This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Removed "Sweden and Finland taking care of Sealand together, even though they had been separated for almost one hundred and fourty [sic] years when Sealand was founded." from the main page. Nothing shows that Finland has anything to do with Sealand's care. (And besides, who says Sweden and Finland don't just live together out of habit/enjoying each others' company anyway?)
You'd think they'd all be schizos eh?
In fanworks I see a lot of images of America pointing a gun at Japan. Assuming this represents the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, I find this extremely clever. But is this an idea from Himaruya himself (I haven't seen this in any of the comics - if America has pointed a gun at Japan just once in the comic, could someone show me?), or is this a fan idea that's been passed around a lot, like GDR!Gilbert?
Barano: As far as I'm aware it's just a fandom idea that's gotten popular because of its dramatic symbolism. (AFAIK Himaruya hasn't mentioned the atomic bombs in the comics.)
Why does it say that everyone thought Chibi!Italia was a girl? I've seen no evidence of this, though admitedly I'm not quite done my Archive Binge yet. Could it actually be a case of Pronoun Trouble with the English translation? (I'm reading it in Japanese). If so, then the trope should be deleted/edited.
Anon: I am pretty sure that it WAS confirmed that at least HRE thought Chibitalia was a girl, but it's also a case of pronoun trouble. I can only read the English translations on the Live Journal community, but in one scanlation/translation someone translated some questions and answers to Himaruya. One of those questions was if HRE thought Italy was a girl or not. In the translation, Himaruya responded that HRE did indeed think that Italy was a girl, which is why he was so shy around him.
Where can I find this? It sounds awesome!
Weasel Pants 747: This sounds like one of the worst things ever created by a formerly respectable nation.
Barano: Your Mileage May Vary. Also, way to blame the entire nation. (But then I suppose hating on this series is one of the cool things to do nowadays.)
Gawkish Girl: Yes, I'm sure the entire Japanese population gathered together just to make this comic.
Marionetta: If you don't like something, you don't have to blame an entire country for it. Also, way to be a jerk and post this at the top when the page goes in descending order.
Anonymous: And for one thing, the guy lives in New York City.
Anonymous: Kiku Honda would like to have you know that he is still a respectable Nation.
Marionetta: Ha, I forgot to put "he" instead of "she" in She Is All Grown Up. Thanks whoever fixed that, I was only half awake and just got out of class.
Don Quigleone: All this in just 6 or so days! Man that's Wiki Magic for you, I'd love it there was an Ireland character :(. He could be obsessed with potatoes, and be a priest.
Marionetta: Sounds like a fun guy, what would his actual/human name be? It'd be nice in my opinion to have a Mexico-tan. For the page, I think we should have picture up or something. What's a nice group picture...?
Don Quigleone: Hmm, Patrick O'Brian? Or maybe Paddy O'Brian? O'Brian/O'Brien is real common here, and paddy is self explanatory, he could just be Paddy the irish man. His traits would be: Love of potatoes, particularly Chips, Drinking of prodigious amounts of alcohol, having worse taste in food than England. He could be a red head. Could also be a priest, possibly. Hates England, gets along fairly well with France, Spain, Italy and Poland (maybe), somewhat well with germany as well. Maybe there should also be a Vatican-kun? He could also get along with him. America thinks he's his brother, and is always visiting him and looking for leprauchauns in his garden.
Aoede: Would this be an amalgamation of the Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland? If the two get separate characters, can one of them be female, just to even up the ratio? D:
- Tdemon: I hate how merchandising calls England the UK, because many people use it as an argument as to why there shouldn't be an Ireland character. Which either way is wrong, because of the Republic... Anyway, if England has an older brother named Scotland, it should have Ireland as a younger brother. At least the Republic should come into play. The relationships that could be played there would be amazing!
- Barano: Uh, the merchandising calls him the UK because he is the UK. He's England but he also represents the UK - because of his historical dominance, population number, what have you. I don't know why this would mean that Ireland doesn't exist - it's not the merchandising's fault that people are stupid. By the way, it's established that England is the youngest of his brothers wich means Ireland (if he's one of the brothers) is older than him. As it should be.
- Ouroboros: On that note I really want to see Australia as a character. It would be *interesting* to see his relationship with Japan.
Marionetta: I love it when people talk about ideas for countries that haven't been made yet. If there was a Native America character he would be a casino owner, ramble about the Great Spirit and the Four Directions, and live in the middle of nowhere on a rez. Perhaps he would be really into nature and talk to animals and spew proverbs. (This is sounding like my grandmother ha.)
- Crossfrown: I made a Native Canada to help with social studies, and Native America is his smarter, more spiritual, and hardworking brother. This reminds me that I need to draw them more.
