Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* Boom,Headshot: lots of
to:
* Boom,Headshot: BoomHeadshot: lots of
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Or not. See 'Reality is Unrealistic' above. Also, suicide to avoid military disgrace was a tacitly accepted part of many martial cultures. (Not that that's a justification for it).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
*** I don't know about human history, but definitely the bloodiest WWII siege.
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
* HoYay: Subverted - a viewer who knows nothing about the camaraderie in European armies (and European military culture in general) might think Vasily and Danilov have a thing for each other, but no, they're just army buddies.
to:
* HoYay: Subverted - a viewer who knows nothing about the camaraderie in European armies (and European military culture in general) might think Vasily and Danilov have a thing for each other, but no, they're just army buddies.buddies.
** Definitely subverted in that it's not just European soldiers who share such man-love. The greatest bonds are formed between men during war.
** Definitely subverted in that it's not just European soldiers who share such man-love. The greatest bonds are formed between men during war.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
** The General being given a pistol at the beginning of the film by Commissar Krushchev for failing to hold the city. The General shoots himself to avoid having to explain it to Stalin. Great scene. Gen. Andrei Yeremenko, the first General in charge of the defence, planned the defence with Krushchev himself, was relieved by a replacement he himself chose (Chuikov), posted to a different front to fight off [[MagnificentBastard Erich von Manstein]], and eventually died in ''1970'' after many years of further decorated service. As long as Red Army commanders explained their tactics and strategies to him, Stalin never punitively executed a Red Army commander, even if the strategy failed. ''Hitler,'' on the other hand...
to:
** The General being given a pistol at the beginning of the film by Commissar Krushchev for failing to hold the city. The General shoots himself to avoid having to explain it to Stalin. Great scene. Gen. Andrei Yeremenko, the first General in charge of the defence, planned the defence with Krushchev himself, was relieved by a replacement he himself chose (Chuikov), posted to a different front to fight off [[MagnificentBastard Erich von Manstein]], and eventually died in ''1970'' after many years of further decorated service. Why? His plan to deny German armoured superiority by sinking it into the carcass of the city was [[PragmaticVillainy approved by Stalin.]] As long as Red Army commanders explained their tactics and strategies to him, Stalin never punitively executed a Red Army commander, even if the strategy failed. ''Hitler,'' on the other hand...
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
** The General being given a pistol at the beginning of the film by Commissar Krushchev for failing to hold the city. Great scene. Considering that Gen. Andrei Yeremenko, the first General in charge of the defence, planned the defence with Krushchev himself, was relieved by a replacement he himself chose (Chuikov), posted to a different front to fight off [[MagnificentBastard Erich von Manstein]], and eventually died in ''1970'' after many years of further decorated service, the scene is not entirely realistic. The initial Stalingrad defence did everything it was supposed to do- buy time until Zhukov could encircle the German Sixth Army.
to:
** The General being given a pistol at the beginning of the film by Commissar Krushchev for failing to hold the city. The General shoots himself to avoid having to explain it to Stalin. Great scene. Considering that Gen. Andrei Yeremenko, the first General in charge of the defence, planned the defence with Krushchev himself, was relieved by a replacement he himself chose (Chuikov), posted to a different front to fight off [[MagnificentBastard Erich von Manstein]], and eventually died in ''1970'' after many years of further decorated service, service. As long as Red Army commanders explained their tactics and strategies to him, Stalin never punitively executed a Red Army commander, even if the scene is not entirely realistic. The initial Stalingrad defence did everything it was supposed to do- buy time until Zhukov could encircle strategy failed. ''Hitler,'' on the German Sixth Army.other hand...
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
** The General being given a pistol at the beginning of the film by Commissar Krushchev for failing to hold the city. Great scene. Considering that Gen. Andrei Yeremenko, the first General in charge of the defence, planned the defence with Krushchev himself, was relieved by a replacement he himself chose (Chuikov) posted to a different front to fight off [[MagnificentBastard Erich von Manstein]], and eventually died in ''1970'' after many years of further decorated service, the scene is not entirely realistic.
to:
** The General being given a pistol at the beginning of the film by Commissar Krushchev for failing to hold the city. Great scene. Considering that Gen. Andrei Yeremenko, the first General in charge of the defence, planned the defence with Krushchev himself, was relieved by a replacement he himself chose (Chuikov) (Chuikov), posted to a different front to fight off [[MagnificentBastard Erich von Manstein]], and eventually died in ''1970'' after many years of further decorated service, the scene is not entirely realistic.realistic. The initial Stalingrad defence did everything it was supposed to do- buy time until Zhukov could encircle the German Sixth Army.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
** The General being given a pistol at the beginning of the film by Commissar Krushchev for failing to hold the city. Great scene. Considering that Gen. Andrei Yeremenko, the first General in charge of the defence, planned the defence with Krushchev himself, was relieved by a replacement he himself chose (Chuikov) and posted to a different front to fight off [[MagnificentBastard Erich von Manstein]], and eventually died in ''1970'', the scene is not entirely realistic.
