oblivious parents look on proudly). Viewers of ''Film/{{Doubt}}'' might expect an ambiguous ending. Or Freeze Frame (like the final seconds of ''Series/MagnumPI'') right before she speaks the words. Instead, when the priest says "What do you seek?" she reflects for a moment, then quietly says "I seek something more." If you found yourself letting out a held breath at that moment, you weren't the only one.]]]]
* DeerInTheHeadlights: The novices all develop this look, while keeping their eyes down. By film's end some of them have a ThousandYardStare. Sister Anne, Mary Grace's assistant, also has this jumpy, terrified look when she's standing close to Mother Marie.



* ScrewThisImOuttaHere: Sister Mary Grace. The IncitingIncident is when Mother Marie goes over her head and throws out two novices who were "becoming a bit too intimate".[[note]]In a normal convent the Reverend Mother works ''with'' the novice mistress, with frequent consultations, and "particular friendships" (even if they become sexual) are not a cause for dismissal.[[/note]] Mary Grace lets Marie have it about the Vatican II coverup, and after a brief shouting match she leaves the Roses for good, but not without some parting words to her novices.

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* ScrewThisImOuttaHere: Sister Mary Grace. The IncitingIncident is when Mother Marie goes over her head and throws out two novices who were "becoming a bit too intimate".[[note]]In a normal convent the Reverend Mother works ''with'' the novice mistress, with frequent consultations, and "particular friendships" (even if they become sexual) are not a cause for dismissal.[[/note]] Mary Grace lets Marie have it about the Vatican II coverup, and after a brief shouting match she leaves the Roses for good, good -- but not without some parting words to her novices.



* SmallReferencePools: Catholics and others who are even slightly familiar with how convents really work -- even if they've just seen ''Film/TheNunsStory'' or ''Film/AgnesOfGod'' -- will be on yellow alert the instant Rev. Mother says ''she'' is the voice of God[[note]]Holy Scriptures, the holy Rule guidelines for behavior, and the bell that signals time periods for different activities, are considered the voice of God.[[/note]] and forbids questions. People whose experience of nuns is limited to the SternNun type in school are likely to think this is how it really is.

to:

** Mother Marie doesn't appoint a replacement, but takes over the training of the novices herself. This is quite likely against the Rule of the order.
* SmallReferencePools: Catholics and others who are even slightly familiar with how convents really work -- even if they've just seen ''Film/TheNunsStory'' or ''Film/AgnesOfGod'' -- will be on yellow alert the instant Rev. Mother says ''she'' is the voice of God[[note]]Holy Scriptures, the holy Rule guidelines for behavior, and the bell that signals time periods for different activities, are considered the voice of God.[[/note]] and forbids questions. People whose experience of nuns is limited to the SternNun type in school are likely to think this is how it really is.
** Abuse survivors will likely take one look at the facial expressions and postures of Sister Anne and the novices and recognize that the Roses are not a normal monastery ''at all.''

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--> '''Nora.''' You got that -- '''''MOTHER?'''''



* ScrewThisImOutaHere: Sister Mary Grace. The IncitingIncident is when Mother Marie goes over her head and throws out two novices who were "becoming a bit too intimate".[[note]]In a normal convent the Reverend Mother works ''with'' the novice mistress, with frequent consultations, and "particular friendships" (even if they become sexual) are not a cause for dismissal.[[/note]] Mary Grace lets Marie have it about the Vatican II coverup, and after a brief shouting match she leaves the Roses for good, but not without some parting words to her novices.

to:

* ScrewThisImOutaHere: ScrewThisImOuttaHere: Sister Mary Grace. The IncitingIncident is when Mother Marie goes over her head and throws out two novices who were "becoming a bit too intimate".[[note]]In a normal convent the Reverend Mother works ''with'' the novice mistress, with frequent consultations, and "particular friendships" (even if they become sexual) are not a cause for dismissal.[[/note]] Mary Grace lets Marie have it about the Vatican II coverup, and after a brief shouting match she leaves the Roses for good, but not without some parting words to her novices.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* GiveMeASign: The postulants seek signs from God that he wants them to be nuns, but Marie's brutality leaves them ''less'' certain of their own feelings, wondering if he even exists.[[note]]Lots of religious devotees, even great saints, go through [[DespairEventHorizon this]] and have written books about it, but here it's clear that Marie is harming their souls.[[/note]] Toward film's end, Cathleen speaks frankly to God: "If you want me to stay, then I'll stay. But I can't tell if that's what you want anymore. I can't hear you anymore, and I don't know... if it’s because you stopped speaking, or I somehow stopped knowing how to listen. Or maybe the voice I heard all this time, wasn't ever even yours?" Cue the crucifix on her wall crashing to the floor.