Andrew X: I'd like to see a Mexico character too! I wonder if his relationship with Spain would be similar to America's relationship with England.
Facky: Why does no one ever mention Portugal? That is the one thing that messes with me. That and Iraq.
Wizard Joni: If I've understood Shotacon right, shouldn't Sealand be under the same entry?
Marionetta: I'm not sure what it really is, but in the entry here it seems that it's talking about the characters with a fetish for younger boys, not the Cute Shotaro Boy (which I think he is?) Ah I dunno. I'm off to go celebrate.
Wizard Joni: You're right. I had totally forgotten about the Cute Shotaro Boy trope.
Marionetta: Aw, why did Insane Invention get deleted? Would It Runs on Nonsensoleum be a good replacement for America's weird inventions?
Silvard: Snipped out the conversation in Yaoi Fangirl and modified the entry to reduce conversation.
- Yaoi Fangirl: Hungary loves nothing more than watching men having sex. Even if it's her husband. (Which saves her from the Die for Our Ship bashing she'd normally get...)
- We don't see much Die for Our Ship in Hetalia fandom, actually.
- Yeah, but considering how terribly vicious Yaoi Fangirls can be, once would think she'd be the primary target. Since Hungary is a Ninja Maid whose fangirling makes her an easy Otaku Surrogate *and* the fandom isn't as big as others, she's escaped unscathed so far, but this might be subjected to change later as the Western fandom grows.
- True, true. That's how fandom works. Poor girl.
- Yeah. I already fear for Belarus, with her knife and her Yandereness. =(
- I can already see all the Seychelles-bashing, since she looks like a nice upbeat girl who is also the star of Gakuen Hetalia.
- This troper would like it if we could wait on the hand wringing until bashing actually happens.
- Shutting up nao. I admit it was fun while it lasted. =P
- Well, yes, I suppose it's best to stay optimistic.
- We don't see much Die for Our Ship in Hetalia fandom, actually.
Marionetta: I like how someone edited the page to draw attention to the gender-inverted tropes, heh heh.
Silvard: Snipped out the following from the Die for Our Ship entry since it doesn't quite fit the trope. Someone can restore it if they want.
Marionetta: Whoa, that's a lot of tropes.
Kizor: Moved this to discussion since it's discussion.
Orihime: Question! Is This Troper the only one who wonders if Russia is starting to become a Draco in Leather Pants?
Barano: Most people like him because he's psychotic, and they're not trying to whitewash him. Besides, just my two cents, but in this case Draco in Leather Pants is a bit iffy. In canon, none of the countries are portrayed as "downright villainous," not even Russia (his evilness is mostly just a running gag - it's a comedy, remember? it's usually only fanworks that take certain aspects of it and treat them seriously). And if we want to take this more seriously than even the author himself, we're talking about personifications of actual countries/nations - I'm not sure how the trope could apply to them.
Astra Sage: Three things for the troper who labeled Czechoslovakia as a death country in Older Than They Look, 1) It seems the only way a nation could "die" is if there were no longer traces of its original culture, from what can be infered from the Canon (Specially in the strips where Greece talk about his late mother), 2) Czechoslovakia was more a Commonwealth which splitted later into the Czech Republic and Slovakia, so it'd be more like two characters by the price of a country, and 3) Thanks for mentioning an OC-tan in the main entry...
Marionetta: Are we Overdosed yet?
Charred Knight: Not even close
Marionetta: Dang.
Silvard: Give it time. We're about half way there, and when the anime is released, I imagine that the examples will sky rocket.
Marionetta: I have another question! Does it seem like the way the characters' physical build is drawn has changed? I kinda thought the characters were looking younger and younger, especially concerning the main chapters and the later strips. But it might be just me.
Barano: That can be chalked up to Art Evolution. I haven't noticed them looking any younger, though... (More moe, maybe.)
Trouser Wearing Barbarian: After hearing so much about this series on TV tropes, I decided to look it up out of curiousity. I ended up reading the entire translated archive in one night. TV Tropes Will Ruin Your Life, eh?
Marionetta: Erm, sorry for constantly talking here, but I have a random thought. The term "sweding" seems to be used sometimes. The translators are a bit confused, but I think I randomly came across a link on Hidekaz's blog that had to do with "Be Kind Rewind" ("sweding" meant making the movie). Maybe that is the connection? Or just me.
Cassy: Wow... I don't know if this looks really cool and instructive or horrible and of really bad taste... BTW, it really reminds me of Afuganisu-tan, which I thoughbt was terrible (I did learn a few things about Afghan history, though).