to:
** The General being given a pistol at the beginning of the film by Commissar Krushchev for failing to hold the city. Great scene. Considering that Gen. Andrei Yeremenko, the first General in charge of the defence, planned the defence with Krushchev himself, was relieved by a replacement he himself chose (Chuikov) and posted to a different front to fight off [[MagnificentBastard Erich von Manstein]], and eventually died in ''1970'', ''1970'' after many years of further decorated service, the scene is not entirely realistic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
** The General being given a pistol at the beginning of the film by Commissar Krushchev for failing to hold the city. Great scene. Considering that Gen. Andrei Yeremenko, planned the defence of the city with Kruschev himself, was relieved by a replacement he himself chose (Chuikov) and posted to a different front to fight off [[MagnificentBastard Erich von Manstein]], and eventually died in ''1970'', the scene is not entirely realistic.
to:
** The General being given a pistol at the beginning of the film by Commissar Krushchev for failing to hold the city. Great scene. Considering that Gen. Andrei Yeremenko, the first General in charge of the defence, planned the defence of the city with Kruschev Krushchev himself, was relieved by a replacement he himself chose (Chuikov) and posted to a different front to fight off [[MagnificentBastard Erich von Manstein]], and eventually died in ''1970'', the scene is not entirely realistic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** The General being given a pistol at the beginning of the film by Commissar Krushchev for failing to hold the city. Great scene. Considering that Gen. Andrei Yeremenko, planned the defence of the city with Kruschev himself, was relieved by a replacement he himself chose (Chuikov) and posted to a different front to fight off [[MagnificentBastard Erich von Manstein]], and eventually died in ''1970'', the scene is not entirely realistic.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 42,43 (click to see context) from:
* Values Dissonance: Danilov tells Sasha’s mother that Sasha defected to the Germans. Allegedly this was because Danilov could not bear to tell her the grim truth. Sasha’s mother reacts with relief and hope. This not only makes no sense from the context of what we’ve seen in the movie, but is also totally opposite from how such news would have actually been received, given the setting. We saw earlier in the movie how the commanders were suggesting to continue [[DisproportionateRetribution killing the families]] of those who failed to bring victory. For Danilov to report Sasha as a defector, it means Sasha betrayed the Motherland, and that not only disgraces Shasha’s name (and his family’s name) forever, but puts his whole family in mortal danger from the regime, and possibly also anyone they associate with (i.e. Zaytzev and Danilov). Secondly, governmental DisproportionateRetribution aside, if one considers the cultural attitude at the time, it would have only made sense for Danilov to tell her the truth: Sasha died in service to his nation. If Danilov had done that, Sasha would have been remembered as a hero. If a (Soviet) Russian mother receives news of her son’s defection, on that day, she no longer has a son (she would disown him, in addition to him being made a non-person by the government).
When this Russian troper first watched that scene, I though of Danilov doing this as ''"Wow, what a dick! That is just low."'', until reading in a synopsis that this was the character attempting to do a good thing by not telling a mother of her son’s death. Definite case of DidNotDoTheResearch on the writers' part.
When this Russian troper first watched that scene, I though of Danilov doing this as ''"Wow, what a dick! That is just low."'', until reading in a synopsis that this was the character attempting to do a good thing by not telling a mother of her son’s death. Definite case of DidNotDoTheResearch on the writers' part.
to:
* Values Dissonance: Dissonance:
** Danilov tells Sasha’s mother that Sasha defected to the Germans. Allegedly this was because Danilov could not bear to tell her the grim truth. Sasha’s mother reacts with relief and hope. This not only makes no sense from the context of what we’ve seen in the movie, but is also totally opposite from how such news would have actually been received, given the setting. We saw earlier in the movie how the commanders were suggesting to continue [[DisproportionateRetribution killing the families]] of those who failed to bring victory. For Danilov to report Sasha as a defector, it means Sasha betrayed the Motherland, and that not only disgraces Shasha’s name (and his family’s name) forever, but puts his whole family in mortal danger from the regime, and possibly also anyone they associate with (i.e. Zaytzev and Danilov).
** Secondly, governmental DisproportionateRetribution aside, if one considers the cultural attitude at the time, it would have only made sense for Danilov to tell her the truth: Sasha died in service to his nation. If Danilov had done that, Sasha would have been remembered as a hero. If a (Soviet) Russian mother receives news of her son’s defection, on that day, she no longer has a son (she would disown him, in addition to him being made a non-person by the government).
