Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Updating links
Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
* This happens to Franchise/{{Batman}} a lot:
to:
* This happens to Franchise/{{Batman}} a lot:''ComicBook/{{Batman}}'':
Changed line(s) 31,34 (click to see context) from:
* ''Franchise/TheFlash'':
** ComicBook/WallyWest subverts this, thanks in large part to his CharacterDevelopment. When he took over the mantle of The Flash, Wally was initially quite a selfish JerkWithAHeartOfGold DeadpanSnarker looking to find a way to make a living off of heroics, but he also suffered from terrible depression and low self worth after Barry's death. However, several events (such as befriending the retired former villains The Rogues, especially the Pied Piper, and Chunk, a metahuman who accidentally caused massive property damage) showed Wally had a completely different view of supervillains, treating them with an open mind and acting more like a social worker, compared to Barry Allen who, as a police scientist, treated his heroics like cop work. Wally's subsequent Character Development had him grow out of his jaded selfishness and he became probably the most compassionate of the Flash franchise, and even more of TheCape than Barry.
** Happened to Wally West with Dark Flash, a mysterious character that turned out to be an alternate universe version of Wally who went by Walter. Unlike Walter, Wally wasn't able to save Linda Park in his equivalent of the ComicBook/TerminalVelocityDCComics story, and received some training under his universe's Savitar (a villain Wally defeated) before killing him. After Wally and Linda end up in his world, both were seemingly killed by Abra Kadabra, and Walter swore to avenge them. He started wearing a darker outfit and traveled to the main DC Universe. He was distrusting of other heroes and didn't reveal his identity to all but a select few, and was a bit more brutal in his methods. When Wally and Linda return, Walter is forced to leave, as he and Wally couldn't occupy the same universe for too long.
** Future Flash was a Barry Allen from a future timeline. He wore a blue outfit and killed his villains, because his failure to save the new Wally West resulted in him snapping and travelling back through time. Notably, he killed his villains on his way back, even though his plan would mean their actions wouldn't happen anyway. He fought the main Barry, who eventually got stuck in the Speed Force, and Future Flash took his place for a while. He eventually died.
** ComicBook/WallyWest subverts this, thanks in large part to his CharacterDevelopment. When he took over the mantle of The Flash, Wally was initially quite a selfish JerkWithAHeartOfGold DeadpanSnarker looking to find a way to make a living off of heroics, but he also suffered from terrible depression and low self worth after Barry's death. However, several events (such as befriending the retired former villains The Rogues, especially the Pied Piper, and Chunk, a metahuman who accidentally caused massive property damage) showed Wally had a completely different view of supervillains, treating them with an open mind and acting more like a social worker, compared to Barry Allen who, as a police scientist, treated his heroics like cop work. Wally's subsequent Character Development had him grow out of his jaded selfishness and he became probably the most compassionate of the Flash franchise, and even more of TheCape than Barry.
** Happened to Wally West with Dark Flash, a mysterious character that turned out to be an alternate universe version of Wally who went by Walter. Unlike Walter, Wally wasn't able to save Linda Park in his equivalent of the ComicBook/TerminalVelocityDCComics story, and received some training under his universe's Savitar (a villain Wally defeated) before killing him. After Wally and Linda end up in his world, both were seemingly killed by Abra Kadabra, and Walter swore to avenge them. He started wearing a darker outfit and traveled to the main DC Universe. He was distrusting of other heroes and didn't reveal his identity to all but a select few, and was a bit more brutal in his methods. When Wally and Linda return, Walter is forced to leave, as he and Wally couldn't occupy the same universe for too long.
** Future Flash was a Barry Allen from a future timeline. He wore a blue outfit and killed his villains, because his failure to save the new Wally West resulted in him snapping and travelling back through time. Notably, he killed his villains on his way back, even though his plan would mean their actions wouldn't happen anyway. He fought the main Barry, who eventually got stuck in the Speed Force, and Future Flash took his place for a while. He eventually died.
to:
* ''Franchise/TheFlash'':
''ComicBook/TheFlash'':
**ComicBook/WallyWest Wally West subverts this, thanks in large part to his CharacterDevelopment. When he took over the mantle of The Flash, the Flash in ''ComicBook/TheFlash1987'', Wally was initially quite a selfish JerkWithAHeartOfGold DeadpanSnarker looking to find a way to make a living off of heroics, but he also suffered from terrible depression and low self worth after Barry's death. However, several events (such as befriending the retired former villains The Rogues, especially the Pied Piper, and Chunk, a metahuman who accidentally caused massive property damage) showed Wally had a completely different view of supervillains, treating them with an open mind and acting more like a social worker, compared to Barry Allen who, as a police scientist, treated his heroics like cop work. Wally's subsequent Character Development had him grow out of his jaded selfishness and he became probably the most compassionate of the Flash franchise, and even more of TheCape than Barry.
** Happened to Wally West with Dark Flash, a mysterious character that turned out to be an alternate universe version of Wally who went by Walter. Unlike Walter, Wally wasn't able to save Linda Park in his equivalent of theComicBook/TerminalVelocityDCComics ''ComicBook/{{Terminal Velocity|DCComics}}'' story, and received some training under his universe's Savitar (a villain Wally defeated) before killing him. After Wally and Linda end up in his world, both were seemingly killed by Abra Kadabra, and Walter swore to avenge them. He started wearing a darker outfit and traveled to the main DC Universe. He was distrusting of other heroes and didn't reveal his identity to all but a select few, and was a bit more brutal in his methods. When Wally and Linda return, Walter is forced to leave, as he and Wally couldn't occupy the same universe for too long.