Marionetta: Oh no, I don't think it's too much like it... there is a similarity in the basic concept, it's not like Afghanis-tan like trivializing Hiroshima, the Holocaust or Pearl Harbor or anything. (and just so I can say, I've had relatives in the Bataan Death March, so yeah) Certainly people think that it's making WWII like a joke, but the author of Hetalia is much more tactful in what he chooses to illustrate and how he chooses to show it. Not only that, but even though the idea started out of WWII, a lot of it has to do with other stuff that isn't even that controversial. I have found myself more interested in world history, other cultures, foreign relations and world news because of it. Plus, it doesn't want to show anyone as a real bad guy, I find myself unable to hate any character, which led me to see that I can't really hate any country as a whole. Also, the awesome fanworks, which reminds me we should have a fic recs page /gush
Not everyone will come around to like it for many reasons though, and that's understandable. I'm a kind of person who cries her eyes out at Saving Private Ryan or Glory (and every war movie) but laughs her ass off at Hogan's Heroes and Tropic Thunder. Okay, I should shut up now.
Hieronymus: The countries are more stereotypes of governments rather than people, for one thing. Russia doesn't resemble any Russian stereotype I know, just that nations historically brutal leaders. Also, the main cast is European, so since the author is from the other side of the world, the treatment is fairly even-handed. However, I wish the strip didn't make Korea out to be such a Jerkass. And yet China comes off just fine, so apart from that I'm not that worried. Like the page says, it's a soap opera for World History Majors.
Marionetta: Aw, I don't think they made Korea a jerk. (I mean, he's a family kind of guy in his description. I personally think the supposedly polite Japan is kinda a secret Jerkass.) In the most recent strip, I think Im Yun Soo is adorable and a bit different from his earlier appearances.
And Russia fulfills a stereotype of "drinking vodka like water", but not when others are around I suppose (also from character profiles)
Damn, I should really stop talking here. (I just can't help it though.)
Ariel Moon: I disgree with Hieronymus there. More often than not, the most stereotypes do come from people based on tourists. Russia fulfills several American stereotypes of Russians IMO (big, sinister and all that jazz.). But I think we have to take into consideration that the Nation-tans' personality isn't completely made up of national stereotypes as well. Like Russia's childishness has no historic annotation as far as I know of although America's can be explained away by him being a young nation.
Barano: "In the fandom, England is frequently portrayed as [a shotacon]." - Is he? I've never seen him portrayed as having a thing for young boys. And while I've seen one fanwork where he's, uh, "interested" in young America, in my experience that's the rare exception and not the rule.
Ariel Moon: If you go to, uh, other aspects of the fandom (*cough*Kink Meme*cough*), there are fanworks that depicts England as a shotacon with not only America, but Canada, Hong Kong and Sealand as well.
Silvard: Is there a trope regarding accents? I'm thinking specifically of how almost every character talks in a different kind of Japanese accent, and the two tropes that cover Japanese accents don't seem to fit.
Barano: There are entries about German, Chinese, British and American dialects... I suppose we should wait until someone writes an entry about Japanese dialects.
Marionetta: Someone put Canada as Ensemble Dark Horse on the western side? And not America, who ranks so much higher in popularity and is not one of the main three? That makes me wonder if America should count as one, because he's second in popularity in the west but also portrayed as the "leader" of the Allies often. Would that make him a secondary character, or a main character?
Barano: I don't understand the entire Ensemble Dark Horse entry. I mean, England and Russia are main characters. I thought Ensemble Dark Horse was about a minor character being very popular. I think Prussia (who even has a mini meme on his own in the Japanese fandom), Hungary and Belarus are much more likely candidates for both sides of fandom.
Marionetta: True, true. Huh, perhaps someone should rewrite that entry. *looks around* ... yeah.
Barano: Done.
Marionetta: Hey guys, you think we should have a character sheet?
Hieronymus: Scrolling through all the examples is getting lengthy. I'd do it myself but I have no idea how, I'll admit.
Orihime: Gimme a bit of time and I'll make it. =D
Hieronymus: What are the boundaries here? Is a love triangle a character trope, or is that plot? And is Alternate Character Interpretation a fandom trope? Also, have I divided the character page up correctly?
Silvard: The character sheet looks really messy and is a bit hard to follow. Maybe it should just have a list of characters and the tropes that apply to them (and maybe remove the pictures).
Barano: I agree, the chara sheet is pretty messy. Maybe we should give it a rest? It's not like we're Trope Overdosed yet...
Marionetta: Well, um, it seemed like a good idea at the time. I suppose it would be really difficult considering the size of the cast... (But we are so close to achieving glory!)
Marionetta: We would have been Trope Overdosed by now if the amount hadn't been moved up to 600... but now, we're halfway there again. Press on, team, we'll make it some day!
