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** Is Vision keeping Wanda company because he genuinely cares about her, or is he just following Tony's orders to make sure she stays put? A flashback in the eighth episode of ''Series/WandaVision'' where Vision provides emotional support to Wanda between ''Age of Ultron'' and ''Civil War'' hints towards the possibility of the former. And is Tony trying to keep Wanda in the Avengers headquarters [[spoiler:because it's for her own good, considering that he's risked his reputation, business, and fortune to keep a visaless and stateless[[note]]as revealed by ''The Falcon and the Winter Soldier''[[/note]] foreign national who had accidentally killed eleven people safe from various governments]]? Or is it because [[spoiler:he's scared of her and her powers given the rampage Hulk went on when he last encountered her]]? The fact that neither Vision or Tony [[spoiler:are doing anything to help a clearly distressed Wanda in captivity towards the end of the film]] muddies this even more[[note]]Although it's unclear if they were in a position to[[/note]], though the fact that Vision and Wanda do become lovers between this movie and ''Infinity War'' mitigates things a little bit for Vision.
to:
** Is Vision keeping Wanda company because he genuinely cares about her, or is he just following Tony's orders to make sure she stays put? A flashback in the eighth episode of ''Series/WandaVision'' where Vision provides emotional support to Wanda between ''Age of Ultron'' and ''Civil War'' hints towards the possibility of the former. And is Tony trying to keep Wanda in the Avengers headquarters [[spoiler:because it's for her own good, considering that he's risked his reputation, business, and fortune to keep a visaless and stateless[[note]]as revealed by ''The Falcon and the Winter Soldier''[[/note]] foreign national who had accidentally killed eleven people safe from various governments]]? Or is it because [[spoiler:he's scared of her and her powers given the rampage Hulk went on when he last encountered her]]? The fact that neither Vision or Tony [[spoiler:are doing anything to help a clearly distressed Wanda in captivity towards the end of the film]] muddies this even more[[note]]Although it's unclear if what they were in a position to[[/note]], to do[[/note]], though the fact that Vision and Wanda do become lovers between this movie and ''Infinity War'' mitigates things a little bit for Vision.
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->''"We’re mad scientists. We’re monsters, buddy. We’ve gotta own it."''
-->-- '''Tony Stark to Bruce Banner''', ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron''
-->-- '''Tony Stark to Bruce Banner''', ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron''
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-->-- '''Tony
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** To what extent is Steve's status as TheParagon an InformedAttribute in this movie? Is his motivation for not signing the Accords--that he can't stand by when he has the power to stop something--a moral imperative stemming from his WWII roots, or is it a run-of-the-mill American "we know what's best for the rest of the world" mentality that ignores the collateral damage the Avengers have created and the possibility that other countries might prefer to look for less destructive solutions to problems that the Avengers have historically dealt with violently? Is his decision to pull Bucky out of the anonymous life he was trying to live, only to throw him into the middle of an intra-Avengers feud, because he really thinks that's what's best for Bucky, or is it just because he wants Bucky to be his best friend again? Is Steve's desire to keep Bucky from facing accountability for anything he did as the Winter Soldier based on a broad belief that people aren't culpable for things they do while they're brainwashed or because he doesn't want his friend to go to prison? To what extent is he disregarding the safety of others by keeping Bucky out in the world and off the radar when he can still be activated by anyone who knows the trigger words? And does the fact that real-world brainwashing exists and people are usually held accountable for the things they do while brainwashed cast Steve's actions in a worse light? Did he leave the rest of his team at the airport to get arrested because that was the only way to beat Zemo to the other Winter Soldiers or was he just using them as cannon fodder to slow down Tony's team so they wouldn't get to Bucky? [[spoiler: Did he lie to Tony because he really thought it would be better for Tony if he didn't know the truth, because he was worried that Tony would flip out and go nuclear on Bucky if he even thought the latter might be involved in his parents' death, or to spare himself from thinking about the real-world consequences of Bucky's actions and to protect Bucky]] (this one is [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] in-universe)?
to:
** To what extent is Steve's status as TheParagon an InformedAttribute in this movie? Is his motivation for not signing the Accords--that he can't stand by when he has the power to stop something--a moral imperative stemming from his WWII roots, or is it a run-of-the-mill American "we know what's best for the rest of the world" mentality that ignores the collateral damage the Avengers have created and the possibility that other countries might prefer to look for less destructive solutions to problems that the Avengers have historically dealt with violently? Is his decision to pull Bucky out of the anonymous life he was trying to live, only to throw him into the middle of an intra-Avengers feud, because he really thinks that's what's best for Bucky, or is it just because he wants Bucky to be his best friend again? Is Steve's desire to keep Bucky from facing accountability for anything he did as the Winter Soldier based on a broad belief that people aren't culpable for things they do while they're brainwashed or because he doesn't want his friend to go to prison? To what extent is he disregarding the safety of others by keeping Bucky out in the world and off the radar when he can still be activated by anyone who knows the trigger words? And does the fact that real-world brainwashing exists and people are usually held accountable for the things they do while brainwashed cast Steve's actions in a worse light? Did he leave the rest of his team at the airport to get arrested because that was the only way to beat Zemo to the other Winter Soldiers or was he just using them as cannon fodder to slow down Tony's team so they wouldn't get to Bucky? Did he [[spoiler: Did he lie to Tony because he really thought it would be better for Tony if he didn't know the truth, because he was worried that Tony would flip out and go nuclear on Bucky if he even thought the latter might be involved in his parents' death, or to spare himself from thinking about the real-world consequences of Bucky's actions and to protect Bucky]] (this one is [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] in-universe)?
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Changed line(s) 54 (click to see context) from:
** To what extent is Steve's status as TheParagon an InformedAttribute in this movie? Is his motivation for not signing the Accords--that he can't stand by when he has the power to stop something--a moral imperative stemming from his WWII roots, or is it a run-of-the-mill American "we know what's best for the rest of the world" mentality that ignores the collateral damage the Avengers have created and the possibility that other countries might prefer to look for less destructive solutions to problems that the Avengers have historically dealt with violently? Is his decision to pull Bucky out of the anonymous life he was trying to live, only to throw him into the middle of an intra-Avengers feud, because he really thinks that's what's best for Bucky, or is it just because he wants Bucky to be his best friend again? Is Steve's desire to keep Bucky from facing accountability for anything he did as the Winter Soldier based on a broad belief that people aren't culpable for things they do while they're brainwashed or because he doesn't want his friend to go to prison? To what extent is he disregarding the safety of others by keeping Bucky out in the world and off the radar when he can still be activated by anyone who knows the trigger words? And does the fact that real-world brainwashing exists and people are usually held accountable for the things they do while brainwashed cast Steve's actions in a worse light? Did he leave the rest of his team at the airport to get arrested because that was the only way to beat Zemo to the other Winter Soldiers or was he just using them as cannon fodder to slow down Tony's team so they wouldn't get to Bucky? Did he lie to Tony because he really thought it would be better for Tony if he didn't know the truth, because he was worried that Tony would flip out and go nuclear on Bucky if he even thought the latter might be involved in his parents' death, or to spare himself from thinking about the real-world consequences of Bucky's actions and to protect Bucky (this one is [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] in-universe)?
to:
** To what extent is Steve's status as TheParagon an InformedAttribute in this movie? Is his motivation for not signing the Accords--that he can't stand by when he has the power to stop something--a moral imperative stemming from his WWII roots, or is it a run-of-the-mill American "we know what's best for the rest of the world" mentality that ignores the collateral damage the Avengers have created and the possibility that other countries might prefer to look for less destructive solutions to problems that the Avengers have historically dealt with violently? Is his decision to pull Bucky out of the anonymous life he was trying to live, only to throw him into the middle of an intra-Avengers feud, because he really thinks that's what's best for Bucky, or is it just because he wants Bucky to be his best friend again? Is Steve's desire to keep Bucky from facing accountability for anything he did as the Winter Soldier based on a broad belief that people aren't culpable for things they do while they're brainwashed or because he doesn't want his friend to go to prison? To what extent is he disregarding the safety of others by keeping Bucky out in the world and off the radar when he can still be activated by anyone who knows the trigger words? And does the fact that real-world brainwashing exists and people are usually held accountable for the things they do while brainwashed cast Steve's actions in a worse light? Did he leave the rest of his team at the airport to get arrested because that was the only way to beat Zemo to the other Winter Soldiers or was he just using them as cannon fodder to slow down Tony's team so they wouldn't get to Bucky? [[spoiler: Did he lie to Tony because he really thought it would be better for Tony if he didn't know the truth, because he was worried that Tony would flip out and go nuclear on Bucky if he even thought the latter might be involved in his parents' death, or to spare himself from thinking about the real-world consequences of Bucky's actions and to protect Bucky Bucky]] (this one is [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] in-universe)?
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** Is Vision keeping Wanda company because he genuinely cares about her, or is he just following Tony's orders to make sure she stays put? A flashback in the eighth episode of ''Series/WandaVision'' where Vision provides emotional support to Wanda between ''Age of Ultron'' and ''Civil War'' hints towards the possibility of the former. And is Tony trying to keep Wanda in the Avengers headquarters [[spoiler:because it's for her own good, considering that he's risked his reputation, business, and fortune to keep a visaless and stateless[[note]]as revealed by ''The Falcon and the Winter Soldier''[[/note]] foreign national who had accidentally killed eleven people safe from various governments]]? Or is it because [[spoiler:he's scared of her and her powers given the rampage Hulk went on when he last encountered her]]? The fact that neither Vision or Tony [[spoiler:are doing anything to help a clearly distressed Wanda in captivity towards the end of the film]] muddies this even more,[[note]]Although it's unclear what they were in a position to actually do[[/note]] though the fact that Vision and Wanda do become lovers between this movie and ''Infinity War'' mitigates things a little bit for Vision.
to:
** Is Vision keeping Wanda company because he genuinely cares about her, or is he just following Tony's orders to make sure she stays put? A flashback in the eighth episode of ''Series/WandaVision'' where Vision provides emotional support to Wanda between ''Age of Ultron'' and ''Civil War'' hints towards the possibility of the former. And is Tony trying to keep Wanda in the Avengers headquarters [[spoiler:because it's for her own good, considering that he's risked his reputation, business, and fortune to keep a visaless and stateless[[note]]as revealed by ''The Falcon and the Winter Soldier''[[/note]] foreign national who had accidentally killed eleven people safe from various governments]]? Or is it because [[spoiler:he's scared of her and her powers given the rampage Hulk went on when he last encountered her]]? The fact that neither Vision or Tony [[spoiler:are doing anything to help a clearly distressed Wanda in captivity towards the end of the film]] muddies this even more,[[note]]Although more[[note]]Although it's unclear what if they were in a position to actually do[[/note]] to[[/note]], though the fact that Vision and Wanda do become lovers between this movie and ''Infinity War'' mitigates things a little bit for Vision.
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* Some fans speculate that the Infinity Stones have some level of sentience, similar to the One Ring. Most prominently, this would mean the Mind Stone was manipulating all sides so it could get a body. This would be similar to the original Infinity Trilogy from the comics where the Gems all have a level of sentience and a desire to be with the others.
** [[spoiler: Seems to have been confirmed as of Avengers: Infinity War as it's revealed that the Tesseract, aka the Space Stone, sent Red Skull to the location of the Soul Stone with full knowledge of how to obtain it and knowing that he would never be capable of the necessary sacrifice. This was in punishment for Red Skull abusing the Tesseract's power.]]
** [[spoiler: Seems to have been confirmed as of Avengers: Infinity War as it's revealed that the Tesseract, aka the Space Stone, sent Red Skull to the location of the Soul Stone with full knowledge of how to obtain it and knowing that he would never be capable of the necessary sacrifice. This was in punishment for Red Skull abusing the Tesseract's power.]]
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* Some After the sceptre was retconned to contain an [[MacGuffin Infinity Stone]] (assuming that wasn't the plan all along), some fans speculate that the Infinity Stones have some level of sentience, similar to the [[Literature/TheLordOfTheRings One Ring. Most prominently, this would mean Ring]]. If we take it that the Mind Stone was is both a [[ArtificialIntelligence sentient alien computer]] and capable of influencing people both directly and passively (its use as the sceptre -- both on Barton and during the argument when Banner picks it up without noticing -- and by proxy through Wanda's visions), it follows that the Mind Stone itself may have been manipulating the events that lead to the creation of both Ultron and Vision all sides so it could get a body.along, presumably for the purpose of becoming corporeal. This would be similar to the original Infinity Trilogy from the comics where the Gems all have a level of sentience and a desire to be with the others.
