This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Springjack Bono of U2 is not Christian Rock. For one, he does not self-identify his music as "Christian music". Secondly, references to Christianity are not an indication of Christian music because of how ingrained it is in the mainstream culture. Nor is having Christians in the band.
To give a few examples: -Flobots, Stand Up: "We shall not be moved/Except By a child with no socks and shoes/Except by a woman dying from the loss of food/Except by a freedom fighter bleeding on a cross for you/We shall not be moved" and "Under God but we kill like the son of Sam/But if you feel like I feel like about the son of man/We will overcome" Here are two religious references in a fairly "gospel" sounding song. But to label the Flobots as a Christian band would be misleading, because they are generally critical of organized religion. Using the language, however.....
-Woodie Guthrie, Jesus Christ: "This song was written in New York City/Of rich men, preachers and slaves/But if Jesus was to preach/like he preached in Galillee,/They would lay Jesus Christ in his grave." http://www.ciscohouston.com/lyrics/jesus_christ.shtml--->
And you'll note the person at the end criticizing Guthrie's song. Both of the Guthries, in the folk movement, were very critical of religion (look up "Pie in the Sky") but used religious terminology and symbolism.
-Hell, lets go for an obvious one. Anyone want to claim Marilyn Manson is a "Christian" rocker? He has a song taken right of Psalm 23: "In The Shadow of the Valley of Death"
Really, I could dig up more, but someone is going to have to make a convincing case about Bono and anyone else who knows the Bible or else I'm going to add every artist in the Western world to this. Even the Beatles did it.
Dragon Quest Z: You don't need to go on a whole damn rant. The description was explicitly stated to include non-christian rockers. I just split 'em off now, but Bono does belong in the latter category. Or are you forgetting that Tropes Are Not Bad, and worried that this is somehow trying to make him look bad? I'm not. I like the guy.
Springjack I'm doing so because this trope is wrong. Its not "Christian music" and it shouldn't be labelled as such- not because its bad, but because its WRONG. And note that I added Brother Metal who is GOOD but also thinks metal is a powerful way to express his faith. That is Christian rock. Not just quoting or alluding to the Bible, because that makes this trope huge for no reason, seeing as the Bible is, oh, I dunno, the most read and printed book in the Western world.
Dragon Quest Z: I did not claim quoting from the Bible is the sole thing that puts Bono up here. It's a more general thing about what inspires his music. That is important. His work would be very different if he didn't feel what I he did.
And for the last time, putting it on here is not calling it Christian music. I even have that up on the banner.
Springjack Then rename the trope. Sorry, but a trope named Christian Rock should be about A. bands that identify themselves as "Christian" or B. bands that explicitly connect their music to their faith. And note that "the use of Judeo-Christian themes" happens to be quoting or alluding to the Bible and oh yeah, in the article, that's the evidence presented. I provided similar examples which definitely do not fit under this article, but would fit the U2 criteria. Flobots in particular, are an activist band who happen to use religious phrases and a religious feeling in their song, but definitely do not fall under this trope. They're just many in a long line of people doing that (MLK, 60s protest songs, Populist and Union singers, etc....)
Dragon Quest Z: Bono does connect his music, just as inspiration, rather than directly.
Springjack: He also identifies it as not being religious music..... so.....
Dragon Quest Z: That's why I noted it isn't. Duh.
Springjack: Then it has no place in an article called Christian Rock! That's it, I am adding every example possible under your criteria. Its a ridiculous standard and I want to show you just how bloated it would be by your standard.
Dragon Quest Z: But what do you think my criteria is? I'm not sure you know what I'm getting at.
EDIT: Actually, thinking about it, I'll just split those off into another page. I'll call it Not Christian Rock, about works that could be mistaken for it, but aren't really.
Springjack: My problem is that Christianity is ubiquitous. I've heard "Rocky Raccoon" played at churches because it mentions the cheap Bibles found in hotels. Your tropifying every reference to Christianity would quickly get out of hand.
Unless Christianity is a big part of it, it shouldn't be noted- because shout outs and allusions are everywhere. Biblical phrases are everywhere- and we already have tropes covering that sort of thing. I don't mind it if this lists every band that identifies itself, explicitly as Christian or views their work as benefiting Christianity and believers some way, but otherwise, it is way too broad for a trope.
Dragon Quest Z: Look at the page for Not Christian Rock. It does not mean just shout-outs an allusions. It's supposed to be things one might confuse for it, but is not really. Although in my book, it's a complement, because these usually sound like the best kinds of Christian Rock, not the kind that gives the genre a bad name.
Moved the following to Not Christian Rock.
- All the members of pop-punk band Paramore are Christian, although only a few songs have explicitly Jesusy lyrics.
False Prophet: Jesus Christ Superstar is not Christian Rock. In fact, you can argue Webber and Rice had the opposite intention in mind when they wrote it. Find a mainstream Christian denomination that is remotely as sympathetic to Judas as JCS is.