Hieronymus: You know, 'half way there' is like saying 'take everything you've done up to now and do it all over again'. But I choose the path of laziness: bitch until they lower the trope number requirement for commercial webcomics. They already have a much lower one for film.
Marionetta: Well, I'm not so good at that, so someone could try that...? If it doesn't work, well... This site is fun, so I don't mind. Whoo now we're in 400 different pages.
From the main entry:
- Leads to some Fridge Logic since most nations are referred to as a "Mother Land" (ie FOR MOTHER RUSSIA!)
- But there are already two well-known series like Hetalia with all girls. Our National Personifications Are Different?
- ... At the risk of turning this into a messageboard, please post links? ;^;
- Well, there's Afghanis-tan
.
- Leads to some Fridge Logic since most nations are referred to as a "Mother Land" (ie FOR MOTHER RUSSIA!)
Marionetta: Guys, do we really need spoiler tags covering America and England's name concerning their relationship? Even in their first appearance, they were bickering and England attempted to choke America for insulting the food he cooked for him (that America didn't know England cooked himself). It already figures that they would look like a Takahashi Couple in a series with BL and somewhat simple-to-understand relationships, so it's not very spoilerish.
Guys, I think the name of this show should be Hetalia: Axis Powers, and the title of the articles should be changed accordingly.
No, the original name is "Axis Powers Hetalia" (which is probably meant as "AP:H"). The anime just switched it around.
Filby: Taking this out (which I had put in earlier), plus the response...
- Unfortunate Implications: The conversation between China and Japan in episode 16, with Japan explaining why he's militarizing (European expansion into Asia) and China laughing him off. This echoes the WWII-era sentiment that Japan invaded China for China's own good.
- But in terms of the mentality in the early 19th century, what China and Japan said is Truth in Television—make it clear, I am a Chinese.
In retrospect it wasn't very wise of me. Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment and all that.
Marionetta: Hmm, how do we know how many pages Hetalia is in? The search as it is only shows around 40-50, all the rest aren't shown in the search for some reason. (Is anyone getting this problem?)
RowenaTheWitch: I added the following as an example of Germans Love David Hasselhoff, but it's more of a Culture bonus, but there's no such page at tvtropes...what do you think should be done?
- South Italians that listen to the Tomato Buono song can immediatly understand that it's a Tarantella, a south italian dance that mocks the effects of the Chorea desease (an abnormal involuntary movement disorder). According to the APH wiki, South Italy suffered from that desease as young...see? Everything in Hetalia has a reason!
When I link to anything from Himaruya's blog, I just get a page from that link that says the page can't be found. I go to repair the link, find the page I want to link to again... and the link suddenly works! If I exit from the blog page again, the link goes back to not working. Does anyone know how to fix this? It's a total bummer. Sometimes it really helps to have a link from there to illustrate a point. If nobody else is having this problem, I don't think it matters, but if you can help I'd really appreciate it!
...Well, for now I'm just putting up the link in inequality signs [<>] so that it can be copied and pasted into a search bar, since it will work that way. It still isn't very practical.
Barano: How about not linking directly to images in his blog? I mean, it's basic internet courtesy. And besides, TV Tropes has a handy image uploader.
Hieronymus: I believe we're Trope Overdosed now, around 600 links? I think I've earned my PimpDuds.
Guji Just an idea that I had in Math Class yesterday, I was thinking of drawing a series of pictures of the cast with them a) nude and b) allowed to wear their countries flag as cover. Think of the possibilities!
Myth Sage: Hypothetical question. Would Finland's last name count as a Shout-Out to the Kalevala?
Barano: It probably is intended to be a Shout-Out to the Kalevala...
Sam Curt: As this work is mainly based on real-life events, do we actually need to note on the Main and Characters page on which points of history is a particular story referred here referred to?
Muggles: Just clearing up, Italy's right nipple is Corsica, not Venice. France starts taking Italy's clothes off and when Germany tells him to stop, France just says he's checking up on his property. Naganonamy: Right, sorry. It was Austria who once owned Venice, duh. I wonder what bit that is. ....and France's Little Emperor came from Italy's right nipple. This does not need thinking about.
Barano:
- Hungary was among the first countries in the Eastern Bloc to free itself from Russia (to the point of having its own brand of communism, IIRC named Goulash communism), open its frontiers and try re-establishing bonds with the rest of the world. Not a strong country anymore...?
Well no, not exactly. ^^;; The Goulash Communism thing wasn't really about being "physically" strong (more like that the SU turned a blind eye to the small and quiet reforms, for various reasons, including Stalin's death), and neither was getting rid of the SU which didn't involve military action either, in fact, it went pretty smoothly. (There was a short-lived revolution in 1956, though, which wasn't exactly a success.) And the less we speak of recent times the better.