** In ''ComicBook/TheFlash2011'', Future Flash was a Barry Allen from a future timeline. He wore a blue outfit and killed his villains, because his failure to save the new Wally West resulted in him snapping and travelling back through time. Notably, he killed his villains on his way back, even though his plan would mean their actions wouldn't happen anyway. He fought the main Barry, who eventually got stuck in the Speed Force, and Future Flash took his place for a while. He eventually died.
**
** Happened to Wally West with Dark Flash, a mysterious character that turned out to be an alternate universe version of Wally who went by Walter. Unlike Walter, Wally wasn't able to save Linda Park in his equivalent of the
** In ''ComicBook/TheFlash2011'', Future Flash was a Barry Allen from a future timeline. He wore a blue outfit and killed his villains, because his failure to save the new Wally West resulted in him snapping and travelling back through time. Notably, he killed his villains on his way back, even though his plan would mean their actions wouldn't happen anyway. He fought the main Barry, who eventually got stuck in the Speed Force, and Future Flash took his place for a while. He eventually died.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Per TRS
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
*** [[CloningBlues Superboy]] came out swinging as a cheerfully-amoral UnscrupulousHero. While he was a legitimate crimefighter, he was fighting because [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatPerks being a superhero got him fame, fortune and hot chicks]]. He worked for ''Lex Luthor'', and later sold out to crooked talent scout Rex Leech, in both cases because they threw money and pretty girls at him.
to:
*** [[CloningBlues Superboy]] Superboy came out swinging as a cheerfully-amoral UnscrupulousHero. While he was a legitimate crimefighter, he was fighting because [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatPerks being a superhero got him fame, fortune and hot chicks]]. He worked for ''Lex Luthor'', and later sold out to crooked talent scout Rex Leech, in both cases because they threw money and pretty girls at him.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
* In an inverse of this trope, Franchise/GreenLantern Hal Jordan inexplicably [[FaceHeelTurn turned evil]] during the ''Emerald Twilight'' arc and the role of "original hero" as described by the intro was played by his replacement Kyle Rayner.
to:
* In an inverse of this trope, Franchise/GreenLantern Hal Jordan inexplicably [[FaceHeelTurn turned evil]] during the ''Emerald Twilight'' ''ComicBook/EmeraldTwilight'' arc and the role of "original hero" as described by the intro was played by his replacement Kyle Rayner.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 14 (click to see context) from:
** In the "Death of Superman"[=/=]"Reign of the Supermen" story arc, Superman was killed and replaced by four guys who were all across the spectrum on this:
to:
** In the "Death "[[ComicBook/TheDeathOfSuperman Death of Superman"[=/=]"Reign Superman]]"[=/=]"Reign of the Supermen" story arc, Superman was killed and replaced by four guys who were all across the spectrum on this:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
** During the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to ComicBook/{{Azrael}}, who quickly became a KnightTemplar after [[BrainwashedAndCrazy his latent brainwashing]] was accidentally triggered by Scarecrow's fear gas. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell under ComicBook/LadyShiva to fight [=AzBats=] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ComicBook/ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of ''VideoGame/BatmanDoom'', a high-quality ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}'' mod. Well, maybe a few others, since after being bounced from the Batman position [[BreakoutCharacter his solo series lasted over a hundred issues]].
to:
** During the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to ComicBook/{{Azrael}}, who quickly became a KnightTemplar after [[BrainwashedAndCrazy his latent brainwashing]] was accidentally triggered by Scarecrow's fear gas. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell under ComicBook/LadyShiva to fight [=AzBats=] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ComicBook/ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, Probably the only people that were all that thrilled with him the character becoming Batman were the makers and players of ''VideoGame/BatmanDoom'', a high-quality ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}'' mod. Well, maybe a few others, since after being bounced from However, post-''Knightfall'' the Batman position character of Azrael gathered [[BreakoutCharacter a respectable fanbase in his own right]], with a solo series that lasted over a hundred issues]].for 100 issues. The character was revived in 2015 and has regularly appeared in comics ever since.
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
** During the ''Batman and Son'' storyline, fake Batmen began showing up in Gotham City and committing crimes, and Bruce was forced to fight them. The eventual source of these was revealed to be psychological experiments conducted by the Gotham Police Department to create replacement Batmen should anything ever happen to the real one. This didn't turn out so well.
to:
** During the ''Batman and Son'' storyline, fake Batmen began showing up in Gotham City and committing crimes, and Bruce was forced to fight them. The eventual source of these was revealed to be psychological experiments conducted by the Gotham Police Department to create replacement Batmen should anything ever happen to the real one. This one – this didn't turn out so well.well. One of the replacement Batmen, Michael Lane, went on to become the second Azrael.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
** During the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar after [[BrainwashedAndCrazy his latent brainwashing]] was accidentally triggered by Scarecrow's fear gas. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell under ComicBook/LadyShiva to fight [=AzBats=] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ComicBook/ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of ''VideoGame/BatmanDoom'', a high-quality ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}'' mod. Well, maybe a few others, since after being bounced from the Batman position [[BreakoutCharacter his solo series lasted over a hundred issues]].
to:
** During the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to Azrael, ComicBook/{{Azrael}}, who quickly became a KnightTemplar after [[BrainwashedAndCrazy his latent brainwashing]] was accidentally triggered by Scarecrow's fear gas. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell under ComicBook/LadyShiva to fight [=AzBats=] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ComicBook/ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of ''VideoGame/BatmanDoom'', a high-quality ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}'' mod. Well, maybe a few others, since after being bounced from the Batman position [[BreakoutCharacter his solo series lasted over a hundred issues]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Poisonous Friend is no longer a trope
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
** Downplayed with Terry [=McGinnis=] of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'', a hotheaded, [[SnarkKnight sassy]] juvenile delinquent who originally became Batman by stealing the Batsuit, but he's as heroic as Bruce was, and more approachable than the grouchy loner Bruce. And for the record, his delinquency charge was because he was manipulated by a PoisonousFriend.
