This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
ccoa: Removed the following examples, because, for all that's good, the movie isn't out yet. Most of these are narrative tropes, not visual tropes, so there is really no way to discern these just from the trailer. Please wait until the movie is released to declare it's Humans Are Bastards and Idiots: The Movie. And, sheesh, cut down on the natter. Make a forum thread if you want to talk about how the plot makes sense or not.
- Does This Remind You of Anything?: And how.
- Humans Are Bastards: Wait - the planet's impossibly far away, and we can't even breath the air. I can understand why the noble American Indians want to defend their homeland from... Sorry. I can understand why this one tiny Navi tribe want to defend their particular patch of dirt and grove of trees - but what the hell are the humans even doing there?? The trailer doesn't tells us. It just assumes a suspiciously unnammed western nation will travel dozens of light years just to comit genocide.
- It's stated somewhere that Pandora is the only source of a mineral (i think) that is elemental to humanity's survival.
Janitor: You know what's cool? You can chill for a half day and then clean out all the natter, and nobody will notice.
- That doesn't make any sense. How can a mineral that is necessary for human survival only be found on an alien world. I mean, it would make sense if it was something like, I don't know, water to replenish dwindling sources but instead it's some made up mineral called Unobtanium.
- It's a type of metal that makes anti-matter power extremely cheap and practical and not require massive, inefficient facilities to create. That, and it takes a while before it loses it potency, meaning that even a small amount of that stuff can keep a large city running for some time. And given that the earth in this universe is extremely over-populated and has almost no resources left, it becomes very lucrative to pilfer such a rich planet.
- Recycled In Space: The movie is Pocahontas...but IN SPACE!
- I always thought of it as Dances With Wolves...also IN SPACE!
- Rock Beats Laser: You know this is going to happen. The human guns and mechs will be no match for the blue fur- I mean Na'Vi mighty bows and arrows (and dragons).
- If this trope is averted, then that would make up for all of the other problems. Downer Endings ROCKS!
- You Fail Economics Forever: If this tiny outpost of humanity can make humanoid bodies to order (and Earth presumably has more advanced facilities still) then what possible 'precious resources' might we ever want to locate, mine, refine, and ship back at ruinous expense, that we couldn't make cheaper and easier back on Earth once we had a small sample to copy? If it turns out to be any kind of organic product, then this would also be a case of Cameron not quite understanding genetic engineering - especially when it comes to bacteria, which can basically be tricked into making just about anything.
- Maybe it has something to do with the Floating Continent?
- Floating Continents do make people crazy, what with the breaking of the laws of physics and such.
- The humans are also completely ignoring all of the mineral rich moons, asteroids, comets, and uninhabited planets that exist in much greater quantities than life-bearing worlds. About the only justification for attacking an inhabited world is imperialism/colonialism.
- That, or that this planet is the only source of something that mankind really needs. of course, the two aren´t mutually exclusice...
- Maybe it has something to do with the Floating Continent?
32_Footsteps: Is it too early to add a note about Furry Fandom yet? Because every time I see the preview for this movie, I'm convinced it's an allegory about embracing your inner furry. Not That There's Anything Wrong with That.
ccoa: Small problem here. Plagiarism doesn't allow examples, which would suggest that adding it as an example on other pages is also disallowed. It's an extremely serious charge and we could potentially get in trouble for having it here. I'm removing it, but I think the information in it is relevent. Could someone find a way to put it back without making it a red flag for a cease and desist notice?
- Plagiarism: Poul Anderson's story "Call Me Joe" involves a handicapped Earthman porting his consciousness into a blue avatar on the primitive surface of Jupiter, where he comes to identify more with the natives than his own people... hmm...
- I've added it under Serial Numbers Filed Off for the time being.
However, a little research debunks it - the Wikipedia has a general plot outline of Call Me Joe and it's pretty apparent that it bears only superficial relation to Avatar. Especially if the charge is on a disabled man controlling an alternate body via some connection which is not a original premise by far across multiple works.
