[001]
boonerunner
Current Version
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
*** Except it doesn\'t. In canon, Zuko doesn\'t hold it against Aang, even going so far as to wait in his room with the Air Monk\'s staff to confront him, there\'s no \
to:
*** Except it doesn\\\'t. In canon, Zuko doesn\\\'t hold it against Aang, even going so far as to wait in his room with the Air Monk\\\'s staff to confront him, there\\\'s no \\\"You Lied To Me\\\" or \\\"You Promised\\\" uttered on Zuko\\\'s behalf. By all reasoning there is no ValuesDissonance on the subject because Zuko never brings it up. It seems to be put there to [[ConflictBall keep Zuko and Iroh on separate sides from the Avatar without putting them on Ozai\\\'s side]].
****Actually, in canon, Zuko never found out about the specific aspect of Aang\\\'s behavior at the South Pole that he objects to. He just thought that Aang had been a little irresponsible - not a good trait in TheMessiah, but certainly not unforgivable - until Aang told him what had really been going on in Embers. THEN he got upset.
**** Could be argued that in canon Zuko\\\'s not really in a position to hold anything against Aang, whereas here Zuko is more on equal footing. Still ConflictBall in how it\\\'s handled
**** You\\\'re all missing the point. Zuko \\\'\\\'never once\\\'\\\' went \\\"How dare you escape!\\\" His issue at first was \\\"You do realize that there are consequences, you little fool?\\\" But then he found out Aang never intended to go through with his promise from the moment Aang made it. Honor in the Fire Nation is like being part of the Tribe in the Water Tribes--You can steal from pirates, and [[MoralMyopia that\\\'s not stealing, because they aren\\\'t part of the tribe]]. Likewise as Iroh noted when they met Huojin, guards do not usually protect people in their circumstance. From Zuko\\\'s point of view, breaking your word and never intending to live up to it are two different things. The latter implies that you view the other as a [[MoralMyopia nonperson]], and through them everyone under them. In [[spoiler:Zuko\\\'s apology to Katara]], it\\\'s revealed that the worst of the Fire Nation soldiers regard the other races as non-persons who thus don\\\'t need to be treated honorably. Meaning the Avatar may have said he\\\'d meant to play a trick but what Zuko heard [[CultureClash was him using an excuse just as intrinsically evil as \\\"I was just following orders.\\\"]]
*** But Zuko threatening to murder Water Tribe women and children, including Katara\\\'s grandmother, in order to root out the Avatar is completely excused because Fire Nation grandmothers are all trained killers according to Iroh. No, lying and escaping to the Fire Prince is utterly dishonorable and Aang is lucky Zuko did not turn around and massacre the entire tribe which would be perfectly reasonable according to Fire Nation ethics.
**** This is the reason why uniforms are so important it\\\'s a war crime not to use them: Zuko had to act as if she was carrying a weapon. If you don\\\'t know whether or not someone was a threat, you have to treat them as though they are. Can you blame Zuko for assuming the Water Tribes wouldn\\\'t be negligent enough to leave their families behind with nothing but a half-trained teenager to protect them? Secondly, the inhumanity of Fire Nation military policy is underlined in Embers. Zuko isn\\\'t saying it would have been reasonable to massacre the tribe, he\\\'s saying that a normal captain, a loyal follower of Ozai in charge of a warship, would have done so.
*** To make the culture clash even MORE complicated, Aang thought that ZUKO was the one who lied first. When Zuko threatened to destroy the village unless Aang came along, Aang could tell (from his mastery of airbending) that Zuko really didn\\\'t want to carry out that threat. Airbender honor is about freedom and demands that you follow your heart, so an airbender making the same claim that Zuko was making would have been bluffing; what Aang failed to understand was that firebender honor is about loyalty and that Zuko was NOT bluffing. So both of them thought that the other lied first and that his own actions were justified.
****Actually, in canon, Zuko never found out about the specific aspect of Aang\\\'s behavior at the South Pole that he objects to. He just thought that Aang had been a little irresponsible - not a good trait in TheMessiah, but certainly not unforgivable - until Aang told him what had really been going on in Embers. THEN he got upset.
**** Could be argued that in canon Zuko\\\'s not really in a position to hold anything against Aang, whereas here Zuko is more on equal footing. Still ConflictBall in how it\\\'s handled
**** You\\\'re all missing the point. Zuko \\\'\\\'never once\\\'\\\' went \\\"How dare you escape!\\\" His issue at first was \\\"You do realize that there are consequences, you little fool?\\\" But then he found out Aang never intended to go through with his promise from the moment Aang made it. Honor in the Fire Nation is like being part of the Tribe in the Water Tribes--You can steal from pirates, and [[MoralMyopia that\\\'s not stealing, because they aren\\\'t part of the tribe]]. Likewise as Iroh noted when they met Huojin, guards do not usually protect people in their circumstance. From Zuko\\\'s point of view, breaking your word and never intending to live up to it are two different things. The latter implies that you view the other as a [[MoralMyopia nonperson]], and through them everyone under them. In [[spoiler:Zuko\\\'s apology to Katara]], it\\\'s revealed that the worst of the Fire Nation soldiers regard the other races as non-persons who thus don\\\'t need to be treated honorably. Meaning the Avatar may have said he\\\'d meant to play a trick but what Zuko heard [[CultureClash was him using an excuse just as intrinsically evil as \\\"I was just following orders.\\\"]]
*** But Zuko threatening to murder Water Tribe women and children, including Katara\\\'s grandmother, in order to root out the Avatar is completely excused because Fire Nation grandmothers are all trained killers according to Iroh. No, lying and escaping to the Fire Prince is utterly dishonorable and Aang is lucky Zuko did not turn around and massacre the entire tribe which would be perfectly reasonable according to Fire Nation ethics.
**** This is the reason why uniforms are so important it\\\'s a war crime not to use them: Zuko had to act as if she was carrying a weapon. If you don\\\'t know whether or not someone was a threat, you have to treat them as though they are. Can you blame Zuko for assuming the Water Tribes wouldn\\\'t be negligent enough to leave their families behind with nothing but a half-trained teenager to protect them? Secondly, the inhumanity of Fire Nation military policy is underlined in Embers. Zuko isn\\\'t saying it would have been reasonable to massacre the tribe, he\\\'s saying that a normal captain, a loyal follower of Ozai in charge of a warship, would have done so.
*** To make the culture clash even MORE complicated, Aang thought that ZUKO was the one who lied first. When Zuko threatened to destroy the village unless Aang came along, Aang could tell (from his mastery of airbending) that Zuko really didn\\\'t want to carry out that threat. Airbender honor is about freedom and demands that you follow your heart, so an airbender making the same claim that Zuko was making would have been bluffing; what Aang failed to understand was that firebender honor is about loyalty and that Zuko was NOT bluffing. So both of them thought that the other lied first and that his own actions were justified.
