Cain is Blackadder and Jurgen is Baldrick. It makes a ridiculous amount of sense if you think about it. This also means that Blackadder itself is set in the past of the 40k universe...which is probably a poison oak epileptic tree if you think about it.
- Like everything else in the galaxy, Baldrick has clear taken several levels in badass. Also Blackadder respects him an whole lot more now.
- At some point the bloodlines of the Blackadders and the Flashhearts intermingled, creating a cunning magnificent bastard who is suddenly capable of superhuman acts of bravery when the time is right.
- Like everything else in the galaxy, Baldrick has clear taken several levels in badass. Also Blackadder respects him an whole lot more now.
- He really is the Divine Will of the Emperor, by the way, but he tries not to think about that.
- He isn't, but he convinced the universe he is. His faked death was a plan to defeat Tzeentch.
- Nah hes the choosen one of Yzeentch if not his mortal Avatar to spread hope and progress to the imperium that is trying to stay dark and miserable, also to make the God Emperor look bad.
- Did you really think that he's listed on active duty despite his own funeral for reasons of paperwork? No, this is a sign to the faithful to have hope.
- I think he downplays his heroics not because he's modest (or just modest), but because he's desperately trying (and failing) to downplay his abilities so that he doesn't get sent to the front lines of the crapsackiest of Crapsack Worlds all the time.
- Possibly he is himself convinced that courage means total foolhardiness, and that his evident prudence is not a virtue but actually cowardice.
- This is hardly inconsistent with the prevailing culture of the Imperium. The Guard encourages its troops to view themselves as expendable because they plan to expend them in human wave attacks; the Inquisition places practically no value on human life and the official line of propaganda is that any amount of death is worth it if the mission is accomplished. The church goes on and on about death in the service of the Emperor. Most of the major institutions of the Imperium do tell the average Imperial citizen to take loyalty to the Emperor to the point of near-suicidal foolhardiness; why should Cain be any different?
- I find that Cain's narratives are often filled with examples of 'he doth protest too much.' Think about it, every time Cain takes actions that are pretty obviously going to put him at risk or are genuinely heroic, he goes out of his way to justify it with some way overly elaborate excuse as to why it was a good decision from the coward's point of view Every. Single. Time. As someone else previously noted, Cain just has a strong sense of self-preservation, for both him and the people he's leading, which leads to some serious Values Dissonance in the WH40K universe. The only other explanations are that Cain's judgment as far as keeping himself from danger is ridiculously poor, or that he's trying so hard to avoid danger that his efforts actually end up as counterproductive, putting him in more danger than he would be in otherwise, neither of which seem to jive with just how competent Cain is when the chips are down. Adding to this is the fact that in spite of how he describes his actions in his character defining monologue (enshrined on the Fake Ultimate Hero page), when we get direct descriptions of Cain in action, he always seems to be in the thick of it, going toe to toe with the enemies of the Emperor, occasionally in close combat, and is rarely ever found hiding behind cover, just waiting for the shooting to stop, although he always seems to go out of his way to find or invent extenuating circumstances that justify why he wasn't engaging in his "favorite tactic."
- Whatever goes on in his head Cain's reflexes are heroic. When the ice gives way under Penlan he grips her wrist more tightly and ends up getting pulled down with her. When a cave-in seals him off from his Guards he tries to dig through the rubble to them. His unthinking reactions are as selfless as his reputation.
- Consider: Logash goes insane upon seeing the Necrons. At first he's giddy, viewing them as religious guardians of sacred mysteries, but his tune changes once they slaughter the rest of his cogboy companions. So far, so good. After the trauma, he leaves the ice planet and quietly rises a bit in the ranks. He eventually ends up on serving on Mars. But not just anywhere. Oh no, his last known assignment is in the Noctis Labyrinthus. For those who know Warhammer 40k lore, it's a bit obvious where it goes from there, but I'll spell it out. The techpriests worship the Omnissiah, a machine god who they claim is an aspect of the Emperor. However, there is evidence that the Omnissiah is in fact one of the C'Tan called the Void Dragon. The C'Tan are the masters and creators of the Necrons. Even better, the Void Dragon is said to rest - where else - on Mars in the Noctis Labyrinthus. In other words, Logash ends up in the best place in the universe to get more acquainted with the Necrons and get more intimate with the man downstairs.
- Further guess: this is exactly what the author wanted us to deduce from that footnote... Heck, it's practically canon.
- Amberly probably doesn't know this (or any Inquisitor in fact) or all the tech-priests would probably killed for worshiping what is basically a Necron god. Still, Mitchell couldn't have written this without knowing the lore. Still very odd. It is odd how Amberly thinks she can judge how Tech-Priests preform in their order what with Inquisitors limited access to tech-priest knowledge.
- don't forget to mention the guardsman in question just so happens to live withing spitting distance of the Shadowlights hiding place.
- It fits within Inquisitorial reasoning, too. Not only do their prized veterans get a comfortable retirement, but their presence adds additional security if the Shadowlight is threatened.
- I've always assumed that to be the source of some of his issues, mostly the smell. There is also the fact that Jurgen's effect only works on Cain when he can smell him.
- This theory seems quite possible. Similarily, in the Ravenor series, Wystan Frauka is a deeply unpleasant (not evil, just rude, boorish, and arrogant) person. But he has his blank limiter, so that may well shoot this one.
