Linking to a past Trope Repair Shop thread that dealt with this page: Paper is an element?
, started by Servbot on Oct 3rd 2010 at 2:02:50 PM
I think that plastic/ polymers/ rubber would be a great addition to the list. Moreover for water... further detailed inclusion such as surface water/ ground water/ sea water manipulation would be more elaborate. Similar with Earth/ solid variants, Liquid properties such as solutions, suspensions, colloids and dispersion (aerosols, sols, emulsion, gel) would be more profound. How about fabric, pearls/ minerals/ gemstones manipulation?
Edited by brenfraser
Okay, I'm fine with everything else on the page being qualified as an "element", but "Animals" and "Machines" really don't seem to qualify. Anyone else agrees that they should be removed from the list ?
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These are fairly odd, yeah.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
an intruder
Suggestion: since Mud counts as its own element now, I think Sand can be added as its own element too?
Do You Understand? Hide / Show Replies
A character in Naruto uses it and its an element in Bionicle, so I don't see why not.
Not to mention Max Alors who part of the Fairy Tail Guild, and Crocodile from One Piece. Both of them used Sand powers
Is there any actual source for those 12 Norse elements? Because I can't find anything on them except for other people trying to find a source for them.
Naruto has "Swift Release", which is basically that. To count it should be treated as an element instead of just a random superpower, so The Flash wouldn't count.
(Not) A Game Master
Since when has "Psychic" and "Illusion" been commonly used as an element? Really everything on the list is fine besides that, but I can't name a series that uses Psychic as an element besides Pokemon and neither can I name any series which uses Illusion as an element..
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I would like to see explosions, or beast/creature as an element.
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I'd like to see heat as its own element. Is there one, or is it just listed as part of Playing with Fire?
Explosion might fit, now that Having a Blast is a trope and kind of fits as a subset of Fire, much like Ice is a subset of Water and Metal is a subset of Earth. Heat would be kind of good, but is there a trope for that?
PaperMaster
I removed this bit from the description, since it is already quite in-depth and doesn't need further bloating.
. This Conceptual Reconstruction requires that you either count plasma as a fourth phase (as opposed to being a subset of gas) or correspond fire to energy, particularly the heat energy that moves matter from one state to another. Adding Vacuum, which is the lack of matter, produces the Japanese interpretation.
Another possible modern interpretation, combining the different elemental traditions, can be based on the structure of substances on an atomic level. Earth is ceramics (sand, rocks, pottery, salt). Metal is, well, metal. Water is (small) molecular substances (a weak link, because while some of these substances like water itself and alcohol are fluid at room temperature and standard pressure others are gases like carbon dioxide or solids like aspirin). Wood is polymers (including lignin and cellulose which make up wood, as well as enzymes and DNA, and of course rubber and modern plastics). Air is molecules consisting of a single element (N2 and O2 are by far the most important ingredients of our atmosphere) and elements that occur in pure atomic form (noble gases). Fire could once again be plasma, ionized gas. Materials that can be classed as a glass unfortunately fall all over the place, in earth, wood or even water depending on what they're made of.
The analysis page might be suitable for it, if anyone feels strongly about it.
"If you aren't him, then you apparently got your brain from the same discount retailer, so..." - Fighteer
Would Entropy and Chaos Magic, Psychic Powers, and Technopathy qualify as elemental powers?
Edited by 99.117.60.21 Hide / Show Replies
I wouldn't think so, until you'd extend considerably the definition of "elemental".
Sure, those vary, there are often an Element No. 5 added, but since no two works can agree on which it is, it can't be generalized. If a work, for example, use the old "etheric" concept as a fifth element, then psychic powers could fall into it, but only within said work.
Edited by 92.136.63.88
Nah, Elemental Powers concerns itself with traditional elements mainly. These things aren't elements by most consideration.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
It occurs to me that four renewable types of energy seem to correspond to the four elemental powers: Solar (Fire), Wind (Air), Hydroelectric (Water), and Geothermal (Earth).
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The Sun is actually a very big nuclear reactor, albeit one that uses Hydrogen instead of Urranium. So Nuclear would (also) be part of Fire
No. Just... no.
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Aye, very bad comparison. Nuclear is not a chemical reaction, hence not a fire.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Is there a trope where one uses Life itself to cause harm to other beings as well as to corrupt and kill the land as well?
Life should be connected with Death? Nature/Wood go together, but Life overlaps with Light, Nature, and Soul.
I think it should go with Death because a person who can give life can also take it away (depending on whether they are good or evil, the bringing back part can look like necromancy or resurrection, and the death part can be like smiting or something creepy). And we'd need a trope Life And Death (catchy, and it represents basically what the trope is about).