to:
** Downplayed with Terry [=McGinnis=] of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'', a hotheaded, [[SnarkKnight sassy]] juvenile delinquent who originally became Batman by stealing the Batsuit, but he's as heroic as Bruce was, and more approachable than the grouchy loner Bruce. And for the record, his delinquency charge was because he was manipulated by a PoisonousFriend.[[ToxicFriendInfluence manipulative friend]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Up To Eleven is a defunct trope
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
** Cassandra Cain as ComicBook/{{Batgirl}} seems like this at first glance: she's a silent, intimidating woman covered in scars with a DarkAndTroubledPast, who wears a costume that wouldn't be out of place in a horror movie. [[SubvertedTrope However]], it quickly becomes clear that she's [[TheCutie an absolute sweetheart]] [[TheCape who might be even more idealistic than Barbara,]] [[ThouShaltNotKill literally being willing to jump in front of an assault rifle to protect a]] ProfessionalKiller from friendly fire. Her silence is due to learning disabilities [[TykeBomb deliberately induced during her]] awful childhood, and most of her creepiness is just due to her [[NoSocialSkills complete lack of social skills]] (when she ''wants'' to intimidate people [[UpToEleven it is apparent]]).
to:
** Cassandra Cain as ComicBook/{{Batgirl}} seems like this at first glance: she's a silent, intimidating woman covered in scars with a DarkAndTroubledPast, who wears a costume that wouldn't be out of place in a horror movie. [[SubvertedTrope However]], it quickly becomes clear that she's [[TheCutie an absolute sweetheart]] [[TheCape who might be even more idealistic than Barbara,]] [[ThouShaltNotKill literally being willing to jump in front of an assault rifle to protect a]] ProfessionalKiller from friendly fire. Her silence is due to learning disabilities [[TykeBomb deliberately induced during her]] awful childhood, and most of her creepiness is just due to her [[NoSocialSkills complete lack of social skills]] (when she ''wants'' to intimidate people [[UpToEleven it is apparent]]).apparent).
Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
*** [[EmpoweredBadassNormal Man]] [[PoweredArmor of Steel]] was a complete ''inversion'' of this; if anything, he was [[UpToEleven even more heroic than the original]]. Also, unlike the other three, Steel admitted from the start he wasn't really Superman, but that he was trying to represent the spirit of what Superman stood for. He ended up getting his [[ComicBook/{{Steel}} own comic]].
to:
*** [[EmpoweredBadassNormal Man]] [[PoweredArmor of Steel]] was a complete ''inversion'' of this; if anything, he was [[UpToEleven even more heroic than the original]].original. Also, unlike the other three, Steel admitted from the start he wasn't really Superman, but that he was trying to represent the spirit of what Superman stood for. He ended up getting his [[ComicBook/{{Steel}} own comic]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
!!Franchise/TheDCU
to:
Changed line(s) 34 (click to see context) from:
** Future Flash was a Barry Allen from a future timeline. He wore a blue outfit and killed his villains, because his failure to save the new Wally West resulted in him snapping and travelling back through time. Notably, he killed his villains on his way back, even though his plan would mean their actions wouldn't happen anyway. He fought the main Barry, who eventually got stuck in the Speed Force, and Future Flash took his place for a while. He eventually died.
to:
** Future Flash was a Barry Allen from a future timeline. He wore a blue outfit and killed his villains, because his failure to save the new Wally West resulted in him snapping and travelling back through time. Notably, he killed his villains on his way back, even though his plan would mean their actions wouldn't happen anyway. He fought the main Barry, who eventually got stuck in the Speed Force, and Future Flash took his place for a while. He eventually died.died.
----
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8,11 (click to see context) from:
** Current Robin Damian Wayne is more of an AntiHero than his predecessor, but new Batman Dick Grayson has made it his goal to craft him into a true superhero and not an AntiHero.
** [[ComicBook/{{Batgirl 2000}} Cassandra Cain]] as ComicBook/{{Batgirl}} seems like this at first glance: she's a silent, intimidating woman covered in scars with a DarkAndTroubledPast, who wears a costume that wouldn't be out of place in a horror movie. [[SubvertedTrope However]], it quickly becomes clear that she's [[TheCutie an absolute sweetheart]] [[TheCape who might be even more idealistic than Barbara,]] [[ThouShaltNotKill literally being willing to jump in front of an assault rifle to protect a]] ProfessionalKiller from friendly fire. Her silence is due to learning disabilities [[TykeBomb deliberately induced during her]] awful childhood, and most of her creepiness is just due to her [[NoSocialSkills complete lack of social skills]] (when she ''wants'' to intimidate people [[UpToEleven it is apparent]]).
*** Cassandra's Batgirl outfit was previously worn by the Huntress during ''Comicbook/BatmanNoMansLand'', who played it straight.
** During the "Titans Tomorrow" arc, a potential future version of [[ComicBook/RobinSeries Tim Drake]] becomes a gun-wielding Batman.
** [[ComicBook/{{Batgirl 2000}} Cassandra Cain]] as ComicBook/{{Batgirl}} seems like this at first glance: she's a silent, intimidating woman covered in scars with a DarkAndTroubledPast, who wears a costume that wouldn't be out of place in a horror movie. [[SubvertedTrope However]], it quickly becomes clear that she's [[TheCutie an absolute sweetheart]] [[TheCape who might be even more idealistic than Barbara,]] [[ThouShaltNotKill literally being willing to jump in front of an assault rifle to protect a]] ProfessionalKiller from friendly fire. Her silence is due to learning disabilities [[TykeBomb deliberately induced during her]] awful childhood, and most of her creepiness is just due to her [[NoSocialSkills complete lack of social skills]] (when she ''wants'' to intimidate people [[UpToEleven it is apparent]]).