- Alizabeth Bequin, despite being a very attractive woman, has similar (but somewhat more mild) problems to Jurgen in the Eisenhorn trilogy. So yes, I think the blank status has something to do with it.
- This is confirmed by the rules for the blank character trait in the 40K tabletop RPG Dark Heresy. Characters with this trait, along with their blank aspects, receive a penalty to their Fellowship characteristic. This is similar to the Charisma stat from Dungeons & Dragons, as it affects social skills. Hence why Jurgan is the way he is.
- Also confirmed from Bequin's POV.
- Possibly undermined as Cain has noted on several occasions where his sense of smell was impaired (either by wearing a gas mask or the cold), Jurgen snuck up on him due to the lack of smell, implying it may be a purely mundane case of body odour.
- If Dead in the Water is considered canon, this one is sorta-Jossed — Cain and Jurgen kill a squad of Nurglite-corrupted troopers and blow an ancient temple to Nurgle to the Golden Throne.
- Cain and Jurgen fought against Nurglites in The Beguiling as well, though the primary threat of that short story was a Slaaneshi witch.
- Old Soldiers Never Die involved a fight against a Nurgle cult.
The loss of Simia Orchalchae was considered acceptable by the Deceiver. He had all the pieces in place, and was willing to bank on the future potential of his strategic pawns. Moreover, giving Cain the win there would cement the legend that was being created around him. The defenses of Adumbria and of the Shadowlight bear out this assessment. At this point, the cycle has become self-sustaining and requires only minimal upkeep from the Deceiver himself. Cain will defend his reputation and drag Jurgen along to defend his life simply out of habit. There was only one crucial situation, in Cain's Last Stand, where the situation was too urgent for subtlety and the Deceiver tipped his hand with the too-timely Necron counteroffensive. It's part of the Deceiver's plan to keep Cain and Jurgen alive as long as reasonably possible. As long as they exist, they'll keep getting thrown into situations where they can royally gum up the works for Chaos.
Basically, Cain is an Unwitting Pawn in the best way. It's the point of the exercise for him to be the primary beneficiary of this grand scheme, despite the fact that Jurgen is it's primary enabler. By building up the figure of the dashing, heroic Commissar Cain, Deceiver uses him as a smoke screen to draw attention away from Jurgen.
- Actually, not terribly unlikely. Cain encounters some (stereotypical) Sisters of Battle during Duty Calls and he is clearly not particularly impressed. Nor is Amberley Vail, who frequently makes snarky digs at the expense of excessive and blundering, kill-em-all-and-let-the-Emperor-sort-'em-out style Inquisitors.
- Objectively, the depiction of the setting is just as GRIMDARK as any other. Servitors are mentioned causally, war, destruction and death are constants, there is always a new enemy lurking around the corner and almost always a second one just behind them, fanaticism and relentless propaganda are the norm (Vail casually comments once about a children's book she read that depicts heretics being immolated with flamethrowers) and entire planets are regularly on the brink of destruction. Basically the only thing that is different is Cain himself, both his humourous narrative and preternatural skill and competence, both preventing the more devastating aspects common to the setting from occuring and shielding the reader from the ones that do. In effect, Cain creates his own bubble that temporarily nullifies the GRIMDARK (as if we needed more evidence that he truly is the Hero of the Imperium).
- Really, the comments here are both true. It's definitely a Crapsack World matching that of a lot of other novels, but unlike some of the more overheated descriptions in game materials, the Guard units and planets Cain deals with are neither mismanaged into the ground nor exploited to the point that Chaos starts looking preferable.
- Speaking as an out-of-universe observer who has read his writings...That's not that much of an impossibility.
- He's certainly got a behavioral resemblance to Gideon.
- Technically canon. Amberly mentions a sect that worships Cain as prophet of the Emperor. Note that she specifically calls them a sect, not a group of heretics or a cult. Meaning that they've been endorsed by the Ecclesiarchy as a legitimate, and legal, form of worship.
- Alternately, Jurgen is not only the Anti-Haruhi, but Kyon as well. Both are laid back, natural followers, similarly bland features, and share the astonishing ability to secure something that at least resembles normality despite the chaotic worlds they live in. And you can just go wild from there...
- From The Last Ditch.
Ciaphas Cain (to Jurgen): "I doubt the Emperor Himself could have slowed that one down."
Jurgen: "Probably not, sir, ..."
A bit of dry humor there from the Emperor Himself? - Alternatively, Jurgen is one of the Missing Primarchs; his jaunt through the Warp not only resulted in him becoming a Blank but shrunk him considerably, though keeping his skill and resilience intact. Being a Blank, not even the Emperor could detect him and he remained undiscovered, the Legion derived from him collapsing due to lack of geneseed and he only learns about the Imperium and the Emperor long after the Horus Heresy. He thus decides to join the Imperial Guard and fight against the enemies of humanity in the Emperor's name, devoted totally to Him and His doctrine (not knowing that Imperial Doctrine and the Emperor's Doctrine are not quite the same thing). Eventually he endeavours to locate promising individuals and assist them in any way he can, protecting them and bolstering their reputation to ensure that they can fight and lead unhindered, from Thor to Macharius to maybe even Creed, Cain one of a long line of Heroes of the Imperium he has served without notice.
- Stuck on the Golden Throne, immobile, for 10000 years... no wonder he has such a fascination for porno slates.
- When you consider the number of hairbreadth escapes and remarkable coincidences that regularly befall both Cain and Jurgen this theory seems quite believable.
