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NNinja Since: Sep, 2015
Jun 14th 2020 at 2:51:07 PM •••

  • In chapter 5, Nagito engineers an elaborate (in his eyes) Heroic Suicide with the intention of getting everyone but the Future Foundation's spy executed. As part of the plan, he fills a fire-extinguishing grenade with a lethal poison, using his supernatural luck to ensure that the spy is the one to throw it, while obscuring the true cause of death via brutal self-mutilation and a giant spear. You'd Expect: Since he, as the only living student at that point to be able to enter the Octagon (where the poison was obtained) and as a result the only student to know of the existence of the poison, he would attempt to hide or destroy the bottle that originally contained the poison (or at least deal with the label) while the other students were distracted by the fake bomb threat so that the other students would have no choice but to believe that he died from his wounds, ensuring that his "murder" could not be solved. Instead: He keeps the empty bottle in the refrigerator of his cottage, despite knowing that the victims' cottages in the previous cases were investigated where possible and that, since Hajime and Chiaki knew about the Hope's Peak Academy files that he won in the previous chapter, they would surely check his cottage for them if nothing else. As A Result: Hajime and Chiaki find the bottle and eventually figure out the true cause of death. Once the students determine what Nagito's true gambit is, Chiaki outs herself as the spy and is eventually executed (along with Monomi), and Nagito's plan completely backfires (which turns out to be a good thing in the end, but he didn't know that).

The proposed solution is impossible for two reasons. First is that he had no means of destroying the bottle without leaving traces and he couldn't just throw it away without breaking the "no littering rule" (enforced by Monokuma with a machine gun). The second is that he didn't use up all of the poison and it couldn't be stored outside of the fridge as it was extremely volatile and even the vapors were deadly. If he hid it somewhere on the island, it would've been found when the students were frantically searching for the bomb and the vapors might've killed someone before Komaeda's suicide in which case he'd become the blackened and his plan would've gone out of the window. He had no choice but to keep the leftovers in the fridge. Getting rid of the label is also an issue, as someone might've opened the bottle to check the content and he couldn't guarantee it wouldn't be the FF agent. (Remember that Nanami was the agent, and she had taste-tested a glue once)

  • Nagito Komaeda wants to postpone the school's practical exams so his classmates can have more time to grieve the deaths of Natsumi and Sato. To do so, he asks Ultimate Pharmacist Seiko Kimura for a laxative with which he can poison the exam proctors. She directs him to a certain drug in the next room over, but when Nagito goes to get it, he trips and gets the drug mixed up with a steroid. You'd Expect: For him to check with Seiko to make sure he took the right drug. Instead: He decides simply to trust his own luck. The Result: He takes the steroid. Although he still accomplishes his goal due to his insane luck, his actions get Seiko, Ruruka Andou and Sonosuke Izayoi expelled from Hope's Peak.

It would be stupid for anyone else, but it's Komaeda we're talking about. For him being lucky isn't a chance, it's a constant. Heck, his whole Gambit Roulette back in DR 2 relied on him being lucky. And it worked, he did postpone the exams, probably better than he'd be able otherwise and without getting himself expelled.

  • Miu Iruma wants to commit a murder to escape the Ultimate Academy. You'd Expect: Since she built an electronic device to control the Exisals under Kokichi's request, to attempt to do a Total Party Kill with that remote to make sure that no class trial is held. Instead: She attempts to kill one person without the help from the Exisals, and risk a class trial. While her murder plan ultimately fails thanks to her planned victim catching on to what she is trying, and manipulating somebody else into killing her in self-defense, that scenario may have never happened if she attempted to kill everybody with the Exisals. Alternatively, You'd Expect: For Miu to trick everyone into going into the virtual world, then log out when nobody's looking. Then, she could go grab a knife or some other weapon and murder all of the other students while they're all in the virtual world. After all, unlike the previous killing games, Monokuma does not put a rule in place against one culprit killing more than two people, and all of the other students being dead means no class trial and no class trial means automatic graduation for Miu. Instead: She wastes this opportunity to off everyone at once and goes along with her flawed plan to murder Kokichi. This, of course, results in her dying instead.

The first option is impossible because the Exisal hangar wasn't open until after her death. The only Exisals outside were the ones used by the cubs, who definitely wouldn't let her use them. The second option is doable but risky. Just one student not willing to go in, or logging out before she's done with the bloodbath and the plan goes out of the window. Miu's plan was much better and the only flaw was that Kokichi saw through it, which would most likely be the case in case of the alternative.

  • According to the mastermind, all of the personalities of the students were modified by her personally for the sake of keeping the show interesting. It's possible that the mastermind herself has had her personality modified by the Greater Scope Villains, but if this is true than either way this ends with a logic hole. You'd Expect: For none of the students to be given any kind of personality traits that would make them capable of outsmarting the mastermind or likely to target her as a victim. Instead: Kokichi Oma is made extremely intelligent to the point of becoming a Magnificent Bastard, Korekiyo Shinguji is made a Serial Killer who only kills girls, supposedly has nearly 100 victims, and considers all the female students except Miu and Maki adequate "friends" for his deceased sister, Miu Iruma is made a genius inventor who could (and does) create gadgets to break the killing game with, and Kaede Akamatsu is made charismatic enough to prevent everyone from committing murder even after they are offered a "First Blood Perk" to escape without a Class Trial, and later threatened with the deaths of everyone if a murder doesn't happen. The Result: Both Kokichi and Kaito end up crafting a murder that even the mastermind can't figure out, forcing her to change her plans on the fly while floundering about to find ways of keeping the audience entertained as everyone tries to figure out just who killed who.

