This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
From YKTTW Working Title: Opinion Myopia
Twin Bird: "Review's aren't opinion pieces"?
Um...no.
Rebochan: Oh look, it's Fan Haters. AGAIN. Motion to remove the examples since they're getting redundant and are pretty much just flame bait?
Dragon Quest Z: If people make comments that the trope clearly states is indicating it, they are examples. You can't just declare those aren't, without any statements to support the denial, and expect that to stand.
Mr Wednesday: This is another trope that does not need examples. Or to exist, but that's a different matter.
Dragon Quest Z: This can actually color stories. A lot of flops come about because writers think what appeals to them appeals to everyone.
Rebochan: All of the examples are obviously personal stories that upset individual people. Since Fan Haters can't have non-media examples any more, this trope's on even shakier ground. And on top of that, the examples will just be examples of this very trope since the people putting them up aren't focusing on any other opinions except their own.
Dragon Quest Z: When someone says something like "I don't see what's the point of this," "I don't see what people get about this show." Those are examples. I can change the language of the examples, but you don't just get to declare no examples, with some shaky logic. Pointing out others don't recognizing opinions is not doing the same thing. I still understand people don't like Michael Bay movies. They keep saying they don't get why people like them (or that they think people do because they are dumb).
Rebochan: I made a Troper Tales page. I still don't see any reason for this page to exist, but please. Try proving that any of those examples up there are universal fact and not one person's opinion. Also, the reviewers example is ridiculous. Reviews are always opinionated. There is no objective way to analyze the subjective quality of a video game because nobody can agree on that.
Dragon Quest Z: "universal fact"? What kind of thing is that? If a person states it, it's an example. The main page doesn't get some vague requirement just because you say so. And Troper Tales is for a personal experience, and the examples are not that, so wouldn't belong on the page anyway.
And if you don't want the page to be around in the first place, you should address that before trying to impose your opinion on the exmaples.
Plus you can't just claim examples become basically self demonstrating and expect that to stand. You need to EXPLAIN. And don't do that after cutting the examples. Make your case BEFORE you do that. And THEN if we're convinced, we'll get rid of them. We don't just let someone unilaterally cut all examples from a page.
Rebochan: The only reason I'm being such a hard ass is because all the other pages exactly like this one are getting pruned. As I recall, that was your idea. And the examples on this page aren't examples of this trope that are universally true - which is the point of a trope example. You can't just say "This is an example of something because I totally think it is" anymore. There's never going to be any examples that are either because the only way to accuse someone of opinion myopia is to suggest that someone else has it from your own personal experiences. And you're the only one supporting keeping the examples here right now.
I'd honestly think this should be cut, because this problem is going to keep coming up with examples on this trope.
Dragon Quest Z: Again, don't cut the examples before you've made your case. I will prune any examples that seem more like Complaining About People Not Liking the Show, but if people make a comment along the lines I've mentioned, that is an example.
Rebochan: Since they haven't and they can't, this isn't going to happen. Both of the examples on this page are not valid examples of this trope. Right, this is fruitless. I'll send it for cutlisting and see what happens.
Dragon Quest Z: I knew it. Rather than discuss, you'd resort to the cutlist. I just knew you would. You just couldn't accept I might have gotten rid of the examples if you had discussed things civilly. Was it so hard to try to discuss things BEFORE taking unilateral action?
And the ykttw had 26 replies, so either "Launched with little to no actual discussion on the YKTTW page" is an outright lie or you didn't read it.
Cutmasters, could you please leave this page as it is, so I can have the chance to discuss this page with people who are willing to discuss instead of just doing an Edit War?
Janitor: It seems pretty plain that opinion myopia exists. Next, we need to look at "Is it a trope?" It seems to be a convention that shapes forum activity, and forms a characteristic of some fictional characters, so it seems like it is a trope. If we can marshall examples of its use as a trope, it seems like those examples fit what we do around here. I'm going to excise some text from the description that make it seem like a complaint and move it back toward being a trope description.
Dragon Quest Z: I did put back about the sub tropes, since they are. I just added a qualifier as to why this isn't always those.
Rebochan: Fine, whatever. It's just another terrible ranting trope that's going to get axed to pieces in a few months anyway.
Dragon Quest Z: Would it kill you to just explain why you feel this way, and give us a chance to respond?
Rebochan: Let's see. Your opinion is that the examples are perfectly objective and there's no way anyone could see otherwise. I am the exact opposite. See the problem now? We are literally re-enacting this trope.
On top of that, the two examples on the page are pretty bad. Going over the YKTTW example, you never got more examples than the ones you proposed and much of the responses were a small flame war of people feeling "victimized" by this trope. The two examples on the page are pretty much awful - reviews are always going to be one guy's opinion piece since a review is a subjective critique of a work, and the message board really boils down to "Any where that people discuss anything, this will happen. Except where people are forced to conform to another one." You could simply make that part of the introduction for the page and cut it entirely, because that's this trope in a nutshell.
