Discussion Series / TheMandalorian

Probably the former.

Yeah, Real Life Writes the Hairstyle being trivia, this info would fit well in it.

Top of the page; the only reason the link is written out is due to a bug in the site's programming and the fact it's displayed as a custom title to be a number is all the evidence you need.

Just put it back at the top of the page. It's confusing, but it's the correct placement.

Yeah, and I said much the same for my edit reason.

I'm not expecting any real objection. Only wish we could have hashed this out before things escalated but w/e.

Do we have explicit rules on number-based tropes when alphabetizing?

Edit: Looks like we do: How to Alphabetize Things

Cool. [thumbsup] I'll keep that link in mind in case something similar ever comes up.

I see the example's already been restored, so I'll go back to wiki walking.

I threw in a null edit quoting the specific rule just in case Overfiend comes back and doesn't see this discussion. I also sent a PM via an Indentation notifier (not exactly correct but close as anything else) so to explain the situation, provide the urls to the this discussion, the Administrivia page, and an Ask The Tropers thread that brought this to my own attention.

I think we should just treat Din, Djarin, Din Djarin, Mando, and the Mandalorian as pretty much interchangeable, first come first served, unless there are, say, other Mandalorians to distinguish him from.

Updated the description, just to clarify, hopefully that's alright. I just went with my original suggestion from the ATT, but maybe we could adjust the phrasing or place it elsewhere in the description.

I can't say I'm surprised. Though her posts were far from what I like, I'm not happy. Even aside from the issue with her personally (does this really help? There has to be a better solution) it might mess up the show. I hope they find a way to gracefully right out her character at least.

I'd say of all the recurring characters, she's easily the most expendable. To the point it's more weird that she continued to have a role; she had her arc and became a successful Marshal for the New Republic. All they have to do is say "she went back to work."

I hadn't heard about her offscreen presence until just now. Disappointing to find out, I kinda liked her. That first comment about shouting in the middle of the street, though, for months on end, that's pretty much dead-on. But easy enough to write out. I was surprised when she came back for as many episodes as she did.

I guess it seemed like she might be a recurring role, but yeah in retrospect it's not that hard.

Hmm. Just saying you might want to inform them if you've moved this.

I put a reply on the end of the "Ask the Troper" thread, but is there a way to individually ping people/is that polite? (I'm new here lol)

I think that probably counts. PMing everyone individually (you can click on their portrait and there's a Send Message button along the top) can probably wait, like if you go a day or two without a response, for instance.

The entries probably just need to be pared down and made more neutral (and less speculative) in both directions.

I wonder if there's a better trope that the description could be put under rather than "Cult", because on rereading the main trope page, the Tribe just doesn't really fit other than the most superficial levels of "lives in secret" and "they go kind of overboard with modesty and privacy". No authoritarian leader, no "try to leave and we kill you", no goals of world domination, no weird sex stuff or human sacrifice, no crackdowns on dissent... granted, all of this stuff could be happening offscreen, but we aren't exactly led to believe that there's unsavory goings-on beyond the clan Vizsla insignia on the flashback Mandos and, again, Bo-Katan's statement. Is there a trope for "culturally insular group"?

To be completely fair, many real life cults are not any of the things you described. Most IRL religious movements that are classified as "cults" are held together more by peer pressure and indoctrination to fanaticism than actively threatening members with death if they leave, though that is something that happens in more extreme cults. A cult doesn't have to be flagrantly malicious to be a cult, it just has to be highly dogmatic and isolated from outside influence (heck, broadly speaking every world religion can be technically be classified as a cult if you stretch the definition a bit).

I think that's why most people take Bo-Katan at her word; the Children of the Watch don't fit the pop-culture "creepy evil sex murder" version of a cult, but from what we've seen in comparison to other Mando groups they very much fit the more mundane "real world" cult archetype of a dogmatic, highly-insular religious group that discourages contact with the outside world and tries to operate in secrecy (Djarin is notably one of the only members who regularly goes outside; I recall either the Armorer or Paz mentions they only leave their hidden base one person at a time).

The thing that sold it for me personally is how Djarin at first can't even concieve that a Mandalorian would ever remove their helmet in front of someone else when he meets Bo-Katan to the point of a mini-Freak Out, when we've seen clearly in other media that removing your helmet whenever is the norm for most Mandalorians. Deliberately isolating members from alternate viewpoints and basic knowledge of the outside while teaching them that your beliefs are the only acceptable way is textbook cult tactics.

