History DethroningMoment / OnceUponATime

What if Disney was a TV show? Well, that’s the basic idea behind OnceUponATime. Unfortunately, just like any other TV show, it can have some moments that can trigger the fandom.

* Silverblade2: "Heart Of Gold", so we have the "[[ShockingSwerve reveal]]" that Marian was actually Zelena all along, who killed and replaced her since season 3 finale in a [[GambitRoulette incredibly contrived plan]] to piss off her sister Regina. This is wrong for multiple reasons. First this is a nonsensical {{Asspull}} that raises many questions such as how Zelena could know that Regina's prisoner was Robin's wife when even Emma and Hook didn't. Bringing back Zelena isn't a good idea when the story arc already has Gold, Ursula, Cruella, Maleficient and the Author as antagonists. Also [[DeathOfTheHypotenuse Marian being dead all along]] conveniently allows Robin to reunite with his "true love" Regina, you know, the one who killed Marian in the original timeline. Robin cheating on Marian earlier in the season is in consequence [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality immediatly forgiven]]. To add insult to injury, Gold immediately sides with the one who [[spoiler: murdered his son]] just when I thought that his CharacterDerailment couldn't get worse. Really even if the season was [[SeasonalRot already bad]], I was willing to give it a chance until that point.

* {{@/metaceejay97}}: Two words can describe Season 5A for me: [[PunctuatedForEmphasis Utterly.]] [[PrecisionFStrike Shit.]] Sure, the Zelena Arc in Season 3 wasn't great, and season 4 is a slightly confusing mess, but this is something special. It has a good premise: A [[VillainProtagonist heel Emma Swan]] goes against her former friends. Meanwhile in the flashbacks, using the [[KingArthur Camelot]] mythos, the group desperately tries, and fails, to stop Emma going to the dark side. Sounds good? The writers seemed to think so, as instead of letting it go naturally, they decided to make the arc stretch out as much as possible. That, and the fact that heel Emma Swan wasn't completely evil even though she was the Dark One, the show's equivalent of {{Satan}}, until the actual Satan, or rather, [[spoiler: Hades,]] came along. It's a bad sign that the best episode was not actually relevant to the main storyline other than setting up the [[ChekhovsGun magical ale for later on in the season]] and ended up giving Merida more of a character. The worst aspect of this arc were the characters. Who were good characters in this arc? Merida and Mulan? Too little screen-time to the point of having scenes cut. Zelena? Alright, but 99% of her dialogue was about her baby, giving me horrific [[VideoGame/MetroidOtherM Other M]] flashbacks. Merlin? ...alright, he's legitimately good. The rest of the characters, especially the villains, are either boring or pointless. Heel Hook returned, but only for a collective ten minutes. King Arthur was a gutless sack of tripe, though thankfully Season 5B [[spoiler: makes him more honourable and makes him king of the Underworld.]] And then there's Nimue. [[PrecisionFStrike Fuck her.]] Her backstory is interesting, being [[spoiler:Merlin's former love who ended up becoming the first Dark One.]] Good, right? Well, she's boring as all hell. And she ends up [[spoiler:hijacking the BigBad role and dies as quickly as she appears.]] THANKFULLY, Season 5B MORE than makes up for it, but GOD! This arc was awful. The best thing to come out of it? [[BigLippedAlligatorMoment This arc was NEVER mentioned again,]] for the better, making this entire arc, and [[spoiler:Emma sacrificing her goodness in Season 4B,]] completely pointless. I choose to do that.

