[007]
174.93.166.176
Current Version
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \
to:
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\\\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \\\"tulip\\\" (hey, it\\\'s the flower metaphor again) since the boy first arrived at court, so at one point he must have shared that piece of gossip with Cersei, if for no other reason than to crack a gay joke (which he clearly enjoys doing). In Season 1, Littlefinger is very much aware of Renly\\\'s relationship with Loras (and I think it\\\'s safe to assume that he was informed about their affair a long time ago because he has a lot more spies than Cersei), so even at this early stage, Renly and Loras\\\' romance is an OpenSecret at court. Even if Joffrey ignored the rumours about the two men (which I doubt), Cersei would at least mention their homosexuality when he was old enough to understand these things as part of her \\\"anyone who isn\\\'t us is an enemy\\\" lesson so that Joff could potentially use this knowledge against them one day.
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at the king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, since inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king. Renly is quite good at reading people, and he would notice that Joff\\\'s wickedness worsens as he gets older and gains more power; it\\\'s only a matter of time before his \\\"nephew\\\" tortures and/or executes anyone he despises (\\\"degenerates\\\" included).
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" could mean wholly invalid?
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at the king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, since inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king. Renly is quite good at reading people, and he would notice that Joff\\\'s wickedness worsens as he gets older and gains more power; it\\\'s only a matter of time before his \\\"nephew\\\" tortures and/or executes anyone he despises (\\\"degenerates\\\" included).
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" could mean wholly invalid?
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \
to:
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\\\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \\\"tulip\\\" (hey, it\\\'s the flower metaphor again) since the boy first arrived at court, so at one point he must have shared that piece of gossip with Cersei, if for no other reason than to crack a gay joke (which he clearly enjoys doing). In Season 1, Littlefinger is very much aware of Renly\\\'s relationship with Loras (and I think it\\\'s safe to assume that he was informed about their affair a long time ago because he has a lot more spies than Cersei), so even at this early stage, Renly and Loras\\\' romance is an OpenSecret at court. Even if Joffrey ignored the rumours about the two men (which I doubt), Cersei would at least mention their homosexuality when he was old enough to understand these things as part of her \\\"anyone who isn\\\'t us is an enemy\\\" lesson so that Joff could potentially use this knowledge against them one day.
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at the king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, as inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king. Renly is quite good at reading people, and he would notice that Joff\\\'s wickedness worsens as he gets older and gains more power; it\\\'s only a matter of time before his \\\"nephew\\\" tortures and/or executes anyone he despises (\\\"degenerates\\\" included).
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" could mean wholly invalid?
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at the king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, as inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king. Renly is quite good at reading people, and he would notice that Joff\\\'s wickedness worsens as he gets older and gains more power; it\\\'s only a matter of time before his \\\"nephew\\\" tortures and/or executes anyone he despises (\\\"degenerates\\\" included).
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" could mean wholly invalid?
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \
to:
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\\\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \\\"tulip\\\" (hey, it\\\'s the flower metaphor again) since the boy first arrived at court, so at one point he must have shared that piece of gossip with Cersei, if for no other reason than to crack a gay joke (which he clearly enjoys doing). In Season 1, Littlefinger is very much aware of Renly\\\'s relationship with Loras (and I think it\\\'s safe to assume that he was informed about their affair a long time ago because he has a lot more spies than Cersei), so even at this early stage, Renly and Loras\\\' romance is an OpenSecret at court. Even if Joffrey ignored the rumours about the two men (which I doubt), Cersei would at least mention their homosexuality when he was old enough to understand these things as part of her \\\"anyone who isn\\\'t us is an enemy\\\" lesson so that Joff could potentially use this knowledge against them one day.
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at the king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, as inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king.
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"monster\\\" could mean in the shaving scene wholly invalid?
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at the king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, as inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king.
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"monster\\\" could mean in the shaving scene wholly invalid?
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \
to:
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\\\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \\\"tulip\\\" (hey, it\\\'s the flower metaphor again) since the boy first arrived at court, so at one point he must have shared that piece of gossip with Cersei, if for no other reason than to crack a gay joke (which he clearly enjoys doing). In Season 1, Littlefinger is very much aware of Renly\\\'s relationship with Loras (and I think it\\\'s safe to assume that he was informed about their affair a long time ago because he has a lot more spies than Cersei), so even at this early stage, Renly and Loras\\\' romance is an OpenSecret at court. Even if Joffrey ignored the rumours about the two men (which I doubt), Cersei would at least mention their homosexuality when he was old enough to understand these things as part of her \\\"anyone who isn\\\'t us is an enemy\\\" lesson so that Joff could potentially use this knowledge against them one day.
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, as inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king.
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"monster\\\" could mean in the shaving scene wholly invalid?
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, as inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king.
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"monster\\\" could mean in the shaving scene wholly invalid?