It doesn't have to check all the boxes, and the covert does hit a few of them. Tropes are flexible, and Cult is a pretty broad trope. But a cult doesn't actually have to have all the negative, controlling, exploitative aspects, they just often do in fiction (and in real life, just because it's an easy, proven way to manipulate people).

I think as a small, secretive religious group, we do have to at least acknowledge the enclave is a cult on some level. It's more than that, largely benign and even heroic from what we see, and it differs from other cults in that it's also a tribal refugee group. The entry should mention that, and some of the current text probably does belong under another trope if it's not just YMMV/WMG. But I do think cult is the right trope, or at least I don't know a more specific subtrope.

Edit: Ninja'd. But I'll also just mention I tried my hand at drafting something more neutral. Could still use some further paring down:

• Cult: The Mandalorians of the covert on Nevarro are something of a benign cult, in many ways more like a small tribe of refugees, mostly made up of survivors and foundlings brought into the fold during the Clone Wars. The first season portrays them heroically, flying to the rescue when the Empire lays siege to the town. Highly secretive, they consider themselves the Last of Their Kind and ascribe religious trappings to their weapons, armor, and the rare alloy known as beskar steel. They also never remove their armor in front of anyone, including each other, especially their helmets. The second season reveals that other surviving Mandalorians consider sects like Djarin's to be religious extremists — Bo-Katan calls them the Children of the Watch (suggesting a possible connection with Death Watch), and she and her followers freely unmask in public and, at least in Bo-Katan's case, are far more pragmatic about abiding by the terms of their deals.

^ Yeah, my thoughts essentially. The Watch very much tick the boxes for a cult from both a narrative and a real-life "dogmatically isolating its members" perspective, but as I said cults aren't always inherently evil or malicious, just dogmatic and insular, and the Watch very much strikes me as one of the most morally nuanced fictional cults I've ever seen (and one of my favorites as a result).

EDIT: Also yeah that entry looks great to me!

Thanks! And yeah, there's a whole discussion to be had about how every new religion starts out as a cult, and maybe their legitimacy should be decided based on how they treat people in and outside of their membership, rather than their size. Just not on the main page, heh.

As mentioned there is some information in the previous version of the entry that we could probably still find a place for. About how many of the Watch's traditions are based in pragmatism, and how they're trying to preserve their way of life, not indoctrinating people into their beliefs for the sake of growing their numbers. Ancient Tradition and Appeal to Tradition might be useful for the latter? I can't think of a trope for the former.

Bump. I'll just replace the cult entry for now. It's a wiki, it can still be edited further as needed.

Most likely.

I also can't decide if it seems fair or not to list Werner Herzog, Nick Nolte, and Taika Waititi among the "stars" if it feels all but certain that they won't appear after S1.

Maybe divide the list of stars up by season once we get a better idea of who the major cast of Season 2 are.

I've already posted a reply there, but I'll repost it here in case anyone else wants to chime in.

I think the following fits the overall tone of the first few episodes at least (badass bounty hunter becomes a bounty himself):

Stuff that happens in the first episode are usually left unmarked after a few episodes. The baby while being a surprise for the first episode is also a main character, it would mean basically every trope on the page would need to be spoilered.

Hmm yeah, I think that makes sense for a first episode plot twist, plus the twist has somewhat become known. I think I'll be in favor of having the baby plot twist unmarked. I'd like some input on this so we can make a guideline for the page.

Troping isn't a guessing game. We catalog tropes that occur in works that have been released to the public, not tropes that we think MIGHT happen in works that we haven't seen.

Problem is, we don't have much of anything to go on. We know next to nothing about the character at the centre of the show, never mind the others or the plot of the show itself. All the promotional material released so far is very slim on details. Not to mention the show isn't slated to be released until November 12 at the earliest (and not widely-available outside of America; it could well be 2020 before we get it in my country) and episodes will be released on a week-by-week basis, which means even when we do get more information it's likely to be in a slow trickle unless Disney releases some kind of SUPER-spoileriffic trailer or information before then.

There's far more to speculate on than to know right now.

I mean, if the hidden entries really are just straight-up speculation unsupported by the material (like trailers) that have been released to the public, then it should be deleted.

I just didn't want to go on a deleting spree without giving folks who've been paying closer attention to the marketing than I have a chance to speak up.

Looks more like the problem is we have SOME information but not enough for properly detailed examples.