* Star-Lady: Having gone into the show knowing Emma and Hook were going to end up together (being a fan of FoeYayShipping), I was excited to see how it unfolded. Unfortunately the show completely botched their first kiss. In “Good Form”, Hook saves Charming’s life (sort of, they know the cure will wear off once they get off Neverland and neglect to tell the others that, but I digress) and Hook taps his lips and tells Emma he believes some gratitude is in order, I.e he thinks he is entitled to a kiss for doing something honorable. Emma rightfully tells him that’s what her thanking him was for. Now this could have been an opportunity for Hook to learn that becoming a hero doesn’t automatically mean you are owed a kiss and you should do heroic things out of the goodness of your heart, not so someone will like you. But no. Hook proceeds to ask her if that is all her father’s life is worth (I.e. guilt-tripping) and Emma gives in. Now, I will admit Emma clearly seems to be enjoying the kiss and it seems she did want it after all. But that’s beyond the point, you should never tell someone to kiss you as a form of gratitude. No matter how heroic you are, you are not entitled to a kiss. But the show completely glorifies this and acts like it’s romantic to request a kiss as a reward for heroism and implies that if you don’t kiss someone for saving your father’s life, you don’t think his life is worth much. This is typical “Nice Guy” behavior. I’ve read fics that do Emma and Hook’s first kiss better than this show did.

* ByronFenetre: Briefly surmising many of these opinions, which I share along with some different perspectives of my own, the second half of Season 4 was like a highway pileup wreck. Mainly it’s the storylines, one: the three queens of darkness, one (Ursula) walks away happy with her dad, the second (Cruella) is killed, and the third (Malificent) could have been a promising story lead along with her daughter. Instead they fade into the background. All is the consequence of colliding with the second subplot of Rumple and the Author, the latter being given a devious and pernicious character and (sadly) given a Jewish name and background (as if the writers were venting anti-Semitic reservations in creating a Shylockian antagonist). Finally is the return of Zelena, who is given attention for a couple of episodes before she and Malificent’s daughter are folded into a finale plot focused squarely on Mr. Gold and the intentionally insidious and presumably offensively written author Isaac. And in the next season, Dark One Emma was as much of a turn-off as Elsa was a turn-on at the start of Season 4 in regards to gaining viewers for a series. The notion that the forces of darkness are like an angst-bucket of a drug or liquor which when ingested forces the investor to be unapologetically and inexplicably evil because he or she is the Dark One feels like a weak plot. It also made me give up watching the show ever again after the season five premiere because despite the interesting characters they add to the story, many promising candidates for spots in the main plot are pushed aside for the same old same old which with the exceptions of Regina, Henry, Killian, Emma, and Gold have become redundant and unimportant (ie: the Charmings, the dwarves, Zelena, etc).

** Tropers/EmperorOshron: I think this whole arc was just terrible in general, to the point that I skip over it completely when rewatching the series on Netflix, but the dumbest thing in all of it was simply the inclusion of Cruella de Vil. Why? Simply why? There have to be at least a dozen other, much better Disney/fairy tale characters who could have been used to round out the trio of evil sorceresses besides those already included. Maleficent has always been an antagonist even as the unnamed "Evil Fairy" in the original Sleeping Beauty fairy tale and, later, in Tchaikovsky's ballet; Ursula was just an undersea sorceress in the original but rewritten as a concerted evil witch in the Disney version and she demonstrates her powers quite effectively. Cruella is literally just a RichBitch who wanted to make coats out of puppy dogs, and that's it. If they wanted another evil sorceress, why not [[Disney/TheEmperorsNewGroove Yzma]], or [[Disney/TheSwordInTheStone Madam Mim]]? Even Lady Tremaine from ''Cinderella'' would be more fitting! I heard that fans wanted her but that's no excuse for including her. They already stretched the definition of fantasy/fairy tale by including Dr. Frankenstein, but at least that had the decidedly fantastical use of electricity to reanimate the dead. Cruella being included--as a magic-user, no less--was just plain stupid.