** [[spoiler: Seems to have been confirmed as ofAvengers: Infinity War ''Film/AvengersInfinityWar'' as it's revealed that the Tesseract, aka the Space Stone, sent Red Skull to the location of the Soul Stone with full knowledge of how to obtain it and knowing that he would never be capable of the necessary sacrifice. This was in punishment for Red Skull abusing the Tesseract's power.]]
]]
** Following the above, how much of Loki's actions in the first movie was really his doing, and how much of it was potentially him being controlled or influenced by the Mind Stone? ''Series/Loki2021'' suggests it was entirely his own doing.
** [[spoiler: Seems to have been confirmed as of
** Following the above, how much of Loki's actions in the first movie was really his doing, and how much of it was potentially him being controlled or influenced by the Mind Stone? ''Series/Loki2021'' suggests it was entirely his own doing.
Added DiffLines:
* ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron'':
** Throughout the movie, it's rather explicitly hypothesized (and even somewhat confirmed by his fear-dream) that Cap sees fighting a perpetual war as the only way to keep going, believing a normal life with love and family as too late for him. As such, his anger at finding out Tony was building Ultron is significantly built on how wrong it turned out but maybe also seeing Tony's motive (releasing his friends from the burden of Earth's only defense) as Tony taking his one reason to live away from him and making him obsolete. That might also be a way of making ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' less [[GreyAndGrayMorality morally one-sided than the original comic indicated]]. It also throws some of Cap's previous actions into question. In ''Film/CaptainAmericaTheWinterSoldier'', just when Cap is thinking about getting out of the military life, he not only declares war on HYDRA, but he destroys S.H.I.E.L.D. in the process and creates a real necessity for the Avengers. All in all, is Steve Rogers a true hero [[ChronicHeroSyndrome whose virtue and goodness compel him to always help those in need]], or is he simply a (borderline) BloodKnight who needs to feel validated by fighting whenever possible and hiding behind a smokescreen of morality (or perhaps some combination of the two)?
*** Alternatively, is it that he simply wants to keep fighting with the Avengers because he has nothing else tying him to the modern world, not because of any particular desire for combat? Given that Steve Rogers lost pretty much everything after waking up from the ice, maybe he feels that there's nothing left but Captain America and the mission. Particularly because only about ''six months'', at most, passed between his defrosting and being called on as an Avenger, meaning that he didn't really have much of a chance to get out into the world and make new connections. The finale of ''Endgame,'' where he [[spoiler: goes back to live with Peggy]], may lend credence to this idea.
** A retroactive one for Cap courtesy of ''Film/AvengersEndgame''. The famous moment of Cap causing Mjolnir to budge (provoking an OhCrap look from Thor)... followed by Cap grunting loudly and giving up--an indication that Cap's only ''sort of'' worthy... or is he just faking not being able to lift it, in the name of "good fun"? [[spoiler:At the 2015 SDCC, Joss Whedon was asked; “How is Steve Rogers not worthy?” Whedon responded teasingly, “Is he not? Are we sure? Did he fail? Or did he ''stop?''” So it's likely that when Steve budged it, he realized he ''could'' lift it if he chose, but chose ''not'' to so as to ruin what was supposed to be a fun party game. ''Endgame'' outright confirms that he's worthy, and later in separate instances, the Russos and Kevin Feige confirmed that he was ''always'' worthy of it; he just didn't pick it up fully here because being the NiceGuy he is, he was being polite to Thor. On the other hand, ''Endgame'' screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen [=McFeely=] disagree and believe that Cap was not yet worthy in this scene, due to him concealing the involvement of HYDRA - and Bucky - in the death of Tony's parents, and it's not until after he comes clean in ''Civil War'' that the worthiness kicked in.]] There's also the possibility that "worthiness" includes self-confidence, and that he didn't see himself as being Worthy until a moment of crisis in Endgame.
** Same scene, but let's look at it from Thor's point of view... at the time this movie came out, his expression when Steve budges Mjolnir the tiniest bit certainly looks like an "OhCrap" reaction, but watching the scene after the events of ''Endgame'', where Steve is able to lift Mjolnir with the greatest of ease, and Thor's reaction is one of unabashed glee ("I knew it!"), one has to wonder if his reaction during the party in ''Age of Ultron'' isn't worry, but puzzlement; "Really? I thought for sure ''he'' would be able to lift it..."
** Another for Cap... is it really, as Ultron says, that he's man who can't live without a war to fight? Or is it that he's afraid when ''everyone else'' thinks the wars are over, they really aren't, and he's the OnlySaneMan who realizes it? The dream Wanda gives him can lean towards this, with it very obviously being a postwar celebration, but spilled wine, camera flashes, and such making it feel like combat. His response to Tony's "suit of armor around the world" can also fall into this: if you believe you've literally built the peace, how likely are you to see that the war just shifted battlefields, it didn't stop?
** Ultron himself. The movie makes it unclear (at least initially) if he actually plans to destroy the human race, and fakes an interest in ruling them, or if the destruction of the human race is simply the inevitable result of him ruling them. The former assumes he's inherently evil, the latter assumes he's effectively a child who will kill humans in a tantrum the moment he finds them unworthy.
** Is the fact that Vision's good nature is proved by lifting Mjolnir, or is he just inadvertently taking advantage of a Franchise/MarvelUniverse loophole (created by a writing mistake that stuck) that all robots can do that?[[note]]In ''Film/{{Thor}}'', Creator/StanLee's cameo failed to move the hammer with a pickup truck, so it's clearly not just that he's a machine.[[/note]] Or just the fact that he was literally just born and is a complete innocent? Especially highlighted in the film when Tony and Steve begin ribbing Thor about it. [[http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/985969-captain-america-civil-war-writers-b-movies-podcast The writers]] of ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' lean towards the latter interpretation, noting that the Vision of that film may no longer be able to lift the hammer.
** This trope is key to Ultron and Scarlet Witch's plans for the Avengers: rubbing everyone's noses in the worst possible version of themselves. Is Black Widow an inhuman monster? Can Cap live without a war to fight? Will Thor's bravado get his people killed? Is the Hulk as mindlessly violent as Banner fears?
** [[spoiler:Quicksilver's death]]. A fearless, HeroicSacrifice where he proved himself a true hero and Avenger? A StupidSacrifice that he should have been able to [[StoryBreakerPower easily avoid with his powers]]? Or a complete accident where ''he'' thought he would get out unscathed? Or maybe some combination?
** While Tony’s objective in creating Ultron goes horribly wrong, how justified was he in making the attempt? It’s clear Tony thinks the Earth and the Avengers are completely unprepared for what’s out there and as ''Film/AvengersInfinityWar'' shows, he’s completely right. Steve and Thor’s main gripe seems to be that he didn’t bother to ask permission before building the project, but Tony mentions he doesn’t have the time to debate with the team (none of whom are experts with AI) before he loses the chance. Tony has already built several AI programs with no issues (JARVIS, FRIDAY, KAREN in Spider-Man’s suit in ''Film/SpiderManHomecoming'') and when he does the exact same thing again with Vision, it goes perfectly. The variable that makes Ultron go bad (coming spontaneously aware with no one but JARVIS around and then learning about mankind from the Internet) isn’t really something either Tony or Bruce could have expected. It’s also unclear exactly how much of Tony’s actions are derived from Wanda’s [[MindRape mental manipulations]]. At the same time, Bruce Banner is skeptical and has doubts about the entire project, and raises ethical questions about Tony's tunnel focus on the big picture at the exclusion of threats nearer to home since TheWorldIsAlwaysDoomed. In any case, none of Tony's tech and AI, [[spoiler:neither Vision, his Iron Man armor, or other things, was even close enough to stop Thanos by itself, and Tony owes his survival to Doctor Strange making a deal with Thanos]], plus his actions via Ultron and the consequences in ''Civil War'' divide the Avengers rather than keeping them together to oppose Thanos as a single unit. The whole fact that Tony later built [[Film/SpiderManFarFromHome a drone system that acts suspiciously like Project Insight]] also raises lots of questions as to whether he learned from his mistakes with Ultron or not.
** A lot of fans seemed to think Bruce and Natasha's relationship in this movie amounted to StrangledByTheRedString, but looking at the scenes, it's more like a flirtation that ''could'' become something more. They're not madly in love, and don't even go on a proper date. Besides some flirting here and there, the only romantic gesture between them is a kiss that happens right before a battle they know they might not not live through. Plus, even in the first movie, they had a couple personal if not romantic moments, and given they've spent some time working together as of this film, it's not all that unusual they'd develop an interest in each other.
** How much did Tony actually associate with Klaue prior to becoming Iron Man? He downplays his association to Klaue to the other Avengers by making it sound like a casual acquaintance and that he never sold him anything. However, Klaue’s recollection of Ultron’s line (“Make your friends rich and your enemies rich and wait to see which is which”) being something that Tony would say implies that Klaue had an ongoing association with him large to recognize a common saying of his. Never mind that the content of the line seems to imply Stark probably did in fact do business with Klaue. Is Tony telling the truth to his teammates or is he lying to cover up morally dubious past deeds he’d rather not let them know?
** Throughout the movie, it's rather explicitly hypothesized (and even somewhat confirmed by his fear-dream) that Cap sees fighting a perpetual war as the only way to keep going, believing a normal life with love and family as too late for him. As such, his anger at finding out Tony was building Ultron is significantly built on how wrong it turned out but maybe also seeing Tony's motive (releasing his friends from the burden of Earth's only defense) as Tony taking his one reason to live away from him and making him obsolete. That might also be a way of making ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' less [[GreyAndGrayMorality morally one-sided than the original comic indicated]]. It also throws some of Cap's previous actions into question. In ''Film/CaptainAmericaTheWinterSoldier'', just when Cap is thinking about getting out of the military life, he not only declares war on HYDRA, but he destroys S.H.I.E.L.D. in the process and creates a real necessity for the Avengers. All in all, is Steve Rogers a true hero [[ChronicHeroSyndrome whose virtue and goodness compel him to always help those in need]], or is he simply a (borderline) BloodKnight who needs to feel validated by fighting whenever possible and hiding behind a smokescreen of morality (or perhaps some combination of the two)?
*** Alternatively, is it that he simply wants to keep fighting with the Avengers because he has nothing else tying him to the modern world, not because of any particular desire for combat? Given that Steve Rogers lost pretty much everything after waking up from the ice, maybe he feels that there's nothing left but Captain America and the mission. Particularly because only about ''six months'', at most, passed between his defrosting and being called on as an Avenger, meaning that he didn't really have much of a chance to get out into the world and make new connections. The finale of ''Endgame,'' where he [[spoiler: goes back to live with Peggy]], may lend credence to this idea.
** A retroactive one for Cap courtesy of ''Film/AvengersEndgame''. The famous moment of Cap causing Mjolnir to budge (provoking an OhCrap look from Thor)... followed by Cap grunting loudly and giving up--an indication that Cap's only ''sort of'' worthy... or is he just faking not being able to lift it, in the name of "good fun"? [[spoiler:At the 2015 SDCC, Joss Whedon was asked; “How is Steve Rogers not worthy?” Whedon responded teasingly, “Is he not? Are we sure? Did he fail? Or did he ''stop?''” So it's likely that when Steve budged it, he realized he ''could'' lift it if he chose, but chose ''not'' to so as to ruin what was supposed to be a fun party game. ''Endgame'' outright confirms that he's worthy, and later in separate instances, the Russos and Kevin Feige confirmed that he was ''always'' worthy of it; he just didn't pick it up fully here because being the NiceGuy he is, he was being polite to Thor. On the other hand, ''Endgame'' screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen [=McFeely=] disagree and believe that Cap was not yet worthy in this scene, due to him concealing the involvement of HYDRA - and Bucky - in the death of Tony's parents, and it's not until after he comes clean in ''Civil War'' that the worthiness kicked in.]] There's also the possibility that "worthiness" includes self-confidence, and that he didn't see himself as being Worthy until a moment of crisis in Endgame.