Cameron has been quoted on saying the following:
- The Na'vi represent something that is our higher selves, or our aspirational selves, what we would like to think we are, and the humans in the film, even though there are some good ones salted in, represent what we know to be the parts of ourselves that are trashing our world and maybe condemning ourselves to a grim future.
So, us humans actually aspire to be Loincloth-wearing, naturalist Smurf expys with no modern technology, medicine or ideas anywhere to be seen, and those who are interested in such things represent our "bad" side. Of course, this wouldn't be the first time Cameron has dabbled in Science Is Bad.
- You know I keep getting the same feeling, even though at some points I've been told otherwise, that it isn't as black and white as all that. But I still get the feeling. It doesn't help that the TV spot for the movie is done in a way to make the marines look like the good guys with the General giving a speech about how he wants to keep his men alive and relenting how he won't succeed with all of them then it goes to show humans being bad ass and everything. So in short I don't know what to think right now. If it does end up as the typical "Navi good, Marines Evil" junk though I can rely on you guys and the internet in general to come down on it for it. I liked District 9 cause it presented this by showing at least a few humans who were trying to help them out, in fact there was a whole organization in the movie devoted to making sure the Aliens had rights, here it just seems like "Dances with Wolves... IN SPACE!"
- That would be a pretty good twist, at least.
- Yeah, Na'Vi Good, Humans Bastards. Except for the ones who think the Na'Vi are both right and awesome. All sources say the movie/site/game/ect couldn't be more Anvilicious about it if they strapped a Na'Vi to a giant steel-belching anvil and crushed it repeatedly with a gigantic human-shaped Gravity Hammer. That said, I liked District9 because it showed both sides: I thought they should have shown the large majority of people who were neither Pro-Alien or Anti-Alien but "Well, as long as they stay where they are, I couldn't care less," but eh, nothing's perfect.
Is it just me, or is the movie veeeryyy predictable? I saw the trailer and my reaction was like this: Beginning, military hardware, scenery: "Oh, wow, VTOL-Gunships, floating rocks, f-in`cool!"; Na`vis show up, transformation, etc.: "What, ah no!"; Big Fight: "At least it looks good..."; Kiss scene(is in at least one trailer): "Oh no, a love story!"; The fight again, humans seem to lose: "Great, the blue skinned idiots win." One trailer and the movie kinda` is spoiled for me. A bit of reading about it and I am sure. Anybody else feel like that?
- Designated NPC: Well, it's pretty obvious that James Cameron has been hyping the visuals, not the story. Which, as has been pointed out by many, is exceptionally derivative in the extreme. Which doesn't mean it'll be bad, necessarily - Older Than X tropes are around for a reason - but it also means that if you go in expecting anything besides impressive visuals, you're going to be disappointed. You know, like with 2012.
- James have been hyping everything, saying it's a story that's never been told, ect, ect.
- Discar: Did someone remove the Your Mileage May Vary example, or was it a mistake? Why pull that?
- The absurd extent to which the movie's detractors seem to be criticizing it for its plot might count as another case of attacking its weak point.
- Well, seeing how the point of a movie is to tell a story... plot is pretty important.
Janitor: Moving this discussion out of the page ...
- Inferred Holocaust: So, after a bloody and nearly hopeless battle, the Na'vi managed to defeat the human force and send them back to space, and the movie ended happily ever after... except that the army they just defeated is basically a mere bodyguard force for a mining company. Depending on how valuable Unobtanium is to the folks back earth, there is a great possibility that they will go all out, bringing an invasion force consisting of full body armored troops with high caliber weapons, flamethrowers, fully armored mechs, multirole fighters, artillery, tanks, APCs, real bombers instead of modified shuttles, not to mention orbital weaponry to support ground operations. There's nothing the technologically lacking Na'vi can do to prevent the humans from bombing their sacred ground from orbit with so many tungsten rods or even nukes that even mother nature can't defend against, before sending in ground troops set for genocide. Their victory is more like the Battle of Isandlwana
, where the natives succeeds in defeating the technologically superior but numerically inferior invader but in the process pissed of the people back home.