to:

* GiveMeASign: The postulants seek signs from God that he wants them to be nuns, but Marie's brutality leaves them ''less'' certain of their own feelings, wondering if he even exists.[[note]]Lots of religious devotees, even great saints, go through [[DespairEventHorizon this]] and have written books about it, but here it's clear that Marie is harming their souls.[[/note]] Toward film's end, Cathleen speaks frankly to God: "If you want me to stay, then I'll stay. But I can't tell if that's what you want anymore. I can't hear you anymore, you, and I don't know... if it’s because you stopped speaking, or I somehow stopped knowing how to listen. Or maybe the voice I heard all this time, wasn't ever even yours?" know..." Cue the crucifix on her wall crashing to the floor.

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Mother is unhinged, putting it mildly, but part of it is understandable. The Second Vatican Council called by [[ThePope Pope John XXIII]] is on, and is commanding numerous changes and reforms to common Catholic Church practices. Mother feels that the old ways are the Church's (and her) connection to God and without them the whole establishment (and her faith, her ''identity'', not just her authority) will crumble. She's also pissed that nuns weren't given a voice at the council to speak about the changes that affect them in such crucial ways, and she lets the Archbishop know about it. To protect her faith and that of her nuns, she commits an act of extreme disobedience; she actually ''doesn't tell them'' about the orders for reform and openness that have come to her from higher up. To contrast with Mother Marie is one of her senior right-hand Sisters, Mary Grace (Creator/DiannaAgron), who calls her out and opines that a more liberal approach to religion could be a good thing.

to:

Mother is unhinged, putting it mildly, but part of it is understandable. The Second Vatican Council called by [[ThePope Pope John XXIII]] is on, and is commanding numerous changes and reforms to common Catholic Church practices. Mother feels that the old ways are the Church's (and her) connection to God and without them the whole establishment (and her faith, her ''identity'', not just her authority) will crumble. She's also pissed that nuns weren't given a voice at the council to speak about the changes that affect them in such crucial ways, and she lets the Archbishop know about it. To protect her faith and that of her nuns, she commits an act of extreme disobedience; she actually ''doesn't tell them'' about the orders for reform and openness that have come to her from higher up. To contrast with Mother Marie is one of her senior right-hand Sisters, novice mistress Mary Grace (Creator/DiannaAgron), who calls her out and opines that a more liberal approach to religion could be a good thing.



* ADateWithRosiePalms: One of the postulants, Sr. Mary Grace, masturbates, obviously because her hormones won't shut up. She is anguished and miserable, not enjoying it.

to:

* ADateWithRosiePalms: One of the postulants, Sr. Sister Mary Grace, Grace masturbates, obviously because her hormones won't shut up. She but she is anguished and miserable, not enjoying it.it. She's "in a lot more secret pain and confusion than even she herself realizes." Later on, Cathleen masturbates in her sleep. She's so guilty about it she stops eating and requests to take the discipline (although she names other faults, not this, when she speaks to Mother Marie.)


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* ScrewThisImOutaHere: Sister Mary Grace. The IncitingIncident is when Mother Marie goes over her head and throws out two novices who were "becoming a bit too intimate".[[note]]In a normal convent the Reverend Mother works ''with'' the novice mistress, with frequent consultations, and "particular friendships" (even if they become sexual) are not a cause for dismissal.[[/note]] Mary Grace lets Marie have it about the Vatican II coverup, and after a brief shouting match she leaves the Roses for good, but not without some parting words to her novices.
-->'''Mary Grace.''' I want each and every one of you to know that I love you with everything in my heart.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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Mother is unhinged, putting it mildly, but part of it is understandable. The Second Vatican Council called by [[ThePope Pope John XXIII]] is on, and is commanding numerous changes and reforms to common Catholic Church practices. Mother feels that the old ways are the Church's (and her) connection to God and without them the whole establishment (and her faith, her ''identity'', not just her authority) will crumble. She's also pissed that nuns weren't given a voice at the council to speak about the changes that affect them in such crucial ways, and she lets the Archbishop know about it. To protect her faith and that of her nuns, she commits an act of extreme disobedience; she actually ''doesn't tell them'' about the orders for reform and openness that have come to her from higher up.