*** Cassandra's Batgirl outfit was previously worn by the Huntress during ''Comicbook/BatmanNoMansLand'', who played it straight.
** During the "Titans Tomorrow" arc, a potential future version of [[ComicBook/RobinSeries Tim Drake]] becomes a gun-wielding Batman.
to:
** Current Robin Damian Wayne is more of an AntiHero than his predecessor, but new Batman Dick Grayson has made it his goal to craft him into a true superhero and not an AntiHero.
**[[ComicBook/{{Batgirl 2000}} Cassandra Cain]] Cain as ComicBook/{{Batgirl}} seems like this at first glance: she's a silent, intimidating woman covered in scars with a DarkAndTroubledPast, who wears a costume that wouldn't be out of place in a horror movie. [[SubvertedTrope However]], it quickly becomes clear that she's [[TheCutie an absolute sweetheart]] [[TheCape who might be even more idealistic than Barbara,]] [[ThouShaltNotKill literally being willing to jump in front of an assault rifle to protect a]] ProfessionalKiller from friendly fire. Her silence is due to learning disabilities [[TykeBomb deliberately induced during her]] awful childhood, and most of her creepiness is just due to her [[NoSocialSkills complete lack of social skills]] (when she ''wants'' to intimidate people [[UpToEleven it is apparent]]).
*** ** Cassandra's Batgirl outfit was previously worn by the Huntress during ''Comicbook/BatmanNoMansLand'', ''ComicBook/BatmanNoMansLand'', who played it straight.
** During the"Titans Tomorrow" ''Titans Tomorrow'' arc, a potential future version of [[ComicBook/RobinSeries Tim Drake]] Drake becomes a gun-wielding Batman.
**
** During the
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
YMMV
Changed line(s) 3 (click to see context) from:
** During the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar after [[BrainwashedAndCrazy his latent brainwashing]] was accidentally triggered by Scarecrow's fear gas. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell under ComicBook/LadyShiva to fight [[FanNickname AzBats]] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ComicBook/ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of ''VideoGame/BatmanDoom'', a high-quality ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}'' mod. Well, maybe a few others, since after being bounced from the Batman position [[BreakoutCharacter his solo series lasted over a hundred issues]].
to:
** During the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar after [[BrainwashedAndCrazy his latent brainwashing]] was accidentally triggered by Scarecrow's fear gas. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell under ComicBook/LadyShiva to fight [[FanNickname AzBats]] [=AzBats=] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ComicBook/ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of ''VideoGame/BatmanDoom'', a high-quality ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}'' mod. Well, maybe a few others, since after being bounced from the Batman position [[BreakoutCharacter his solo series lasted over a hundred issues]].
Changed line(s) 33 (click to see context) from:
** Happened to Wally West with [[FanNickname Dark Flash]], a mysterious character that turned out to be an alternate universe version of Wally who went by Walter. Unlike Walter, Wally wasn't able to save Linda Park in his equivalent of the ComicBook/TerminalVelocityDCComics story, and received some training under his universe's Savitar (a villain Wally defeated) before killing him. After Wally and Linda end up in his world, both were seemingly killed by Abra Kadabra, and Walter swore to avenge them. He started wearing a darker outfit and traveled to the main DC Universe. He was distrusting of other heroes and didn't reveal his identity to all but a select few, and was a bit more brutal in his methods. When Wally and Linda return, Walter is forced to leave, as he and Wally couldn't occupy the same universe for too long.
to:
** Happened to Wally West with [[FanNickname Dark Flash]], Flash, a mysterious character that turned out to be an alternate universe version of Wally who went by Walter. Unlike Walter, Wally wasn't able to save Linda Park in his equivalent of the ComicBook/TerminalVelocityDCComics story, and received some training under his universe's Savitar (a villain Wally defeated) before killing him. After Wally and Linda end up in his world, both were seemingly killed by Abra Kadabra, and Walter swore to avenge them. He started wearing a darker outfit and traveled to the main DC Universe. He was distrusting of other heroes and didn't reveal his identity to all but a select few, and was a bit more brutal in his methods. When Wally and Linda return, Walter is forced to leave, as he and Wally couldn't occupy the same universe for too long.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
** While Terry [=McGinnis=] of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'' has most of the heroic qualities of the original, the series premise of a hot-headed SnarkKnight and former juvenile delinquent stepping into Bruce's place after the latter's retirement is very much in line with this trope.
to:
** While Downplayed with Terry [=McGinnis=] of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'' has most of the heroic qualities of the original, the series premise of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'', a hot-headed SnarkKnight and former hotheaded, [[SnarkKnight sassy]] juvenile delinquent stepping into Bruce's place after who originally became Batman by stealing the latter's retirement is very much in line with this trope.Batsuit, but he's as heroic as Bruce was, and more approachable than the grouchy loner Bruce. And for the record, his delinquency charge was because he was manipulated by a PoisonousFriend.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 33 (click to see context) from:
** Happened to Wally West with [[FanNickname Dark Flash]], a mysterious character that turned out to be an alternate universe version of Wally who went by Walter. Unlike Walter, Wally wasn't able to save Linda Park in his equivalent of the ComicBook/TerminalVelocity story, and received some training under his universe's Savitar (a villain Wally defeated) before killing him. After Wally and Linda end up in his world, both were seemingly killed by Abra Kadabra, and Walter swore to avenge them. He started wearing a darker outfit and traveled to the main DC Universe. He was distrusting of other heroes and didn't reveal his identity to all but a select few, and was a bit more brutal in his methods. When Wally and Linda return, Walter is forced to leave, as he and Wally couldn't occupy the same universe for too long.