** Of course, it will take the hypothetical invasion force 12 years to arrive, on a starship that can only transport 200-odd people at a time. That's 12 years an entire planet has to prepare for their arrival, with the aid of a human science team and the mind of one of those genius scientists uploaded into the planet's consciousness.- As mining operations were commercially viable, and the corporation got quite a bit of heavy equipment on Pandora, it is practically guaranteed, that hauling significant quantities of cargo is possible.
- Wrong!!! If you check the Pnadorapedia site. You will notice that the ISV Venture Star has a payload of 350 tons. That barely more then a single An 225 and not enough to carry any meaningful invasion force. Also the site states that in order for the RDA to maintain it's monopoly on Pandora it can not bring weapons of mass destruction in space or build armed vessels: "More powerful than most Earth governments The Resources Development Administration (RDA) has monopoly rights to all products shipped, derived or developed from Pandora and any other off-Earth location. These rights were granted to RDA in perpetuity by the Interplanetary Commerce Administration (ICA), with the stipulation that they abide by a treaty that prohibits weapons of mass destruction and limits military power in space."
- Hoo boy, what a nice Author's Saving Throw! It ruins all the "why don't ya just nuke them" theories and makes their followers look like trigger-happy morons.
- And more importantly, this was just one money-grubbing corporation that was already less than popular back on Earth, if some of Jake's early comments mean anything. Quite possibly a fair chunk of the population just cheers seeing them get their asses kicked. Ultimate results depend on how important the Unobtanium is, and if Pandora is literally the only place in the known universe where the stuff can be acquired. In any case, the governments of Earth under the watchful eye of the media would probably be more careful and less heavy-handed. Probably.
- Especially since even if he has chosen to emigrate to another species, Jake is still not likely to let his birth world die off simply because he wants to preserve rocks. He'd likely be entirely open to any compromise that let the Na'vi keep their hometrees while still letting Earth have enough unobtainium, and its in the government's best interest to settle rather than fight. And as the Toruk Makto, Jake has enough status to convince the Na'vi to go along with anything that sounds reasonable.
- Reasonable? The sky people tried to squash him and his girl with a bulldozer, killed his future father-in-law and an unspecified number of future distant relatives, and burnt down his new home. They have crossed Moral Event Horizon so far into depravity that there is no psychologically feasible way for him to keep with the diplomacy mission.
- Lack of desire to be bombed from orbit or even being pulled into another bloody war might serve as a pretty powerful motivator.
- Lolwut?. Are you saying that if, say, the Nazis bombed your country's capital into stone age because you don't want to give away your lands, it's better to give in to their demands -- and dooming your country to everyday humiliation -- rather than, like, mount some resistance and call your allies for help?
- Two words: Nuclear Fucking Weapons.
- They are off-limits. See above.
Janitor: Here' some more:
- Using their space-capable shuttle as a bomber was fairly clever. Using it at such a low altitude was not. No reason was given for not just flying higher than the Banshees could go and targeting the thing visually. They were so low the blast could easily have taken out the shuttle and all the gunships when it went off.
- There was entirely a reason given for not bombing from high altitude — the entire target site is covered in clouds. They had to go in below the weather to have any hope of seeing the target at all. As for being caught in the blast, improvised pallets of mining explosive wouldn't be likely to have impact fuses, as those are specialty items. Mining explosives use timers or command detonation, so their plan was apparently to just drop the damn explosives next to the tree, then fly away, then push a button.
- No, it was on a timer they set when they prepped the bomb. When they missed the drop by a few seconds it blew out the nay.
- Using their space-capable shuttle as a bomber was fairly clever. Using it at such a low altitude was not. No reason was given for not just flying higher than the Banshees could go and targeting the thing visually. They were so low the blast could easily have taken out the shuttle and all the gunships when it went off.
Jonn: Could someone move What the Hell, Hero? to Moral Dissonanace or Designated Hero? We're trying to avoid more Trope Decay, people. I'd do it myself, if I could actually get access to the edit page.
Charred Knight: Can anyone tell me how a movie about a corrupt evil American Empire using massive amount of technology against a good people who don't have technology and only use their bond of nature is a "Complete inversion" of science is bad. Theirs a difference between science, and scientist, especially scietnist who specialize in nature.