to:

Mother is unhinged, putting it mildly, but part of it is understandable. The Second Vatican Council called by [[ThePope Pope John XXIII]] is on, and is commanding numerous changes and reforms to common Catholic Church practices. Mother feels that the old ways are the Church's (and her) connection to God and without them the whole establishment (and her faith, her ''identity'', not just her authority) will crumble. She's also pissed that nuns weren't given a voice at the council to speak about the changes that affect them in such crucial ways, and she lets the Archbishop know about it. To protect her faith and that of her nuns, she commits an act of extreme disobedience; she actually ''doesn't tell them'' about the orders for reform and openness that have come to her from higher up.
up. To contrast with Mother Marie is one of her senior right-hand Sisters, Mary Grace (Creator/DiannaAgron), who calls her out and opines that a more liberal approach to religion could be a good thing.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


--> There’s a new era coming, sisters. Oh yes, a new era and a new wind is about to start blowing in here, you hear me? ''Listen to me!'' Because there will come a time very soon, ''very soon, sisters,'' when all your cathedrals will suddenly come crumbling to the ground -- and these trappings and clothing, too, will go falling away to the ground. And it’ll be just us, sisters. Just us and Him. All of us, once again, naked before God!

Added: 49

Changed: 23

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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It's 1964. Cathleen Harris (Margaret Qualley) is a Catholic convert, the daughter of a working-class atheist single mom. Feeling she has been called by God to devote her life to holy service, she enters the contemplative order of the Blessed Rose. One expects an enclosed convent to be strict, but Rev. Mother Marie Saint-Claire (Creator/MelissaLeo) is running the place like a {{Cult}}. The first thing she tells the aspiring postulants is that her voice must be regarded as a stand-in for God's, and asking any questions at all is grounds for instant dismissal.

to:

It's 1964. Cathleen Harris (Margaret Qualley) is a Catholic convert, the daughter of a working-class atheist single mom.mom (Julianne Nicholson). Feeling she has been called by God to devote her life to holy service, she enters the contemplative order of the Blessed Rose. One expects an enclosed convent to be strict, but Rev. Mother Marie Saint-Claire (Creator/MelissaLeo) is running the place like a {{Cult}}. The first thing she tells the aspiring postulants is that her voice must be regarded as a stand-in for God's, and asking any questions at all is grounds for instant dismissal.



--> '''Nora.''' You got that -- '''''MOTHER?'''''



* StayInTheKitchen: The Archbishop's attitude is implied to be that of the whole Church. When Mother Marie says it was a "slap in the face" for nuns not to have any say in the Vatican II changes, he responds with amused patronization: "You really expected them to have a voice, the sisters?"[[note]]Leo Cardinao Suenens (Belgian)'s reaction to the lack of women at the Council was actually very similar to Mother's, famously saying "Why are we even discussing the reality of the Church when half of the Church is not even represented here?" 23 women were appointed as "auditors" thereafter, ten of them nuns. They attended meetings, read and commented on the documents proposing changes, but had no official say in what happened.[[/note]]

to:

* StayInTheKitchen: The Archbishop's attitude is implied to be that of the whole Church. When Mother Marie says it was a "slap in the face" for nuns not to have any say in the Vatican II changes, he responds with amused patronization: "You really expected them to have a voice, the sisters?"[[note]]Leo Cardinao Cardinal Suenens (Belgian)'s reaction to the lack of women at the Council was actually very similar to Mother's, famously saying "Why are we even discussing the reality of the Church when half of the Church is not even represented here?" 23 women were appointed as "auditors" thereafter, ten of them nuns. They attended meetings, read and commented on the documents proposing changes, but had no official say in what happened.[[/note]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