** Same scene, but let's look at it from Thor's point of view... at the time this movie came out, his expression when Steve budges Mjolnir the tiniest bit certainly looks like an "OhCrap" reaction, but watching the scene after the events of ''Endgame'', where Steve is able to lift Mjolnir with the greatest of ease, and Thor's reaction is one of unabashed glee ("I knew it!"), one has to wonder if his reaction during the party in ''Age of Ultron'' isn't worry, but puzzlement; "Really? I thought for sure ''he'' would be able to lift it..."
** Another for Cap... is it really, as Ultron says, that he's man who can't live without a war to fight? Or is it that he's afraid when ''everyone else'' thinks the wars are over, they really aren't, and he's the OnlySaneMan who realizes it? The dream Wanda gives him can lean towards this, with it very obviously being a postwar celebration, but spilled wine, camera flashes, and such making it feel like combat. His response to Tony's "suit of armor around the world" can also fall into this: if you believe you've literally built the peace, how likely are you to see that the war just shifted battlefields, it didn't stop?
** Ultron himself. The movie makes it unclear (at least initially) if he actually plans to destroy the human race, and fakes an interest in ruling them, or if the destruction of the human race is simply the inevitable result of him ruling them. The former assumes he's inherently evil, the latter assumes he's effectively a child who will kill humans in a tantrum the moment he finds them unworthy.
** Is the fact that Vision's good nature is proved by lifting Mjolnir, or is he just inadvertently taking advantage of a Franchise/MarvelUniverse loophole (created by a writing mistake that stuck) that all robots can do that?[[note]]In ''Film/{{Thor}}'', Creator/StanLee's cameo failed to move the hammer with a pickup truck, so it's clearly not just that he's a machine.[[/note]] Or just the fact that he was literally just born and is a complete innocent? Especially highlighted in the film when Tony and Steve begin ribbing Thor about it. [[http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/985969-captain-america-civil-war-writers-b-movies-podcast The writers]] of ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' lean towards the latter interpretation, noting that the Vision of that film may no longer be able to lift the hammer.
** This trope is key to Ultron and Scarlet Witch's plans for the Avengers: rubbing everyone's noses in the worst possible version of themselves. Is Black Widow an inhuman monster? Can Cap live without a war to fight? Will Thor's bravado get his people killed? Is the Hulk as mindlessly violent as Banner fears?
** [[spoiler:Quicksilver's death]]. A fearless, HeroicSacrifice where he proved himself a true hero and Avenger? A StupidSacrifice that he should have been able to [[StoryBreakerPower easily avoid with his powers]]? Or a complete accident where ''he'' thought he would get out unscathed? Or maybe some combination?
** While Tony’s objective in creating Ultron goes horribly wrong, how justified was he in making the attempt? It’s clear Tony thinks the Earth and the Avengers are completely unprepared for what’s out there and as ''Film/AvengersInfinityWar'' shows, he’s completely right. Steve and Thor’s main gripe seems to be that he didn’t bother to ask permission before building the project, but Tony mentions he doesn’t have the time to debate with the team (none of whom are experts with AI) before he loses the chance. Tony has already built several AI programs with no issues (JARVIS, FRIDAY, KAREN in Spider-Man’s suit in ''Film/SpiderManHomecoming'') and when he does the exact same thing again with Vision, it goes perfectly. The variable that makes Ultron go bad (coming spontaneously aware with no one but JARVIS around and then learning about mankind from the Internet) isn’t really something either Tony or Bruce could have expected. It’s also unclear exactly how much of Tony’s actions are derived from Wanda’s [[MindRape mental manipulations]]. At the same time, Bruce Banner is skeptical and has doubts about the entire project, and raises ethical questions about Tony's tunnel focus on the big picture at the exclusion of threats nearer to home since TheWorldIsAlwaysDoomed. In any case, none of Tony's tech and AI, [[spoiler:neither Vision, his Iron Man armor, or other things, was even close enough to stop Thanos by itself, and Tony owes his survival to Doctor Strange making a deal with Thanos]], plus his actions via Ultron and the consequences in ''Civil War'' divide the Avengers rather than keeping them together to oppose Thanos as a single unit. The whole fact that Tony later built [[Film/SpiderManFarFromHome a drone system that acts suspiciously like Project Insight]] also raises lots of questions as to whether he learned from his mistakes with Ultron or not.
** A lot of fans seemed to think Bruce and Natasha's relationship in this movie amounted to StrangledByTheRedString, but looking at the scenes, it's more like a flirtation that ''could'' become something more. They're not madly in love, and don't even go on a proper date. Besides some flirting here and there, the only romantic gesture between them is a kiss that happens right before a battle they know they might not not live through. Plus, even in the first movie, they had a couple personal if not romantic moments, and given they've spent some time working together as of this film, it's not all that unusual they'd develop an interest in each other.
** How much did Tony actually associate with Klaue prior to becoming Iron Man? He downplays his association to Klaue to the other Avengers by making it sound like a casual acquaintance and that he never sold him anything. However, Klaue’s recollection of Ultron’s line (“Make your friends rich and your enemies rich and wait to see which is which”) being something that Tony would say implies that Klaue had an ongoing association with him large to recognize a common saying of his. Never mind that the content of the line seems to imply Stark probably did in fact do business with Klaue. Is Tony telling the truth to his teammates or is he lying to cover up morally dubious past deeds he’d rather not let them know?
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*** If Loki really was left near the Casket (which I doubt) then putting a baby you want to protect next to your most powerful weapon that the other forces are probably going to go looking for is a ''terrible''' plan and in no way going to ensure that he'd stay safe. Besides, if Loki wasn't abandoned then why wasn't he being watched over by a civilian or something? We didn't hear anything about Odin slaughtering Loki's guards and then just happening to find an "abandoned" baby. Although Odin would probably realize that part of the story makes him look less sympathetic.
to:
*** If Loki really was left near the Casket (which I is doubtful doubt) then putting a baby you want to protect next to your most powerful weapon that the other forces are probably going to go looking for is a ''terrible''' plan and in no way going to ensure that he'd stay safe. Besides, if Loki wasn't abandoned then why wasn't he being watched over by a civilian or something? We didn't hear anything about Odin slaughtering Loki's guards and then just happening to find an "abandoned" baby. Although Odin would probably realize that part of the story makes him look less sympathetic.
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** Because of the story's government versus anti-government plot, people are already politicizing the story and thus the characters. Following Cap's actions in ''Winter Soldier'' (in which he entirely shut down a government agency when half of it proved corrupt and the other half inept to stop it), MCU Cap [[http://tinyurl.com/qx947hf has already been branded a hardcore libertarian icon]].
to:
** Because of the story's government versus anti-government plot, people are were already politicizing the story and thus the characters. characters since it was announced. Following Cap's actions in ''Winter ''The Winter Soldier'' (in which he entirely shut down a government agency when half of it proved corrupt and the other half inept to stop it), MCU Cap [[http://tinyurl.com/qx947hf has already been branded a hardcore libertarian icon]].
Changed line(s) 29,36 (click to see context) from:
** Sebastian Stan has suggested that Bucky is lying when he says he remembers [[spoiler: killing Tony's parents, because he would rather tell Tony what he wants to hear [[DeathSeeker in order to make his death as quick as possible.]]]]
** Iron Man's morality can certainly be called into question in regards to his ties to Spider-Man. Is Tony trying to help an AscendedFanboy make a difference in the world with his powers, or is he simply trying to exploit the abilities of a NaiveNewcomer for the sole purpose of advancing his own goals? Furthermore, the fact that Peter Parker is '''[[ChildSoldier a minor]]''' being brought into the conflict also raises a completely different set of questions about Tony's moral compass.
** Is Vision [[spoiler:keeping Scarlet Witch company]] because he genuinely cares about her, or [[spoiler:is he just following Tony's orders to make sure she stays put]]? And is Tony [[spoiler:trying to keep her in his mansion]] because it's for her own good, or because [[spoiler:he's scared of her and her powers]]? The fact that neither Vision or Tony [[spoiler:is doing anything to help a clearly distressed Wanda in captivity towards the end of the film]] really makes you wonder.
** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions is somewhat justified and even somewhat tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who [[spoiler:wants to see The Avenger's destruction, and gladly does whatever it takes in order to see it happen?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about Hydra, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares about is [[spoiler:avenging the his family's deaths in the Battle of Sokovia - which The Avengers are partly responsible for - and when he finally accomplishes his goal, he sits down and prepares to commit suicide. Further complications: T'Challa/the Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' that [[NotSoDifferentRemark he is no different]]; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. Zemo even tells T'Challa he feels sorry about killing T'Chaka during the bombing in Vienna.]]
** Is Black Widow [[spoiler:betraying Iron Man's team and letting Steve and Bucky escape because she honestly thinks Steve is in the right while Tony is mostly motivated by his own ego and flawed logic? Or is her allegiance biased herself because of her closer relationship with Steve than Tony, considering what they had gone through together in ''The Winter Soldier''? She's also established in the beginning of the film that she supports Tony's decision to sign the Sokovia Accords but she also tries her hardest to convince Steve to change his mind without being too antagonistic, so the reason she lets him go at the airport might be because she really doesn't want to bring him in. And finally, at the ending of the film, she's gone into hiding when the government agents come to arrest her, but let her other compatriots behind to be imprisoned in The Raft until Steve breaks them out. Is this the sign of the "doing whatever it takes to survive, even by playing both sides" mindset that Tony accuses her of, or she genuinely cannot find a way to break them out on her own, considering the nature of the [[TheAlcatraz prison itself]]?]] Or is it because she [[spoiler: knows all too well what the Winter Soldier really is (because she was similarly used as a tool and living weapon by nasty people), so she is actually more or less neutral in the whole conflict and willing to see that both sides have ''very'' good reasons for their actions? Hawkeye probably did something similar for her way back when, and saved her from possible execution or a life sentence in jail. So, she's acting out of loyalty to both Steve ''and'' Clint, and out of sympathy for Bucky while still agreeing with Tony's point that there needs to be safeguards against people like her?]]
** Is Steve really fighting the Accords because he genuinely thinks that the Accords are wrong? Or is he fighting against them for more [[InHarmsWay personal reasons]] that he can't, or won't, admit to himself?
** Is Steve using Sharon as a ReplacementGoldfish for [[spoiler:Peggy]]? His interest in her does seem to increase once he finds out Sharon's parentage, and as his dedication to Bucky throughout shows, Steve tries to hold on to whatever he can from the past.
** Did Steve [[spoiler: leave his shield behind because he agreed with Tony's claims that he didn't deserve it or as a bitter "are you happy now?" gesture?]]
** Iron Man's morality can certainly be called into question in regards to his ties to Spider-Man. Is Tony trying to help an AscendedFanboy make a difference in the world with his powers, or is he simply trying to exploit the abilities of a NaiveNewcomer for the sole purpose of advancing his own goals? Furthermore, the fact that Peter Parker is '''[[ChildSoldier a minor]]''' being brought into the conflict also raises a completely different set of questions about Tony's moral compass.
** Is Vision [[spoiler:keeping Scarlet Witch company]] because he genuinely cares about her, or [[spoiler:is he just following Tony's orders to make sure she stays put]]? And is Tony [[spoiler:trying to keep her in his mansion]] because it's for her own good, or because [[spoiler:he's scared of her and her powers]]? The fact that neither Vision or Tony [[spoiler:is doing anything to help a clearly distressed Wanda in captivity towards the end of the film]] really makes you wonder.
** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions is somewhat justified and even somewhat tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who [[spoiler:wants to see The Avenger's destruction, and gladly does whatever it takes in order to see it happen?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about Hydra, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares about is [[spoiler:avenging the his family's deaths in the Battle of Sokovia - which The Avengers are partly responsible for - and when he finally accomplishes his goal, he sits down and prepares to commit suicide. Further complications: T'Challa/the Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' that [[NotSoDifferentRemark he is no different]]; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. Zemo even tells T'Challa he feels sorry about killing T'Chaka during the bombing in Vienna.]]