Master Ghandalf: There's also a difference between science (the process) and technology (the product). The latter is used for evil and good (unless you think the stolen weapons and gunships in the final battle were suddenly being powered by Eiwa, to say nothing of the Avatar program itself). The former is done almost exclusively by people who are portrayed positively. The problem with the evil human characters is their attitude, not their tech in and of itself.
Charred Knight: Then how is that a complete inversion? The product is caused by the process. You take a piece of the pie and ignore the rest because it doesn't go with your point. You also ignore that the Nav'i which represents the good of the world are without technology while humans who represent the evil are definded by their technology. The major difference between the two are the fact that humans have science.
Master Ghandalf: I never said that it was a complete inversion (the trope entry did, which I re-insterted but did not write)- just that it's not played straight either. In my opinion (which admittedly may have colored how I saw the movie), science and technology both are True Neutral- a Dragon gunship, for example, is not evil, but it can be used for such by someone like Quaritch. So could a spear, a bow, or a banshee. Just because something can be abused doesn't mean it's always bad. Also, personally I'd say the real difference between the humans and the Na'vi is that one group is imperialist and wants to wreck the other's civilization to get what it wants, while the other just wants to be left alone, so I disagree with one major point of your premise.
Charred Knight: Than you might want to rewrite it to have the example make sense.I just find it hard to see the portrayal of humans and Na'vi and not see a Science Is Bad theme.
Impudent Infidel: That's just straight-up Noble Savage. The Na'vi seem to believe this as a cultural thing, though.
Unknown Troper: Sweet Buddha on a pogo stick, this page is attracting natter like a corpse attracts flies. Can we cut down on it, please?
Don: Tell Cameron to make a good film that isn't outclassed by something that was made on an eighth of the budget first, and then maybe we can.
Unknown Troper: I'm sorry, where on the Natter page does it say that "if you don't like the film, you can natter about it in the article"? If you want to bitch and moan, take it to the forums. Keep it off the main article.
Charred Knight: The problem is that their are legitimate complaints. I keep hearing about how this show is so idealistic, when the problem is that its not. It's cynical as hell proclaiming that humanity who has lost the ability to live without civilization is doomed because of it.
Dolt Boy: Yeah, and none of that justifies Natter. I know neutrality is not what this wiki is about, but since it's the Avatar page, where nobody can agree on anything, can't we just keep it as neutral as possible? Or at least under the contested tropes offer the different points of view succinctly, and then bitch about the movie (or gush over it) on this page instead? If someone has articulated by a trope that this movie is overly idealistic, bring out the Your Mileage May Vary or Alternate Character Interpretation or something and edit the reference to say that some people feel otherwise because of etc.
BrightBlueInk: I really wish some of you guys would give better edit reasons than "no" (or whatever) on some of this stuff, it's really hard for me to tell if you have a legit reason for taking out stuff or if you're just Edit Waring over people liking/disliking the film. A few of the examples that have been deleted (not the natter) seemed like they could be legit to me.
Bly: Could whoever added the "word of god" note under the Alternate Character Interpretation trope please give a link? I'd like to read what exactly it was Cameron said.
Jonn: How is having an able-bodied actor playing a disabled one Unfortunate Implications? Actors in wheelchairs aren't exactly thick on the ground, and they needed Jake's actor to be able-bodied for mo-cap purposes.
Unknown Troper: Agreed and pulled.
Lanth: This page could use a cleanup eventually - the fact that the colonel is a bad-ass is repeated over and over again with different trope references. Same for Mecha references and also to some extent for the characters. It might be worthwhile making a separate sub-heading for things like 'Colonel Miles Quaritch' and 'Mecha' and just put all of the tropes under those headings. Right now it's kind of tedious reading through this list to be confronted with basically a repeat, or slightly different take, on a trope that was 5 entries up.
Janitor: Go for it. Sounds like a plan with a good goal for a good reason.
Unknown Troper: Why don't we just create a characters page?