* StayInTheKitchen: The Archbishop's attitude is implied to be that of the whole Church. When Mother Marie says it was a "slap in the face" for nuns not to have any say in the Vatican II changes, he responds with amused patronization: "You really expected them to have a voice, the sisters?"[[note]]Leo Cardinao Suenens (Belgian)'s reaction to the lack of women at the Council was actually very similar to Mother's, famously saying "Why are we even discussing the reality of the Church when half of the Church is not even represented here?" 23 women were appointed as "auditors" thereafter, ten of them nuns. They attended meetings, read and commented on the documents proposing changes, but had no official say in what happened.[[/note]]

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* GiveMeASign: The postulants seek signs from God that he wants them to be nuns, but Marie's brutality leaves them ''less'' certain of their own feelings, wondering if he even exists.[[note]]Lots of religious devotees, even great saints, go through [[DespairEventHorizon this]] and have written books about it, but here it's clear that Marie is harming their souls.[[/note]] Toward film's end, Cathleen speaks frankly to God: "If you want me to stay, then I'll stay. But I can't tell if that's what you want anymore. I can't hear you anymore, and I don't know... if it’s because you stopped speaking, or I somehow stopped knowing how to listen. Or maybe the voice I heard all
this time, wasn't ever even yours?" Cue the crucifix on her wall crashing to the floor.

to:

* GiveMeASign: The postulants seek signs from God that he wants them to be nuns, but Marie's brutality leaves them ''less'' certain of their own feelings, wondering if he even exists.[[note]]Lots of religious devotees, even great saints, go through [[DespairEventHorizon this]] and have written books about it, but here it's clear that Marie is harming their souls.[[/note]] Toward film's end, Cathleen speaks frankly to God: "If you want me to stay, then I'll stay. But I can't tell if that's what you want anymore. I can't hear you anymore, and I don't know... if it’s because you stopped speaking, or I somehow stopped knowing how to listen. Or maybe the voice I heard all
all this time, wasn't ever even yours?" Cue the crucifix on her wall crashing to the floor.

Added: 951

Changed: 952

Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
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* {{Cliffhanger}}: [[spoiler: Averted. Up to the last second, it looks as if Cathleen is going to take her final vows, [[DownerEnding binding herself to the awful convent forever]], despite earlier misgivings. Viewers of ''Film/{{Doubt}}'' might expect an ambiguous ending. Or Freeze Frame (like the final seconds of ''Series/MagnumPI'') right before she speaks the words. Instead, when the priest says "What do you seek?" she reflects for a moment, then quietly says "I seek something more."]]

to:

* {{Cliffhanger}}: [[spoiler: Averted. Up to the last second, it looks as if Cathleen is going to take her final vows, [[DownerEnding binding herself to the awful convent forever]], despite earlier misgivings. Viewers of ''Film/{{Doubt}}'' might expect an ambiguous ending. Or Freeze Frame (like the final seconds of ''Series/MagnumPI'') right before she speaks the words. Instead, when the priest says "What do you seek?" she reflects for a moment, then quietly says "I seek something more."]]" If you found yourself letting out a held breath at that moment, you weren't the only one.]]



* GiveMeASign: The postulants seek signs from God that he wants them to be nuns, but Marie's brutality leaves them ''less'' certain of their own feelings, wondering if he even exists.[[note]]Lots of religious devotees, even great saints, go through [[DespairEventHorizon this]] and have written books about it, but here it's clear that Marie is harming their souls.[[/note]] Toward film's end, Cathleen speaks frankly to God, saying "If you want me to stay, then I'll stay. But I can't tell if that's what you want anymore. I can't hear you, and I don't know." Cue the crucifix on her wall crashing to the floor.

to:

--> There’s a new era coming, sisters. Oh yes, a new era and a new wind is about to start blowing in here, you hear me? ''Listen to me!'' Because there will come a time very soon, ''very soon, sisters,'' when all your cathedrals will suddenly come crumbling to the ground -- and these trappings and clothing, too, will go falling away to the ground. And it’ll be just us, sisters. Just us and Him. All of us, once again, naked before God!
* GiveMeASign: The postulants seek signs from God that he wants them to be nuns, but Marie's brutality leaves them ''less'' certain of their own feelings, wondering if he even exists.[[note]]Lots of religious devotees, even great saints, go through [[DespairEventHorizon this]] and have written books about it, but here it's clear that Marie is harming their souls.[[/note]] Toward film's end, Cathleen speaks frankly to God, saying God: "If you want me to stay, then I'll stay. But I can't tell if that's what you want anymore. I can't hear you, you anymore, and I don't know." know... if it’s because you stopped speaking, or I somehow stopped knowing how to listen. Or maybe the voice I heard all
this time, wasn't ever even yours?"
Cue the crucifix on her wall crashing to the floor.