** Is Black Widow [[spoiler:betraying Iron Man's team and letting Steve and Bucky escape because she honestly thinks Steve is in the right while Tony is mostly motivated by his own ego and flawed logic? Or is her allegiance biased herself because of her closer relationship with Steve than Tony, considering what they had gone through together in ''The Winter Soldier''? She's also established in the beginning of the film that she supports Tony's decision to sign the Sokovia Accords but she also tries her hardest to convince Steve to change his mind without being too antagonistic, so the reason she lets him go at the airport might be because she really doesn't want to bring him in. And finally, at the ending of the film, she's gone into hiding when the government agents come to arrest her, but let her other compatriots behind to be imprisoned in The Raft until Steve breaks them out. Is this the sign of the "doing whatever it takes to survive, even by playing both sides" mindset that Tony accuses her of, or she genuinely cannot find a way to break them out on her own, considering the nature of the [[TheAlcatraz prison itself]]?]] Or is it because she [[spoiler: knows all too well what the Winter Soldier really is (because she was similarly used as a tool and living weapon by nasty people), so she is actually more or less neutral in the whole conflict and willing to see that both sides have ''very'' good reasons for their actions? Hawkeye probably did something similar for her way back when, and saved her from possible execution or a life sentence in jail. So, she's acting out of loyalty to both Steve ''and'' Clint, and out of sympathy for Bucky while still agreeing with Tony's point that there needs to be safeguards against people like her?]]
** Is Steve really fighting the Accords because he genuinely thinks that the Accords are wrong? Or is he fighting against them for more [[InHarmsWay personal reasons]] that he can't, or won't, admit to himself?
** Is Steve using Sharon as a ReplacementGoldfish for [[spoiler:Peggy]]? His interest in her does seem to increase once he finds out Sharon's parentage, and as his dedication to Bucky throughout shows, Steve tries to hold on to whatever he can from the past.
** Did Steve [[spoiler: leave his shield behind because he agreed with Tony's claims that he didn't deserve it or as a bitter "are you happy now?" gesture?]]
to:
** Sebastian Stan Creator/SebastianStan has suggested that Bucky is lying when he says he remembers [[spoiler: killing Tony's parents, because he would rather tell Tony what he wants to hear [[DeathSeeker in order to make his death as quick as possible.]]]]
** Iron Man's morality can certainly be called into question in regards to his ties to Spider-Man. Is Tony trying to help an AscendedFanboy make a difference in the world with his powers, or is he simply trying to exploit the abilities of a NaiveNewcomer for the sole purpose of advancing his own goals? Furthermore, the fact]]]] ''Series/TheFalconAndTheWinterSoldier'', though, established that Peter Parker is '''[[ChildSoldier a minor]]''' being brought into the conflict also raises a completely different set of questions about Tony's moral compass.
** Is Vision [[spoiler:keeping Scarlet Witch company]] because he genuinely cares about her, or [[spoiler:is he just following Tony's orders to make sure she stays put]]? And is Tony [[spoiler:trying to keep her in his mansion]] because it's for her own good, or because [[spoiler:he's scared of her and her powers]]? The fact that neither Vision or Tony [[spoiler:is doing anything to help a clearly distressed Wanda in captivity towards the end of the film]] really makes you wonder.
** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions is somewhat justified and even somewhat tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who [[spoiler:wants to see The Avenger's destruction, and gladly does whatever it takes in order to see it happen?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about Hydra, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares about is [[spoiler:avenging the his family's deaths in the Battle of Sokovia - which The Avengers are partly responsible for - and when he finally accomplishes his goal, he sits down and prepares to commit suicide. Further complications: T'Challa/the Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' that [[NotSoDifferentRemark he is no different]]; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. Zemo even tells T'Challa he feels sorry about killing T'Chaka during the bombing in Vienna.[[spoiler:Bucky wasn't lying.]]
** Iron Man's morality can certainly be called into question.
*** Is Tony supporting the Accords for good reasons, or is it out of remorse over the Sokovia incident and his confrontation with Miriam Sharpe made him overly fearful and guilty?
*** Tony's ties to Spider-Man. Is Tony trying to help an AscendedFanboy make a difference in the world with his powers, or is he simply trying to exploit the abilities of a NaiveNewcomer for the sole purpose of advancing his own goals? Furthermore, the fact that Peter Parker is '''[[ChildSoldier a minor]]''' being brought into the conflict and that ''Film/SpiderManHomecoming'' reveals that Tony didn't explain what was going on, only claiming that Cap had "gone crazy" (at least, that's how Peter interpreted it), also raise a completely different set of questions about Tony's moral compass. Additionally, given that Clint and Scott are fathers, and Steve and Sam are {{Nice Guy}}s, they would all hold back against a kid where they wouldn't against an adult (Steve in particular is clearly holding back when they fight). If that was part of Tony's calculations, it would be a clever and very ruthless strategic move.
** Is Vision keeping Wanda company because he genuinely cares about her, or is he just following Tony's orders to make sure she stays put? A flashback in the eighth episode of ''Series/WandaVision'' where Vision provides emotional support to Wanda between ''Age of Ultron'' and ''Civil War'' hints towards the possibility of the former. And is Tony trying to keep Wanda in the Avengers headquarters [[spoiler:because it's for her own good, considering that he's risked his reputation, business, and fortune to keep a visaless and stateless[[note]]as revealed by ''The Falcon and the Winter Soldier''[[/note]] foreign national who had accidentally killed eleven people safe from various governments]]? Or is it because [[spoiler:he's scared of her and her powers given the rampage Hulk went on when he last encountered her]]? The fact that neither Vision or Tony [[spoiler:are doing anything to help a clearly distressed Wanda in captivity towards the end of the film]] muddies this even more,[[note]]Although it's unclear what they were in a position to actually do[[/note]] though the fact that Vision and Wanda do become lovers between this movie and ''Infinity War'' mitigates things a little bit for Vision.
** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions are somewhat justified and even tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who wants to see [[spoiler:the Avengers' destruction, and gladly crosses the MoralEventHorizon in order to ensure it?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about HYDRA, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares about is [[spoiler:avenging the deaths of his family who perished during the Battle of Sokovia, for which the Avengers are partly responsible, and when finally accomplishing that, clearly has no plans to do anything else and prepares to commit suicide. Further complicating this is the fact that T'Challa/Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' [[NotSoDifferentRemark that he is similar to Zemo]]; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. Zemo even admits to T'Challa that he feels sorry about causing his father's death during the bombing in Vienna.]]
** Is Black Widow [[spoiler:betraying Iron Man's team and letting Steve and Bucky escape because she honestly thinks Steve is in the right while Tony is mostly motivated by his own ego and flawed logic? Or is her allegiance biased herself becauseof her she's always had a closer relationship with Steve than Tony, considering what they had gone through together in ''The ''Captain America: The Winter Soldier''? She's Natasha's also established in the beginning of the film that she supports Tony's decision to sign the Sokovia Accords but she also tries her hardest to convince Steve to change his mind without being too antagonistic, so the reason she lets him go at the airport might be because she really doesn't want ''want'' to bring him in. And finally, at the ending of the film, she's gone she goes into hiding and carries out the events of [[Film/BlackWidow2021 her solo movie]] when the government agents come to arrest her, but let leaves her other compatriots behind to be imprisoned in The Raft until Steve breaks them out. Is this the sign of the "doing whatever it takes to survive, even by playing both sides" mindset that Tony accuses her of, or because she genuinely cannot find a way to break them out on her own, considering the nature of the [[TheAlcatraz prison itself]]?]] itself]]? Or is it was her decision because she [[spoiler: knows all too well what the Winter Soldier really is (because she (since Natasha was similarly used as a tool and living weapon by nasty people), so she is actually more or less neutral in the whole conflict and willing to see that both ''[[BothSidesHaveApoint both]]'' [[BothSidesHaveApoint sides have ''very'' have]] ''[[BothSidesHaveApoint very]]'' [[BothSidesHaveApoint good reasons for their actions? actions]]? Hawkeye probably did something similar for her way back when, and saved her from possible execution or a life sentence in jail. So, she's So is she acting out of loyalty to both Steve ''and'' Clint, and out of sympathy for Bucky Bucky, while still agreeing with Tony's point that there needs to be safeguards against people like her?]]
** Is Steve really fighting the Accords because he genuinely thinks thatthe Accords they are wrong? Or is he fighting against them for more [[InHarmsWay personal reasons]] that he can't, or won't, admit to himself?
** Is Steve using Sharon as a ReplacementGoldfish for [[spoiler:Peggy]]? His interest in her does seem to increase once he finds out Sharon's parentage, and as his dedication to Bucky throughout shows, Steve tries to hold on to whatever he can from thepast.
past. [[spoiler:Steve's characterization in ''Avengers: Endgame'' adds a lot of evidence to this interpretation. Even seven years after Peggy's death, he's still deeply in love with her, to the point that he'd rather return to the past just to be with her. In addition, a deleted scene from ''Endgame'' would have featured Steve living with Sharon after the Snap in what's supposed to be an unhappy relationship]].
** Did Steve [[spoiler: leave his shield behind because he agreed with Tony's claims that he didn't deserve it or as a bitter "are you happy now?"gesture?]]gesture?]] The Russos claim that it's the latter.
** Considering that in ''Film/BlackPanther2018'', T'Challa let [[spoiler:Killmonger]] die on his own terms (albeit after offering Erik medical treatment), is his decision to [[spoiler:not only spare Zemo but prevent him from killing himself]] more proof that he's gotten over his desire for vengeance, or an act of CruelMercy?
** To what extent is Steve's status as TheParagon an InformedAttribute in this movie? Is his motivation for not signing the Accords--that he can't stand by when he has the power to stop something--a moral imperative stemming from his WWII roots, or is it a run-of-the-mill American "we know what's best for the rest of the world" mentality that ignores the collateral damage the Avengers have created and the possibility that other countries might prefer to look for less destructive solutions to problems that the Avengers have historically dealt with violently? Is his decision to pull Bucky out of the anonymous life he was trying to live, only to throw him into the middle of an intra-Avengers feud, because he really thinks that's what's best for Bucky, or is it just because he wants Bucky to be his best friend again? Is Steve's desire to keep Bucky from facing accountability for anything he did as the Winter Soldier based on a broad belief that people aren't culpable for things they do while they're brainwashed or because he doesn't want his friend to go to prison? To what extent is he disregarding the safety of others by keeping Bucky out in the world and off the radar when he can still be activated by anyone who knows the trigger words? And does the fact that real-world brainwashing exists and people are usually held accountable for the things they do while brainwashed cast Steve's actions in a worse light? Did he leave the rest of his team at the airport to get arrested because that was the only way to beat Zemo to the other Winter Soldiers or was he just using them as cannon fodder to slow down Tony's team so they wouldn't get to Bucky? Did he lie to Tony because he really thought it would be better for Tony if he didn't know the truth, because he was worried that Tony would flip out and go nuclear on Bucky if he even thought the latter might be involved in his parents' death, or to spare himself from thinking about the real-world consequences of Bucky's actions and to protect Bucky (this one is [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] in-universe)?
** Tony claims he has no idea Team Cap would end up in the Raft. Was he just saying this? Or did he genuinely not realize it? If the latter, is it because he thought the government would let him keep custody of them, or is it because he didn't consider the consequences of the fight at all?
** Iron Man's morality can certainly be called into question in regards to his ties to Spider-Man. Is Tony trying to help an AscendedFanboy make a difference in the world with his powers, or is he simply trying to exploit the abilities of a NaiveNewcomer for the sole purpose of advancing his own goals? Furthermore, the fact
** Is Vision [[spoiler:keeping Scarlet Witch company]] because he genuinely cares about her, or [[spoiler:is he just following Tony's orders to make sure she stays put]]? And is Tony [[spoiler:trying to keep her in his mansion]] because it's for her own good, or because [[spoiler:he's scared of her and her powers]]? The fact that neither Vision or Tony [[spoiler:is doing anything to help a clearly distressed Wanda in captivity towards the end of the film]] really makes you wonder.
** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions is somewhat justified and even somewhat tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who [[spoiler:wants to see The Avenger's destruction, and gladly does whatever it takes in order to see it happen?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about Hydra, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares about is [[spoiler:avenging the his family's deaths in the Battle of Sokovia - which The Avengers are partly responsible for - and when he finally accomplishes his goal, he sits down and prepares to commit suicide. Further complications: T'Challa/the Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' that [[NotSoDifferentRemark he is no different]]; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. Zemo even tells T'Challa he feels sorry about killing T'Chaka during the bombing in Vienna.
