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* StrawmanHasAPoint/TheDCU
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* StrawmanHasAPoint/MarvelUniverse
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* ''Series/TheDefenders2017'':
** ''Series/Daredevil2015'': Mitchell Ellison made the right call not to print Ben Urich's article on Wilson Fisk killing his father, on the grounds that it was based completely on the hearsay of Fisk's senile mother. Unlike his article on Union Allied, all of Ben's information regarding Bill Fisk came from informant testimony with no hard evidence. Ben is trying to take down a major criminal who's got good publicity with the press, using nothing but hearsay, and wonders why no one would listen. The show itself seems to acknowledge this as Ellison is ultimately revealed to only be a RedHerring for Fisk's actual mole at the paper, meaning everything he said was genuine.
*** Ellison has another case of this season 3. Upon word of Fisk being released from prison, he makes clear to Karen (who's having dinner with him and his family when the call comes in) that she can't be a part of the ''Bulletin'' coverage of Fisk because she's biased. Karen thinks he's being unreasonable, countering that she knows more about Fisk than anyone else on staff, and the ''Bulletin'' is going to have bias problems regardless of who reports on Fisk between Ben's death and the reveal that one of Ellison's own staffers was in Fisk's pocket (and as far as the public was concerned, Ben was still working for the paper at the time of his death, since he was killed literally the same night he was fired). But in this case, Ellison's call is rather reasonable: unlike all the other reporters on the staff, Karen was actively involved in the events that led up to Fisk's arrest, including the Union Allied scandal and Fisk's two attempts to have her killed over it (plus things Ellison doesn't know about yet like her murder of James Wesley). This means Karen has a major conflict of interest, with Ellison pointing out (after he finds out Karen's been investigating Fisk against his explicit directions), "If people see your name and your connection to Fisk, it compromises this paper!" especially when Fisk could smear Karen with a libel suit. So this is a case where BothSidesHaveAPoint. (There's also an implication that Karen might be on thin ice with Ellison given her prior misuse of ''Bulletin'' resources to aid and abet Frank Castle during ''Series/ThePunisher2017'' season 1, which may not have happened that long before ''Daredevil'' season 3.)
*** While it's framed partially as Ellison being angry over Dex wounding him and murdering several reporters in the course of his attack on the ''Bulletin'' to get rid of Jasper Evans, Ellison's demand for Karen to tell him what she knows about the real Daredevil is semi-reasonable since Karen knows information that might help the police in their investigation.
** ''Series/LukeCage2016'':
*** Rafael Scarfe may be crooked and [[DirtyCop on Cottonmouth's payroll]], but when he gets in an argument with Misty about Luke's raid on Crispus Attucks about celebrating [[CopsNeedTheVigilante a vigilante helping cops out after years of investigation with no payoff]], his argument makes a lot of sense. There was basically no danger to Luke and he doesn't kill anyone, so even if he wasn't trained like Misty complained, Luke was able to storm a place full of armed gangsters without really putting anyone in danger. Sure, Scarfe is corrupt, and he basically advocates the NYPD giving up and HoldingOutForAHero, but {{Differently Powered Individual}}s exist and considering they couldn't stop Luke either, so they might as well take the help.
*** Another instance occurs in the final episode of season 1 with Misty. Inspector Ridley [[NiceJobBreakingItHero slams her for not trusting her fellow officers enough]] to protect Candace Miller, and the show seems to paint Misty's poor judgement as the reason Mariah Dillard goes free. However, this seems to ignore the fact that this was the same NYPD recently revealed to be mired with {{Dirty Cop}}s, one of whom was Scarfe, ''Misty's own partner''. Coupled on with the fact that it's only been a matter of months since it was uncovered that [[Series/Daredevil2015 large numbers of NYPD officers were in Wilson Fisk's pocket]], it's not hard to see why Misty would've had reservations trusting her colleagues.
*** Thomas Ridenhour in season 2 is another case of this. While he's stonewalling Misty's efforts to investigate Mariah, and is a former high school sweetheart of Mariah's, he's as invested in trying to stop the criminal violence in Harlem as the other NYPD detectives. Just...he's not as good at it, as shown by his efforts to use Comanche as an informant.
** ''Series/Daredevil2015'': Mitchell Ellison made the right call not to print Ben Urich's article on Wilson Fisk killing his father, on the grounds that it was based completely on the hearsay of Fisk's senile mother. Unlike his article on Union Allied, all of Ben's information regarding Bill Fisk came from informant testimony with no hard evidence. Ben is trying to take down a major criminal who's got good publicity with the press, using nothing but hearsay, and wonders why no one would listen. The show itself seems to acknowledge this as Ellison is ultimately revealed to only be a RedHerring for Fisk's actual mole at the paper, meaning everything he said was genuine.