to:
** Happened to Wally West with [[FanNickname Dark Flash]], a mysterious character that turned out to be an alternate universe version of Wally who went by Walter. Unlike Walter, Wally wasn't able to save Linda Park in his equivalent of the ComicBook/TerminalVelocity ComicBook/TerminalVelocityDCComics story, and received some training under his universe's Savitar (a villain Wally defeated) before killing him. After Wally and Linda end up in his world, both were seemingly killed by Abra Kadabra, and Walter swore to avenge them. He started wearing a darker outfit and traveled to the main DC Universe. He was distrusting of other heroes and didn't reveal his identity to all but a select few, and was a bit more brutal in his methods. When Wally and Linda return, Walter is forced to leave, as he and Wally couldn't occupy the same universe for too long.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
!!Franchise/TheDCU
* This happens to Franchise/{{Batman}} a lot:
** During the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar after [[BrainwashedAndCrazy his latent brainwashing]] was accidentally triggered by Scarecrow's fear gas. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell under ComicBook/LadyShiva to fight [[FanNickname AzBats]] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ComicBook/ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of ''VideoGame/BatmanDoom'', a high-quality ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}'' mod. Well, maybe a few others, since after being bounced from the Batman position [[BreakoutCharacter his solo series lasted over a hundred issues]].
** Cheerful and lovable circus brat Dick Grayson was replaced by cheerful and lovable circus brat Jason Todd in the early 80s. Then, post-Crisis, in a rare case of a character being replaced by an AntiHero version ''of himself,'' Jason Todd was retcon'd into an eleven-year-old street kid who jacked the wheels off the Batmobile.
** Following his death and resurrection, he also spent a bit of time as a psychopathic version of ComicBook/{{Nightwing}}. Then, during the ''Battle for the Cowl'' event, Jason would also take up the mantle of Batman after [[spoiler: his apparent death]] and became a gun-wielding psychopath. He was played as the villain of the story, however.
** During the aforementioned ''Battle for the Cowl'', Two-Face also attempted to become the next Batman and Hush impersonated Bruce Wayne with the help of MagicPlasticSurgery.
** During the ''Batman and Son'' storyline, fake Batmen began showing up in Gotham City and committing crimes, and Bruce was forced to fight them. The eventual source of these was revealed to be psychological experiments conducted by the Gotham Police Department to create replacement Batmen should anything ever happen to the real one. This didn't turn out so well.
** Current Robin Damian Wayne is more of an AntiHero than his predecessor, but new Batman Dick Grayson has made it his goal to craft him into a true superhero and not an AntiHero.
** [[ComicBook/{{Batgirl 2000}} Cassandra Cain]] as ComicBook/{{Batgirl}} seems like this at first glance: she's a silent, intimidating woman covered in scars with a DarkAndTroubledPast, who wears a costume that wouldn't be out of place in a horror movie. [[SubvertedTrope However]], it quickly becomes clear that she's [[TheCutie an absolute sweetheart]] [[TheCape who might be even more idealistic than Barbara,]] [[ThouShaltNotKill literally being willing to jump in front of an assault rifle to protect a]] ProfessionalKiller from friendly fire. Her silence is due to learning disabilities [[TykeBomb deliberately induced during her]] awful childhood, and most of her creepiness is just due to her [[NoSocialSkills complete lack of social skills]] (when she ''wants'' to intimidate people [[UpToEleven it is apparent]]).
*** Cassandra's Batgirl outfit was previously worn by the Huntress during ''Comicbook/BatmanNoMansLand'', who played it straight.
** During the "Titans Tomorrow" arc, a potential future version of [[ComicBook/RobinSeries Tim Drake]] becomes a gun-wielding Batman.
** While Terry [=McGinnis=] of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'' has most of the heroic qualities of the original, the series premise of a hot-headed SnarkKnight and former juvenile delinquent stepping into Bruce's place after the latter's retirement is very much in line with this trope.
* Franchise/{{Superman}}:
** In the "Death of Superman"[=/=]"Reign of the Supermen" story arc, Superman was killed and replaced by four guys who were all across the spectrum on this:
*** [[EmpoweredBadassNormal Man]] [[PoweredArmor of Steel]] was a complete ''inversion'' of this; if anything, he was [[UpToEleven even more heroic than the original]]. Also, unlike the other three, Steel admitted from the start he wasn't really Superman, but that he was trying to represent the spirit of what Superman stood for. He ended up getting his [[ComicBook/{{Steel}} own comic]].
*** [[CloningBlues Superboy]] came out swinging as a cheerfully-amoral UnscrupulousHero. While he was a legitimate crimefighter, he was fighting because [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatPerks being a superhero got him fame, fortune and hot chicks]]. He worked for ''Lex Luthor'', and later sold out to crooked talent scout Rex Leech, in both cases because they threw money and pretty girls at him.
*** [[NinetiesAntiHero Last Son]] [[LegacyCharacter of Krypton]], aka the Eradicator, was the real Anti-Hero Substitute. He was initially a brutal, inhuman vigilante, and it took a talk with Steel for him to mature into a more heroic figure. Even then, he remained ruthlessly logical and had few qualms about killing.
*** [[CyberneticsEatYourSoul Cyborg]] [[EvilCounterpart Superman]] wasn't really even an anti-hero, turning out to be EvilAllAlong.