** Iron Man's morality can certainly be called into question.
*** Is Tony supporting the Accords for good reasons, or is it out of remorse over the Sokovia incident and his confrontation with Miriam Sharpe made him overly fearful and guilty?
*** Tony's ties to Spider-Man. Is Tony trying to help an AscendedFanboy make a difference in the world with his powers, or is he simply trying to exploit the abilities of a NaiveNewcomer for the sole purpose of advancing his own goals? Furthermore, the fact that Peter Parker is '''[[ChildSoldier a minor]]''' being brought into the conflict and that ''Film/SpiderManHomecoming'' reveals that Tony didn't explain what was going on, only claiming that Cap had "gone crazy" (at least, that's how Peter interpreted it), also raise a completely different set of questions about Tony's moral compass. Additionally, given that Clint and Scott are fathers, and Steve and Sam are {{Nice Guy}}s, they would all hold back against a kid where they wouldn't against an adult (Steve in particular is clearly holding back when they fight). If that was part of Tony's calculations, it would be a clever and very ruthless strategic move.
** Is Vision keeping Wanda company because he genuinely cares about her, or is he just following Tony's orders to make sure she stays put? A flashback in the eighth episode of ''Series/WandaVision'' where Vision provides emotional support to Wanda between ''Age of Ultron'' and ''Civil War'' hints towards the possibility of the former. And is Tony trying to keep Wanda in the Avengers headquarters [[spoiler:because it's for her own good, considering that he's risked his reputation, business, and fortune to keep a visaless and stateless[[note]]as revealed by ''The Falcon and the Winter Soldier''[[/note]] foreign national who had accidentally killed eleven people safe from various governments]]? Or is it because [[spoiler:he's scared of her and her powers given the rampage Hulk went on when he last encountered her]]? The fact that neither Vision or Tony [[spoiler:are doing anything to help a clearly distressed Wanda in captivity towards the end of the film]] muddies this even more,[[note]]Although it's unclear what they were in a position to actually do[[/note]] though the fact that Vision and Wanda do become lovers between this movie and ''Infinity War'' mitigates things a little bit for Vision.
** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions are somewhat justified and even tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who wants to see [[spoiler:the Avengers' destruction, and gladly crosses the MoralEventHorizon in order to ensure it?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about HYDRA, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares about is [[spoiler:avenging the deaths of his family who perished during the Battle of Sokovia, for which the Avengers are partly responsible, and when finally accomplishing that, clearly has no plans to do anything else and prepares to commit suicide. Further complicating this is the fact that T'Challa/Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' [[NotSoDifferentRemark that he is similar to Zemo]]; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. Zemo even admits to T'Challa that he feels sorry about causing his father's death during the bombing in Vienna.]]
** Is Black Widow [[spoiler:betraying Iron Man's team and letting Steve and Bucky escape because she honestly thinks Steve is in the right while Tony is mostly motivated by his own ego and flawed logic? Or is her allegiance biased herself because
** Is Steve really fighting the Accords because he genuinely thinks that
** Is Steve using Sharon as a ReplacementGoldfish for [[spoiler:Peggy]]? His interest in her does seem to increase once he finds out Sharon's parentage, and as his dedication to Bucky throughout shows, Steve tries to hold on to whatever he can from the
** Did Steve [[spoiler: leave his shield behind because he agreed with Tony's claims that he didn't deserve it or as a bitter "are you happy now?"
** Considering that in ''Film/BlackPanther2018'', T'Challa let [[spoiler:Killmonger]] die on his own terms (albeit after offering Erik medical treatment), is his decision to [[spoiler:not only spare Zemo but prevent him from killing himself]] more proof that he's gotten over his desire for vengeance, or an act of CruelMercy?
** To what extent is Steve's status as TheParagon an InformedAttribute in this movie? Is his motivation for not signing the Accords--that he can't stand by when he has the power to stop something--a moral imperative stemming from his WWII roots, or is it a run-of-the-mill American "we know what's best for the rest of the world" mentality that ignores the collateral damage the Avengers have created and the possibility that other countries might prefer to look for less destructive solutions to problems that the Avengers have historically dealt with violently? Is his decision to pull Bucky out of the anonymous life he was trying to live, only to throw him into the middle of an intra-Avengers feud, because he really thinks that's what's best for Bucky, or is it just because he wants Bucky to be his best friend again? Is Steve's desire to keep Bucky from facing accountability for anything he did as the Winter Soldier based on a broad belief that people aren't culpable for things they do while they're brainwashed or because he doesn't want his friend to go to prison? To what extent is he disregarding the safety of others by keeping Bucky out in the world and off the radar when he can still be activated by anyone who knows the trigger words? And does the fact that real-world brainwashing exists and people are usually held accountable for the things they do while brainwashed cast Steve's actions in a worse light? Did he leave the rest of his team at the airport to get arrested because that was the only way to beat Zemo to the other Winter Soldiers or was he just using them as cannon fodder to slow down Tony's team so they wouldn't get to Bucky? Did he lie to Tony because he really thought it would be better for Tony if he didn't know the truth, because he was worried that Tony would flip out and go nuclear on Bucky if he even thought the latter might be involved in his parents' death, or to spare himself from thinking about the real-world consequences of Bucky's actions and to protect Bucky (this one is [[LampshadeHanging lampshaded]] in-universe)?
** Tony claims he has no idea Team Cap would end up in the Raft. Was he just saying this? Or did he genuinely not realize it? If the latter, is it because he thought the government would let him keep custody of them, or is it because he didn't consider the consequences of the fight at all?
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AlternativeCharacterInterpretation in ''Franchise/MarvelCinematicUniverse''.
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*** A fairly popular third theory (and a FanWank for the implausibility of his plan) is that his goal was never to conquer anyone or even cause all that much damage overseas, but rather to give the countries of the world a valid ''casus belli'' to destroy Wakanda specifically. It's pointed out his [[spoiler:burning of the source of the Black Panther's powers was a tactic to destabilize Wakanda itself (he reacts quite negatively to the idea of there being any king after his own reign ends)]], bringing into question if he actually even wanted to create a new world superpower or if he instead wanted to ravage the world and destroy Wakanda.
** Killmonger [[spoiler:killing his girlfriend]] - was that just an example of how without morals he is? Or, considering she never asks him to save her, was it mutually agreed between them in the event that someone used her as a hostage?
** T'Chaka's motivation for [[spoiler:abandoning Killmonger in Oakland after killing N'Jobu]] is subject to this. While he claims it was to uphold the truth about Wakanda, is it possible that it was also [[spoiler:out of fear of the political turmoil that could result if N'Jobu's actions and his response were revealed to the other Wakandans? Did he fear that the boy would challenge T'Challa for the throne later? Did he not want to have the boy around and constantly be reminded that he had to kill his brother, or did he consider the boy to be unworthy of living in Wakanda because he had an American mother]]? Or was it a combination of any of these?
** Did N'Jobu come to empathize with America's black community on his own? Or was it primarily due to his love for [[spoiler:Erik's mother]]?
** Is Everett Ross's ReasonableAuthorityFigure personality differing from his ObstructiveBureaucrat appearance in ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' a case of DependingOnTheWriter? Or did the events of that film along with his role in the mess the Sokovia Accords created cause him to undergo some CharacterDevelopment?
** Was W'Kabi's decision to [[spoiler:commit a FaceHeelTurn and side with Killmonger motivated by T'Challa's supposed betrayal? Or was W'Kabi fueled by his expressed desire for Wakanda to wage war against other countries, which T'Challa had no interest in pursuing? Or was his motivation somewhere in between]]? Deleted scenes indicate the former.
** The actions that the Border Tribe take at the climax of the movie [[spoiler:where they willingly follow W'Kabi's orders to oppose T'Challa even though it violates Wakanda's rituals]] especially in light of [[spoiler:the following movie where they've returned to serving under the Black Panther]]. Were they a group of [[BlackShirt black shirts]] eager for the opportunity to conquer or was it a case of MyMasterRightOrWrong where they are loyal to W'Kabi rather than to whoever is king? In the following movie, [[spoiler:Okoye notes that the surviving combatants have reintegrated with the rest of the Wakandan forces with the cause of their HeelFaceTurn left up to the audience to decipher]].
** Is the ancestral plane real or is it merely an intense hallucination caused by ingesting the heart-shaped herb? Also, [[spoiler:when Erik meets his father again in the spirit realm, is he talking to N'Jobu's actual spirit or is he talking to his consciousness manifested as his father]]?
** Killmonger [[spoiler:killing his girlfriend]] - was that just an example of how without morals he is? Or, considering she never asks him to save her, was it mutually agreed between them in the event that someone used her as a hostage?
** T'Chaka's motivation for [[spoiler:abandoning Killmonger in Oakland after killing N'Jobu]] is subject to this. While he claims it was to uphold the truth about Wakanda, is it possible that it was also [[spoiler:out of fear of the political turmoil that could result if N'Jobu's actions and his response were revealed to the other Wakandans? Did he fear that the boy would challenge T'Challa for the throne later? Did he not want to have the boy around and constantly be reminded that he had to kill his brother, or did he consider the boy to be unworthy of living in Wakanda because he had an American mother]]? Or was it a combination of any of these?
** Did N'Jobu come to empathize with America's black community on his own? Or was it primarily due to his love for [[spoiler:Erik's mother]]?
** Is Everett Ross's ReasonableAuthorityFigure personality differing from his ObstructiveBureaucrat appearance in ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'' a case of DependingOnTheWriter? Or did the events of that film along with his role in the mess the Sokovia Accords created cause him to undergo some CharacterDevelopment?
** Was W'Kabi's decision to [[spoiler:commit a FaceHeelTurn and side with Killmonger motivated by T'Challa's supposed betrayal? Or was W'Kabi fueled by his expressed desire for Wakanda to wage war against other countries, which T'Challa had no interest in pursuing? Or was his motivation somewhere in between]]? Deleted scenes indicate the former.
** The actions that the Border Tribe take at the climax of the movie [[spoiler:where they willingly follow W'Kabi's orders to oppose T'Challa even though it violates Wakanda's rituals]] especially in light of [[spoiler:the following movie where they've returned to serving under the Black Panther]]. Were they a group of [[BlackShirt black shirts]] eager for the opportunity to conquer or was it a case of MyMasterRightOrWrong where they are loyal to W'Kabi rather than to whoever is king? In the following movie, [[spoiler:Okoye notes that the surviving combatants have reintegrated with the rest of the Wakandan forces with the cause of their HeelFaceTurn left up to the audience to decipher]].
** Is the ancestral plane real or is it merely an intense hallucination caused by ingesting the heart-shaped herb? Also, [[spoiler:when Erik meets his father again in the spirit realm, is he talking to N'Jobu's actual spirit or is he talking to his consciousness manifested as his father]]?
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Cut per forum discussion
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** Is Killmonger is a DeathSeeker? Besides [[spoiler:refusing medical help after his defeat]], he always chooses the self-destructive path. [[spoiler:He kills his girlfriend and burns the sacred garden]], implying that he isn't interested in having an heir or leaving a legacy for himself even though [[spoiler:he's a prince with a legitimate claim to the throne]]. Furthermore, despite having the skills and connections, Killmonger also chose not to follow a more heroic career like becoming a costumed vigilante (in a universe where that is possible and acceptable career path), entering politics or starting his own company, thus denying himself the chance to help others and live a life of luxury without the needless deaths. The fact that Killmonger pursues self-defeating atrocities implies that he doesn't care about what happens to himself so long as everyone experiences his suffering. This only makes his evil plan [[FridgeHorror more horrifying in hindsight]], since it amounts to a [[MutualKill murder]]-[[SuicideByCop suicide]] as he intentionally wants to start a race war that will cause millions to die alongside him.
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** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions is somewhat justified and even somewhat tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who [[spoiler:wants to see The Avenger's destruction, and gladly crosses the MoralEventHorizon in order to see it happen?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about Hydra, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares about is [[spoiler:avenging the his family's deaths in the Battle of Sokovia - which The Avengers are partly responsible for - and when he finally accomplishes his goal, he sits down and prepares to commit suicide. Further complications: T'Challa/the Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' that [[NotSoDifferentRemark he is no different]]; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. Zemo even tells T'Challa he feels sorry about killing T'Chaka during the bombing in Vienna.]]