Ne Koe N Ma: I read the article on this page and somehow it bugs me. No, I don't mind that tropes are being shown and played with and all. That's the whole point on the site. However I find a bit unnerving that there are so many references comparing Avatar to other works, saying "Avatar is like X with Y", and numerous examples on how there are similar works. But I'm honestly asking, is there any point? After all, many works are similar to each other, and just because they strike resemblence to some other films and works, it doesn't mean it's a carbon copy. While there is a Your Mileage May Vary between Cliché Storm and Troperrific, I am really really really doubtful the movie can have so many "movies that are the same" listed, especially considering when you compare two of the "same" movies listed, they're nothing alike. It can't be equal to Braveheart and Pocahontas at the same time. The story may be predictable but it is not exactly the same I've seen in other works. I can't get the Avatar script, replace the names and end up with another work. I understand the page for this movie is still young and I've been looking at it it has been more than a week but... I think it had time to mature itself, and I'm trying to contribute. Sorry if this offends anyone.
Mac Phisto: Perhaps I'm the basterd for saying this, but many Tropers keep mentioning the Inferred Holocaust that the human race is doomed to the lack of Unobtainium. I don't recall anywhere in the movie it being stated that it is necessary to the survival of the human race, just that it's worth millions of dollars per kilogram. And even if it is, the human race has screwed itself over by it's endless consumption. If our polluted world must die so that the Na'Vi might live, then so be it.
- Yes, the movie does not make any mention of what unobtanium is used for, just that it is worth a lot of money. It has been word of god'ded in the supporting background materials for the movie that the unobtanium is vital to power generation on earth, see the various earlier discussions on this page. It can be construed from this, that without the unobtanium, Earth (which is already 'used up' to use Firefly terminology) will face power shortages, and hence severly harm the human race as a whole. I guess there should probably be a paragraph in the opening section mentioning this copious backstory, with a link to the pandoran encyclopedia.
- This also begs the question of why it's so bad for Earth to suffer. They're not using it to improve their lot, they're using it to perpetuate The System. Why should the Na'vi get screwed over because humans messed Earth up?
Charred Knight: So your going to let billions suffer because of the way we have grown as a people. That's just completely heartless.
- Jonn: And the humans were going to let how many Na'vi suffer again? What happens when they finish off the Unobtanium under Hometree? They move to the next one, bomb those Na'vi, and so on.
Trope for the different clans? There must be some sort of trope that describes the 2 distinct clans that are shown in the film - the plains clan that all rides horses, the eastern sea aclan clan that all ride aclans, and then the Omaticaya that ride both horses and aclans.
Washington 213 Deleted the long list of "similar stories", because it had no place on this site. It didn't list any tropes at all, it was just a list of movies it compared to. It was utterly pointless, and seeing as how no other film article has a similar list, I took it down. Here is the list:
Similar Stories: People see remarkable similarities to other movies. Even remarkably dissimilar movies:
- The movie appears to be Pocahontas IN SPACE!
- As South Park put it, "Dances with Smurfs"
- The Last Samurai IN SPACE!
- Ferngully IN SPACE!. Seriously: Human hooks up with a nonhuman chick (after being altered into something more to her scale), learns about a colorful rainforest environment, doesn't exactly hit it off with the locals who are One With The Forest and ends up battling an industrial force plundering the landscape alongside said forest dwellers after having an anvil dropped on him. This movie does not have a manifestation of pollution voiced by Tim Curry. But that would have been awesome.
- Man comes from another world to harvest a rare mineral unique to only this extremely hostile planet. Ends up being forced to live among the natives and learn their ways from a local girl who he ends up falling in love with. Has to ride a fearsome creature as a right of passage into manhood, and then unites the local clans and leads them to battle against culture from which he originally came. Can you say Dune?
- A blue man has his home attacked by the evil General Ripper, loses his first fight, but then makes a stirring speech to an assembled mass of people about freedom and the rights of their homeland, before leading them to a victorious battle? FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOM!
- In other words, it uses an archetypical, arguably cliched story, one used in other prominent works, in a new way by transporting it into a new, highly detailed setting that breaks new ground in filmmaking, though with little care for characterization or depth? This sounds familiar.
