Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Deleted line(s) 17 (click to see context) :
* AluminumChristmasTrees: Some viewers may not know that there was a brief interregnum between the final end of active American military involvement in Vietnam (January 1973), and North Vietnamese defeat of the South and unification of the country (April 1975) in which it was possible to imagine that America "won" the war by preserving South Vietnamese independence. This film was made right in the middle of that two year "decent interval." So that's why George Coker talks about how he's happy that America won the war.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
-> "We weren't on the wrong side. We ''were'' the wrong side."
to:
-> "We ''"We weren't on the wrong side. We ''were'' '''were''' the wrong side.""''
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Deleted line(s) 27 (click to see context) :
* ObligatoryWarCrimeScene: Bombing civilians, setting fire to villages, spraying napalm that poisons children, this film has it all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Ho Chi Minh was not "forced into the arms" of the communists; he was a committed communist ideologue who downplayed it when it suited him. I'd also like to add that I don't care for the underlying thesis of this entry in general, as it supposes that to be Vietnamese was to be an ideological communist, ignoring the many Vietnamese who were anti-communist in their own right, the atrocious actions of Vietnamese communists to seize and maintain power, that the Vietnamese communists were backed by and entirely dependant on foreign powers to fight the war, and that once the communists took over Vietnam they invaded Cambodia, overthrew their government, and put communists into power.
Changed line(s) 22 (click to see context) from:
* FightingForAHomeland: Why some of the more clear-eyed American observers think the Vietnamese are going to win; they have something to fight for while the Americans don't. Also leads to WhatMightHaveBeen (see below) when considering how history might have played out if the USA had backed Ho in 1945 instead of backing the French and pushing Ho into the arms of the communists. Also leads to some uncomfortable parallels between the North Vietnamese and the Americans of UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution, both fighting for independence from a foreign occupier from overseas.
to:
* FightingForAHomeland: Why some of the more clear-eyed American observers think the Vietnamese are going to win; they have something to fight for while the Americans don't. Also leads to WhatMightHaveBeen (see below) when considering how history might have played out if the USA had backed Ho in 1945 instead of backing the French and pushing Ho into the arms of the communists. Also leads to some uncomfortable parallels between the North Vietnamese and the Americans of UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution, both fighting for independence from a foreign occupier from overseas.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 25 (click to see context) from:
* MyCountryTisOfTheeThatISting: One of the most strident pieces of anti-American Flavor 2 cinema ever made. If this film and ''Film/YankeeDoodleDandy'' were ever showed as a double feature, the matter-antimatter reaction might destroy the world. Peter Davis even includes clips from a high school football game that have nothing to do with Vietnam, but do serve to portray Americans as loud and stupid and violent.
to:
* MyCountryTisOfTheeThatISting: One of the most strident pieces of anti-American Flavor 2 cinema ever made. If this film and ''Film/YankeeDoodleDandy'' were ever showed as a double feature, the matter-antimatter reaction might destroy the world. Peter Davis even includes clips from a high school football game that have nothing to do with Vietnam, but do serve to portray Americans as loud and stupid and violent.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 38 (click to see context) from:
* YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters: And the film talks about how the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong see themselves as freedom fighters. Captain Randy Floyd, an American pilot, says that when a people believe they are fighting for their freedom that changes in tactics and application of technology aren't going to defeat them. The film makes an obvious comparison by showing reenactors in Revolutionary War gear at a 4th of July celebration, suggesting the North Vietnamese are like the Patriots of the Revolution and the United States is like the British Empire.
to:
* YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters: And the film talks about how the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong see themselves as freedom fighters. Captain Randy Floyd, an American pilot, says that when a people believe they are fighting for their freedom that changes in tactics and application of technology aren't going to defeat them. The film makes an obvious comparison by showing reenactors in Revolutionary War gear at a 4th of July celebration, suggesting the North Vietnamese are like the Patriots of the Revolution and the United States is like the British Empire.Empire.
----
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 22 (click to see context) :
* {{Eagleland}}: One of the most strident pieces of anti-American Flavor 2 cinema ever made. If this film and ''Film/YankeeDoodleDandy'' were ever showed as a double feature, the matter-antimatter reaction might destroy the world. Peter Davis even includes clips from a high school football game that have nothing to do with Vietnam, but do serve to portray Americans as loud and stupid and violent.