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** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions is somewhat justified and even somewhat tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who [[spoiler:wants to see The Avenger's destruction, and gladly crosses the MoralEventHorizon does whatever it takes in order to see it happen?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about Hydra, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares about is [[spoiler:avenging the his family's deaths in the Battle of Sokovia - which The Avengers are partly responsible for - and when he finally accomplishes his goal, he sits down and prepares to commit suicide. Further complications: T'Challa/the Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' that [[NotSoDifferentRemark he is no different]]; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. Zemo even tells T'Challa he feels sorry about killing T'Chaka during the bombing in Vienna.]]
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Not So Different has been renamed, and it needs to be dewicked/moved
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** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions is somewhat justified and even somewhat tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who [[spoiler:wants to see The Avenger's destruction, and gladly crosses the MoralEventHorizon in order to see it happen?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about Hydra, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares about is [[spoiler:avenging the his family's deaths in the Battle of Sokovia - which The Avengers are partly responsible for - and when he finally accomplishes his goal, he sits down and prepares to commit suicide. Further complications: T'Challa/the Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' that he is NotSoDifferent; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. Zemo even tells T'Challa he feels sorry about killing T'Chaka during the bombing in Vienna.]]
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** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions is somewhat justified and even somewhat tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who [[spoiler:wants to see The Avenger's destruction, and gladly crosses the MoralEventHorizon in order to see it happen?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about Hydra, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares about is [[spoiler:avenging the his family's deaths in the Battle of Sokovia - which The Avengers are partly responsible for - and when he finally accomplishes his goal, he sits down and prepares to commit suicide. Further complications: T'Challa/the Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' that [[NotSoDifferentRemark he is NotSoDifferent; no different]]; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. Zemo even tells T'Challa he feels sorry about killing T'Chaka during the bombing in Vienna.]]
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Not approved by the Magnificent Bastard Clean-Up Thread. All potential candidates must be approved by the thread first before they can be labeled as a Magnificent Bastard.
. All potential candidates must be approved by the thread first before they can be labeled as a Magnificent Bastard.Changed line(s) 19 (click to see context) from:
** One could also argue whether his fall at the end of ''Film/{{Thor}}'' was a suicide attempt or an escape route to plan more evil deeds. Depending upon the character interpretation, whether Loki is a MagnificentBastard or a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds, Odin's telling him that what he did would not make him proud could either have been the final straw that drove him to suicide or that drove him to full out, unredeemable evil.
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** One could also argue whether his fall at the end of ''Film/{{Thor}}'' was a suicide attempt or an escape route to plan more evil deeds. Depending upon the character interpretation, whether Loki is a MagnificentBastard ManipulativeBastard or a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds, Odin's telling him that what he did would not make him proud could either have been the final straw that drove him to suicide or that drove him to full out, unredeemable irredeemable evil.
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*** If Loki really was left near the Casket (which I doubt) then putting a baby you want to protect next to your most powerful weapon that the other forces are probably going to go looking for is a ''terrible''' plan and in no way going to ensure that he'd stay safe. Besides, if Loki wasn't abandoned then why wasn't he being watched overy by a civilian or something? We didn't hear anything about Odin slaughtering Loki's guards and then just happening to find an "abandoned" baby. Although Odin would probably realize that part of the story makes him look less sympathetic.
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*** If Loki really was left near the Casket (which I doubt) then putting a baby you want to protect next to your most powerful weapon that the other forces are probably going to go looking for is a ''terrible''' plan and in no way going to ensure that he'd stay safe. Besides, if Loki wasn't abandoned then why wasn't he being watched overy over by a civilian or something? We didn't hear anything about Odin slaughtering Loki's guards and then just happening to find an "abandoned" baby. Although Odin would probably realize that part of the story makes him look less sympathetic.
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->''"We’re mad scientists. We’re monsters, buddy. We’ve gotta own it."''
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->''"We’re mad scientists. We’re We’re monsters, buddy. We’ve gotta own it."''
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!!General
* Thanos, of all people, as an IneffectualSympatheticVillain. Seven movies since his debut (appearing in three of them), he has collected exactly zero Infinity Stones, and in fact even has one fewer Stone than he started with (as Loki's staff had the Mind Stone). Comics Alliance has called him [[http://comicsalliance.com/thanos-infinty-stone/ "the Trix rabbit of supervillains."]]. Another is he's TheChessmaster playing the LongGame. He may not ''have'' the Infinity Stones, but he knows where most of them are (as well as figuring out the location to the Infinity Gauntlet). In the stinger of ''Age of Ultron'', [[spoiler:Thanos appears tired of relying on others to bring him the Stones, and resolves to retrieve them personally]].
* Some fans speculate that the Infinity Stones have some level of sentience, similar to the One Ring. Most prominently, this would mean the Mind Stone was manipulating all sides so it could get a body. This would be similar to the original Infinity Trilogy from the comics where the Gems all have a level of sentience and a desire to be with the others.
** [[spoiler: Seems to have been confirmed as of Avengers: Infinity War as it's revealed that the Tesseract, aka the Space Stone, sent Red Skull to the location of the Soul Stone with full knowledge of how to obtain it and knowing that he would never be capable of the necessary sacrifice. This was in punishment for Red Skull abusing the Tesseract's power.]]
* Thanos, of all people, as an IneffectualSympatheticVillain. Seven movies since his debut (appearing in three of them), he has collected exactly zero Infinity Stones, and in fact even has one fewer Stone than he started with (as Loki's staff had the Mind Stone). Comics Alliance has called him [[http://comicsalliance.com/thanos-infinty-stone/ "the Trix rabbit of supervillains."]]. Another is he's TheChessmaster playing the LongGame. He may not ''have'' the Infinity Stones, but he knows where most of them are (as well as figuring out the location to the Infinity Gauntlet). In the stinger of ''Age of Ultron'', [[spoiler:Thanos appears tired of relying on others to bring him the Stones, and resolves to retrieve them personally]].
* Some fans speculate that the Infinity Stones have some level of sentience, similar to the One Ring. Most prominently, this would mean the Mind Stone was manipulating all sides so it could get a body. This would be similar to the original Infinity Trilogy from the comics where the Gems all have a level of sentience and a desire to be with the others.
** [[spoiler: Seems to have been confirmed as of Avengers: Infinity War as it's revealed that the Tesseract, aka the Space Stone, sent Red Skull to the location of the Soul Stone with full knowledge of how to obtain it and knowing that he would never be capable of the necessary sacrifice. This was in punishment for Red Skull abusing the Tesseract's power.]]
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** Wakandan itself. A paradise just trying to defend itself? Or a nation of self-righteous xenophobes willing to let the rest of the world suffer? Even ignoring Killmonger's point about how Wakanda could've alleviate the suffering of Africans using their tech and resources, keep in mind that at the time that this film takes place, there had been ''three'' [[Film/{{Thor}} alien]] [[Film/TheAvengers2012 invasions of]] [[Film/ThorTheDarkWorld the planet.]]
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** Wakandan Wakanda itself. A paradise just trying to defend itself? Or a nation of self-righteous xenophobes willing to let the rest of the world suffer? Even ignoring Killmonger's point about how Wakanda could've alleviate the suffering of Africans using their tech and resources, keep in mind that at the time that this film takes place, there had been ''three'' [[Film/{{Thor}} alien]] [[Film/TheAvengers2012 invasions of]] [[Film/ThorTheDarkWorld the planet.]]
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* ''Film/BlackPanther''
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* ''Film/BlackPanther''''Film/BlackPanther2018''
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** Is Killmonger is a DeathSeeker? Besides [[spoiler:refusing medical help after his defeat]], he always chooses the self-destructive path. [[spoiler:He kills his girlfriend and burns the sacred garden]], implying that he isn't interested in having an heir or leaving a legacy for himself even though [[spoiler:he's a prince with a legitimate claim to the throne]]. Furthermore, despite having the skills and connections, Killmonger also chose not to follow a more heroic career like becoming a costumed vigilante, entering politics or starting his own company, thus denying himself the chance to help others and live a life of luxury without the needless deaths. The fact that Killmonger pursues self-defeating atrocities implies that he doesn't care about what happens to himself so long as everyone experiences his suffering. This only makes his evil plan [[FridgeHorror more horrifying in hindsight]], since it amounts to a [[MutualKill murder]]-[[SuicideByCop suicide]] as he intentionally wants to start a race war that will cause millions to die alongside him.
to:
** Is Killmonger is a DeathSeeker? Besides [[spoiler:refusing medical help after his defeat]], he always chooses the self-destructive path. [[spoiler:He kills his girlfriend and burns the sacred garden]], implying that he isn't interested in having an heir or leaving a legacy for himself even though [[spoiler:he's a prince with a legitimate claim to the throne]]. Furthermore, despite having the skills and connections, Killmonger also chose not to follow a more heroic career like becoming a costumed vigilante, vigilante (in a universe where that is possible and acceptable career path), entering politics or starting his own company, thus denying himself the chance to help others and live a life of luxury without the needless deaths. The fact that Killmonger pursues self-defeating atrocities implies that he doesn't care about what happens to himself so long as everyone experiences his suffering. This only makes his evil plan [[FridgeHorror more horrifying in hindsight]], since it amounts to a [[MutualKill murder]]-[[SuicideByCop suicide]] as he intentionally wants to start a race war that will cause millions to die alongside him.
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None
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** Does [[BigBad Killmonger]] actually care about helping oppressed minorities, or is he just using their plight as an excuse to take revenge on a world he feels has wronged him personally? Support for the latter comes near the end of the film when he admits that he doesn't care so long as the world share his pain. Despite his entire mission statement about using Wakandan technology to improve the world, and T'Challa [[SaveTheVillain offering him a chance to repent]], he [[spoiler:kills himself rather than swallow his pride for the sake of actually helping people.]] It's also pointed out his [[spoiler:burning of the source of the Black Panther's powers was a tactic to destabilize Wakanda itself]], bringing into question if he actually even wanted to create a new world superpower or if he instead wanted to ravage the world and destroy Wakanda. However, if Killmonger really cares more about venting his rage, was he always motivated by selfish revenge or [[TheDarkSideWillMakeYouForget did he start out with genuinely selfless intentions only to lose sight because of his anger]]?
to:
** Does [[BigBad Killmonger]] actually care about helping oppressed minorities, or is he just using their plight as an excuse to take revenge on a world he feels has wronged him personally? Support for the latter comes near the end of the film when he admits that he doesn't care so long as the world share his pain. Despite his entire mission statement about using Wakandan technology to improve the world, and T'Challa [[SaveTheVillain offering him a chance to repent]], he [[spoiler:kills himself rather than swallow his pride for the sake of actually helping people.]] It's also pointed out his [[spoiler:burning of the source of the Black Panther's powers was a tactic to destabilize Wakanda itself]], bringing into question if he actually even wanted to create a new world superpower or if he instead wanted to ravage the world and destroy Wakanda. However, if Killmonger really cares more about venting his rage, was he always motivated by selfish revenge or [[TheDarkSideWillMakeYouForget did he start out with genuinely selfless intentions only to lose sight give up because of his anger]]?anger and despair]]?
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** T'Chaka's motivation for [[spoiler:abandoning Killmonger in Oakland after killing N'Jobu]] is subject to this. While he claims it was to uphold the truth about Wakanda, is it possible that it was also [[spoiler:so N'Jobu's actions and his response would not be revealed to the other Wakandans? Did he not want to have the boy around and constantly be reminded that he had to kill his brother? Did he consider the boy to be unworthy of living in Wakanda because he had an American mother?]] Or was it a combination of any of these?
** Wakandan itself. A paradise just trying to defend itself? Or a group of self-righteous xenophobes willing to let the rest of the world suffer? Even ignoring Killmonger's point about how Wakandans refusing to save other African tribes from colonialism and slavery, and the suffering their tech and resources could have averted, keep in mind that at the time that this film takes place, there had been ''three'' [[Film/{{Thor}} alien]] [[Film/TheAvengers2012 invasions of]] [[Film/ThorTheDarkWorld the planet.]]