* TakingTheVeil: What the film is about, down to the technical details involved.

to:

* TakingTheVeil: What the film is about, down to the technical details involved.involved.

----
''In the years that followed Vatican II, the Church witnessed a mass exodus of nuns on a scale it had never seen before. 90,000 nuns renounced their vocations and left their convents.''

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* {{Cliffhanger}}: [[spoiler: Averted. Up to the last second, it looks as if Cathleen is going to take her final vows, [[DownerEnding binding herself to the awful convent forever]], despite earlier misgivings. Viewers of ''Film/{{Doubt}}'' might expect an ambiguous ending. Or Freeze Frame (like the final seconds of ''Series/MagnumPI'') right before she speaks the words. Instead, when the priest says "What do you seek?" she reflects for a moment, then quietly says "I seek something more."]]



* NoEnding: [[spoiler: Averted. Up to the last second, it looks as if Cathleen is going to take her final vows, [[DownerEnding binding herself to the awful convent forever]], despite earlier misgivings. Viewers of ''Film/{{Doubt}}'' might expect a FreezeFrame right before she speaks the words. Instead, when the priest says "What do you seek?" she reflects for a moment, then quietly says "I seek something more."]]
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Added DiffLines:

* GiveMeASign: The postulants seek signs from God that he wants them to be nuns, but Marie's brutality leaves them ''less'' certain of their own feelings, wondering if he even exists.[[note]]Lots of religious devotees, even great saints, go through [[DespairEventHorizon this]] and have written books about it, but here it's clear that Marie is harming their souls.[[/note]] Toward film's end, Cathleen speaks frankly to God, saying "If you want me to stay, then I'll stay. But I can't tell if that's what you want anymore. I can't hear you, and I don't know." Cue the crucifix on her wall crashing to the floor.


Added DiffLines:

* NoEnding: [[spoiler: Averted. Up to the last second, it looks as if Cathleen is going to take her final vows, [[DownerEnding binding herself to the awful convent forever]], despite earlier misgivings. Viewers of ''Film/{{Doubt}}'' might expect a FreezeFrame right before she speaks the words. Instead, when the priest says "What do you seek?" she reflects for a moment, then quietly says "I seek something more."]]

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* ADateWithRosiePalms: One of the postulants masturbates, obviously because her hormones won't shut up. She is anguished and miserable, not enjoying it.

to:

* ADateWithRosiePalms: One of the postulants postulants, Sr. Mary Grace, masturbates, obviously because her hormones won't shut up. She is anguished and miserable, not enjoying it.



* MamaBear: Cathleen's mother Nora. She mocks Cathleen's choice at first, saying she knows nothing of love or religion. Over the years she comes to admire Cathleen's determination, but realizing she's starving herself (not fasting as part of a ritual -- she explains later she's starved for human companionship) Nora comes roaring into Mother Marie's office and lets loose with a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech complete with a PrecisionFStrike that probably got applause in theaters. Julianne Nicholson's performance is breathtaking.
* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at Sr. Cissy, makes her crawl on hands and knees through the cloister walk, then kicks her out, for talking during Grand Silence. (At one point she calls her "Jenny", giving away what's really going on in her head.) Two other postulants are kicked out for friendship "bordering on inappropriate". [[note]]These are routine faults and in real convents one simply confesses, does penance and strives to improve.[[/note]]

to:

* FullFrontalAssault: Nothing violent happens, but when the older nun enters the refectory wearing nothing but her coif and shoes, proclaiming that change is coming -- she's heard rumors about Vatican II -- it has the force of an attack. The postulants can't stop laughing nervously, while the elder nuns are horrified.
* MamaBear: Cathleen's mother Nora. She mocks Cathleen's choice at first, saying she knows nothing of love or religion. Over the years she comes to admire Cathleen's determination, but realizing she's starving herself (not fasting as part of a ritual or penance -- she explains later she's starved for human companionship) comfort) Nora comes roaring into Mother Marie's office and lets loose with a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech complete with a PrecisionFStrike that probably got applause in theaters. Julianne Nicholson's performance is breathtaking.
* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at Sr. Cissy, makes her crawl on hands and knees through the cloister walk, then them, kicks her out, for talking during Grand Silence. (At one point she calls her "Jenny", giving away what's really going on in her head.) Two other postulants are kicked them out for friendship "bordering on inappropriate". [[note]]These are routine faults and in her Chapter of Faults sessions are more like BDSM scening[[note]]in real convents one simply confesses, confesses faults, does penance and strives to improve.[[/note]] improve[[/note]].