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \
to:
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\\\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \\\"tulip\\\" (hey, it\\\'s the flower metaphor again) since the boy first arrived at court, so at one point he must have shared that piece of gossip with Cersei, if for no other reason than to crack a gay joke (which he clearly enjoys doing). In Season 1, Littlefinger is very much aware of Renly\\\'s relationship with Loras (and I think it\\\'s safe to assume that he was informed about their romance a long time ago because he has a lot more spies than Cersei), so even at this early stage, Renly and Loras\\\' romance is an OpenSecret at court. Even if Joffrey ignored the rumours about the two men (which I doubt), Cersei would at least mention their homosexuality when he was old enough to understand these things as part of her \\\"anyone who isn\\\'t us is an enemy\\\" lesson so that Joff could potentially use this knowledge against them one day.
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, as inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king.
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"monster\\\" could mean in the shaving scene wholly invalid?
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, as inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king.
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"monster\\\" could mean in the shaving scene wholly invalid?
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \
to:
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\\\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \\\"tulip\\\" (hey, it\\\'s the flower metaphor again) since the boy first arrived at court, so at one point he must have shared that piece of gossip with Cersei, if for no other reason than to crack a gay joke (which he clearly enjoys doing). In Season 1, Littlefinger is very much aware of Renly\\\'s relationship with Loras (and I think it\\\'s safe to assume that he has known about their romance for a long time because he has a lot more spies than Cersei), so even at this early stage, Renly and Loras\\\' romance is an OpenSecret at court. Even if Joffrey ignored the rumours about the two men (which I doubt), Cersei would at least mention their homosexuality when he was old enough to understand these things as part of her \\\"anyone who isn\\\'t us is an enemy\\\" lesson so that Joff could potentially use this knowledge against them one day.
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, as inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king.
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"monster\\\" could mean in the shaving scene wholly invalid?
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, as inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king.
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"monster\\\" could mean in the shaving scene wholly invalid?
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \
to:
Cersei was the one who raised Joffrey, not Robert, and Cersei certainly knew about Renly\\\'s sexuality even before the series began (she does have her own spies, after all). If you doubt that, then Jaime at least claimed to have known that Renly was a \\\"tulip\\\" (hey, it\\\'s the flower metaphor again) since the boy first arrived at court, so at one point he must have shared that piece of gossip with Cersei, if for no other reason than to crack a gay joke (which he clearly enjoys doing). In Season 1, Littlefinger is very much aware of Renly\\\'s relationship with Loras (and I think it\\\'s safe to assume that he has known about this for a long time because he has a lot more spies than Cersei), so even at this early stage, Renly and Loras\\\' romance is an OpenSecret at court. Even if Joffrey ignored the rumours about the two men (which I doubt), Cersei would at least mention their homosexuality when he was old enough to understand these things as part of her \\\"anyone who isn\\\'t us is an enemy\\\" lesson so that Joff could potentially use this knowledge against them one day.
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, as inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king.
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"monster\\\" could mean in the shaving scene wholly invalid?
Littlefinger openly mocked Renly\\\'s sexuality in his face at the Tourney of the Hand (\\\"...when will you be having \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' friend?\\\"), which is a very public event, and everyone around them in the stands could hear their conversation as the two men were not whispering. Renly instantly became fearful and immediately halted his snarky comments, and Petyr even managed to squeeze in a smug smirk before sitting down. If a minor noble like Littlefinger can freely poke fun at king\\\'s youngest brother and the Lord of Storm\\\'s End for being gay in front of a crowd without suffering any consequences (not even a verbal threat), then Prince Joffrey could get away with at least that (and probably more). Renly\\\'s high status and likeability clearly don\\\'t protect him from personal or public ridicule.
Joff is nothing if not a bully, and bullies love to pick on easy targets (which Renly definitely is if he can\\\'t even get the lowly-ranked and reviled Petyr to shut his trap). With that in mind, I find it hard to believe than an extreme homophobe like Joffrey (who isn\\\'t just disgusted by gays, but actually wants them \\\'\\\'eliminated\\\'\\\') wouldn\\\'t at least pick up on the gossip (or learn the truth from his mother), and then use the information to make the life of his \\\"degenerate\\\" uncle more miserable. Joff gets a kick out of humiliating others, and he won\\\'t be punished for mocking Renly (not even a literal slap on the wrist, as the Petyr example shows), so what\\\'s to stop him? The boy is a psychopath who only fears his \\\"father\\\'s\\\" wrath, and Robert himself belittles Renly\\\'s masculinity.
I thought YMMV page allowed for a little more flexibility in how we interpret what we see on the show. This trope is called HarsherInHindsight, and I do find Loras\\\' \\\"Joffrey is a monster\\\" line to be slightly more disturbing now after watching \\\"Dark Wings, Dark Words\\\". It suddenly made me consider for the first time that Renly views Joff this way not just because he had witnessed him do horrible things (like cutting open a pregnant cat as stated in the novels), but it would be very much in Joffrey\\\'s cruel nature to spew (figurative) filth at NonActionGuy Renly for being gay, as inflicting actual physical harm is out of the question for as long as Robert is king.
If I find a way to reword my entry for this trope, would it be more acceptable, or is my new interpretation of what \\\"monster\\\" could mean in the shaving scene wholly invalid?