** When this Russian troper first watched that scene, I though of Danilov doing this as ''"Wow, what a dick! That is just low."'', until reading in a synopsis that this was the character attempting to do a good thing by not telling a mother of her son’s death. Definite case of DidNotDoTheResearch on the writers' part.
** Danilov tells Sasha’s mother that Sasha defected to the Germans. Allegedly this was because Danilov could not bear to tell her the grim truth. Sasha’s mother reacts with relief and hope. This not only makes no sense from the context of what we’ve seen in the movie, but is also totally opposite from how such news would have actually been received, given the setting. We saw earlier in the movie how the commanders were suggesting to continue [[DisproportionateRetribution killing the families]] of those who failed to bring victory. For Danilov to report Sasha as a defector, it means Sasha betrayed the Motherland, and that not only disgraces Shasha’s name (and his family’s name) forever, but puts his whole family in mortal danger from the regime, and possibly also anyone they associate with (i.e. Zaytzev and Danilov).
** Secondly, governmental DisproportionateRetribution aside, if one considers the cultural attitude at the time, it would have only made sense for Danilov to tell her the truth: Sasha died in service to his nation. If Danilov had done that, Sasha would have been remembered as a hero. If a (Soviet) Russian mother receives news of her son’s defection, on that day, she no longer has a son (she would disown him, in addition to him being made a non-person by the government).
** When this Russian troper first watched that scene, I though of Danilov doing this as ''"Wow, what a dick! That is just low."'', until reading in a synopsis that this was the character attempting to do a good thing by not telling a mother of her son’s death. Definite case of DidNotDoTheResearch on the writers' part.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 42,43 (click to see context) from:
* Values Dissonance: Danilov tells Sasha’s mother that Sasha defected to the Germans. Allegedly this was because Danilov could not bear to tell her the grim truth. Sasha’s mother reacts with relief and hope. This not only makes no sense from the context of what we’ve seen in the movie, but is also totally opposite from how such news would have actually been received, given the setting. We saw earlier in the movie how the commanders were suggesting to continue [[DisproportionateRetribution killing the families]] of those who failed to bring victory. For Danilov to report Sasha as a defector, it means Sasha betrayed the Motherland, and that not only disgraces Shasha’s name (and his family’s name) forever, but puts his whole family in mortal danger from the regime, and possibly also anyone they associate with (i.e. Zaytzev and Danilov).
Secondly, governmental DisproportionateRetribution aside, if one considers the cultural attitude at the time, it would have only made sense for Danilov to tell her the truth: Sasha died in service to his nation. If Danilov had done that, Sasha would have been remembered as a hero. If a (Soviet) Russian mother receives news of her son’s defection, on that day, she no longer has a son (she would disown him, in addition to him being made a non-person by the government).
Secondly, governmental DisproportionateRetribution aside, if one considers the cultural attitude at the time, it would have only made sense for Danilov to tell her the truth: Sasha died in service to his nation. If Danilov had done that, Sasha would have been remembered as a hero. If a (Soviet) Russian mother receives news of her son’s defection, on that day, she no longer has a son (she would disown him, in addition to him being made a non-person by the government).
to:
* Values Dissonance: Danilov tells Sasha’s mother that Sasha defected to the Germans. Allegedly this was because Danilov could not bear to tell her the grim truth. Sasha’s mother reacts with relief and hope. This not only makes no sense from the context of what we’ve seen in the movie, but is also totally opposite from how such news would have actually been received, given the setting. We saw earlier in the movie how the commanders were suggesting to continue [[DisproportionateRetribution killing the families]] of those who failed to bring victory. For Danilov to report Sasha as a defector, it means Sasha betrayed the Motherland, and that not only disgraces Shasha’s name (and his family’s name) forever, but puts his whole family in mortal danger from the regime, and possibly also anyone they associate with (i.e. Zaytzev and Danilov).
Danilov). Secondly, governmental DisproportionateRetribution aside, if one considers the cultural attitude at the time, it would have only made sense for Danilov to tell her the truth: Sasha died in service to his nation. If Danilov had done that, Sasha would have been remembered as a hero. If a (Soviet) Russian mother receives news of her son’s defection, on that day, she no longer has a son (she would disown him, in addition to him being made a non-person by the government).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* Values Dissonance: Danilov tells Sasha’s mother that Sasha defected to the Germans. Allegedly this was because Danilov could not bear to tell her the grim truth. Sasha’s mother reacts with relief and hope. This not only makes no sense from the context of what we’ve seen in the movie, but is also totally opposite from how such news would have actually been received, given the setting. We saw earlier in the movie how the commanders were suggesting to continue [[DisproportionateRetribution killing the families]] of those who failed to bring victory. For Danilov to report Sasha as a defector, it means Sasha betrayed the Motherland, and that not only disgraces Shasha’s name (and his family’s name) forever, but puts his whole family in mortal danger from the regime, and possibly also anyone they associate with (i.e. Zaytzev and Danilov).