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* SmallReferencePools: Catholics and others who are even slightly familiar with how convents really work -- even if they've just seen ''Film/TheNunsStory'' or ''Film/AgnesOfGod'' -- will be on yellow alert the instant Rev. Mother says ''she'' is the voice of God[[note]]Holy Scriptures, the holy Rule guidelines for behavior, and the bell that signals time periods for different activities, are considered the voice of God.[[/note]] and forbids questions. People whose experience of nuns is limited to the SternNun type in school are likely to think this is how it really is.
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Added DiffLines:

* MamaBear: Cathleen's mother Nora. She mocks Cathleen's choice at first, saying she knows nothing of love or religion. Over the years she comes to admire Cathleen's determination, but realizing she's starving herself (not fasting as part of a ritual -- she explains later she's starved for human companionship) Nora comes roaring into Mother Marie's office and lets loose with a TheReasonYouSuckSpeech complete with a PrecisionFStrike that probably got applause in theaters. Julianne Nicholson's performance is breathtaking.

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Mother is unhinged, putting it mildly, but part of it is understandable. The Second Vatican Council called by [[ThePope Pope John XXIII]] is on, and is commanding numerous changes and reforms to common Catholic Church practices. Mother feels that the old ways are the Church's (and her) connection to God and without them the whole establishment (and her faith, not just her authority) will crumble. She's also pissed that nuns weren't given a voice at the council to speak about the changes that affect them in such crucial ways. To protect her faith and that of her nuns, she commits an act of extreme disobedience; she actually ''doesn't tell them'' about the orders for reform and openness that have come to her from higher up.

Meanwhile, the postulants and novices go through formation, learning the routines and testing whether their hearts and minds can be molded into the Holy Rule of the order and finding out that dedication to God is no easy life, particularly when your Reverend Mother is wound up tighter than a harp string.

to:

Mother is unhinged, putting it mildly, but part of it is understandable. The Second Vatican Council called by [[ThePope Pope John XXIII]] is on, and is commanding numerous changes and reforms to common Catholic Church practices. Mother feels that the old ways are the Church's (and her) connection to God and without them the whole establishment (and her faith, her ''identity'', not just her authority) will crumble. She's also pissed that nuns weren't given a voice at the council to speak about the changes that affect them in such crucial ways.ways, and she lets the Archbishop know about it. To protect her faith and that of her nuns, she commits an act of extreme disobedience; she actually ''doesn't tell them'' about the orders for reform and openness that have come to her from higher up.

Meanwhile, the postulants and novices go through formation, learning the routines and routines, testing whether their hearts and minds can be molded into the Holy Rule of the order and finding out that dedication to God is no easy life, particularly when your Reverend Mother is wound up tighter than a harp string.



* ADateWithRosiePalms: One of the postulants masturbates, obviously because her hormones won't shut up. She is anguished and miserable, not enjoying it.



* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at Sr. Cissy, then kicks her out, for talking during Grand Silence. (At one point she calls her "Jenny", giving away what's really going on in her head.) Two other postulants are kicked out for friendship "bordering on inappropriate". [[note]]These are routine faults and in real convents one simply confesses, does penance and strives to improve.[[/note]]

to:

* ChristianityIsCatholic: Lampshaded. All the postulants are cradle Catholics to the point that when Cathleen says she was not born into the faith they splutter "But... is that even ''allowed?''" [[note]]It is, as long as she has taken instruction and is baptized, confirmed and receives Holy Communion. We don't see it but we can presume she's undergone this process as soon as she was of the proper age (over 12).[[/note]]
* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at Sr. Cissy, makes her crawl on hands and knees through the cloister walk, then kicks her out, for talking during Grand Silence. (At one point she calls her "Jenny", giving away what's really going on in her head.) Two other postulants are kicked out for friendship "bordering on inappropriate". [[note]]These are routine faults and in real convents one simply confesses, does penance and strives to improve.[[/note]]



* SternNuns: There are several besides Mother Marie; also several kindly ones who remind you just by existing of what you came there for.

to:

* SternNuns: SternNun: There are several besides Mother Marie; also several kindly ones who remind you the girls just by existing of what you they came there for.