- Earth itself is dying? The planet's atmosphere and plants are poisonous to humans? Colonists divided between a green/diplomatic faction and a corporate/militaristic faction? Everything is trying to kill you? The story is SET in the Alpha Centauri system? The vegetation is actually a planet-wide neural net that coordinates the attacks of the indiginous life forms? It's practically Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri: The Movie. (Albeit with hot blue alien catgirls rather than mindraping parasitic worms).
- Listen closely when they talk about "seeing," and what they really mean in context. It's oddly similar to a certain other concept that other aliens have had problems translating into English properly. Only this time the human is coming to the enlightened alien planet, so it's completely different.
- A war between nature and industry over precious resources hidden in the ground culminating in a violent encounter and attacks against the forest gods. ...Huh...
- A very popular 2009 Science Fiction action film with exemplary special effects features a man who had worked for an evil corporation composed of humans unjustly antagonizing an alien race. This man somehow becomes one of the aliens that his corporation had been antagonizing. In his alien form, he begins to befriend and sympathize with these aliens and subsequently turns against the evil humans. At the climax, our protagonist is almost killed by an asshole military man part of the evil corporation, but he is saved at the last second by fellow aliens brutally killing off the asshole military man. By the end of the film the protagonist is permanently transformed into an alien. Hmmm....
- Poul Anderson's story "Call Me Joe" involves a handicapped Earthman porting his consciousness into a blue avatar on the primitive surface of Jupiter, where he comes to identify more with the natives than his own people. Or rather, the alien he is inhabiting begins to take over his mind. Not exactly the same thing as "identifying with the aliens".
- Minus the avatar (and the coloring of the aliens) the plot is identical to Ursula K Le Guin's The Word for World is Forest, right down the General Ripper Big Bad.
- Animorphs likes to have a prequel story for each of its alien races. The Hork-Bajir chronicles involves Andalite missionaries taking on Hork-Bajir form to talk and make peace with the natives until an alien race attempts to destroy them. The main character chooses to stay in the body of the Hork-Bajir in order to stay with her native guide, who she fell in love with while learning about his culture. At the same time, nature proceeds to send out the best forces it has on the planet. Oh, and the aliens in question are ultra-tall and live in harmony with nature, in a giant tree.
- Very similar plot to the obscure, but very worthwhile game Albion. Albion even has a race of cat people! Corporation invades the planet to mine resources, gets beaten back by the earth magic derived from the planetary goddess.
- Not to mention Mike Resnick's A Miracle of Rare Design, a short, episodic novel about a human troubleshooter surgically remade into a series of aliens in order to fulfill various diplomatic missions. He was literally his own Avatar.
Janitor: I'll put it back. Best to have it all in one place. Obviously, a lot of people thought it worth noting.
Washington 213: Why? Tell me how is it a trope at all? It is not a list of tropes, it's just saying how it is similar to other movies. Well, no shit. Every movie will have similarities to movies and stories that came before, stories do not magically pop out of vacuums. If it has tropes similar to other stories, then those stories would be listed on the respective trope articles, along with Avatar. There's also the fact that no other article I've seen has such a list. It's completely pointless.
Fast Eddie: It'll just grow again if it's not there. Patience. After the blow-through from initial release is the time to deal with this. Having them all in one place will be handy.
Washington 213 But there's point to it. At all. They're. Not. Tropes.
Fast Eddie: People are seeing it as a trope, with a list of examples. There is an interesting pattern in how people are imagining a pattern out of these fairly shallow similarities in such disparate works.
Pretty sure another shout out/reference is Asimov's Gaia planet from his Foundation series.
Silverevilchao: Was I the only one who thought "Prog Knife!" when Colonel Badass's Humongous Mecha took out a knife in the final battle?
Dolt Boy: Nope :D
Febel: I'm a bit new here and I added a note under Batman Can Breath In Space :
- This troper actually timed each of Quaritch's outings during my second viewing of the film. The longest one was just over 35 secs while the other two were around 30 secs each. Given that it's stated early on the the average time it takes for a person to pass out is 20 seconds and the Colonel's ridiculous level of fitness it's not that much of a stretch to say that he could actually last that long in the open enviroment without losing consciousness.