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
* TheNounAndTheNoun
to:
* TheNounAndTheNounMyCountryTisOfTheeThatISting: One of the most strident pieces of anti-American Flavor 2 cinema ever made. If this film and ''Film/YankeeDoodleDandy'' were ever showed as a double feature, the matter-antimatter reaction might destroy the world. Peter Davis even includes clips from a high school football game that have nothing to do with Vietnam, but do serve to portray Americans as loud and stupid and violent.
* TheNounAndTheNoun: ''Hearts and Minds''
* TheNounAndTheNoun: ''Hearts and Minds''
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Infant Immortality has been renamed and split per Trope Repair Shop.
* DeathOfAChild: There's even a scene where a man is making tiny child coffins.
Deleted line(s) 23 (click to see context) :
* InfantImmortality: Averted over and over and over again. Like in the scene where a man is making tiny child coffins.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
See also ''Film/LastDaysInVietnam'', a documentary about the fall of Saigon in 1975, and ''Series/TheVietnamWar'' by Creator/KenBurns, a documentary miniseries telling the whole history of the conflict going back to the French colonial era.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* FightingForAHomeland: Why some of the more clear-eyed American observers think the Vietnamese are going to win; they have something to fight for while the Americans don't. Also leads to WhatMightHaveBeen (see below) when considering how history might have played out if the USA had backed Ho in 1945 instead of backing the French and pushing Ho into the arms of the communists. Also leads to some uncomfortable parallels between the North Vietnamese and the Americans of UsefulNotes/TheAmericanRevolution, both fighting for independence from a foreign occupier from overseas.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
[[quoteright:350:http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/img_0594.JPG]]
to:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
* DraftDodger: One young man who has been hiding out from the draft decides, against his mother's advice, to turn himself in and make a public statement.
to:
* DraftDodger: DraftDodging: One young man who has been hiding out from the draft decides, against his mother's advice, to turn himself in and make a public statement.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* DraftDodger: One young man who has been hiding out from the draft decides, against his mother's advice, to turn himself in and make a public statement.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
* IronicJuxtaposition: Used over and over again. One dramatic moment shows a burial in South Vietnam, with a distraught mother trying to climb into the grave with her son's coffin, followed by General Westmoreland making a racist comment about how "the Oriental" doesn't value human life. Another moment shows UsefulNotes/HarryTruman talking about "our vision of progress" in Vietnam, followed by the French blasting the hell out of a village.
to:
* IronicJuxtaposition: Used over and over again.many times. One dramatic moment shows a burial in South Vietnam, with a distraught mother trying to climb into the grave with her son's coffin, followed by General Westmoreland making a racist comment about how "the Oriental" doesn't value human life. Another moment shows UsefulNotes/HarryTruman talking about "our vision of progress" in Vietnam, followed by the French blasting the hell out of a village.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
[[quoteright:350:http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/img_0594.JPG]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 24 (click to see context) from:
* StockFootage: Quite a bit as one might expect of any documentary. Among the newsreel bits that make up the film are Nguyen Ngoc Loan's execution of a Viet Cong prisoner, made famous by [[http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2014/09/17/blogs/20140917-lens-adams-slide-JXW5/20140917-lens-adams-slide-JXW5-superJumbo.jpg a still photo]], and a clip of a naked little girl named Kim Phuc running down a road and screaming after being burned in a napalm attack, as made famous in another still photo.
to:
* StockFootage: Quite a bit as one might expect of any documentary. Among the newsreel bits that make up the film are Nguyen Ngoc Loan's execution of a Viet Cong prisoner, made famous by [[http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2014/09/17/blogs/20140917-lens-adams-slide-JXW5/20140917-lens-adams-slide-JXW5-superJumbo.jpg a still photo]], and a clip of a naked little girl named Kim Phuc running down a road and screaming after being burned in a napalm attack, as made famous in [[https://jameswquinn.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/12-4-napalm-girl.jpg another still photo.photo]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 24 (click to see context) from:
* StockFootage: Quite a bit as one might expect of any documentary. Among the newsreel bits that make up the film are Nguyen Ngoc Loan's execution of a Viet Cong prisoner, made famous by a still photo, and a clip of a naked little girl named Kim Phuc running down a road and screaming after being burned in a napalm attack, as made famous in another still photo.