* Silverblade2: "Heart Of Gold", so we have the "[[ShockingSwerve reveal]]" that Marian was actually [[VillainSue Zelena]] all along, who killed and replaced her since season 3 finale in a [[GambitRoulette incredibly contrived plan]] to piss off her sister Regina. This is wrong for multiple reasons. First this is a nonsensical {{Asspull}} that raises many questions such as how Zelena could know that Regina's prisoner was Robin's wife when even Emma and Hook didn't. Bringing back Zelena isn't a good idea when the story arc already has Gold, Ursula, Cruella, Maleficient and the Author as antagonists. Also [[DeathOfTheHypotenuse Marian being dead all along]] conveniently allows Robin to reunite with his "true love" Regina, you know, the one who killed Marian in the original timeline. Robin cheating on Marian earlier in the season is in consequence [[ProtagonistCenteredMorality immediatly forgiven]]. To add insult to injury, Gold immediately sides with the one who [[spoiler: murdered his son]] just when I thought that his CharacterDerailment couldn't get worse. Really even if the season was [[SeasonalRot already bad]], I was willing to give it a chance until that point.

What if Disney was a TV show? Well, that’s the basic idea behind OnceUponATime. Unfortunately, just like any other TV show, it can have some moments that can sometimes trigger the fandom’s BerserkButton.

* ByronFenetre: Briefly surmising many of these opinions, which I share along with some different perspectives of my own, the second half of Season 4 was like a highway pileup wreck. Mainly it’s the storylines, one: the three queens of darkness, one (Ursula) walks away happy with her dad, the second (Cruella) is killed, and the third (Malificent) could have been a promising story lead along with her daughter. Instead they fade into the background. All is the consequence of colliding with the second subplot of Rumple and the Author, the latter being given a devious and pernicious character and (sadly) given a Jewish name and background (as if the writers were venting anti-Semitic reservations in creating a Shylockian antagonist). Finally is the return of Zelena, who is given attention for a couple of episodes before she and Malificent’s daughter are folded into a finale plot focused squarely on Mr. Gold and the intentionally insidious and presumably offensively written author Isaac. And in the next season, dark one Emma was as much of a turn-off as Elsa was a turn-one at the start of Season 4 in regards to gaining viewers for a series. The notion that the forces of darkness like an angst-bucket of a drug or liquor which when ingested forces the investor to be unapologetically and inexplicably evil because he or she is the dark one feels like a weak plot. It also made me give up watching the show ever again after the season five premiere because despite the interesting characters they add to the story, many promising candidates for spots in the main plot are pushed aside for the same old same old which with the exceptions of Regina, Henry, Killian, Emma, and Gold have become redundant and unimportant (ie: the Charmings, the dwarves, and Zelena).

** Tropers/CaellachTigerEye: For better or worse, these points have been addressed - the Author really can do what Regina thinks (although he isn't supposed to and is meant to just record), and she does get called out for exactly that by Marco of all people (who explicitly says "why do you think you deserve happiness after everything you've done?"), making her admit it... somewhat, at least. Not that the former plot point isn't a rather stupid narrative idea; the latter can be a bit more justified when considering Regina clearly wants to be TheAtoner (and she didn't deserve the events which led to her decisions that made her evil), but given how much she's done you'd think she'd need to fight non-stop to make up for her past actions. Apparently, a willingness to sacrifice her life to save Storybrooke in the Season 2 finale is enough to make a number of them forgive her, ignoring that she put the town in that danger to begin with.

* Briefly surmising many of these opinions, which I share along with some different perspectives of my own, the second half of Season 4 was like a highway pileup wreck. Mainly it’s the storylines, one: the three queens of darkness, one (Ursula) walks away happy with her dad, the second (Cruella) is killed, and the third (Malificent) could have been a promising story lead along with her daughter. Instead they fade into the background. All is the consequence of colliding with the second subplot of Rumple and the Author, the latter being given a devious and pernicious character and (sadly) given a Jewish name and background (as if the writers were venting anti-Semitic reservations in creating a Shylockian antagonist). Finally is the return of Zelena, who is given attention for a couple of episodes before she and Malificent’s daughter are folded into a finale plot focused squarely on Mr. Gold and the intentionally insidious and presumably offensively written author Isaac. And in the next season, dark one Emma was as much of a turn-off as Elsa was a turn-one at the start of Season 4 in regards to gaining viewers for a series. The notion that the forces of darkness like an angst-bucket of a drug or liquor which when ingested forces the investor to be unapologetically and inexplicably evil because he or she is the dark one feels like a weak plot. It also made me give up watching the show ever again after the season five premiere because despite the interesting characters they add to the story, many promising candidates for spots in the main plot are pushed aside for the same old same old which with the exceptions of Regina, Henry, Killian, Emma, and Gold have become redundant and unimportant (ie: the Charmings, the dwarves, and Zelena).