*** Ellison has another case of this season 3. Upon word of Fisk being released from prison, he makes clear to Karen (who's having dinner with him and his family when the call comes in) that she can't be a part of the ''Bulletin'' coverage of Fisk because she's biased. Karen thinks he's being unreasonable, countering that she knows more about Fisk than anyone else on staff, and the ''Bulletin'' is going to have bias problems regardless of who reports on Fisk between Ben's death and the reveal that one of Ellison's own staffers was in Fisk's pocket (and as far as the public was concerned, Ben was still working for the paper at the time of his death, since he was killed literally the same night he was fired). But in this case, Ellison's call is rather reasonable: unlike all the other reporters on the staff, Karen was actively involved in the events that led up to Fisk's arrest, including the Union Allied scandal and Fisk's two attempts to have her killed over it (plus things Ellison doesn't know about yet like her murder of James Wesley). This means Karen has a major conflict of interest, with Ellison pointing out (after he finds out Karen's been investigating Fisk against his explicit directions), "If people see your name and your connection to Fisk, it compromises this paper!" especially when Fisk could smear Karen with a libel suit. So this is a case where BothSidesHaveAPoint. (There's also an implication that Karen might be on thin ice with Ellison given her prior misuse of ''Bulletin'' resources to aid and abet Frank Castle during ''Series/ThePunisher2017'' season 1, which may not have happened that long before ''Daredevil'' season 3.)
*** While it's framed partially as Ellison being angry over Dex wounding him and murdering several reporters in the course of his attack on the ''Bulletin'' to get rid of Jasper Evans, Ellison's demand for Karen to tell him what she knows about the real Daredevil is semi-reasonable since Karen knows information that might help the police in their investigation.
** ''Series/LukeCage2016'':
*** Rafael Scarfe may be crooked and [[DirtyCop on Cottonmouth's payroll]], but when he gets in an argument with Misty about Luke's raid on Crispus Attucks about celebrating [[CopsNeedTheVigilante a vigilante helping cops out after years of investigation with no payoff]], his argument makes a lot of sense. There was basically no danger to Luke and he doesn't kill anyone, so even if he wasn't trained like Misty complained, Luke was able to storm a place full of armed gangsters without really putting anyone in danger. Sure, Scarfe is corrupt, and he basically advocates the NYPD giving up and HoldingOutForAHero, but {{Differently Powered Individual}}s exist and considering they couldn't stop Luke either, so they might as well take the help.
*** Another instance occurs in the final episode of season 1 with Misty. Inspector Ridley [[NiceJobBreakingItHero slams her for not trusting her fellow officers enough]] to protect Candace Miller, and the show seems to paint Misty's poor judgement as the reason Mariah Dillard goes free. However, this seems to ignore the fact that this was the same NYPD recently revealed to be mired with {{Dirty Cop}}s, one of whom was Scarfe, ''Misty's own partner''. Coupled on with the fact that it's only been a matter of months since it was uncovered that [[Series/Daredevil2015 large numbers of NYPD officers were in Wilson Fisk's pocket]], it's not hard to see why Misty would've had reservations trusting her colleagues.
*** Thomas Ridenhour in season 2 is another case of this. While he's stonewalling Misty's efforts to investigate Mariah, and is a former high school sweetheart of Mariah's, he's as invested in trying to stop the criminal violence in Harlem as the other NYPD detectives. Just...he's not as good at it, as shown by his efforts to use Comanche as an informant.
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* ''Series/{{Smallville}}'':
** A number of characters have tried to force Clark/The Blur out of hiding and into the spotlight of the public eye. Since the series as a whole was building to Clark eventually coming out as Superman, the arguments for Clark staying hidden became less credible over time. The evil reporter from Season 2 who tried to forcibly expose Clark's secret argued that the public had a right to know about a powerful alien living in their backyard, which makes sense from a purely ethical standpoint of journalist ethics (as well as the aforementioned fact that the public would eventually find out about him), even if Clark does indeed have a right to a private life. There was also the corrupt DA from Season 9 who wanted The Blur to show his face and answer for a series of screwups that were blamed on him that were really the fault of the ComicBook/WonderTwins trying to impersonate their favorite hero; his corruption was revealed last-minute as a means to give the Wonder Twins a heroic gesture and kill any debate on whether or not the Blur should have to reveal himself to clear his name.
** In the early episodes, any interaction Clark had with Lex fell into this, and the one that stands out the most is "[[Recap/SmallvilleS03E19Memoria Memoria]]". Lex was trying to regain his lost memories from "Asylum". When Clark tried to stop him he ended up getting captured, and when Lex called him out on this Clark's only excuse was that in trying to stop his father Lex repeatedly stoops to his methods and innocent people get hurt. However, this falls on its face when you realize that the only reason Clark got hurt was that he was trying to stop Lex for, as Lionel said, his own selfish reasons. What Lex was doing only affected himself and that was his decision. Lionel wouldn't have known about it if Clark didn't get involved.