Secondly, governmental DisproportionateRetribution aside, if one considers the cultural attitude at the time, it would have only made sense for Danilov to tell her the truth: Sasha died in service to his nation. If Danilov had done that, Sasha would have been remembered as a hero. If a (Soviet) Russian mother receives news of her son’s defection, on that day, she no longer has a son (she would disown him, in addition to him being made a non-person by the government).
When this Russian troper first watched that scene, I though of Danilov doing this as ''"Wow, what a dick! That is just low."'', until reading in a synopsis that this was the character attempting to do a good thing by not telling a mother of her son’s death. Definite case of DidNotDoTheResearch on the writers' part.
Secondly, governmental DisproportionateRetribution aside, if one considers the cultural attitude at the time, it would have only made sense for Danilov to tell her the truth: Sasha died in service to his nation. If Danilov had done that, Sasha would have been remembered as a hero. If a (Soviet) Russian mother receives news of her son’s defection, on that day, she no longer has a son (she would disown him, in addition to him being made a non-person by the government).
When this Russian troper first watched that scene, I though of Danilov doing this as ''"Wow, what a dick! That is just low."'', until reading in a synopsis that this was the character attempting to do a good thing by not telling a mother of her son’s death. Definite case of DidNotDoTheResearch on the writers' part.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3,4 (click to see context) from:
In the movie, Zaytsev (Law) is a young, slightly naive shephard from the Urals press-ganged into serving in the Battle of Stalingrad during the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1942. He barely manages to survive a futile charge at the German positions and encounters a political commissar, Danilov (Joseph Fiennes), who witnesses him expertly take out an five enemy officers single-handedly with just an abandoned rifle and five bullets. Impressed by the young man's gifted marksmanship, Danilov has him reassigned to the sniper division and uses his propaganda connections to spread the story of his exploits, turning him into a hero and restoring the broken morale of the Soviet defenders. Unfortunately, the friendship between the two becomes strained when both fall in love with Tania (Rachel Weisz), a beautiful young woman who crosses the paths of both, and when the Germans, themselves now increasingly demoralized thanks to the stories of Zaytsev's exploits, introduce the cold, ruthless Major König (Ed Harris) into the battle. Himself a brilliant sniper, König has only one order -- kill Vasily Zaytsev.
to:
In the movie, Zaytsev (Law) is a young, slightly naive shephard from the Urals press-ganged into serving in the Battle of Stalingrad during the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1942. He barely manages to survive a futile charge at the German positions and encounters a political commissar, Danilov (Joseph Fiennes), who witnesses him expertly take out an five enemy officers single-handedly with just an abandoned rifle and five bullets. Impressed by the young man's gifted marksmanship, Danilov has him reassigned to the sniper division and uses his propaganda connections to spread the story of his exploits, turning him into a hero and restoring the broken morale of the Soviet defenders. Unfortunately, the friendship between the two becomes strained when both fall in love with Tania (Rachel Weisz), (RachelWeisz), a beautiful young woman who crosses the paths of both, and when the Germans, themselves now increasingly demoralized thanks to the stories of Zaytsev's exploits, introduce the cold, ruthless Major König (Ed Harris) into the battle. Himself a brilliant sniper, König has only one order -- kill Vasily Zaytsev.
Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
* {{Narm}}: The look on Rachel Weisz's face during that sex scene isn't so much "You're an amazing lover" as it is "[[FetishRetardant Oh fuck, you just tore something down there, and it hurts like hell.]]"
to:
* {{Narm}}: The look on Rachel Weisz's RachelWeisz's face during that sex scene isn't so much "You're an amazing lover" as it is "[[FetishRetardant Oh fuck, you just tore something down there, and it hurts like hell.]]"