** Wakandan itself. A paradise just trying to defend itself? Or a group of self-righteous xenophobes willing to let the rest of the world suffer? Even ignoring Killmonger's point about how Wakandans refusing to save other African tribes from colonialism and slavery, and the suffering their tech and resources could have averted, keep in mind that at the time that this film takes place, there had been ''three'' [[Film/{{Thor}} alien]] [[Film/TheAvengers2012 invasions of]] [[Film/ThorTheDarkWorld the planet.]]
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to:
* ''Film/BlackPanther''
** Does [[BigBad Killmonger]] actually care about helping oppressed minorities, or is he just using their plight as an excuse to take revenge on a world he feels has wronged him personally? Support for the latter comes near the end of the film when he admits that he doesn't care so long as the world share his pain. Despite his entire mission statement about using Wakandan technology to improve the world, and T'Challa [[SaveTheVillain offering him a chance to repent]], he [[spoiler:kills himself rather than swallow his pride for the sake of actually helping people.]] It's also pointed out his [[spoiler:burning of the source of the Black Panther's powers was a tactic to destabilize Wakanda itself]], bringing into question if he actually even wanted to create a new world superpower or if he instead wanted to ravage the world and destroy Wakanda. However, if Killmonger really cares more about venting his rage, was he always motivated by selfish revenge or [[TheDarkSideWillMakeYouForget did he start out with genuinely selfless intentions only to lose sight because of his anger]]?
** Is Killmonger is a DeathSeeker? Besides [[spoiler:refusing medical help after his defeat]], he always chooses the self-destructive path. [[spoiler:He kills his girlfriend and burns the sacred garden]], implying that he isn't interested in having an heir or leaving a legacy for himself even though [[spoiler:he's a prince with a legitimate claim to the throne]]. Furthermore, despite having the skills and connections, Killmonger also chose not to follow a more heroic career like becoming a costumed vigilante, entering politics or starting his own company, thus denying himself the chance to help others and live a life of luxury without the needless deaths. The fact that Killmonger pursues self-defeating atrocities implies that he doesn't care about what happens to himself so long as everyone experiences his suffering. This only makes his evil plan [[FridgeHorror more horrifying in hindsight]], since it amounts to a [[MutualKill murder]]-[[SuicideByCop suicide]] as he intentionally wants to start a race war that will cause millions to die alongside him.
** T'Chaka's motivation for [[spoiler:abandoning Killmonger in Oakland after killing N'Jobu]] is subject to this. While he claims it was to uphold the truth about Wakanda, is it possible that it was also [[spoiler:so N'Jobu's actions and his response would not be revealed to the other Wakandans? Did he not want to have the boy around and constantly be reminded that he had to kill his brother? Did he consider the boy to be unworthy of living in Wakanda because he had an American mother?]] Or was it a combination of any of these?
** Wakandan itself. A paradise just trying to defend itself? Or a group of self-righteous xenophobes willing to let the rest of the world suffer? Even ignoring Killmonger's point about how Wakandans refusing to save other African tribes from colonialism and slavery, and the suffering their tech and resources could have averted, keep in mind that at the time that this film takes place, there had been ''three'' [[Film/{{Thor}} alien]] [[Film/TheAvengers2012 invasions of]] [[Film/ThorTheDarkWorld the planet.]]
** Does [[BigBad Killmonger]] actually care about helping oppressed minorities, or is he just using their plight as an excuse to take revenge on a world he feels has wronged him personally? Support for the latter comes near the end of the film when he admits that he doesn't care so long as the world share his pain. Despite his entire mission statement about using Wakandan technology to improve the world, and T'Challa [[SaveTheVillain offering him a chance to repent]], he [[spoiler:kills himself rather than swallow his pride for the sake of actually helping people.]] It's also pointed out his [[spoiler:burning of the source of the Black Panther's powers was a tactic to destabilize Wakanda itself]], bringing into question if he actually even wanted to create a new world superpower or if he instead wanted to ravage the world and destroy Wakanda. However, if Killmonger really cares more about venting his rage, was he always motivated by selfish revenge or [[TheDarkSideWillMakeYouForget did he start out with genuinely selfless intentions only to lose sight because of his anger]]?
** Is Killmonger is a DeathSeeker? Besides [[spoiler:refusing medical help after his defeat]], he always chooses the self-destructive path. [[spoiler:He kills his girlfriend and burns the sacred garden]], implying that he isn't interested in having an heir or leaving a legacy for himself even though [[spoiler:he's a prince with a legitimate claim to the throne]]. Furthermore, despite having the skills and connections, Killmonger also chose not to follow a more heroic career like becoming a costumed vigilante, entering politics or starting his own company, thus denying himself the chance to help others and live a life of luxury without the needless deaths. The fact that Killmonger pursues self-defeating atrocities implies that he doesn't care about what happens to himself so long as everyone experiences his suffering. This only makes his evil plan [[FridgeHorror more horrifying in hindsight]], since it amounts to a [[MutualKill murder]]-[[SuicideByCop suicide]] as he intentionally wants to start a race war that will cause millions to die alongside him.
** T'Chaka's motivation for [[spoiler:abandoning Killmonger in Oakland after killing N'Jobu]] is subject to this. While he claims it was to uphold the truth about Wakanda, is it possible that it was also [[spoiler:so N'Jobu's actions and his response would not be revealed to the other Wakandans? Did he not want to have the boy around and constantly be reminded that he had to kill his brother? Did he consider the boy to be unworthy of living in Wakanda because he had an American mother?]] Or was it a combination of any of these?
** Wakandan itself. A paradise just trying to defend itself? Or a group of self-righteous xenophobes willing to let the rest of the world suffer? Even ignoring Killmonger's point about how Wakandans refusing to save other African tribes from colonialism and slavery, and the suffering their tech and resources could have averted, keep in mind that at the time that this film takes place, there had been ''three'' [[Film/{{Thor}} alien]] [[Film/TheAvengers2012 invasions of]] [[Film/ThorTheDarkWorld the planet.]]
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->''“We’re [[MadScientist mad scientists]]. We’re monsters, buddy. We’ve gotta own it.”''
to:
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Changed line(s) 28 (click to see context) from:
** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions is somewhat justified and even somewhat tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who [[spoiler:wants to see The Avenger's destruction, and gladly crosses the MoralEventHorizon in order to see it happen?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about Hydra, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares is [[spoiler:to avenge the death of his family who perishes during the Battle of Sokovia, to which The Avengers is partly responsible, and when finally accomplishing that, clearly has no plans to do anything else and prepares to commit suicide. Further complicating this is the fact that T'Challa/the Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' that he is NotSoDifferent; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. He even admits to T'Challa that he feels sorry about causing his father's death during the bombing in Vienna.]]
to:
** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions is somewhat justified and even somewhat tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who [[spoiler:wants to see The Avenger's destruction, and gladly crosses the MoralEventHorizon in order to see it happen?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about Hydra, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares about is [[spoiler:to avenge [[spoiler:avenging the death of his family who perishes during family's deaths in the Battle of Sokovia, to Sokovia - which The Avengers is are partly responsible, responsible for - and when he finally accomplishing that, clearly has no plans to do anything else accomplishes his goal, he sits down and prepares to commit suicide. Further complicating this is the fact that complications: T'Challa/the Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' that he is NotSoDifferent; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. He Zemo even admits to tells T'Challa that he feels sorry about causing his father's death killing T'Chaka during the bombing in Vienna.]]
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->''“We’re [[MadScientist mad scientists]]. We’re monsters, buddy. We’ve gotta own it.”''
-->-- '''Tony Stark to Bruce Banner''', ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron''
-->-- '''Tony Stark to Bruce Banner''', ''Film/AvengersAgeOfUltron''
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!!Films with their own pages
[[index]]
* ''AlternativeCharacterInterpretation/AvengersInfinityWar''
[[/index]]
----
!!Films
* In ''Film/{{Thor}}'', Loki has inspired a lot of this discussion because the film leads the audience to potentially doubt everything he says since he's such an effective ManipulativeBastard: Did he always hate Thor or was it a simple grudge from SiblingRivalry that grew to CainAndAbel levels only after [[spoiler:he found out he was a Frost Giant]]? And does he really still consider himself [[spoiler:a son of Odin]], or was he just saying that as another manipulation?
** And it could go either way. As notoriously having a "silver tongue" he could be manipulating both the characters in the film ''and'' the audience. On the other hand, however, he genuinely comes across as a WellDoneSonGuy [[TheUnfavorite Unfavorite]] who wants nothing more than to move out from under the shadow of his older brother and receive some recognition for what he has done. The more popular opinion is that he is a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds, and this is the more likely possibility. If one just considers how much it would break a person to have always been TheUnfavorite all his life and then discover that he is in fact one of the creatures he was raised to hate and ''that'' is the reason why he was TheUnfavorite, then it is not shocking what Loki did. He set up a situation where he would have saved his father from an assassination attempt, an event that his father could not ignore. He attempted to destroy the creatures (which [[spoiler:''he was one of'']]) that were threatening war upon his land in the hopes that it would finally make him Thor's equal. But his attempt failed, as did his attempt to explain to his father why he had done such a thing. And... it's also more popular because girls do love their DracoInLeatherPants.
** One could also argue whether his fall at the end of ''Film/{{Thor}}'' was a suicide attempt or an escape route to plan more evil deeds. Depending upon the character interpretation, whether Loki is a MagnificentBastard or a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds, Odin's telling him that what he did would not make him proud could either have been the final straw that drove him to suicide or that drove him to full out, unredeemable evil.
** Speaking of which, did Laufey really [[spoiler:abandon Loki]]? Or did he [[spoiler:leave him near the Casket for safekeeping]] and spend the last millennia thinking Odin [[spoiler:murdered his infant son]]?
*** If Loki really was left near the Casket (which I doubt) then putting a baby you want to protect next to your most powerful weapon that the other forces are probably going to go looking for is a ''terrible''' plan and in no way going to ensure that he'd stay safe. Besides, if Loki wasn't abandoned then why wasn't he being watched overy by a civilian or something? We didn't hear anything about Odin slaughtering Loki's guards and then just happening to find an "abandoned" baby. Although Odin would probably realize that part of the story makes him look less sympathetic.
*** In a scripted, but unfilmed scene Laufey admits that he believed Loki to be dead, and had no intentions of keeping him.
---> LAUFEY: Ah, the bastard son. I thought Odin had killed you. That's what I would have done. He's as weak as you are.
** ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'' throws even more wrenches into the mix, especially regarding [[spoiler: Loki's death scene. Did he really mean it when he apologised to Thor, or was it just a ploy to gain Thor's sympathy after his 'death?' Or did he not mean it but said it anyway because he does care about his brother somewhat? It doesn't help that the audience doesn't know whether he actually faked his death, or actually died and it didn't take, which would massively change the meaning and motivations of his words.]]
** ''Everything'' [[spoiler: said in the final scene between Thor and Odin once it is revealed that Odin is actually Loki in disguise.]]
* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'':
** Because of the story's government versus anti-government plot, people are already politicizing the story and thus the characters. Following Cap's actions in ''Winter Soldier'' (in which he entirely shut down a government agency when half of it proved corrupt and the other half inept to stop it), MCU Cap [[http://tinyurl.com/qx947hf has already been branded a hardcore libertarian icon]].
** The initial trailers implied that Tony was fighting against Cap simply over different approaches to heroism, while the film shows that they really come to blows over Bucky. Regardless, it's disputed whether their conflict was also fueled by whatever grudges the two have had since the first ''Avengers'' flick.
** A lot of the parts revolving around Bucky have this trope in-universe as well as out. Steve believes Bucky is an innocent victim while others see him as dangerous due to his brainwashing, which can be activated by ''anyone'' who knows the proper trigger phrase.
** Sebastian Stan has suggested that Bucky is lying when he says he remembers [[spoiler: killing Tony's parents, because he would rather tell Tony what he wants to hear [[DeathSeeker in order to make his death as quick as possible.]]]]
** Iron Man's morality can certainly be called into question in regards to his ties to Spider-Man. Is Tony trying to help an AscendedFanboy make a difference in the world with his powers, or is he simply trying to exploit the abilities of a NaiveNewcomer for the sole purpose of advancing his own goals? Furthermore, the fact that Peter Parker is '''[[ChildSoldier a minor]]''' being brought into the conflict also raises a completely different set of questions about Tony's moral compass.