* Briefly surmising many of these opinions, which I share along with some different perspectives of my own, the second half of Season 4 was like a highway pileup wreck. Mainly it’s the storylines, one: the three queens of darkness, one (Ursula) walks away happy with her dad, the second (Cruella) is killed, and the third (Malificent) could have been a promising story lead along with her daughter. Instead they fade into the background. All is the consequence of colliding with the second subplot of Rumple and the Author, the latter being given a devious and pernicious character and (sadly) given a Jewish name and background (as if the writers were venting anti-Semitic reservations in creating a Shylockian antagonist. Finally is the return of Zelena, who is given attention for a couple of episodes before she and Malificent’s daughter are folded into a finale plot focused squarely on Mr. Gold and the intentionally insidious and presumably offensively written author Isaac. And in the next season, dark one Emma was as much of a turn-off as Elsa was a turn-one in regards to gaining viewers for a series. The notion that the forces of darkness like an angst-bucket of a drug or liquor which when ingested forces the investor to be unapologetically and inexplicably evil because he or she is the dark one feels like a weak plot. It also made me give up watching the show ever again after the season five premiere because despite the interesting characters they add to the story, many promising candidates for spots in the main plot are pushed aside for the same old same old which with the exceptions of Regina, Henry, Killian, Emma, and Gold have become redundant and unimportant (ie: the Charmings, the dwarves, and Zelena).

* Briefly surmising many of these opinions, which I share along with some different perspectives of my own, the second half of Season 4 was like a highway pileup wreck. Mainly it’s the storylines, one: the three queens of darkness, one (Ursula) walks away happy with her dad, the second (Cruella) is killed, and the third (Malificent) could have been a promising story lead along with her daughter. Instead they fade into the background. All is the consequence of colliding with the second subplot of Rumple and the Author, the latter being given a devious and pernicious character and (sadly) given a Jewish name and background (as if the writers were venting anti-Semitic reservations in creating a Shylockian antagonist. Finally is the return of Zelena, who is given attention for a couple of episodes before she and Malificent’s daughter are folded into a finale plot focused squarely on the typewritten, despicable and derogatory Author

* Lady Pedantica: The whole Author arc was pretty terrible (hello contrived mirror universe!), but the part that stands out the most to me is the way Snow and Charming try to "erase the evil" from the unborn Emma. Even if [[spoiler:their actions are a result of control by the Author]], it's still stupid and pointless. Neither Emma nor the planned recipient of her evil side act purely good or evil, ever. It seems like an attempt at making Prince Charming and Snow White seem more flawed, but it's completely out of character, and again, someone else made them do it, so once that's pointed out they no longer have to deal with any negative consequences of their actions.