Changed line(s) 31 (click to see context) from:
* RealityIsUnrealistic: Many critics loudly protested the presence of a love story between Jude Law and Rachel Weisz in the movie, which they felt was [[RomanticPlotTumor an unnecessary 'Hollywood' addition]] to the gritty sniper duel action. Actually, the love story is probably closer to what really happened than the sniper duel.
to:
* RealityIsUnrealistic: Many critics loudly protested the presence of a love story between Jude Law and Rachel Weisz RachelWeisz in the movie, which they felt was [[RomanticPlotTumor an unnecessary 'Hollywood' addition]] to the gritty sniper duel action. Actually, the love story is probably closer to what really happened than the sniper duel.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1,4 (click to see context) from:
''Enemy at the Gates'' is a 2001 war movie directed by JeanJacquesAnnaud and starring JudeLaw as a Russian sniper in the [[RedsWithRockets Soviet Red Army]] in [[WorldWarTwo the Great Patriotic War]], during the battle of Stalingrad. At the time it came out it was the most expensive film ever produced by an European studio.
It's VeryLooselyBasedOnATrueStory, that of the real-life sniper [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Zaytsev Vasily Zaytsev]].
It's VeryLooselyBasedOnATrueStory, that of the real-life sniper [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Zaytsev Vasily Zaytsev]].
to:
''Enemy at the Gates'' is a 2001 war movie directed by JeanJacquesAnnaud and starring JudeLaw as a Russian sniper in the [[RedsWithRockets Soviet Red Army]] in [[WorldWarTwo the Great Patriotic War]], during the battle of Stalingrad. At the time it came out it was the most expensive film ever produced by an European studio.
studio. It's VeryLooselyBasedOnATrueStory, that of the real-life sniper [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasily_Zaytsev Vasily Zaytsev]].
Zaytsev]].
In the movie, Zaytsev (Law) is a young, slightly naive shephard from the Urals press-ganged into serving in the Battle of Stalingrad during the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1942. He barely manages to survive a futile charge at the German positions and encounters a political commissar, Danilov (Joseph Fiennes), who witnesses him expertly take out an five enemy officers single-handedly with just an abandoned rifle and five bullets. Impressed by the young man's gifted marksmanship, Danilov has him reassigned to the sniper division and uses his propaganda connections to spread the story of his exploits, turning him into a hero and restoring the broken morale of the Soviet defenders. Unfortunately, the friendship between the two becomes strained when both fall in love with Tania (Rachel Weisz), a beautiful young woman who crosses the paths of both, and when the Germans, themselves now increasingly demoralized thanks to the stories of Zaytsev's exploits, introduce the cold, ruthless Major König (Ed Harris) into the battle. Himself a brilliant sniper, König has only one order -- kill Vasily Zaytsev.
In the movie, Zaytsev (Law) is a young, slightly naive shephard from the Urals press-ganged into serving in the Battle of Stalingrad during the German invasion of the Soviet Union in 1942. He barely manages to survive a futile charge at the German positions and encounters a political commissar, Danilov (Joseph Fiennes), who witnesses him expertly take out an five enemy officers single-handedly with just an abandoned rifle and five bullets. Impressed by the young man's gifted marksmanship, Danilov has him reassigned to the sniper division and uses his propaganda connections to spread the story of his exploits, turning him into a hero and restoring the broken morale of the Soviet defenders. Unfortunately, the friendship between the two becomes strained when both fall in love with Tania (Rachel Weisz), a beautiful young woman who crosses the paths of both, and when the Germans, themselves now increasingly demoralized thanks to the stories of Zaytsev's exploits, introduce the cold, ruthless Major König (Ed Harris) into the battle. Himself a brilliant sniper, König has only one order -- kill Vasily Zaytsev.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* SniperDuel: What the plot and center of the action is.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
**It was the bloodiest battle in human history, there is no way it could be darker and edgier.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** Compared to most war movies (at least American ones), especially WorldWarII ones, this is. If they showed what it was really like, it would be far too dark. It was shocking enough for those who are used to normal WWII films.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* TruthInTelevision: Around that point in the war, running away from a battle really was punishable by death in the Soviet Union. Stalin had ordered "Not one step backwards", and the commisars followed it.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
That\'s very obviously not what the original poster was referring to.
Changed line(s) 21,22 (click to see context) from:
* {{Narm}}: The look on Rachel Weisz's face during that sex scene isn't so much "You're an amazing lover" as it is "[[FetishRetardant Oh fuck, you just tore something down there!]]"
** [[IfYouKnowWhatIMean It's quite possible he did]]. Nothing about her character indicates that she's particularly promiscuous, and if they feel they're about to be killed, trying something at least once might be attractive all of a sudden...
** [[IfYouKnowWhatIMean It's quite possible he did]]. Nothing about her character indicates that she's particularly promiscuous, and if they feel they're about to be killed, trying something at least once might be attractive all of a sudden...
to:
* {{Narm}}: The look on Rachel Weisz's face during that sex scene isn't so much "You're an amazing lover" as it is "[[FetishRetardant Oh fuck, you just tore something down there!]]"