- Presumably the experiences of Big Boss's other incarnations in the intervening centuries enabled him to work the Blood Knight out of his system.
- It's presumable that this is also shaped by their different experiences within the military. Boss was betrayed by his government, and grew kinda bitter. Ciaphas was treated with (tanna) tea, dumplings, and insane battlefields. But they definately have the same fighting spirit, and fairly similar tactics (Boss's M1911A1 and CQC knife is comparable to Cain's Laspistol and Chainsword combination, both tend to try to be sneaky before starting to blow stuff up.
- More probably, he's just finally got his long overdue promotion, and doesn't have to hide the rosette anymore. ;) His "death" was just a cover that allowed the newly baked member of His Divine Majesty's Most Holy Ordo Xenos to continue his service to his Eternal Lord.
- Inquisitor Ciaphas Cain... Emperor help us. Emperor help us all.
- This makes a suspiciously large amount of sense. To take it further, firstly it means they've got an inquisitor who has his head screwed on for a change and wants a more peaceful, safer empire (for himself at least). Add in that Amberley laments in the footnotes of Caves of Ice that the Adeptus Mechanicus is up to something on Mars and wants to know why someone isn't asking the pointed questions; well who do we know that has long and terrifying history of surviving Necrons and mechanical menaces, that isn't intimidated by the mecha-loonies, who can never resist poking his nose in even when he knows he shouldn't, and is bloody cheeky to boot?
- Well, nobody. Cain is intimidated, and his problem isn't "inability to resist poking his nose in," it's "inability to avoid getting his nose poked in." Still, that's quibbling...
- This makes a suspiciously large amount of sense. To take it further, firstly it means they've got an inquisitor who has his head screwed on for a change and wants a more peaceful, safer empire (for himself at least). Add in that Amberley laments in the footnotes of Caves of Ice that the Adeptus Mechanicus is up to something on Mars and wants to know why someone isn't asking the pointed questions; well who do we know that has long and terrifying history of surviving Necrons and mechanical menaces, that isn't intimidated by the mecha-loonies, who can never resist poking his nose in even when he knows he shouldn't, and is bloody cheeky to boot?
- Alternatively, Vail finally snapped from Cain's ever broadening experience of women. Her Clingy Jealous Girl tendencies manifested fully, so she keeps Cain in a gilded prison cell somewhere so she can have him all to herself (and Jurgen on her team).
- The problem with that theory is that if you put the books in chronological order they don't mention any other lovers after he met Amberly. Of course that doesn't mean that there weren't any (Amberly is editing the books after all) but it does kind of argue against the theory.
- Hero worship, yes, but there's no evidence of a crush— more like she sees him as a father figure.
- Subtle indication that she is- think of any female character who is interested in Ciaphas Cain and vice versa who is not Amberley Vail. They are all negatively portrayed (Ms Tayber is a Genki Girl Geek, etc.) Who's editing the papers with the power of changing the characterization of certain characters? And is also a little jealous?
- A better point on the theory that Amberley is editing the details of Cain's love life in his memoirs is the fact that every single story in which Cain has a lover who is not Amberley takes place before they meet. Then the question is whether this is because Cain became monogamous after meeting Amberley, whether Amberley has edited out all scenes where he sleeps with other women after their meeting, or whether she just refuses to publish the stories in which he arguably cheats on her.
- Wait, a genki girl geek is a negative portrayal?
- The person editing the memoirs is not a Genki Girl, she would see it as a negative trait.
- In The Last Ditch Cain describes Sulla's habit of looking at him with slightly glazed eyes and a faint smile... undressing him in her mind?
- One of Vail's footnotes in Choose Your Enemies consists of Vail herself wondering if Sulla had a crush on Cain.
- Subtle indication that she is- think of any female character who is interested in Ciaphas Cain and vice versa who is not Amberley Vail. They are all negatively portrayed (Ms Tayber is a Genki Girl Geek, etc.) Who's editing the papers with the power of changing the characterization of certain characters? And is also a little jealous?
- This would be horrible.
- But hilariously in tune with the grimdark universe.
- Hahaha, yes, this is the best theory. Next time I read the novels I'll see how it works with that reading/textual backing.
- But hilariously in tune with the grimdark universe.
- And their first meeting now resembles how a fangirl would write her favorite character's reaction to her Mary Sue self-insert. Goddammit, you ruined for me!
- Proven wrong because the sexual relationship is implied and its obvious where confirmations were cut out but any self insert fic would imply it would outwright state the events.
- Not conclusive disproof; she could just be an exceptionally subtle and self-restrained Self-Insert Fic author. Note that, although the sexual part of the relationship between her and Cain is never made explicit, the cut outs are timed in such a way that the existence of their sexual relationship is quite unambiguous. In other words, she's doing the literary equivalent of the Sexy Discretion Shot version of Fade to Black.
- Perhaps something like this?
- See, as the original creator of this theory (and a little cheerfully baffled by its apparent popularity), I think it's actually a lot funnier if Amberley is an Inquisitor, not a teenager. Come on, you can't tell me that the idea of an Inquisitor writing self-insert fanfic with her favorite hero isn't absolutely hilarious.
- Also, her character is what you'd expect from that: beautiful, completely badass, wears a suit of golden power armour, has the authority to do pretty what she likes and even has her own starship. Plus, the canon protagonist is love with her and she saves his life a few times. Total Mary Sue self-insert, right?