* SG_741: I remember the exact moment when I started to not enjoy the show anymore. It was during episode 2x10 – The Cricket Game, when OUAT came back from its winter hiatus. In this episode, a flashback reveals that Snow and Charming finally caught the Evil Queen and were going to execute her for her crimes. Snow is reluctant to do so because she still loves her stepmother. Literally at the last second, Snow stops the execution (this despite Regina's would-be last words were about how much she's NOT sorry for trying to kill her). Ok, fine - it's in Snow's character to be merciful. My DMOS is what happens later – Snow and Charming [[IdiotBall let Regina go!]] That is to say, they banished her. Now, had banishment been an actual punishment, it MIGHT have been okay, but we know from Season 1 that prior to casting her curse, Regina had been living an otherwise luxurious lifestyle, seemingly free to come and go as she pleased. [[KarmaHoudini What kind of punishment is that?!]] It's all justified in that Snow and Charming are magically protected from Regina and the latter can never directly hurt them again. Proof of this is shown when Regina stabs Snow [[NoGoodDeedGoesUnpunished immediately after Snow opens her prison cell door]], and the blade doesn’t harm her. Okay, fine, THEY'RE protected; [[WhatTheHellHero but what about the people who suffered and died under Regina's oppression?]] [[WhatTheHellHero Where's their justice?]] And, of course, [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Regina is now free to cast her curse.]] That episode, this moment, marked the beginning of Snowing's [[CharacterDerailment character assassination]], leading to the aforementioned whitewashing of Regina's crimes and Snow's black heart storyline. OUAT [[FanonDiscontinuity stopped being canon for me after 2x09]] for dozens of reasons, most of them related to [[JerkSue Regina]].

* LadyPedantica: The whole Author arc was pretty terrible (hello contrived mirror universe!), but the part that stands out the most to me is the way Snow and Charming try to "erase the evil" from the unborn Emma. Even if [[spoiler:their actions are a result of control by the Author]], it's still stupid and pointless. Neither Emma nor the planned recipient of her evil side act purely good or evil, ever. It seems like an attempt at making Prince Charming and Snow White seem more flawed, but it's completely out of character, and again, someone else made them do it, so once that's pointed out they no longer have to deal with any negative consequences of their actions.

* Miniatures: The season 3 finale killed it for me. Emma and Hook are sent back in time, and instead of using that opportunity to tell past!Rumpelstiltskin how to save Neal (who had just died), Emma insists that Rumple let Neal stay dead so his sacrifice won't have been in vain. And Rumple agrees... for some reason, despite having spent centuries with the single goal of reuniting with Neal. Even worse, Emma says this while in the process of changing the timeline by saving Marian from Regina's dungeon! She can save what she thinks is a random stranger, but not the father of her child, whom she said she would always love? Even if she isn't ''in'' love with him anymore, he was still a good man and an important figure in her and Henry's lives. It was completely ridiculous, and Emma's reasoning was obviously a result of the writers trying to force Neal out of the way for the Emma/Hook ship. All they had to do was make Emma and Rumple act completely OutOfCharacter.

* SG_741: I remember the exact moment when I started to lose faith in this show. It was during episode 2x10 – The Cricket Game, when OUAT came back from its winter hiatus. In this episode, a flashback reveals that Snow and Charming finally caught the Evil Queen and were going to execute her for her crimes. Snow is reluctant to do so because she still loves her stepmother. Literally at the last second, Snow stops the execution (this despite Regina's would-be last words were about how much she's NOT sorry for trying to kill her). Ok, fine - it's in Snow's character to be merciful. My DMOS is what happens later – Snow and Charming [[IdiotBall let Regina go!]] That is to say, they banished her. Now, had banishment been an actual punishment, it MIGHT have been okay, but we know from Season 1 that prior to casting her curse, Regina had been living an otherwise luxurious lifestyle, seemingly free to come and go as she pleased. [[KarmaHoudini What kind of punishment is that?!]] It's all justified in that Snow and Charming are magically protected from Regina and the latter can never directly hurt them again. Proof of this is shown when Regina stabs Snow [[NoGoodDeedGoesUnpunished immediately after Snow opens her prison cell door]], and the blade doesn’t harm her. Okay, fine, THEY'RE protected; [[WhatTheHellHero but what about the people who suffered and died under Regina's oppression?]] [[WhatTheHellHero Where's their justice?]] And, of course, [[NiceJobBreakingItHero Regina is now free to cast her curse.]] That episode, this moment, marked the beginning of Snowing's [[CharacterDerailment character assassination]], leading to the aforementioned whitewashing of Regina's crimes and Snow's black heart storyline. OUAT [[FanonDiscontinuity stopped being canon for me after 2x09]] for dozens of reasons, most of them related to [[JerkSue Regina]].