** [[IfYouKnowWhatIMean It's quite possible he did]]. Nothing about her character indicates that she's particularly promiscuous,there, and if they feel they're about to be killed, trying something at least once might be attractive all of a sudden...it hurts like hell.]]"
** [[IfYouKnowWhatIMean It's quite possible he did]]. Nothing about her character indicates that she's particularly promiscuous,
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* TheUriahGambit: When Danilov makes a point to put Vasily on the front lines during the German offensive.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
(make) (it) (stop)
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* AffablyEvil (Major Erwin König, especially when dealing with Sacha.)
to:
* AffablyEvil (Major AffablyEvil: Major Erwin König, especially when dealing with Sacha.)
Changed line(s) 11,15 (click to see context) from:
* AristocratsAreEvil (Sort of. König is a Nazi, but at first he's less evil than cold and ruthless in pursuing his task, and his motivation is not personal glory but revenge for the death of his son in the very first days of the battle. Up until his MoralEventHorizon, he comes off as just a guy doing a job, and he does try to avoid what he sees as the need to cross that MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler:he knows the whole time that Sacha's selling him out to Vasili, but he tells the kid to stay home where he belongs (and thus out of the way), implying he'd rather not kill him. It just doesn't stop him when Sacha doesn't listen.]])
* ChildrenAreInnocent (Not quite. Sacha [[spoiler:feeds Vasili all the information he gets out of König, and gives König slightly inaccurate intel on Vasili, but seems to have no idea just how dangerous a situation he's got himself into and volunteered to be a spy because he hero-worships Vasili.]] Given that the kid's grown up in a war zone and has presumably lost his father to the war, his relative lack of innocent is understandable.)
* ColdSniper (Averted. Vasily is most certainly not cold and unemotional. Played straight with Major König.)
* {{Commissar}} (Danilov. Subverted, he is a fairly nice person although his power does corrupt him enough to tempt him to use it to MurderTheHypotenuse because of jealousy in a LoveTriangle.)
* CuteShotaroBoy (Sacha)
* ChildrenAreInnocent (Not quite. Sacha [[spoiler:feeds Vasili all the information he gets out of König, and gives König slightly inaccurate intel on Vasili, but seems to have no idea just how dangerous a situation he's got himself into and volunteered to be a spy because he hero-worships Vasili.]] Given that the kid's grown up in a war zone and has presumably lost his father to the war, his relative lack of innocent is understandable.)
* ColdSniper (Averted. Vasily is most certainly not cold and unemotional. Played straight with Major König.)
* {{Commissar}} (Danilov. Subverted, he is a fairly nice person although his power does corrupt him enough to tempt him to use it to MurderTheHypotenuse because of jealousy in a LoveTriangle.)
* CuteShotaroBoy (Sacha)
to:
* AristocratsAreEvil (Sort AristocratsAreEvil: Sort of. König is a Nazi, but at first he's less evil than cold and ruthless in pursuing his task, and his motivation is not personal glory but revenge for the death of his son in the very first days of the battle. Up until his MoralEventHorizon, he comes off as just a guy doing a job, and he does try to avoid what he sees as the need to cross that MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler:he knows the whole time that Sacha's selling him out to Vasili, but he tells the kid to stay home where he belongs (and thus out of the way), implying he'd rather not kill him. It just doesn't stop him when Sacha doesn't listen.]])
]]
*ChildrenAreInnocent (Not ChildrenAreInnocent: Not quite. Sacha [[spoiler:feeds Vasili all the information he gets out of König, and gives König slightly inaccurate intel on Vasili, but seems to have no idea just how dangerous a situation he's got himself into and volunteered to be a spy because he hero-worships Vasili.]] Given that the kid's grown up in a war zone and has presumably lost his father to the war, his relative lack of innocent is understandable.)
understandable.
*ColdSniper (Averted.ColdSniper: Averted. Vasily is most certainly not cold and unemotional. Played straight with Major König.)
König.
*{{Commissar}} (Danilov. {{Commissar}}: Danilov. Subverted, he is a fairly nice person although his power does corrupt him enough to tempt him to use it to MurderTheHypotenuse because of jealousy in a LoveTriangle.)
LoveTriangle.
*CuteShotaroBoy (Sacha)CuteShotaroBoy: Sacha
*
*
*
*
Changed line(s) 24,26 (click to see context) from:
* NaziNobleman (Subverted in that, while König ''is'' an aristocrat, he's just in it because he wants revenge for his son, who was killed in the first days of the battle.
* NazisWithGnarlyWeapons (The villains of the film.)
* NotEvenBotheringWithTheAccent (Played straight, save for the mildy accented German officer who presents a report to Major König.)