** While neither passed themselves off as Superman, both [[ComicBook/KingdomCome Magog]] and [[Franchise/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica Proteus]] tried to usurp his position as the DCU's foremost superhero by being more ruthless, aggressive and proactive. Both were deliberately set up to fail; Magog went too far and Proteus was evil from the start.
** Also, in the ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'' mini-arc 'Hereafter', after Superman vanishes from the face of the planet after Toyman manages to pull of a successful attack on him, '''''Lobo''''', of all people, tries to step in as his replacement.
* ''Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}'':
** The original Supergirl -a classic Cape- was killed in the ''Comicbook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' and replaced with Matrix, a shape-shifter mass of protoplasmic matter who took shape of a blond woman wearing a female version of Superman's costume for unexplained reasons. Matrix was unpredictable, prone to sudden outbursts of violence, and wore a {{Stripperific}}, spiky version of her costume for a while. To sum up, DC replaced [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/2a/7f/5b/2a7f5bfad3d75f836a24e71da0ad5655.jpg Kara Zor-El]] with [[http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/4/34957-5263-39047-1-supergirl.jpg this]].
** Later on, Matrix merged with a troubled human girl named Linda Danvers. [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/18/86/37/188637e318e00ef52ae2f2fb10812766.jpg Linda]] was also replaced with [[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Cir-El.jpg Cir-El]], a black-wearing, angry, angsty edgy teenager with a dark and troubled past. Cir-El was very unpopular, and she was soon replaced with a modern version of Kara Zor-El, who was also initially more abrasive and angsty than her pre-Crisis version - this was unpopular with fans and was eventually retconned as due to chronic Kryptonite poisoning, thus restoring her more idealistic and happy personality and finally inverting the trope.
* In ''ComicBook/WonderWoman1987'': ''ComicBook/TheContest'' Franchise/WonderWoman was forced to give up her name and costume because her mother had a vision of her death. Her place was taken by ComicBook/{{Artemis}}, but in the end it was she who was killed, not Diana. The trope was also deconstructed, as Artemis's arrogant, abrasive and often overly violent conduct in the role undid a lot of Diana's hard work in getting Man's World to accept her and the Amazons and rubbed many of Diana's former allies up the wrong way, thus making things much more difficult for her than they had to be.
** This was essentially [[RecycledScript an update of an older story]] from [[ComicBook/WonderWoman1942 the 70's]], wherein Diana was briefly replaced as Wonder Woman by an abrasive redheaded Amazon named Orana. Orana was KilledOffForReal the very next issue, allowing Diana to reclaim her costume and identity.
* In an inverse of this trope, Franchise/GreenLantern Hal Jordan inexplicably [[FaceHeelTurn turned evil]] during the ''Emerald Twilight'' arc and the role of "original hero" as described by the intro was played by his replacement Kyle Rayner.
** Played straight, however, was Guy Gardner replacing Hal Jordan in 1985. To clarify: Guy Gardner is not some crazy killing machine or anything (unless you count the Warrior storylines where he's a living weapon); he just has more of a fly-off-half-cocked, kick-butt-take-names, punch-first-ask-questions-later personality than Hal.) He's the gym teacher everyone despised in high school.
*** While Guy fits, he technically didn't replace Hal. Hal resigned to spend more time with his girlfriend (who subsequently became a more psychotic version of Star Sapphire) and was replaced by John Stewart as Earth's GL. Later, during Crisis on Infinite Earths, a faction of the Guardians healed Guy from a coma and gave him a ring and mission. By the end of that mission, Hal was a Green Lantern again.
* Happened, of all people, to ComicBook/TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of {{Nineties Anti Hero}}es. For many people Authority are a bunch of {{Jerkass}}ses at best and {{Villain Protagonist}}s at worst, but comparing to replacements they look like fricking saints.
** [[spoiler:Of course, the second the real Authority comes back, they start their revenge by killing in cold blood the ''only'' redeemable character among the new team: Rush, the Canadian replacement for Swift, who didn't kill anybody they wouldn't have and hated all her teammates. They catch hell for this later.]]
* ''Franchise/TheFlash'':
** ComicBook/WallyWest subverts this, thanks in large part to his CharacterDevelopment. When he took over the mantle of The Flash, Wally was initially quite a selfish JerkWithAHeartOfGold DeadpanSnarker looking to find a way to make a living off of heroics, but he also suffered from terrible depression and low self worth after Barry's death. However, several events (such as befriending the retired former villains The Rogues, especially the Pied Piper, and Chunk, a metahuman who accidentally caused massive property damage) showed Wally had a completely different view of supervillains, treating them with an open mind and acting more like a social worker, compared to Barry Allen who, as a police scientist, treated his heroics like cop work. Wally's subsequent Character Development had him grow out of his jaded selfishness and he became probably the most compassionate of the Flash franchise, and even more of TheCape than Barry.
** Happened to Wally West with [[FanNickname Dark Flash]], a mysterious character that turned out to be an alternate universe version of Wally who went by Walter. Unlike Walter, Wally wasn't able to save Linda Park in his equivalent of the ComicBook/TerminalVelocity story, and received some training under his universe's Savitar (a villain Wally defeated) before killing him. After Wally and Linda end up in his world, both were seemingly killed by Abra Kadabra, and Walter swore to avenge them. He started wearing a darker outfit and traveled to the main DC Universe. He was distrusting of other heroes and didn't reveal his identity to all but a select few, and was a bit more brutal in his methods. When Wally and Linda return, Walter is forced to leave, as he and Wally couldn't occupy the same universe for too long.
** Future Flash was a Barry Allen from a future timeline. He wore a blue outfit and killed his villains, because his failure to save the new Wally West resulted in him snapping and travelling back through time. Notably, he killed his villains on his way back, even though his plan would mean their actions wouldn't happen anyway. He fought the main Barry, who eventually got stuck in the Speed Force, and Future Flash took his place for a while. He eventually died.