Tallibear: You could say "When timed, the longest Quaritch is seen holding his breath is 35 seconds, while the other two were around 30 seconds each. Given that it's stated early on the the average time it takes for a person to pass out is 20 seconds and the Colonel's ridiculous level of fitness it's not that much of a stretch to say that he could actually last that long in the open environment without losing consciousness."
Febel: Perfect! added it. thank you.
Febel: ...aaaaannnd deleted again. *sigh*
Hadri: I'm seeing more and more new edits, a lot of them needlessly angry, raising problems with the film that can be justified by being All There in the Manual, like Pandorapedia
. I'm reluctant to add line upon line of justifying edits and make multiple deletions based on this, though, lest it set off a flame war while the editing on this page is so crazy. What is a reasonable course of action?
Fast Eddie: If it is editorializing, its out. No confusion.
Defective Detective: I just wrote a review, and believe I added it to the main page for avatar, talking about the concept rather than the film. Could anyone throw me a few pointers on how to straighten it out? Thanks.
Fast Eddie: You add reviews by clicking the 'reviews' link at the top of the Avatar page. Is that your question? I don't see a review in the Avatar page.
Passer-By: Eddie, could you stop removing examples? If there's natter, then just prune the offending bits rather than removing legit info (unless the tropes are subjective).
Fast Eddie: No, thanks. This one is busy enough that people can do their own editing.
Pretty_Angel: Unfortunate Implications — When Grace explains that the company should stop destroying nature the reason she gives is because the whole "being connected with mother nature" thing is real and later Cameron resolves the plot with a literal Deus ex Machina. Is it just me or does that implicate we should not respect other peoples' culture because that would be a decent thing to do but rather because whatever they believe could be true and their gods could come and kick your butt??
Hadri: the humans get their just desserts for not respecting their culture in the first place. Writers tend to do that. Unfortunate Implications are what you make them.
Pretty_Angel: No, I didn't meant that they got rightfully served in the end. But rather how Cameron set up his Aesop about being nice to other peoples.
Dausuul: I think that's a Fantastic Aesop. "Respect the culture of blue-skinned aliens who might have a primal link to their planet's entire biosphere."
The Auditor: "Unexpected Reactions to This Index: Though it fits under none of the listed subtropes, a large amount of fans have become depressed after watching the film." - Could we get a new trope to describe this? It's quite a powerful one; the film connects so much with the audience that they feel the need to emotionally invest themselves to the extent their mental health becomes compromised. I would try myself, but I'm not sure if we've got something that covers this.
- I agree, I've never even heard of something like this before, at least not on this scale.
- Depends how you want to define this trope. If it's just about extrem fan reactions I've seen them before with Titanic or Twilight and they seem to belong into Fan Dumb - or to be more precise they are a result of Willfully Blind/Easily Impressed/Insane Avatar and/or becoming a Monomaniac. In the end it's a serious case of Fan Addiction. (Is that a trope?)
- TRiG: I'm still new here, and not sure whether this should be added to the main page for the film. So I'll put it here and see what ye think of it.
- Soul Jar: Not actually a Soul Jar (technically, it's almost the opposite), but when Jake (in Avatar form) is fighting the colonel toward the end of the film, and the colonel makes a move to attack Jake's unprotected human body in it's pod, the effect is similar.
Charred Knight: How the hell does Rooting for the Empire not fit? Look at the huge edit wars and the crap with Quaritch and tell me a lot of people are not rooting for the humans?
- The does have several lines on the actually Rooting for the Empire page. If someone were to reintroduce it here, this troper thinks they'd be well within their rights to. Any objections?
Not sure were or what this would be but Stephen Lang the actor for Quaritch has been quoted in regards to a sequel with: "You think those two arrows in my chest are going to stop me from coming back? Nothing's over so long as they've got my DNA." Which suggests two things. One, a puny thing like death isn't going to stop Quaritch, and two, Stephen Lang had a lot of fun with the role, enough so that he identifies it as himself, since he's not talking about 'his character' or 'Quaritch' but using 'me' and 'my'.