* Miniatures: The season 3 finale killed it for me. The characters have access to time travel, and instead of using that time travel to save Neal (who had just died), Emma insists that Rumple let Neal stay dead... so his sacrifice won't have been in vain. And Rumple agrees for some reason, despite having spent centuries with the single goal of reuniting with Neal. ''And'' Emma says this while in the process of changing the timeline by saving Marian from Regina's dungeon! She can save what she thinks is a random stranger, but not the father of her child? Even if she isn't in love with him anymore, he was still a good man and an important figure in her and Henry's lives. It was completely ridiculous, and Emma's reasoning was obviously a result of the writers trying to force Neal out of the way for the Emma/Hook ship. All they had to do was make Emma and Rumple act completely OutOfCharacter.

* Miniatures: The season 3 finale killed it for me. The characters have access to time travel, and instead of using that time travel to save Neal (who had just died), Emma insists that Rumple let Neal stay dead... so his sacrifice won't have been in vain. And Rumple agrees for some reason, despite having spent centuries with the single goal of reuniting with Neal. ''And'' Emma says this while in the process of changing the timeline by saving Marian from Regina's dungeon! She can save a random stranger, but not the father of her child? Even if she isn't in love with him anymore, he was still a good man and an important figure in her and Henry's lives. It was completely ridiculous, and Emma's reasoning was obviously a result of the writers trying to force Neal out of the way for the Emma/Hook ship. All they had to do was make Emma and Rumple act completely OutOfCharacter.

* Miniatures: The season 3 finale killed it for me. The characters have access to time travel, and instead of using that time travel to save Neal (who had just died), the man Emma loved, Henry's father, and Rumpelstiltzkin's beloved son, Emma insists that Rumple let Neal stay dead... so his sacrifice won't have been in vain. And Rumple agrees for some reason, despite having spent centuries with the single goal of reuniting with Neal. ''And'' Emma says this while in the process of changing the timeline by saving Marian from Regina's dungeon! She can save a random stranger, but not the father of her child? Even if she isn't in love with him anymore, he was still a good man and an important figure in her and Henry's lives. It was completely ridiculous, and Emma's reasoning was obviously a result of the writers trying to force Neal out of the way for the Emma/Hook ship. All they had to do was make Emma and Rumple act completely OutOfCharacter.

** fairygirl567: Man, you beat me to it, this was a horrible twist! Firstly, Zelena was never a favorite of mine, she was a horribly whiny character whose backstory was so contrived she could write the book on contrived backstories. Dead parent, check. A parent who resents them, check. Found out her life was a lie, check. Possesses powers, check. Evil for the sake of being evil, check! And she made a mockery of the Wicked Witch. I don't want to sound biased, but I think the musical Wicked had the best portrayal of the Witch Witch ever and this version was terrible. The actress herself was good, but man was she annoying and the whole twist that she's related to Regina made it worse. Now they bring her back, something no fan asked for, and bring her back in the dumbest of ways and it makes no sense at all. The viewers never get a hint, flashback or anything, just because we didn't see it coming doesn't make the twist a good one! It's like the writers are saying, she's back, deal with it! And the only reason they brought her back was to create drama, a love triangle because now she's pregnant with Robin's baby and he can't leave her and now it'll be even harder for Robin and Regina to be together. All so we can feel incredibly bad for poor Regina (even though she already has a huge fan base, me included). At least Regina had a reason to turn evil, at least Gold had a reason to turn evil; they had really crappy things happening to them. Shoot, the Author had a sort of good reason to be in the show and be evil. Zelena just had a few bad things happen to her that could've been fixed. Snow had a harder life than her! But Rumple deciding to work with her after she killed his son was what really did it for me! I love OUAT and always will, but sadly this show has a gotten a bad case of Running out of ideas-itis!