The entry assumes that the mastermind being beaten isn't what she wanted. As it's pointed out, the show is meant to be interesting, and The Bad Guy Wins generally isn't a satisfying ending, meaning the mastermind expected to lose at some point. This is pointed out in-game, the audience wants the hope to win, which is why Tsugumi wanted to give them what they wanted and lose in a spectacular fashion, which is why Shuichi chose to throw away the entire hope vs despair conflict alltogether.

NNinja Since: Sep, 2015
Apr 26th 2020 at 6:53:42 AM •••

  • Sayaka is planning to murder someone in order to escape and save her idol friends. She swaps rooms with Makoto, intending to lead someone into "her" room, kill them, and pin it on Makoto. You'd Expect: For her to go after someone who wouldn't put up much of a fight. Even with a knife, it's not impossible for someone to A) Overpower her and kill her. B) Bring a weapon themselves and kill her. C) Survive the encounter, run away and then tell everyone what she tried to do. As such, you'd expect her to go for someone smaller and/or weaker, like Hifumi, Chihiro, Toko, or Junko.note  Instead: She goes after Leon, an athlete is who is likely one of the physically strongest of the class. As a Result: Leon overpowers and kills her.
Several problems with that. For starters, she may have chosen Leon because she expected him to think with the lower head, which wouldn't be likely for any of the mentioned here. Someone else might've been suspicious about getting an invitation in the middle of the night especially when the situation is pretty tense already and not come at all. And secondly, the fact that a Nice Girl like Sayaka is considering murdering someone AT ALL is a sign that she's not thinking clearly. Her plan was half-assed in general because she was an emotional mess at the time.
  • Leon is in the process of disposing of the evidence that connects him to Sayaka's death. After taking his bloody shirt to the garbage disposal room, he finds that the incinerator is thirty feet behind a giant gate that he's incapable of opening. You'd Expect: Leon would come up with a different way of hiding or destroying the evidence. Instead: Not only does Leon rely on an incinerator he couldn't even reach, leaving him with only one shot at flinging the evidence in the fire and no chance to retrieve anything that misses, but he hits the ON switch by chucking something at it from behind the gate, a feat that requires major skill and links the crime to his baseball stardom. Even Worse: Instead of using a projectile that could be mistaken for trash and ignored, he uses Hiro's crystal ball, which would draw attention to his methods even if the thing didn't shatter on impact.
This is a perfect example of the Perfect Solution Fallacy. The issue here is that the entry doesn't even propose an alternative other than a vague "something else". As far as I can tell there was no other method of destroying the evidence other than the incinerator, and the cracked glass ball COULD be conceivably mistaken for trash so his plan wasn't bad, just not good enough.

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TravisTouchdown Since: May, 2011
Apr 27th 2020 at 6:33:47 PM •••

I'm not sure about the Sayaka entry. On one hand, the fact that she was able to pre-meditate a murder with the room switching gambit suggests that she had the presence of mind that she should have been capable of thinking her choice of target through. This wasn't a spur of the moment killing like, say, Mondo. On the other, the fact that it takes a matter of hours (at most) between her seeing her motive video (and subsequent breakdown) and putting her plan in motion also suggests a crime of passion, which excuses how poorly thought out it is. So... I dunno.

But as far as the second example goes:

  • There were ways for Leon to at least hide the evidence if not destroy it; the first that comes to mind would have been hiding it in his room, which was not only locked but, like all of the student's rooms minus the crime scene, was never searched. While not a perfect plan it would have been less likely to have been sniffed out than using a method that only he could feasibly use.
  • The glass debris was really obvious, if for no other reason than it was almost certainly the remains of an item that belonged to Hiro and was now missing. There was also nothing else that feasibly have left that much glass behind.
  • The main things to take away from the entry are that Leon's method a) left him with only one shot and no way to recover if he screwed it up (which it did, with the sleeve that fell out), b) left the fact that it was used to destroy the evidence obvious since he couldn't turn it back off, c) was something only he could feasibly accomplish (the other times in the series an Ultimate talent plays a direct role in the murder/cleanup there's attempts to obscure it), and d) was so likely to backfire that pretty much anything he could have come up with would have been less likely to blow up in his face.

I feel like his attempt to dispose of the evidence is so inherently flawed that it belongs here, and since the way he killed Sayaka was explicitly called out in-universe for being at least slightly pre-meditated because of him going back to get his toolkit I don't think we can or should give him the same benefit of the doubt as Sayaka.

Edited by TravisTouchdown
NNinja Since: Sep, 2015
Apr 28th 2020 at 3:48:50 AM •••

You're kinda falling into a hindsight bias here. Leon's room wasn't searched, but that's no reason to assume it wouldn't be. From the get-go, almost everyone assumed Makoto did it because Sayaka died in his room, but Leon thought it was her room at the time. If Sayaka died in her own room, there would be no suspect and saying "everyone, open your rooms, we'll search them for evidence" would be sensible. And if someone found a bloody shirt in his own room, he'd be screwed. The incinerator leaves at least some room for debate. "You don't know for sure that the glass is from Hiro's ball, he's an idiot, he could've lost it anywhere" "You don't know that the incinerator wasn't on, Hifumi might've just forgotten". Glass isn't as obvious as you make it to be, because in order to connect the dots someone would've had to know both that Hiro's ball was lost (Hiro knew, but, again, he's an idiot, he wouldn't have guessed it's connected to the murder) and that there were the glass shards there (Hifumi was in charge and he's not very social, he wouldn't be talking with Hiro about his ball). Keep in mind that only Makoto thought about searching the dumpster and he's the only other person who knew Hiro lost his ball. And keep in mind that if the shirt was burned completely just like Leon wanted, it's extremely unlikely someone would've connected the incinerator to the murder and even if they did, they'd have no proof.

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