- Needs a talking animal though.
- Gunner Jurgen, the sidekick that doesn't seem to show up in any other account of Cain's life other than the one Amberly disseminates, doesn't count?
- Also, her character is what you'd expect from that: beautiful, completely badass, wears a suit of golden power armour, has the authority to do pretty what she likes and even has her own starship. Plus, the canon protagonist is love with her and she saves his life a few times. Total Mary Sue self-insert, right?
- It's a clever theory and all, but it suffers from one serious flaw: Vail isn't a major character in most of the stories. A lot of the books take place before she and Cain met, and she only plays a major role in a couple of the ones that are set after they met, and a minor role in one or two more. She's present in all the books as the editor, of course, but not as a major character in the plots of most. So why would a fangirl write a series of self-insert fics into which she does not insert herself?
- Go read Embers (Vathara)}}, How I Became Yours, or just about any Twilight fic, for that matter. Better yet, DON'T. The creepiest Fan Dumb writers don't immediately write lemons about screwing their favorite characters — or if they do, they don't immediately post them. The earlier books are just her Squeeing about him, before she worked up the courage to write herself in.
- Yes, but then she isn't present in many of the later books as well. She just doesn't seem particularly concerned with writing herself into the story. Also, she's hardly squeeing about him at all. Quite the contrary, she depicts him as a selfish coward. Granted, that portrayal is ambiguous, insofar as it's possible, even likely, in my view, that he's just not giving himself enough credit. Nevertheless, it doesn't seem like the way an obsessed fangirl would portray her idol.
- Go read Embers (Vathara)}}, How I Became Yours, or just about any Twilight fic, for that matter. Better yet, DON'T. The creepiest Fan Dumb writers don't immediately write lemons about screwing their favorite characters — or if they do, they don't immediately post them. The earlier books are just her Squeeing about him, before she worked up the courage to write herself in.
- You could build this out to Discworld actually being in the 40k universe. Dangerous Wizards feared and untrusted by all -> Psykers, Dungeon Dimensions inhabited by indescribably unpleasant chittering things -> The Warp with its assorted daemons.
- DEATH must be extremely busy, then.
- He's only the DEATH of the Disc.
- But still an aspect of Azrael; DEATH could have asked a... 'coworker'... to keep an eye out.
- DEATH must be extremely busy, then.
- Likely points for editing include the ends of For The Emperor and Caves Of Ice, and the midpoint of Duty Calls (page 174 in the paperback).
- By this standard, anyone could be a champion of Chaos Undivided... I mean come on, "owns a porn collection" is a mark of being chosen by Slaanesh?
- I would say more his ability to seduce any woman he sees.
- I think we've got some pronoun confusion here — Jurgen is the one with the Porn Stash, Cain is the one with the knack of finding willing bedmates wherever he goes.
- I would say more his ability to seduce any woman he sees.
- Explain "The Last Stand"...
- If you were the true champion of Chaos, would you want some pathetic little Hitler Expy to steal your thunder and muck up your plans?
- In a universe where nearly everyone is tainted by one force or another, these three have managed to remain hopeful, brave, loyal, and basically the nicest people in the Imperium. Cain was even able to resist a Chaos temptation WITHOUT Jurgen's help on a couple of occasions. Amberly attracts and takes in a ragtag group of misfits and actually values them. There is no Warp, WAAGH, or Emperor's Will within those three, but Spiral energy and that's what has saved them all this time.
- Don't believe in Cain! Believe in Jurgen who believes in Cain!
- The weird part is where you decide to apply the parallels:
- Ciaphas is Kamina. Natural talent and an inspiring badass public persona to conceal the fact that he's essentially terrified all the time, ultimately Becoming the Mask.
- Shimon is split between two characters.
- Jurgen is essentially a Shimon who never grew into his own niche. Extraordinary supernatural talent, intense loyalty to his friend, and surprising combat effectiveness mingled with poor social skills and little intellectual cultivation.
- The other half of Shimon, post-timeskip Shimon specifically, goes to Jenit Sulla. Inspiring, capable leader with a penchant for aggressive, damn-the-risk tactics that nonetheless tend to work out anyways.
- Amberley is harder to assign a parallel to.
No one knows where he is from, who his parents are and how the hell he got into the Scholarium to become a Commissar in the first place. He is probably from a Hive World, but no one knows which one. He has an excellent grasp of tactics (think of all those subtle ways he shields himself with troopers!). He is one of the best swordsmen in the Guard, if not the very best. He always, always knows when a bad situations is about to occur. He has an instinctive caring for his subordinates, even though he pretends he doesn't. He's saved worlds from Orks, from Tyranids, often single-handedly. And he has never lost to anyone he had the slimmest chance to win of.
- As much as that idea is terribly appealing, he developed too slowly for that to work. The Primarchs had a freakishly quick progression to physical maturity, where as Cain seems to have grown at a normal rate. Unless his Warp mutation was comparatively delayed growth the connections aren't strong enough. It would be wonderful to have such a gleefully amoral Primarch however.
- How do we know he didn't grow up freakishly fast? Amberly notes frequently how extremely little is known about his childhood before his commissarial training, and even that isn't commented on much; all we know is that in all probability he was raised on a hive world. Plus, he's about as far from amoral as you can get, he just has self-doubts that have convinced him otherwise. Read what he says he does in his journals, not what he says he is in his journal, since he's such an Unreliable Narrator- he's one of the most moral people in the Imperium, based on those actions. As Amberly notes, it never even occurs to him to shoot through his subordinates, for example.