** Is Vision [[spoiler:keeping Scarlet Witch company]] because he genuinely cares about her, or [[spoiler:is he just following Tony's orders to make sure she stays put]]? And is Tony [[spoiler:trying to keep her in his mansion]] because it's for her own good, or because [[spoiler:he's scared of her and her powers]]? The fact that neither Vision or Tony [[spoiler:is doing anything to help a clearly distressed Wanda in captivity towards the end of the film]] really makes you wonder.
** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions is somewhat justified and even somewhat tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who [[spoiler:wants to see The Avenger's destruction, and gladly crosses the MoralEventHorizon in order to see it happen?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about Hydra, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares is [[spoiler:to avenge the death of his family who perishes during the Battle of Sokovia, to which The Avengers is partly responsible, and when finally accomplishing that, clearly has no plans to do anything else and prepares to commit suicide. Further complicating this is the fact that T'Challa/the Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' that he is NotSoDifferent; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. He even admits to T'Challa that he feels sorry about causing his father's death during the bombing in Vienna.]]
** Is Black Widow [[spoiler:betraying Iron Man's team and letting Steve and Bucky escape because she honestly thinks Steve is in the right while Tony is mostly motivated by his own ego and flawed logic? Or is her allegiance biased herself because of her closer relationship with Steve than Tony, considering what they had gone through together in ''The Winter Soldier''? She's also established in the beginning of the film that she supports Tony's decision to sign the Sokovia Accords but she also tries her hardest to convince Steve to change his mind without being too antagonistic, so the reason she lets him go at the airport might be because she really doesn't want to bring him in. And finally, at the ending of the film, she's gone into hiding when the government agents come to arrest her, but let her other compatriots behind to be imprisoned in The Raft until Steve breaks them out. Is this the sign of the "doing whatever it takes to survive, even by playing both sides" mindset that Tony accuses her of, or she genuinely cannot find a way to break them out on her own, considering the nature of the [[TheAlcatraz prison itself]]?]] Or is it because she [[spoiler: knows all too well what the Winter Soldier really is (because she was similarly used as a tool and living weapon by nasty people), so she is actually more or less neutral in the whole conflict and willing to see that both sides have ''very'' good reasons for their actions? Hawkeye probably did something similar for her way back when, and saved her from possible execution or a life sentence in jail. So, she's acting out of loyalty to both Steve ''and'' Clint, and out of sympathy for Bucky while still agreeing with Tony's point that there needs to be safeguards against people like her?]]
** Is Steve really fighting the Accords because he genuinely thinks that the Accords are wrong? Or is he fighting against them for more [[InHarmsWay personal reasons]] that he can't, or won't, admit to himself?
** Is Steve using Sharon as a ReplacementGoldfish for [[spoiler:Peggy]]? His interest in her does seem to increase once he finds out Sharon's parentage, and as his dedication to Bucky throughout shows, Steve tries to hold on to whatever he can from the past.
** Did Steve [[spoiler: leave his shield behind because he agreed with Tony's claims that he didn't deserve it or as a bitter "are you happy now?" gesture?]]
!!Shows
* ''Series/AgentsOfShield'': While no one will argue that Ward is not a villain, the agents exhibit behavior that can make them [[DesignatedHero designated heroes]], and it can also be argued that the sole reason they care about the Inhumans at all is because of Daisy/Skye.
** The DesignatedHero actions of Coulson in the first season are elaborated on in [[http://nerdcentralofficial.blogspot.com/2016/01/a-knight-in-tarnished-armor-why-this.html this blog post]] which straddles this trope and RonTheDeathEater.
[[index]]
* ''AlternativeCharacterInterpretation/AvengersInfinityWar''
[[/index]]
----
!!Films
* In ''Film/{{Thor}}'', Loki has inspired a lot of this discussion because the film leads the audience to potentially doubt everything he says since he's such an effective ManipulativeBastard: Did he always hate Thor or was it a simple grudge from SiblingRivalry that grew to CainAndAbel levels only after [[spoiler:he found out he was a Frost Giant]]? And does he really still consider himself [[spoiler:a son of Odin]], or was he just saying that as another manipulation?
** And it could go either way. As notoriously having a "silver tongue" he could be manipulating both the characters in the film ''and'' the audience. On the other hand, however, he genuinely comes across as a WellDoneSonGuy [[TheUnfavorite Unfavorite]] who wants nothing more than to move out from under the shadow of his older brother and receive some recognition for what he has done. The more popular opinion is that he is a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds, and this is the more likely possibility. If one just considers how much it would break a person to have always been TheUnfavorite all his life and then discover that he is in fact one of the creatures he was raised to hate and ''that'' is the reason why he was TheUnfavorite, then it is not shocking what Loki did. He set up a situation where he would have saved his father from an assassination attempt, an event that his father could not ignore. He attempted to destroy the creatures (which [[spoiler:''he was one of'']]) that were threatening war upon his land in the hopes that it would finally make him Thor's equal. But his attempt failed, as did his attempt to explain to his father why he had done such a thing. And... it's also more popular because girls do love their DracoInLeatherPants.
** One could also argue whether his fall at the end of ''Film/{{Thor}}'' was a suicide attempt or an escape route to plan more evil deeds. Depending upon the character interpretation, whether Loki is a MagnificentBastard or a WoobieDestroyerOfWorlds, Odin's telling him that what he did would not make him proud could either have been the final straw that drove him to suicide or that drove him to full out, unredeemable evil.
** Speaking of which, did Laufey really [[spoiler:abandon Loki]]? Or did he [[spoiler:leave him near the Casket for safekeeping]] and spend the last millennia thinking Odin [[spoiler:murdered his infant son]]?
*** If Loki really was left near the Casket (which I doubt) then putting a baby you want to protect next to your most powerful weapon that the other forces are probably going to go looking for is a ''terrible''' plan and in no way going to ensure that he'd stay safe. Besides, if Loki wasn't abandoned then why wasn't he being watched overy by a civilian or something? We didn't hear anything about Odin slaughtering Loki's guards and then just happening to find an "abandoned" baby. Although Odin would probably realize that part of the story makes him look less sympathetic.
*** In a scripted, but unfilmed scene Laufey admits that he believed Loki to be dead, and had no intentions of keeping him.
---> LAUFEY: Ah, the bastard son. I thought Odin had killed you. That's what I would have done. He's as weak as you are.
** ''Film/ThorTheDarkWorld'' throws even more wrenches into the mix, especially regarding [[spoiler: Loki's death scene. Did he really mean it when he apologised to Thor, or was it just a ploy to gain Thor's sympathy after his 'death?' Or did he not mean it but said it anyway because he does care about his brother somewhat? It doesn't help that the audience doesn't know whether he actually faked his death, or actually died and it didn't take, which would massively change the meaning and motivations of his words.]]
** ''Everything'' [[spoiler: said in the final scene between Thor and Odin once it is revealed that Odin is actually Loki in disguise.]]
* ''Film/CaptainAmericaCivilWar'':
** Because of the story's government versus anti-government plot, people are already politicizing the story and thus the characters. Following Cap's actions in ''Winter Soldier'' (in which he entirely shut down a government agency when half of it proved corrupt and the other half inept to stop it), MCU Cap [[http://tinyurl.com/qx947hf has already been branded a hardcore libertarian icon]].
** The initial trailers implied that Tony was fighting against Cap simply over different approaches to heroism, while the film shows that they really come to blows over Bucky. Regardless, it's disputed whether their conflict was also fueled by whatever grudges the two have had since the first ''Avengers'' flick.
** A lot of the parts revolving around Bucky have this trope in-universe as well as out. Steve believes Bucky is an innocent victim while others see him as dangerous due to his brainwashing, which can be activated by ''anyone'' who knows the proper trigger phrase.
** Sebastian Stan has suggested that Bucky is lying when he says he remembers [[spoiler: killing Tony's parents, because he would rather tell Tony what he wants to hear [[DeathSeeker in order to make his death as quick as possible.]]]]
** Iron Man's morality can certainly be called into question in regards to his ties to Spider-Man. Is Tony trying to help an AscendedFanboy make a difference in the world with his powers, or is he simply trying to exploit the abilities of a NaiveNewcomer for the sole purpose of advancing his own goals? Furthermore, the fact that Peter Parker is '''[[ChildSoldier a minor]]''' being brought into the conflict also raises a completely different set of questions about Tony's moral compass.
** Is Vision [[spoiler:keeping Scarlet Witch company]] because he genuinely cares about her, or [[spoiler:is he just following Tony's orders to make sure she stays put]]? And is Tony [[spoiler:trying to keep her in his mansion]] because it's for her own good, or because [[spoiler:he's scared of her and her powers]]? The fact that neither Vision or Tony [[spoiler:is doing anything to help a clearly distressed Wanda in captivity towards the end of the film]] really makes you wonder.
** Is Helmut Zemo an AntiVillain whose actions is somewhat justified and even somewhat tragic? Or is he a ManipulativeBastard who [[spoiler:wants to see The Avenger's destruction, and gladly crosses the MoralEventHorizon in order to see it happen?]] This incarnation of him doesn't seem to care about Hydra, saying that they deserved to be taken down. All he cares is [[spoiler:to avenge the death of his family who perishes during the Battle of Sokovia, to which The Avengers is partly responsible, and when finally accomplishing that, clearly has no plans to do anything else and prepares to commit suicide. Further complicating this is the fact that T'Challa/the Black Panther is Pro-Reg not because of any moral stance, but simply because he wanted a chance to kill Bucky - and actually ''admits'' that he is NotSoDifferent; he would have killed an innocent man out of misplaced vengeance if circumstances had been otherwise. He even admits to T'Challa that he feels sorry about causing his father's death during the bombing in Vienna.]]
** Is Black Widow [[spoiler:betraying Iron Man's team and letting Steve and Bucky escape because she honestly thinks Steve is in the right while Tony is mostly motivated by his own ego and flawed logic? Or is her allegiance biased herself because of her closer relationship with Steve than Tony, considering what they had gone through together in ''The Winter Soldier''? She's also established in the beginning of the film that she supports Tony's decision to sign the Sokovia Accords but she also tries her hardest to convince Steve to change his mind without being too antagonistic, so the reason she lets him go at the airport might be because she really doesn't want to bring him in. And finally, at the ending of the film, she's gone into hiding when the government agents come to arrest her, but let her other compatriots behind to be imprisoned in The Raft until Steve breaks them out. Is this the sign of the "doing whatever it takes to survive, even by playing both sides" mindset that Tony accuses her of, or she genuinely cannot find a way to break them out on her own, considering the nature of the [[TheAlcatraz prison itself]]?]] Or is it because she [[spoiler: knows all too well what the Winter Soldier really is (because she was similarly used as a tool and living weapon by nasty people), so she is actually more or less neutral in the whole conflict and willing to see that both sides have ''very'' good reasons for their actions? Hawkeye probably did something similar for her way back when, and saved her from possible execution or a life sentence in jail. So, she's acting out of loyalty to both Steve ''and'' Clint, and out of sympathy for Bucky while still agreeing with Tony's point that there needs to be safeguards against people like her?]]
** Is Steve really fighting the Accords because he genuinely thinks that the Accords are wrong? Or is he fighting against them for more [[InHarmsWay personal reasons]] that he can't, or won't, admit to himself?
** Is Steve using Sharon as a ReplacementGoldfish for [[spoiler:Peggy]]? His interest in her does seem to increase once he finds out Sharon's parentage, and as his dedication to Bucky throughout shows, Steve tries to hold on to whatever he can from the past.
** Did Steve [[spoiler: leave his shield behind because he agreed with Tony's claims that he didn't deserve it or as a bitter "are you happy now?" gesture?]]
!!Shows
* ''Series/AgentsOfShield'': While no one will argue that Ward is not a villain, the agents exhibit behavior that can make them [[DesignatedHero designated heroes]], and it can also be argued that the sole reason they care about the Inhumans at all is because of Daisy/Skye.
** The DesignatedHero actions of Coulson in the first season are elaborated on in [[http://nerdcentralofficial.blogspot.com/2016/01/a-knight-in-tarnished-armor-why-this.html this blog post]] which straddles this trope and RonTheDeathEater.