* This happens to Franchise/{{Batman}} a lot:
** During the ''Comicbook/{{Knightfall}}'' story arc, Batman was temporarily paralyzed by Bane and gave his cowl to Azrael, who quickly became a KnightTemplar after [[BrainwashedAndCrazy his latent brainwashing]] was accidentally triggered by Scarecrow's fear gas. This forced Batman to undergo TrainingFromHell under ComicBook/LadyShiva to fight [[FanNickname AzBats]] and reclaim his old identity. [=AzBats=] turned out to be a deliberate TakeThat at the fans who wanted Batman to be closer to ComicBook/ThePunisher than, well, Batman. ("You wanted Needlessly Violent Batman? There you go!") As it turns out, the only people that were all that thrilled with him were the makers and players of ''VideoGame/BatmanDoom'', a high-quality ''VideoGame/{{Doom}}'' mod. Well, maybe a few others, since after being bounced from the Batman position [[BreakoutCharacter his solo series lasted over a hundred issues]].
** Cheerful and lovable circus brat Dick Grayson was replaced by cheerful and lovable circus brat Jason Todd in the early 80s. Then, post-Crisis, in a rare case of a character being replaced by an AntiHero version ''of himself,'' Jason Todd was retcon'd into an eleven-year-old street kid who jacked the wheels off the Batmobile.
** Following his death and resurrection, he also spent a bit of time as a psychopathic version of ComicBook/{{Nightwing}}. Then, during the ''Battle for the Cowl'' event, Jason would also take up the mantle of Batman after [[spoiler: his apparent death]] and became a gun-wielding psychopath. He was played as the villain of the story, however.
** During the aforementioned ''Battle for the Cowl'', Two-Face also attempted to become the next Batman and Hush impersonated Bruce Wayne with the help of MagicPlasticSurgery.
** During the ''Batman and Son'' storyline, fake Batmen began showing up in Gotham City and committing crimes, and Bruce was forced to fight them. The eventual source of these was revealed to be psychological experiments conducted by the Gotham Police Department to create replacement Batmen should anything ever happen to the real one. This didn't turn out so well.
** Current Robin Damian Wayne is more of an AntiHero than his predecessor, but new Batman Dick Grayson has made it his goal to craft him into a true superhero and not an AntiHero.
** [[ComicBook/{{Batgirl 2000}} Cassandra Cain]] as ComicBook/{{Batgirl}} seems like this at first glance: she's a silent, intimidating woman covered in scars with a DarkAndTroubledPast, who wears a costume that wouldn't be out of place in a horror movie. [[SubvertedTrope However]], it quickly becomes clear that she's [[TheCutie an absolute sweetheart]] [[TheCape who might be even more idealistic than Barbara,]] [[ThouShaltNotKill literally being willing to jump in front of an assault rifle to protect a]] ProfessionalKiller from friendly fire. Her silence is due to learning disabilities [[TykeBomb deliberately induced during her]] awful childhood, and most of her creepiness is just due to her [[NoSocialSkills complete lack of social skills]] (when she ''wants'' to intimidate people [[UpToEleven it is apparent]]).
*** Cassandra's Batgirl outfit was previously worn by the Huntress during ''Comicbook/BatmanNoMansLand'', who played it straight.
** During the "Titans Tomorrow" arc, a potential future version of [[ComicBook/RobinSeries Tim Drake]] becomes a gun-wielding Batman.
** While Terry [=McGinnis=] of ''WesternAnimation/BatmanBeyond'' has most of the heroic qualities of the original, the series premise of a hot-headed SnarkKnight and former juvenile delinquent stepping into Bruce's place after the latter's retirement is very much in line with this trope.
* Franchise/{{Superman}}:
** In the "Death of Superman"[=/=]"Reign of the Supermen" story arc, Superman was killed and replaced by four guys who were all across the spectrum on this:
*** [[EmpoweredBadassNormal Man]] [[PoweredArmor of Steel]] was a complete ''inversion'' of this; if anything, he was [[UpToEleven even more heroic than the original]]. Also, unlike the other three, Steel admitted from the start he wasn't really Superman, but that he was trying to represent the spirit of what Superman stood for. He ended up getting his [[ComicBook/{{Steel}} own comic]].
*** [[CloningBlues Superboy]] came out swinging as a cheerfully-amoral UnscrupulousHero. While he was a legitimate crimefighter, he was fighting because [[WithGreatPowerComesGreatPerks being a superhero got him fame, fortune and hot chicks]]. He worked for ''Lex Luthor'', and later sold out to crooked talent scout Rex Leech, in both cases because they threw money and pretty girls at him.
*** [[NinetiesAntiHero Last Son]] [[LegacyCharacter of Krypton]], aka the Eradicator, was the real Anti-Hero Substitute. He was initially a brutal, inhuman vigilante, and it took a talk with Steel for him to mature into a more heroic figure. Even then, he remained ruthlessly logical and had few qualms about killing.
*** [[CyberneticsEatYourSoul Cyborg]] [[EvilCounterpart Superman]] wasn't really even an anti-hero, turning out to be EvilAllAlong.
** While neither passed themselves off as Superman, both [[ComicBook/KingdomCome Magog]] and [[Franchise/JusticeLeagueOfAmerica Proteus]] tried to usurp his position as the DCU's foremost superhero by being more ruthless, aggressive and proactive. Both were deliberately set up to fail; Magog went too far and Proteus was evil from the start.
** Also, in the ''WesternAnimation/JusticeLeague'' mini-arc 'Hereafter', after Superman vanishes from the face of the planet after Toyman manages to pull of a successful attack on him, '''''Lobo''''', of all people, tries to step in as his replacement.