to:
* StockFootage: Quite a bit as one might expect of any documentary. Among the newsreel bits that make up the film are Nguyen Ngoc Loan's execution of a Viet Cong prisoner, made famous by [[http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2014/09/17/blogs/20140917-lens-adams-slide-JXW5/20140917-lens-adams-slide-JXW5-superJumbo.jpg a still photo, photo]], and a clip of a naked little girl named Kim Phuc running down a road and screaming after being burned in a napalm attack, as made famous in another still photo.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
* AluminumChristmasTrees: Some viewers may not know that there was a brief interregnum between the final end of active American military involvement in Vietnam (January 1973), and North Vietnamese defeat of the Sout and unification of the country (April 1975) in which it was possible to imagine that America "won" the war by preserving South Vietnamese independence. This film was made right in the middle of that two year "decent interval." So that's why George Coker talks about how he's happy that America won the war.
to:
* AluminumChristmasTrees: Some viewers may not know that there was a brief interregnum between the final end of active American military involvement in Vietnam (January 1973), and North Vietnamese defeat of the Sout South and unification of the country (April 1975) in which it was possible to imagine that America "won" the war by preserving South Vietnamese independence. This film was made right in the middle of that two year "decent interval." So that's why George Coker talks about how he's happy that America won the war.
Added DiffLines:
* ObligatoryWarCrimeScene: Bombing civilians, setting fire to villages, spraying napalm that poisons children, this film has it all.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* WarIsHell: Quite the booming business in coffins for dead children.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* WhileRomeBurns: One scene shows South Vietnamese bigwigs and government officials drinking, eating, and cracking jokes in a fancy club. One of them spots the camera and urges everyone to calm down and not make them look bad.
* YellowPeril: There's the contempt that William Westmoreland and George Coker have for the Vietnamese, and there's a selection of clips from horrifyingly racist American films like ''Film/TheMaskOfFuManchu''.
* YellowPeril: There's the contempt that William Westmoreland and George Coker have for the Vietnamese, and there's a selection of clips from horrifyingly racist American films like ''Film/TheMaskOfFuManchu''.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
* AluminumChristmasTrees: Some viewers may not know that there was a brief interregnum between the final end of active American military involvement in Vietnam (January 1973), and North Vietnamese defeat of the Sout and unification of the country (April 1975) in which it was possible to imagine that America "won" the war by preserving South Vietnamese independence. So that's why George Coker talks about how he's happy that American won the war.
to:
* AluminumChristmasTrees: Some viewers may not know that there was a brief interregnum between the final end of active American military involvement in Vietnam (January 1973), and North Vietnamese defeat of the Sout and unification of the country (April 1975) in which it was possible to imagine that America "won" the war by preserving South Vietnamese independence. This film was made right in the middle of that two year "decent interval." So that's why George Coker talks about how he's happy that America won the war.
* AnArmAndALeg: One sequence shows maimed Americanwon servicemen getting fitted for artificial limbs.
* AsianHookerStereotype: One of thewar.grosser parts of the film shows two American servicemen having sex with two prostitutes.
* AnArmAndALeg: One sequence shows maimed American
* AsianHookerStereotype: One of the
Added DiffLines:
* TimePassesMontage: Five US presidents, from Truman to Johnson, are shown in succession mouthing very similar platitudes about how things are going to turn out great in Vietnam if we just keep at it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
* AluminumChristmasTrees: Some viewers may not know that there was a brief interregnum between the final end of active American military involvement in Vietnam (January 1973), and North Vietnamese defeat of the Sout and unification of the country (April 1975) in which it was possible to imagine that America "won" the war by preserving South Vietnamese independence. So that's why George Coker talks about how he's happy that American won the war.
Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
* IronicJuxtaposition: Used over and over again. One dramatic moment shows a burial in South Vietnam, with a distraught mother trying to climb into the grave with her son's coffin, followed by General Westmoreland making a racist comment about how "the Oriental" doesn't value human life.
to:
* IronicJuxtaposition: Used over and over again. One dramatic moment shows a burial in South Vietnam, with a distraught mother trying to climb into the grave with her son's coffin, followed by General Westmoreland making a racist comment about how "the Oriental" doesn't value human life. Another moment shows UsefulNotes/HarryTruman talking about "our vision of progress" in Vietnam, followed by the French blasting the hell out of a village.
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
* WhatCouldHaveBeen: InUniverse, as Senator Fulbright talks about how things might have been so different if the United States had chosen to respond to Ho Chi Minh's overtures instead of backing the French to the hilt.
to:
* TalkingHeads: Many. William Westmoreland humiliates himself.
* TitleDrop: UsefulNotes/LyndonJohnson talks about winning "the hearts and the minds" of the Vietnamese people.
* WhatCouldHaveBeen: InUniverse, as Senator Fulbright talks about how things might have been so different if the United States had chosen to respond to Ho Chi Minh's overtures instead of backing the French to thehilt.hilt.
* YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters: And the film talks about how the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong see themselves as freedom fighters. Captain Randy Floyd, an American pilot, says that when a people believe they are fighting for their freedom that changes in tactics and application of technology aren't going to defeat them. The film makes an obvious comparison by showing reenactors in Revolutionary War gear at a 4th of July celebration, suggesting the North Vietnamese are like the Patriots of the Revolution and the United States is like the British Empire.
* TitleDrop: UsefulNotes/LyndonJohnson talks about winning "the hearts and the minds" of the Vietnamese people.
* WhatCouldHaveBeen: InUniverse, as Senator Fulbright talks about how things might have been so different if the United States had chosen to respond to Ho Chi Minh's overtures instead of backing the French to the
* YourTerroristsAreOurFreedomFighters: And the film talks about how the North Vietnamese and Viet Cong see themselves as freedom fighters. Captain Randy Floyd, an American pilot, says that when a people believe they are fighting for their freedom that changes in tactics and application of technology aren't going to defeat them. The film makes an obvious comparison by showing reenactors in Revolutionary War gear at a 4th of July celebration, suggesting the North Vietnamese are like the Patriots of the Revolution and the United States is like the British Empire.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* RedScare: The role of the Red Scare and anti-Communist hysteria in leading America into Vietnam is examined. One deeply bizarre old newsreel has some small town staging a mock Communist takeover, including the sheriff being "arrested" and a hammer-and-sickle parade down Main Street.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
-> "We weren't on the wrong side. We ''were'' the wrong side."
-->-- '''Daniel Ellsberg'''
''Hearts and Minds'' is a 1974 documentary film directed by Peter Davis.
It is a history of America's involvement in UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar. The film is a searing indictment of the United States and its presence in Vietnam, depicting the ghastly toll of pain and suffering inflicted on the Vietnamese people by the American armed forces. Documentary interviews were filmed in 1972 and 1973 just as active American military involvement was drawing to a close and before the war actually ended; the film first screened in the United States barely four months before the fall of Saigon on April 30, 1975.
Persons interviewed ranged from people of power and influence--U.S. Secretary of Defense Clark Clifford, President of South Vietnam Nguyen Khanh, General William Westmoreland, etc--as well as ordinary soldiers and civilians. Special attention is given to the suffering of Vietnamese civilians. The film does not merely question the wisdom of American foreign policy or American intervention in Indochina. It also indicts the American character, portraying a nation that is militaristic and aggressive.
----
!!Tropes:
* {{Eagleland}}: One of the most strident pieces of anti-American Flavor 2 cinema ever made. If this film and ''Film/YankeeDoodleDandy'' were ever showed as a double feature, the matter-antimatter reaction might destroy the world. Peter Davis even includes clips from a high school football game that have nothing to do with Vietnam, but do serve to portray Americans as loud and stupid and violent.
* InfantImmortality: Averted over and over and over again. Like in the scene where a man is making tiny child coffins.
* IronicJuxtaposition: Used over and over again. One dramatic moment shows a burial in South Vietnam, with a distraught mother trying to climb into the grave with her son's coffin, followed by General Westmoreland making a racist comment about how "the Oriental" doesn't value human life.