- It follows, given that the sense of grungyness is magnified by Jurgen's nature as a Blank, that Corporal Nobbs is also a Blank. Thank goodness none of the Wizards at Unseen University have ever tried casting a spell on him.
- But their magic isn't Warp-based. However, with Orks running around these days, it's plausible.
- And he will actually be quite terrifying, because 1.) Jurgen WILL eventually follow him, somehow, and make him proof against other Warp Entities & 2.) because he has spent so much time with Jurgen he will have built up an immunity to regular Blanks rendering them useless to use against him.
- Might as well be canon. Living Saints are a thing, after all.
Fact: we don't know anything about Cain's parents. The part about being orphaned is true, as is the part about growing up on a hive world. So is the part about his parents being Guardsmen. However, he didn't grow up with them. They served in a mixed unit — much like the 597th — and Cain was a mistake that they covered up by abandoning him to the underhive. Eventually, they retired and settled down on Valhalla, at last having a child that they kept. A daughter they named "Jenit".
Flash forward centuries later. Both Cain and Sulla have wildly improbable careers, accompanied by poorly-written but wildly popular public memoirs... that completely cover up the real truth that both of them spent all their years of service scared witless and desperately trying to avoid danger, building up Big Damn Hero personae both to cover up the truth and as a means of ensuring a constant supply of cannon fodder willing to leap to their defense.
Somewhere out there is another Inquisitor who carried on a decades-long romance with Sulla, uncovering her secret memoirs and editing them for circulation among his Inquisitorial comrades after his death.
- Given that Cain apparently went through quite a few mistresses in his early years as a Commissar (This appears to have tapered off in the years after he met Amberley, unless she has deliberately chosen to not publish the stories where he sleeps with other women after their first meeting), leaving them behind as his deployments took him away from whatever planet or ship the women in question lived on, it's entirely possible that he had children that he never knowingly met. Sulla couldn't be one of those, however: Even if Cain had fathered her shortly after becoming a Commissar, she would have been ten or eleven when he was assigned to the 296th/301st.
- Well it's acknowledged in series that all the time Cain's spend travelling in the warp's made his age rather ambiguous, and given he has no known home (until he settled on Perlia anyway) he hasn't any real reference point. It's entirely possible he fathered a child and spent a large chunk of his or her lifetime in the warp, or said child travelled through the warp and aged differently herself (if we assume it was one of his younger, more risky liasons with other military figures it's possible young Sulla could have spent time travelling through the warp with her mother and ended up a few years older). Hell, for all we know he's the Lord General's dad.
- If anyone knows a way to contact Sandy Mitchel, send him this WMG. I am pretty sure this would make his day!
- Point in favour of the Cain's sister theory. In Caves Of Ice, notorious Blood Knight bordering on Leeroy Jenkins Sulla had her squad evacuated on the first shuttle out of there in the face of advancing orks and necrons. Something Cain himself was planning on doing if he hadn't felt the need to shore up his reputation. Sulla probably spent the rest of the journey home very loudly and publicly lamenting being safely evacuated, thus convincing Cain of her own bloodthirsty rep so he didn't notice she'd outdone him in the run-like-hell stakes.
- Further points in favour of this theory - Jenit Sulla is the namesake of a famous Roman General, Lucius Cornelius Sulla, whose nickname was "The Lucky," also grew up from rather humble beginnings to high office, was remarkably bloodthirsty... and who was a master of propaganda. Cornelius Sulla rose to the highest office in Rome through an excellent political sense, good generalship (including looking out for his men), and a flair for the dramatic, with no need for the manly heroics of other Roman Generals. We just haven't seen the clever manipulator side of her yet...
But there's a problem with this scheme. In The Emperor's Finest, Cain encountered a brood of Genestealers on the Spawn of Damnation that were implanting the Ork raiding party living on the same hulk with Genestealer implants, with the intent that the Orks would turn some of the people they end up fighting on the next planet they raid into Genestealers, with the defenders being unaware that their attackers weren't ordinary Orks. Sending a Hive Fleet through Ork territory creates the very real possibility that this will happen with any planet the Tyranids don't manage to consume outright. This will cause a lot of problems for the Imperium worlds bordering the Ork-held territories in the generations to come.
- I thought that was canon in the larger 40K materials anyway?
- This is actually addressed in The Last Ditch. Vail comments that Kryptmann's "attempt to pull off [his] trick on a galactic scale left an unholy mess for the Ordo Xenos to sort out."
- Pretty much. Biovores are generally considered to be a Tyranid creature incorporating Ork DNA.
- I thought that was canon in the larger 40K materials anyway?
Try not to think about the implications surrounding his conception.
- He did get hit on by an Ogryn once...
- Has physical characteristics that indicate he is Ratling or Ogryn, nope. From a planet with Ratlings or Ogryn, nope. All the traits listed are also ones that manifest in humans.
- Add in that the other train of Afriel Strain is being stupidly skilled, and that luck is technically subconscious psyker powers, and you get a good explanation. Mixing in normal human partly canceled out whatever causes the horrible luck, changing it to weird luck that her enhanced skills can exploit.
- I always figured she did it in her spare time between cases. In particular Warp Travel between planets can take quite a long time and there isn't a whole lot she could be doing during that time anyway.