* ''Comicbook/{{Supergirl}}'':
** The original Supergirl -a classic Cape- was killed in the ''Comicbook/CrisisOnInfiniteEarths'' and replaced with Matrix, a shape-shifter mass of protoplasmic matter who took shape of a blond woman wearing a female version of Superman's costume for unexplained reasons. Matrix was unpredictable, prone to sudden outbursts of violence, and wore a {{Stripperific}}, spiky version of her costume for a while. To sum up, DC replaced [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/2a/7f/5b/2a7f5bfad3d75f836a24e71da0ad5655.jpg Kara Zor-El]] with [[http://static3.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_small/0/4/34957-5263-39047-1-supergirl.jpg this]].
** Later on, Matrix merged with a troubled human girl named Linda Danvers. [[https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/18/86/37/188637e318e00ef52ae2f2fb10812766.jpg Linda]] was also replaced with [[https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Cir-El.jpg Cir-El]], a black-wearing, angry, angsty edgy teenager with a dark and troubled past. Cir-El was very unpopular, and she was soon replaced with a modern version of Kara Zor-El, who was also initially more abrasive and angsty than her pre-Crisis version - this was unpopular with fans and was eventually retconned as due to chronic Kryptonite poisoning, thus restoring her more idealistic and happy personality and finally inverting the trope.
* In ''ComicBook/WonderWoman1987'': ''ComicBook/TheContest'' Franchise/WonderWoman was forced to give up her name and costume because her mother had a vision of her death. Her place was taken by ComicBook/{{Artemis}}, but in the end it was she who was killed, not Diana. The trope was also deconstructed, as Artemis's arrogant, abrasive and often overly violent conduct in the role undid a lot of Diana's hard work in getting Man's World to accept her and the Amazons and rubbed many of Diana's former allies up the wrong way, thus making things much more difficult for her than they had to be.
** This was essentially [[RecycledScript an update of an older story]] from [[ComicBook/WonderWoman1942 the 70's]], wherein Diana was briefly replaced as Wonder Woman by an abrasive redheaded Amazon named Orana. Orana was KilledOffForReal the very next issue, allowing Diana to reclaim her costume and identity.
* In an inverse of this trope, Franchise/GreenLantern Hal Jordan inexplicably [[FaceHeelTurn turned evil]] during the ''Emerald Twilight'' arc and the role of "original hero" as described by the intro was played by his replacement Kyle Rayner.
** Played straight, however, was Guy Gardner replacing Hal Jordan in 1985. To clarify: Guy Gardner is not some crazy killing machine or anything (unless you count the Warrior storylines where he's a living weapon); he just has more of a fly-off-half-cocked, kick-butt-take-names, punch-first-ask-questions-later personality than Hal.) He's the gym teacher everyone despised in high school.
*** While Guy fits, he technically didn't replace Hal. Hal resigned to spend more time with his girlfriend (who subsequently became a more psychotic version of Star Sapphire) and was replaced by John Stewart as Earth's GL. Later, during Crisis on Infinite Earths, a faction of the Guardians healed Guy from a coma and gave him a ring and mission. By the end of that mission, Hal was a Green Lantern again.
* Happened, of all people, to ComicBook/TheAuthority once, when they were defeated by G8's agent and replaced with bunch of {{Nineties Anti Hero}}es. For many people Authority are a bunch of {{Jerkass}}ses at best and {{Villain Protagonist}}s at worst, but comparing to replacements they look like fricking saints.
** [[spoiler:Of course, the second the real Authority comes back, they start their revenge by killing in cold blood the ''only'' redeemable character among the new team: Rush, the Canadian replacement for Swift, who didn't kill anybody they wouldn't have and hated all her teammates. They catch hell for this later.]]
* ''Franchise/TheFlash'':
** ComicBook/WallyWest subverts this, thanks in large part to his CharacterDevelopment. When he took over the mantle of The Flash, Wally was initially quite a selfish JerkWithAHeartOfGold DeadpanSnarker looking to find a way to make a living off of heroics, but he also suffered from terrible depression and low self worth after Barry's death. However, several events (such as befriending the retired former villains The Rogues, especially the Pied Piper, and Chunk, a metahuman who accidentally caused massive property damage) showed Wally had a completely different view of supervillains, treating them with an open mind and acting more like a social worker, compared to Barry Allen who, as a police scientist, treated his heroics like cop work. Wally's subsequent Character Development had him grow out of his jaded selfishness and he became probably the most compassionate of the Flash franchise, and even more of TheCape than Barry.
** Happened to Wally West with [[FanNickname Dark Flash]], a mysterious character that turned out to be an alternate universe version of Wally who went by Walter. Unlike Walter, Wally wasn't able to save Linda Park in his equivalent of the ComicBook/TerminalVelocity story, and received some training under his universe's Savitar (a villain Wally defeated) before killing him. After Wally and Linda end up in his world, both were seemingly killed by Abra Kadabra, and Walter swore to avenge them. He started wearing a darker outfit and traveled to the main DC Universe. He was distrusting of other heroes and didn't reveal his identity to all but a select few, and was a bit more brutal in his methods. When Wally and Linda return, Walter is forced to leave, as he and Wally couldn't occupy the same universe for too long.
** Future Flash was a Barry Allen from a future timeline. He wore a blue outfit and killed his villains, because his failure to save the new Wally West resulted in him snapping and travelling back through time. Notably, he killed his villains on his way back, even though his plan would mean their actions wouldn't happen anyway. He fought the main Barry, who eventually got stuck in the Speed Force, and Future Flash took his place for a while. He eventually died.