* NazisWithGnarlyWeapons (The villains of the film.)
* NotEvenBotheringWithTheAccent (Played straight, save for the mildy accented German officer who presents a report to Major König.)
to:
* NaziNobleman (Subverted NaziNobleman: Subverted in that, while König ''is'' an aristocrat, he's just in it because he wants revenge for his son, who was killed in the first days of the battle.
*NazisWithGnarlyWeapons (The villains of the film.)
NazisWithGnarlyWeapons
*NotEvenBotheringWithTheAccent (Played NotEvenBotheringWithTheAccent: Played straight, save for the mildy accented German officer who presents a report to Major König.)
*
*
Changed line(s) 29,30 (click to see context) from:
--> '''Konig:''' ''(re: Vasily)'' He's not dead, because ''I'' haven't killed him.
* RealityIsUnrealistic (Many critics loudly protested the presence of a love story between Jude Law and Rachel Weisz in the movie, which they felt was [[RomanticPlotTumor an unnecessary 'Hollywood' addition]] to the gritty sniper duel action. Actually, the love story is probably closer to what really happened than the sniper duel.)
* RealityIsUnrealistic (Many critics loudly protested the presence of a love story between Jude Law and Rachel Weisz in the movie, which they felt was [[RomanticPlotTumor an unnecessary 'Hollywood' addition]] to the gritty sniper duel action. Actually, the love story is probably closer to what really happened than the sniper duel.)
to:
--> '''Konig:''' ''(re: ''(regarding Vasily)'' He's not dead, because ''I'' haven't killed him.
*RealityIsUnrealistic (Many RealityIsUnrealistic: Many critics loudly protested the presence of a love story between Jude Law and Rachel Weisz in the movie, which they felt was [[RomanticPlotTumor an unnecessary 'Hollywood' addition]] to the gritty sniper duel action. Actually, the love story is probably closer to what really happened than the sniper duel.)
*
Changed line(s) 32,33 (click to see context) from:
* RedsWithRockets (The protagonists of the film)
* RomanticPlotTumor (Does ''anyone'' find the love triangle more interesting than the sniper duel?)
* RomanticPlotTumor (Does ''anyone'' find the love triangle more interesting than the sniper duel?)
to:
* RedsWithRockets (The protagonists of the film)
RedsWithRockets
*RomanticPlotTumor (Does RomanticPlotTumor: Does ''anyone'' find the love triangle more interesting than the sniper duel?)duel?
*
Changed line(s) 38 (click to see context) from:
* VeryLooselyBasedOnATrueStory: Although Zaytsev was a real life sniper, some historians believe the duel story, or at least the bit about a talented German sniper being brought to Stalingrad solely to kill him, is just Soviet propaganda.) As far as the villain, Erwin Konig, historians have yet to turn up any hard evidence that the guy even ''existed'', let alone that he came to Stalingrad.
to:
* VeryLooselyBasedOnATrueStory: Although Zaytsev was a real life sniper, some historians believe the duel story, or at least the bit about a talented German sniper being brought to Stalingrad solely to kill him, is just Soviet propaganda.) As far as the villain, Erwin Konig, historians have yet to turn up any hard evidence that the guy even ''existed'', let alone that he came to Stalingrad.
Changed line(s) 44 (click to see context) from:
* YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness ([[spoiler:Subverted. Commissar Danilov has a report written on Zaitsev's disloyalty, defeatist statements and disillusionment with the Communist cause, but Zaitsev survives and becomes a war hero.]])
to:
* YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness ([[spoiler:Subverted.YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness: [[spoiler:Subverted. Commissar Danilov has a report written on Zaitsev's disloyalty, defeatist statements and disillusionment with the Communist cause, but Zaitsev survives and becomes a war hero.]])]]
Changed line(s) 48 (click to see context) from:
* YourMileageMayVary (König's MoralEventHorizon. [[spoiler:He hung Sacha, yes, but the kid subverts the ChildrenAreInnocent trope by playing double agent and selling out König and Vasily to each other. Before König found that out, he was perfectly nice to the kid, or at least as nice as a ColdSniper can get.]])
to:
* YourMileageMayVary (König's YourMileageMayVary: König's MoralEventHorizon. [[spoiler:He hung Sacha, yes, but the kid subverts the ChildrenAreInnocent trope by playing double agent and selling out König and Vasily to each other. Before König found that out, he was perfectly nice to the kid, or at least as nice as a ColdSniper can get.]])]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* DarkerAndEdgier: Subverted - for a movie set in one of the darkest hours of the [[WorldWarII Great Patriotic War]], it came off as entirely too light-hearted, especially to many Russians (including this troper, but more so to my comrades who were actually in that battle).