- Cain's dead? When did that happen?
- The entire premise of the series is that they're Cain's memoirs being edited and published (to inquisiters only) after his death. It's been stated outright that he's been buried with full military honours.
- It has also been stated he is still on payroll. Just in case.
- The entire premise of the series is that they're Cain's memoirs being edited and published (to inquisiters only) after his death. It's been stated outright that he's been buried with full military honours.
- Alternatively, Amberley is claiming Cain's pay for herself — for the betterment of the Inquisition, of course...
Maybe the Tallarns have it wrong, and Jurgen is the true incarnation of the Emperor's will.
Even being dead is not a problem in a Universe where Faith can shape reality, Caipahs Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM! will live on forever as a legendary figure whose fame and tales of ever more dangerous exploits guarantee that wherever the fighting is heaviest, whenever the dangers are most dire, whatever the threat to the Imperium itself! Ciaphas Cain! HERO OF THE IMPERIUM! will be there to turn the tide!
- "I couldn't say no to an Inquisitor. Now I've got the fraking Emperor asking me to do stuff."
- Considering that the Orcish WAAAGH! has made Comissar Yarrick immortal, this has some canon support.
- About Yarrick... I'm sorry to say your info is wrong as of 2023.
- Considering that the Orcish WAAAGH! has made Comissar Yarrick immortal, this has some canon support.
Much like the pure zealous belief of the Sisters of Battle can summon Holy Living Saints of the Imperium to fight by their side, enough Guardsmen have heard of Cain and actually incorporate him in their traditions like Cain's Round, the Prophet Spoke: Frak This!, and more over time.
It will probably only be AFTER odd things start manifesting in battlefields across the Imperium that the Inquisition will take notice.
Fleeing troops chanting Cain's name will inexplicably find a tall man with a chainsword appear from no where to cover their retreat.
When leading a hopeless charge against a foul stronghold of heresy, screaming FRAK THIS! as a war cry can call forth a vision of the Prophet whose every las shot is the wrath of the Emperor against which no enemy can stand!
Even when deep in the heart of enemy territory, surrounded on all side, running out of everything., save one last cup of tea as an offering and know that you will find your way home.
And the reason why this happens to Cain and no other Hero of the Imperium?
Simple.
Cain actually CARES enough about survival (especially his own) and goes to great lengths to ensure that casualties are as few as possible, so not only does his fame spread as a Commissar who Cares, but he has sense enough to not lead his men into the meat grinder time and again, leading to him having more believers in the HERO of the IMPERIUM than there are Sisters of Battle.
Guardsmen may lack the pure zeal of a Sister of Battle, but as always, what they lack in quality, they make up for in quantity.
So a round of tea for Ciaphas Cain! HERO of the IMPERIUM!
- Isn't the tradition of Cain's Round the belief that if you are diligent and train hard, Commissar Cain will see to it that you get extra beer? A more likely belief would be based on his comment on Perlia about the fact that the nearest mug of tanna was on the other side of an army of Orks and he was thirsty enough to go and get it - If some of your men are trapped behind enemy lines, prepare a mug of tea for the Commissar at your base. No matter how many kloms and how many enemies are between your trapped men and safety, Cain will see to it that they get home.
- Alternatively, when a small group of guardsmen have been detached for a last ditch one-in-a-million chance sometimes they will be approached by a tall figure wearing the uniform of an Imperial Commissar who accompanies them to ensure that their mission is a success.
- Technically canon, except that it's not heretical. Amberly mentions a sect that worships Cain as prophet of the Emperor. Note that she specifically calls them a sect, not a group of heretics or a cult. Meaning that they've been endorsed by the Ecclesiarchy as a legitimate, and legal, form of worship.
Because, come on, what isn't?
- Confirmed
She will also introduce her husband's heir (who's middle name will be Ciaphas, for the prestige mostly...or so she says). Said heir may or may not be rather tall and muscled, despite the governer and his mother's bulk, and pragmatigally cowardly.... The main reason for this WMG is that it follows the pattern of the last lot of books where a character/Love Interest appears again and introduces what is essentially younger version of Cain. Bonus points if Vail has a physical presence this time.
- Since in the previous three book sets Amberley was a major character in one book, an extremely minor character in the second, and not present whatsoever in the third, and the current set has already had a book where she wasn't present and one where she was a minor character only appearing in person in the last chapter, she's due for a major role in the next book.
- Jossed. Mira is not mentioned at all, and Amberley only has a cameo (Which is actually from one of her additions to Cain's text).
On this site we have collected more than enough evidence that Cain is a hero and will act heroically even when he has other options available to him. The reason he spends so much time denying his own heroism is because thanks to the 40K culture he believes that being afraid or having a sense self preservation makes you a coward. Because he has these things he believes that he is a coward therefore nothing he does is heroic. Most universes don't have this point of view, at least to this degree. If he was in another universe he would still act just as heroic, he just would not hate himself.
- Succintly stated here;Zap Rowsdower: The crux of the problem, I think is that he IS a coward... by 40k standards. In that he shows long-term tactics, common sense, and has an intact concept of self-preservation. Which makes him perfectly normal for the real world, but cowardly by the standards of a culture where non-astartes military men are expected to run headlong into a wheat thresher until it clogs itself on dead bodies, and be happy and/or accepting of it.
- No, that would be Horatio Bugler, who has fought in some of the same campaigns as Cain, but has never actually met him.