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* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at Sr. Cissy, then kicks her out, for talking during Grand Silence. (At one point she calls her "Jenny", giving away what's really going on in her head.) Two other postulants are kicked out for friendship "bordering on inappropriate". [[note]]These are routine faults and in real convents one simply confesses, does penance and strives to improve.[[/note]]

to:

\n* ATasteOfTheLash: The Roses use the old-fashioned "discipline", a seven-stranded cord with hard knots, on themselves. Cathleen is shown using it properly, flinging it over her shoulders to cause pain but not injury.
* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at Sr. Cissy, then kicks her out, for talking during Grand Silence. (At one point she calls her "Jenny", giving away what's really going on in her head.) Two other postulants are kicked out for friendship "bordering on inappropriate". [[note]]These are routine faults and in real convents one simply confesses, does penance and strives to improve.[[/note]][[/note]]
* NunsNRosaries: Used as a major plot point. The Roses wear a very traditional "penguin" habit and Mother wants to keep them in it long past the time that Vatican II has said they can dispense with it.
* SternNuns: There are several besides Mother Marie; also several kindly ones who remind you just by existing of what you came there for.
* TakingTheVeil: What the film is about, down to the technical details involved.
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It's 1964. Cathleen (Margaret Qualley) is a Catholic convert, the daughter of a working-class atheist single mom. Feeling she has been called by God to devote her life to holy service, she enters the contemplative order of the Blessed Rose. One expects an enclosed convent to be strict, but Rev. Mother Marie Saint-Claire (Creator/MelissaLeo) is running the place like a {{Cult}}. The first thing she tells the aspiring postulants is that her voice must be regarded as a stand-in for God's, and asking any questions at all is grounds for instant dismissal.

to:

It's 1964. Cathleen Harris (Margaret Qualley) is a Catholic convert, the daughter of a working-class atheist single mom. Feeling she has been called by God to devote her life to holy service, she enters the contemplative order of the Blessed Rose. One expects an enclosed convent to be strict, but Rev. Mother Marie Saint-Claire (Creator/MelissaLeo) is running the place like a {{Cult}}. The first thing she tells the aspiring postulants is that her voice must be regarded as a stand-in for God's, and asking any questions at all is grounds for instant dismissal.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


Mother is unhinged, putting it mildly, but part of it is understandable. The Second Vatican Council called by [[ThePope Pope John XXIII]] is on, and is issuing numerous changes and reforms to common Catholic Church practices. Mother feels that the old ways are the Church's (and her) connection to God and without them the whole establishment (and her faith, not just her authority) will crumble. To protect her faith and that of her nuns, she commits an act of extreme disobedience; she actually ''doesn't tell them'' about the orders for reform and openness that have come to her from the Archbishop.

to:

Mother is unhinged, putting it mildly, but part of it is understandable. The Second Vatican Council called by [[ThePope Pope John XXIII]] is on, and is issuing commanding numerous changes and reforms to common Catholic Church practices. Mother feels that the old ways are the Church's (and her) connection to God and without them the whole establishment (and her faith, not just her authority) will crumble. She's also pissed that nuns weren't given a voice at the council to speak about the changes that affect them in such crucial ways. To protect her faith and that of her nuns, she commits an act of extreme disobedience; she actually ''doesn't tell them'' about the orders for reform and openness that have come to her from the Archbishop.
higher up.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at Sr. Cissy for talking during Grand Silence. She loses it completely and calls her "Jenny", giving away what's really going on in her head. After making her crawl through the cloister walk, she kicks her out.[[note]]In reality, Cissy would be quietly reminded, later confess her slip during Chapter and do some routine penance.[[/note]]

to:

* NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at Sr. Cissy Cissy, then kicks her out, for talking during Grand Silence. She loses it completely and (At one point she calls her "Jenny", giving away what's really going on in her head. After making her crawl through the cloister walk, she kicks her out.[[note]]In reality, Cissy would be quietly reminded, later confess her slip during Chapter and do some head.) Two other postulants are kicked out for friendship "bordering on inappropriate". [[note]]These are routine penance.faults and in real convents one simply confesses, does penance and strives to improve.[[/note]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None


* NunsAreScary: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at Sr. Cissy for talking during Grand Silence. At one moment she loses it completely and calls her "Jenny", giving away what's really going on in her head. After making her crawl through the cloister walk, she kicks her out.[[note]]In reality, Cissy would be quietly reminded, later confess her slip during Chapter and do some routine penance.[[/note]]

to:

* NunsAreScary: NunTooHoly bordering on NunsAreSpooky: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at Sr. Cissy for talking during Grand Silence. At one moment she She loses it completely and calls her "Jenny", giving away what's really going on in her head. After making her crawl through the cloister walk, she kicks her out.[[note]]In reality, Cissy would be quietly reminded, later confess her slip during Chapter and do some routine penance.[[/note]]

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Turns out there's a good reason Mother is slightly unhinged. The Second Vatican Council called by [[ThePope Pope John XXIII]] is on, and is issuing numerous changes and reforms to common Catholic Church practices. Mother feels that the old ways are the Church's (and her) connection to God and without them the whole establishment (and her faith) will crumble. To protect her faith and that of her nuns, she commits an act of extreme disobedience; she actually ''doesn't tell them'' about the orders for reform and openness that have come to her from the Archbishop.

Meanwhile, the postulants and novices go through formation, learning the routines and testing whether their hearts and minds can be molded into the Holy Rule of the order and finding out that dedication to God is no easy life.

to:

Turns out there's a good reason Mother is slightly unhinged.unhinged, putting it mildly, but part of it is understandable. The Second Vatican Council called by [[ThePope Pope John XXIII]] is on, and is issuing numerous changes and reforms to common Catholic Church practices. Mother feels that the old ways are the Church's (and her) connection to God and without them the whole establishment (and her faith) faith, not just her authority) will crumble. To protect her faith and that of her nuns, she commits an act of extreme disobedience; she actually ''doesn't tell them'' about the orders for reform and openness that have come to her from the Archbishop.

Meanwhile, the postulants and novices go through formation, learning the routines and testing whether their hearts and minds can be molded into the Holy Rule of the order and finding out that dedication to God is no easy life.life, particularly when your Reverend Mother is wound up tighter than a harp string.

----
!!Examples

* NunsAreScary: Mother Marie is downright cruel to her charges. She screams at Sr. Cissy for talking during Grand Silence. At one moment she loses it completely and calls her "Jenny", giving away what's really going on in her head. After making her crawl through the cloister walk, she kicks her out.[[note]]In reality, Cissy would be quietly reminded, later confess her slip during Chapter and do some routine penance.[[/note]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None

Added DiffLines:

''So many people settle for a love that doesn't really ask anything of them. That they don't have to make any sacrifices for. I don't want that. I want an ideal love that I have to give everything to.''

It's 1964. Cathleen (Margaret Qualley) is a Catholic convert, the daughter of a working-class atheist single mom. Feeling she has been called by God to devote her life to holy service, she enters the contemplative order of the Blessed Rose. One expects an enclosed convent to be strict, but Rev. Mother Marie Saint-Claire (Creator/MelissaLeo) is running the place like a {{Cult}}. The first thing she tells the aspiring postulants is that her voice must be regarded as a stand-in for God's, and asking any questions at all is grounds for instant dismissal.

Turns out there's a good reason Mother is slightly unhinged. The Second Vatican Council called by [[ThePope Pope John XXIII]] is on, and is issuing numerous changes and reforms to common Catholic Church practices. Mother feels that the old ways are the Church's (and her) connection to God and without them the whole establishment (and her faith) will crumble. To protect her faith and that of her nuns, she commits an act of extreme disobedience; she actually ''doesn't tell them'' about the orders for reform and openness that have come to her from the Archbishop.

Meanwhile, the postulants and novices go through formation, learning the routines and testing whether their hearts and minds can be molded into the Holy Rule of the order and finding out that dedication to God is no easy life.

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