What's with the new picture in the first page? It's beyond ugly, it hurts eyes.
What's the deal with Avatar being allegedly banned in China? It's grossed freakin' 102 million there (and rising)! Somebody give me a decent prooflink or the Banned in China section gotta go.
- Google is your friend.
- Just as I thought, it was flanderized. Pulling the 2D version from the theaters to give room for a hyped domestic product (purely commercial rationale) and banning the film outright for some ideological reasons are two vastly different things.
- Sure, but it's still China upholding the trope it's named for.
- Google is your friend.
Had to share this
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Majin Gojira: I have just one question. Why in the hell hasn't this page gotten a character sheet yet when it's already divided into one entry folder for just one character?
Fireandchutes77: For Rock Beats Laser:
- It is also used straight - a billion-dollar mining machine is blinded and disabled by a guy with a rock.
- Blinded, yes, because he broke the camera, but he didn't disable it. It only stopped because the people driving it could no longer see where they were going.
Majin Gojira: I expected it to be deleted, but I would like to discuss its nature and application in this index.
The deletion was under Anviliscious, and consisted of: "It also begs the question: when did America become synonymous with the Robber Barons?"
I feel strongly that it does beg the question that the RDA is scene as America as a whole. One could argue that it calls up Iraq War parallels, but the only tie there is the use of the War on Terror language, there is little to support that assertion. How does the RDA differ from Weiland-Untani or other Corrupt Corporate Executives to become the United States?
And yes, I am aware of the possible loss of Blair Hill as a historical site and the battle it represents, to the corporations at the root of it, but still...
Anime Otaku: Would the Na'vi hunters be a variation of Apologetic Attacker?
Camacan: Cameron speaking Na’vi at Golden Globe Awards. I think that's just wonderful. The reporting media and those attending appear to have zero tolerance for this kind of wackiness though.
Camacan: Removing the note in the page image that fans are "pervs" — hardly in line with the Rule Of Cautious Editing Judgment judgement. The Just Bugs Me page might be a better place to vent such opinions.
- Hadri: I thought it was funny. I don't think it was intended to call fans pervs; it was just meant to be ironic. Maybe you have a point. But you managed to completely ruin the joke in the picture caption, so you or someone else is going to need to think of something better. In any case this point demands additional discussion.
- Majin Gojira: I thought it was funny too. Edit to add: and I'm a big fan of the film as well. Humor in light of such a divise page is REALLY needed.
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I think the deletion was unnecessary but I agree with the current compromise if it'll prevent further editing. - Hadri: Okay, if people are going to insist on being unfunny we may as well trash the whole caption. it's just not worth fighting over. in fact, neither is most of this page.
- Majin Gojira: Oh, please. This is nothing! You think this is bad enough to warrent scrapping the segment entirely? Go drop by The Fundamentalist for some real incomprehensible, vehement stuff. I'd just add one invisible comment at this point: "Hey, jackhole. Discussion Boards Exist for a Reason." Or something like that.
Majin Gojira: A basic question, but where does all the fanrage over 'The Superior Species' stuff come from? I really did not get it from the movie and what expanded material I have read has not done much to convey it.
Biologically, sure, they're better at certain stuff and have some nifty tallents, but so does a bear. So does a squid. Yet we can do things they can't do and the same goes for the Na'Vi. I bet that we have better night vision than they do due to all the bioluminesence they live with.
Every other category I can think of gets either a shrug of indifference or a "You're kidding right?" from me.
So can someone explain this to me?
- Actually this isn't limited to Avatar; rage usually results when this overlaps with Can't Argue with Elves. Cameron pretty shamelessly admitted this was his intention and the Na'vi were presented as a Sue Topia. I don't really have personal problems with this because it's hard to give a nuanced portrayal of another species in an action-adventure movie, and I just fill in the blanks like you did to make them more fallible. But I can see where the distaste comes from. We're supposed to believe the Na'vi are an ideal society, but would any of us want to live naked in a tree? See what I mean? That's the problem with Sue Topias. - Hadri