Mainly because this is Warhammer 40K and NOTHING ever goes right for anybody, Cain's legacy will be used to inspire others to do things Cain wouldn't do for all tanna the Imperium. Suicidal assaults, never retreating, tying to fight Chaos Abominations with nothing more than a chainsword (which in 40K, is comedically inadequate) and zeal.
The losses would be staggering, Cain's legacy would have to be suppressed and may go as far as being declared Heretical.
- Ah, but the Imperium's losses are already staggering (they're just so damn big the guard never run out of recruits). Plus this way only the very best (or most pragmatic) would survive.
Mostly it was because Cain has been declared dead so many times, that no one BELIEVED he was dead, and perhaps never did. They just thought he was being a HERO OF THE IMPERIUM elsewhere.
Even the burial with full military honors might have been seen as a "cover" by those who think they are in the know.
Or does it only seem that way? Hmmm.
- So you're saying it's just like Elvis. Possibly that he IS ELVIS!?
A major component of Jurgen's effectiveness is that nobody seems to look past the surface impression of a grimy, noxious, not-too-bright aide tagging along after the HERO OF THE IMPERIUM and really notice that he's got enough power in his own way to neutralize the worst horrors that the Grimdark universe can throw at Cain. But at the peak of his career, Cain is a well-known, much-written-about hero, as are many of the people he associates with ... except for Jurgen.
And Amberly.
Amberly's probably got the clout to get any official histories edited to wipe out her own involvement; there's no reason not to do the same for Jurgen ... and a lot of reasons to do exactly that. Jurgen's her secret weapon, after all; if he were known as a constant companion of the great Ciaphas Cain, then Cain's enemies might see Jurgen as a target that would hurt Cain even if they didn't know Jurgen was a blank.
Cain's annoyance that Jurgen never gets his due in the official stories is a small price to pay for keeping Jurgen alive ... which, after all, helps keep Cain himself alive.
- It's quite possible that the Inquisition routinely censors information about still-living Inquisitors in archives. After all, if people learn who they are and/or what they look like, it becomes easier for their enemies to identify them, making it harder for those Inquisitors who prefer not to operate openly. Possible proof of this is that the one history Amberley has shown that mentions her existence at all simply states that Governor Grice was killed by a agent of the Inquisition without providing any further detail about said member. But since Jurgen was with Cain for over a decade before Amberly knew about him, including during the campaign that truly kicked off Cain's reputation as a hero, there was plenty of time for historians to have mentioned his existence before it occurred to Amberley to need to conceal his existence as well (Some of the books about the First Siege of Perlia that were referenced in Death or Glory were written before Cain and Jurgen even met her).
- Alternately the Emperor is using said disasters to have Cain in the right place at the right time for whatever feat of stunning heroism the Imperium needs right now. Just as planned...
- In addition one of the few points she notes in favor of Cain's supposed Hiver background is an uncanny sense of direction, which is also a Tanith trait.
- Yes, there's a couple centuries difference but there is such thing as Warp incidents.
- This would also explain why he recognised the cabinet in Duty Calls as being made of naalwood.
- The timeline actually fits quite well - the Sabbat worlds campaign took place in the 8th century of the 41st, and probably ended somewhere about 780.M41. Cain was known to be over two centuries old when recalled to fight in the Thirteenth Black Crusade, which is 999.M41 and onwards. This means he was born somewhere around the late 700s, so it does fit.
- This is a Very good suggestion. The obvious explanation for the obscurity of Cain's origins is somebody has deliberately obscured them - who better than Ciaphas himself? He resents his parents for both dying and pitching him into the Scola Progenium and Commissariat but he also feels unworthy of them. I mean seriously, Tanith First-And-Only is about as heroic and self sacrificing as you can get. NOT an example our Ciaphas is eager to follow.
- Sandy Mitchell didn't seem too willing to buy into the retooling of the Necrons as "Tomb Kings IN SPACE", preferring to keep them as incomprehensible, inhuman and absolutely terrifying abominations that Cain fears above all other things. However, the eleventh novel "Vainglorious" (published in August 2023), accepts the current interpretation of the Necrons, and Cain does team up with a Necron lord, but only to deceive and defeat him.
- The Amberley Vail story "Hidden Depths" ends on a cliffhanger, with Amberley and her retinue jumping into an Eldar webway portal to Emperor knows where. Since Amberley isn't an idiot, she's got some sort of "if I don't return" arrangement made. Who's the obvious person to come look for her? Especially since the story started out with her investigating an underhive?
- Too early to say about "trilogy", but Choose Your Enemies starts off with Cain and the 597th battling Eldar pirates. (And resolves the cliffhanger from "Hidden Depths" as well, if not the way I suggested above.)
The end result was an inspiring hero, a mere mortal who could yet measure up to the enemies of mankind and always escape to be injected into a new disaster later. If "Cain" needed to put in an appearance, then fakes could be arranged. His repeated MIAs and KIAs came from attempts to let the character go out on a high note and encourage people to emulate his Heroic Sacrifice, only to be retconned out later when they decided to circulate a new Cain story (and made it all the more dramatic and inspiring). Amberley's "behind the scenes" edited account for the Inquisition is another layer of the story as she hopes to perpetuate him into the future by maintaining the story even in the secret account, along with passing on important details for dealing with the enemies "Cain" faces.