** While it's true that [[UnholyMatrimony Lex and Lana]] both became insufferably smug, they still had legitimate points when it came to protecting Earth from a potential Kryptonian/Phantom Zone/other alien invasion. In Seasons 5 & 6, Lex and Lana start sniffing around about Kryptonian technology, trying to learn everything they can about it. Clark gets very upset about this, but Lex and Lana repeatedly note that if aliens like Zod or Brainiac ever return, learning how their technology works just might end up being the thing that saves humanity from them next time, which is a perfectly defensible viewpoint. Indeed, Clark and the JLA themselves start incorporating bits of alien tech later on in fights against Zod and other threats.
** A number of characters have tried to force Clark/The Blur out of hiding and into the spotlight of the public eye. Since the series as a whole was building to Clark eventually coming out as Superman, the arguments for Clark staying hidden became less credible over time. The evil reporter from Season 2 who tried to forcibly expose Clark's secret argued that the public had a right to know about a powerful alien living in their backyard, which makes sense from a purely ethical standpoint of journalist ethics (as well as the aforementioned fact that the public would eventually find out about him), even if Clark does indeed have a right to a private life. There was also the corrupt DA from Season 9 who wanted The Blur to show his face and answer for a series of screwups that were blamed on him that were really the fault of the ComicBook/WonderTwins trying to impersonate their favorite hero; his corruption was revealed last-minute as a means to give the Wonder Twins a heroic gesture and kill any debate on whether or not the Blur should have to reveal himself to clear his name.
** In the early episodes, any interaction Clark had with Lex fell into this, and the one that stands out the most is "[[Recap/SmallvilleS03E19Memoria Memoria]]". Lex was trying to regain his lost memories from "Asylum". When Clark tried to stop him he ended up getting captured, and when Lex called him out on this Clark's only excuse was that in trying to stop his father Lex repeatedly stoops to his methods and innocent people get hurt. However, this falls on its face when you realize that the only reason Clark got hurt was that he was trying to stop Lex for, as Lionel said, his own selfish reasons. What Lex was doing only affected himself and that was his decision. Lionel wouldn't have known about it if Clark didn't get involved.
** While it's true that [[UnholyMatrimony Lex and Lana]] both became insufferably smug, they still had legitimate points when it came to protecting Earth from a potential Kryptonian/Phantom Zone/other alien invasion. In Seasons 5 & 6, Lex and Lana start sniffing around about Kryptonian technology, trying to learn everything they can about it. Clark gets very upset about this, but Lex and Lana repeatedly note that if aliens like Zod or Brainiac ever return, learning how their technology works just might end up being the thing that saves humanity from them next time, which is a perfectly defensible viewpoint. Indeed, Clark and the JLA themselves start incorporating bits of alien tech later on in fights against Zod and other threats.
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* ''Series/{{Wonder Woman|2011Pilot}}'':
** Diana has dinner with a Senator who expresses concerns about the way she does things -- namely, using ColdBloodedTorture to get information from criminals, giving the metaphorical finger to {{Reasonable Authority Figure}}s, and outright committing slander by holding a press conference to accuse Liz Hurley's character of being a murderous CorruptCorporateExecutive and '''admitting''' that she doesn't have any proof besides gut instinct. In fact, the only reason she's meeting the Senator is to get justification so she can go after Hurley. Of course, since Wondy-InNameOnly is the [[DesignatedHero hero]] of this story, she's ultimately presented as right.
** Although the Senator's point about the press conference is redundant: imagine Superman calling a press conference in Metropolis and telling the world that he personally believes a particular series of mysterious deaths were directly caused by Lex Luthor doing things at [=LexCorp=] and that he is personally going to investigate it but that he has ZERO evidence at this point. This means that yes, Lex Luthor can complain to the authorities that the Kryptonian superhero (who may not even have another name or social security number) publicly slandered him but it also means that anyone else giving Luthor grief on the grounds that "Superman said you're behind it!" would also admit they are acting that way because Superman personally believes something while admitting he has no evidence of it.
** Diana has dinner with a Senator who expresses concerns about the way she does things -- namely, using ColdBloodedTorture to get information from criminals, giving the metaphorical finger to {{Reasonable Authority Figure}}s, and outright committing slander by holding a press conference to accuse Liz Hurley's character of being a murderous CorruptCorporateExecutive and '''admitting''' that she doesn't have any proof besides gut instinct. In fact, the only reason she's meeting the Senator is to get justification so she can go after Hurley. Of course, since Wondy-InNameOnly is the [[DesignatedHero hero]] of this story, she's ultimately presented as right.
** Although the Senator's point about the press conference is redundant: imagine Superman calling a press conference in Metropolis and telling the world that he personally believes a particular series of mysterious deaths were directly caused by Lex Luthor doing things at [=LexCorp=] and that he is personally going to investigate it but that he has ZERO evidence at this point. This means that yes, Lex Luthor can complain to the authorities that the Kryptonian superhero (who may not even have another name or social security number) publicly slandered him but it also means that anyone else giving Luthor grief on the grounds that "Superman said you're behind it!" would also admit they are acting that way because Superman personally believes something while admitting he has no evidence of it.