Added DiffLines:
* HoYay: Subverted - a viewer who knows nothing about the camaraderie in European armies (and European military culture in general) might think Vasily and Danilov have a thing for each other, but no, they're just army buddies.
Added DiffLines:
* MortonsFork: "Here the men's only choices are between German bullets and ours."
Added DiffLines:
* RedemptionEqualsDeath: [[spoiler: Danilov exposes himself to draw out König, as one final act of friendship towards Vasily, after trying to destroy his image with the Soviets]]
Added DiffLines:
* TakeAThirdOption: "Give them hope. Here the men's only choices are between German bullets and ours. But there is another way - a way of courage. A way of love of the Motherland"
Added DiffLines:
* WarIsGlorious: "We must publish the army newspaper again and tell magnificent stories - stories that exalt sacrifice, bravery. We must make them believe in a victory. We must give them hope, pride, a desire to fight. Yes, we need to make examples, but examples to follow. What we need are heroes."
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* AffablyEvil (Major Erwin König)
to:
* AffablyEvil (Major Erwin König)König, especially when dealing with Sacha.)
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
* AnyOneCanDie: Considering it's war and based somewhat on events that happened, anyway [[spoiler: a number of supporting characters include Sacha are killed by König]].
to:
* AnyOneCanDie: AnyoneCanDie: Considering it's war and based somewhat on events that happened, anyway [[spoiler: a number of supporting characters include Sacha are killed by König]].König]].
* AristocratsAreEvil (Sort of. König is a Nazi, but at first he's less evil than cold and ruthless in pursuing his task, and his motivation is not personal glory but revenge for the death of his son in the very first days of the battle. Up until his MoralEventHorizon, he comes off as just a guy doing a job, and he does try to avoid what he sees as the need to cross that MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler:he knows the whole time that Sacha's selling him out to Vasili, but he tells the kid to stay home where he belongs (and thus out of the way), implying he'd rather not kill him. It just doesn't stop him when Sacha doesn't listen.]])
* ChildrenAreInnocent (Not quite. Sacha [[spoiler:feeds Vasili all the information he gets out of König, and gives König slightly inaccurate intel on Vasili, but seems to have no idea just how dangerous a situation he's got himself into and volunteered to be a spy because he hero-worships Vasili.]] Given that the kid's grown up in a war zone and has presumably lost his father to the war, his relative lack of innocent is understandable.)
* AristocratsAreEvil (Sort of. König is a Nazi, but at first he's less evil than cold and ruthless in pursuing his task, and his motivation is not personal glory but revenge for the death of his son in the very first days of the battle. Up until his MoralEventHorizon, he comes off as just a guy doing a job, and he does try to avoid what he sees as the need to cross that MoralEventHorizon: [[spoiler:he knows the whole time that Sacha's selling him out to Vasili, but he tells the kid to stay home where he belongs (and thus out of the way), implying he'd rather not kill him. It just doesn't stop him when Sacha doesn't listen.]])
* ChildrenAreInnocent (Not quite. Sacha [[spoiler:feeds Vasili all the information he gets out of König, and gives König slightly inaccurate intel on Vasili, but seems to have no idea just how dangerous a situation he's got himself into and volunteered to be a spy because he hero-worships Vasili.]] Given that the kid's grown up in a war zone and has presumably lost his father to the war, his relative lack of innocent is understandable.)
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* ThisIsSparta: Krushchev wants his soldiers to "Stop! Shitting! Their Pants!"
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Neither do they had fake accents.
Deleted line(s) 17 (click to see context) :
* {{Lzherusskie}}: Not a single Russian actor in a more or less notable role.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* {{Lzherusskie}}: Not a single Russian actor in a more or less notable role.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
The Soviets, unlike 99.9% of their Western portrayals, are NOT EVIL in this movie.
Deleted line(s) 14 (click to see context) :
* EvilVersusEvil The rivalry of Stalin and Hitler, two of the most brutal leaders in the history of the world.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 16,17 (click to see context) :
* HollywoodTactics: The Soviet troops are sent forward in ridiculous human wave attacks, half of them ''without guns'', which leaves one wondering what, exactly, they were supposed to fight the enemy with. The film generated quite a bit of protest from real-life Russian veterans' groups due to this scene.
** What wonder? The scene includes superiors stating 'if your companion is killed, you take the rifle and keep pushing'. They apparently didn't have enough rifles. I understand the protests, but there was no surprise for me about it.
** What wonder? The scene includes superiors stating 'if your companion is killed, you take the rifle and keep pushing'. They apparently didn't have enough rifles. I understand the protests, but there was no surprise for me about it.