Jurgen? He's real. He served the man who was Amberley's root inspiration for Cain, but when that man died in the line of duty she took Jurgen on in her retinue. Going along with her, he often ended up on hand for many of the other events that she used to build the fake Cain accounts, editing herself out of the real course of events.
- Some of the Cain stories and videos predate Amberley meeting Cain by a decade.
- That just means Amberley decided not to include herself in the early "official" accounts. She only brought herself into the tale after the Cain stories took off and he was established as a viable tool.
- When they're feeling bored or depressed, they manipulate events to put Cain in some ridiculously dangerous scenario, then watch and laugh as he finds some improbable and heroically cowardly way out of it. Sort of a cross between bullfighting and putting a rat in those little mazes it has to run to get cheese.
- When we first encounter Cain, he is pretty much the coward he claims to be, running away from the Tyrannids and leaving Jurgen for dead. But throughout his stories he grows gradually more and more heroic, until by Second Perlia he isn't really pretending even to himself. During the same timeframe, more and more people are becoming convinced that he is a HERO OF THE IMPERIUM!!!! and, in at least one case, an incarnation of the Emperor's Will. This is not a coincidence. The collective Warp pressure of all those people believing that Cain is a hero turned him into one.
- He has demonstrated the supreme manipulative abilities, regularly shifts personae, and has a tendency to inspire devotion among his followers and allies. He displays impressive physical abilities, particularly in close combat, which could easily be explained by him siphoning trace amounts of energy from the Warp (Word Of Brandon confirms that all forms of Investiture are interchangeable to a degree). He doesn't use the illusionary or Soulcasting forms of his power because he doesn't know he has them.
- Addendum: At some point, he'll summon a Shardchainsword. And it will be AWESOME.
- The Cain Archive is an in-universe deception. Inquisitors have a tendency to swoop in and steal valuable assets from each other, especially if they're from rival factions. What asset would be more useful than a Hero of the Imperium whose skill and faith allow him to defeat pretty much anything? So, Amberly either wrote the Cain Archive herself or had Cain write it.
Cain actually can resist the power of the warp through sheer faith, and never had (or needed) a blank like Jurgen to protect him. In fact, Jurgen was invented for the sole purpose of distracting other Inquisitors. Instead of trying to steal away the "cowardly" commissar who sometimes helps Vail out, they're looking for a non-existent Blank to steal instead. That's the entire reason why Vail distributes these writings to her colleagues.
Meanwhile, the actually heroic Cain is free to continue serving in her retinue, while all the other Inquisitors dismiss him as a dead coward.
- Jurgen was not present for Cain's little trip to Interitus Prime. But when he, Cain, and the Valhallan fire-team first see Necrons on Simia Orichalcae, Jurgen's only comment is "So that's what they look like up close". Clearly, he's seen Necrons at a distance sometime between "Echoes of the Tomb" and the beginning of Caves of Ice.
- Both are charistmatic leaders who try to avoid battle but always get sent to the worst of it.
- Both manage to turn defeat into victory.
- Not certain, since Metternich is described to have blue skin and red eyes, so maybe a combination of Flashman and a certain Grand Admiral?
- As pointed out in the books, mixed-gender Guard regiments are rare to begin with and Guardsmen would have had to do something extremely heroic for their child to end up in a Schola. There's also the fact that Amberley is apparently unable to find any clear records. True, this is the Imperium, which occasionally loses entire planets to rounding errors, but still...Amberley has the resources of the Inquisition to work with, and a thorough "background check" of somebody she's working (and otherwise engaging...) with so closely would have had to be pretty high on her list of priorities.
So this is a bit weird....unless the records had been actively expunged by somebody with access to the same resources.
Here's one way the story could have gone:- Cain's parents are petty criminals on some hive world. At some point, a con goes spectacularly bad and they're up in front of the local authorities. Deportation to the slag mines is imminent, when a passing Inquisitor recognizes useful talent (maybe it was them trying to scam the undercover Inquisitor that landed them in hot water?) and conscripts them on the spot. The Inquisitor presents a big stick (fail to serve the Inquisition faithfully and the slag mines will seem like a pleasure resort by comparison) and a small carrot (serve faithfully and your little son will be taken care of). Cain's parents, knowing an offer-you-can't-refuse when they see it, accept and become part of the retinue. Their son, left behind, is only told that they went to fight the Emperor's enemies. A few years later, a mission (possibly involving kroot, if -and that's a BIG if- we can trust Cain there) goes ploin-shaped and they both die. However, they've done well enough for the Inquisitor to honor their earlier promise. Cain is plucked from the hive city he was born in, his records are sanitized by the Inquisition and he's dropped into a Schola and thus into the career that'd end up bringing him into contact with the Inquisition yet again...
- Given the power and importance of the E-4 mafia in real life militaries, Cain (along with Kasteen and Broklaw) probably prefer it this way.
- He encounters one in "Choose Your Enemies", though he doesn't hear the name Khaine, only the description of it as an Avatar. They are also allies in a fight against a Slaaneshi daemon rather than enemies.
- And yes, he would have had to oversee that fight and been helping out on Cadia at the same time. He is an Overlord, though so he would presumably have competent minions he could entrust with what amounted to a minor out-of-the-way skirmish.
- This is all a careful Propaganda Piece by the Inquisition to discourage being "reasonable."
Adding on to the theory that his memoirs are a sort of confessional, it's a way to acknowledge the people whose help he couldn't have done without.