I once tried using the Chinese elements (earth, fire, water, wood, metal) but ended up using air instead of fire for whatever reason. I actually decided to make the "nobody got fire" thing into a running joke about how everyone wants fire, but no one was deemed responsible enough to control it. Also:
Edited by Stoogebie
I am someone. Maybe.
Why does everyone seem to assume that Soul Power is an inherently evil/dark power? Maybe this is my fault for describing it badly, but there's nothing evil about being able to talk to/summon spirits, which is really the base ability for it. Most of the times I've seen it, it's portrayed neutrally, honestly.
And it has nothing to do with darkness, so I don't get what is up with people linking to Dark Is Not Evil and Dark Is Evil for it. It can potentially overlap with darkness if it's an evil power, but it usually doesn't have a lot to do with darkness.
"Would you stake your life on a world that cannot be saved?" -The Reconstruction Hide / Show Replies
Drawingmans
I am honestly getting sick and tired of everyone and their dog yapping on about how "hahha fire isn't an element!". Earth, Air and Water are not elements either. (They might be a combination of elements, but not ones themselves)
"After all, not every serious member of the Occult Underground is ravaged, perverted, desperate, or manic; just most." Hide / Show Replies
Yes, thank you. Earth itself is a vast combination of elements, water combines hydrogen and oxygen, and air (which is actually sometimes called wind) is not an element either. In fact, if you're going to call it "wind", it's definitely not an element, as wind is basically air'' but moving.
They're elements if the writers want them to be. simple as that. IT'S FICTION. REAL WORLD PHYSICS DO NOT NECESSARILY APPLY.
TARDISES. I think Jenx was refering to the passage on the page (that I just removed) saying that fire isn't an element because it is a chemical reaction, which is true, but by that logic, none of the classical elements are scientific elements. Water is a compound, fire is chemical reaction, and the other two are mixtures.
Stoogebie, I understand what you mean e.g. it would be weird to call call Earth "Shift"or Water "Flow", but you have to admit that the ability to create or destroy the movement of air is basically what all the people with this kind of power are all about. Would it still be unreasonable if the other elements were called Quake, Tide, and Blaze?
Come to think of it, I kind of like the sound of that...
Edited by RockTallBull
I have been thinking of this too and came too the conclusion that its more about controling a state of matter then the element themselves like: Earth = Solid; Water = Liquid; Wind = Gas; Fire/Ligthning = Plasma
Edited by Kiefen
Rock Tall Bull, I think it would be rather cool if those elements were referred to as "Quake" "Tide" "Blaze" and "Shift". Or something. Maybe I should think of doing a story like that...
Yup, I was about to ask the same thing. And I disagree. First, the guy who edited them may not like them, but this doesn't mean that other people share his view. Second: he should have asked before changing it.
Edited by Ryuuma
Writer, Artist, Ignored
Aren't we overreaching the definition if the term "element" a little, especially for this page? I mean how the hell did "Season" and "Beast" get on there without complaint? Those aren't even close to be typical elements. Hell, I can just barely let Arcane, Poison, and Radiation slide.
When have stories take the concept so far? Besides the obvious of Pokemon using Poison I mean. everything else just seems like shoehorning to make everything an "element".
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I just turned "Arcane" into "Energy". However, I think we need to get rid of Seasons and Beast.
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MagBas
The Pokemon character pages are using Wrestler in All of Us as an Elemental Power (And originally, used Charles Atlas Superpower) . Only to be sure: is this a misuse?
Edited by MagBas
Okay, so the list specifies which sorts of people use what elements most of the time, but I'm surprised that the Knife Nut isn't one candidate to use Extra-ore-dinary. If that's the case, then I'm apparently doing something different. (I mean that in a good way, of course!)
Edited by Stoogebie
No Dragon Power
How come it's neve Earth Fire wind water Normal?
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No Dragon Power
How dos one fight using seasons?
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Well... my interpretation of it is some sort of weather control with a dash of whatever element is associated with the season that's happening then (like, nature for spring, heat for summer). But that's just me.
No Dragon Power
I think the Elaments are gitting out of hand.
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Still if you account for Soul being the opposite of Void in some works(see the webcomic Patchwork Heroes) every element has its opposite except paper. Maybe an ink element? Consider Naruto Shippuden.
The Cosmopolitan Fictioneer
Although I do recognize "Heart" as a common Elemental Power, The Heart article actually describes a personality trait. Something needs to be done.
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Power of Love is only one aspect of the "Heart" element. There's also Power of Friendship, and maybe Power of Trust. Maybe we should YKTTW Power Of The Heart?
Fiat iustitia, et pereat mundus.
Per TRS
, pats of the description were moved to Natural Elements.
Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.