* TheKenBurnsEffect: Used sparingly, as the film is mostly live footage. One instance shows a picture of Ho Chi Minh, then zooms out from the picture as Senator Fulbright muses about how Ho wrote to the United States government in 1946, expecting support for a rebellion against colonial oppression.
* PoliticallyIncorrectVillain: Well, there's Lt. George Coker calling the Vietnamese "gooks" and talking about how the Vietnamese are "primitive" and "backward". Coker might be excused for his comments by having spent 6 1/2 years in a North Vietnamese prison camp, but the film is not interested in any suffering inflicted by the North Vietnamese on George Coker or anyone else. William Westmoreland's horrific comment about "the Oriental" not valuing life is a more straightforward example of a Politically Incorrect Villain.
* StockFootage: Quite a bit as one might expect of any documentary. Among the newsreel bits that make up the film are Nguyen Ngoc Loan's execution of a Viet Cong prisoner, made famous by a still photo, and a clip of a naked little girl named Kim Phuc running down a road and screaming after being burned in a napalm attack, as made famous in another still photo.
* WhatCouldHaveBeen: InUniverse, as Senator Fulbright talks about how things might have been so different if the United States had chosen to respond to Ho Chi Minh's overtures instead of backing the French to the hilt.
-->-- '''Daniel Ellsberg'''
''Hearts and Minds'' is a 1974 documentary film directed by Peter Davis.
It is a history of America's involvement in UsefulNotes/TheVietnamWar. The film is a searing indictment of the United States and its presence in Vietnam, depicting the ghastly toll of pain and suffering inflicted on the Vietnamese people by the American armed forces. Documentary interviews were filmed in 1972 and 1973 just as active American military involvement was drawing to a close and before the war actually ended; the film first screened in the United States barely four months before the fall of Saigon on April 30, 1975.
Persons interviewed ranged from people of power and influence--U.S. Secretary of Defense Clark Clifford, President of South Vietnam Nguyen Khanh, General William Westmoreland, etc--as well as ordinary soldiers and civilians. Special attention is given to the suffering of Vietnamese civilians. The film does not merely question the wisdom of American foreign policy or American intervention in Indochina. It also indicts the American character, portraying a nation that is militaristic and aggressive.
----
!!Tropes:
* {{Eagleland}}: One of the most strident pieces of anti-American Flavor 2 cinema ever made. If this film and ''Film/YankeeDoodleDandy'' were ever showed as a double feature, the matter-antimatter reaction might destroy the world. Peter Davis even includes clips from a high school football game that have nothing to do with Vietnam, but do serve to portray Americans as loud and stupid and violent.
* InfantImmortality: Averted over and over and over again. Like in the scene where a man is making tiny child coffins.
* IronicJuxtaposition: Used over and over again. One dramatic moment shows a burial in South Vietnam, with a distraught mother trying to climb into the grave with her son's coffin, followed by General Westmoreland making a racist comment about how "the Oriental" doesn't value human life.
* TheKenBurnsEffect: Used sparingly, as the film is mostly live footage. One instance shows a picture of Ho Chi Minh, then zooms out from the picture as Senator Fulbright muses about how Ho wrote to the United States government in 1946, expecting support for a rebellion against colonial oppression.
* PoliticallyIncorrectVillain: Well, there's Lt. George Coker calling the Vietnamese "gooks" and talking about how the Vietnamese are "primitive" and "backward". Coker might be excused for his comments by having spent 6 1/2 years in a North Vietnamese prison camp, but the film is not interested in any suffering inflicted by the North Vietnamese on George Coker or anyone else. William Westmoreland's horrific comment about "the Oriental" not valuing life is a more straightforward example of a Politically Incorrect Villain.
* StockFootage: Quite a bit as one might expect of any documentary. Among the newsreel bits that make up the film are Nguyen Ngoc Loan's execution of a Viet Cong prisoner, made famous by a still photo, and a clip of a naked little girl named Kim Phuc running down a road and screaming after being burned in a napalm attack, as made famous in another still photo.
* WhatCouldHaveBeen: InUniverse, as Senator Fulbright talks about how things might have been so different if the United States had chosen to respond to Ho Chi Minh's overtures instead of backing the French to the hilt.
