[004]
ClassicalPedant
Current Version
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Regarding the song title \
to:
Regarding the song title \\\"Primo Victoria\\\", \\\"May the best man win\\\" is at least a plausible translation and not grammatically incorrect.
I think the confusion was that some one thought that the two words were respectively a noun, and an adjective describing said noun. In such case, yes, the lack of agreement in case and gender would be annoying and nonsensical.
Rather, I claim that the adjective is \\\"Primus\\\" in the Singular Masculine Dative, and describes not the Victory itself, but the man or force of men to whom the victory goes. It is not unusual in Latin to use an adjective with only an understood object noun (indeed, distinguishing between \\\"Nomina\\\" and \\\"Nomina Adiectiva\\\" at all occurred fairly late historically.)
Also, \\\"Primus\\\" can be used to mean First not only in a strict mathematical sense, but also in an analogous hierarchical sense, as in the phrase \\\"Primus inter Pares\\\" (First among Equals). Thus, using it to mean \\\"first [in valor]\\\" or \\\"best\\\" is plausible.
Include the understood verb \\\"sit\\\" or \\\"fiat and you get a perfectly correct sentence: Primo [exercitui] sit Victoria. That is: May Victory be to the First [army].
I hope I\\\'m not being offensive, and yes, I suspect that Sabaton does in fact carelessly lift their Latin from google translate! But that said, even a broken clock is right twice a day. ;)
Cheers! I remain always truly, your
-Classical Pedant
I think the confusion was that some one thought that the two words were respectively a noun, and an adjective describing said noun. In such case, yes, the lack of agreement in case and gender would be annoying and nonsensical.
Rather, I claim that the adjective is \\\"Primus\\\" in the Singular Masculine Dative, and describes not the Victory itself, but the man or force of men to whom the victory goes. It is not unusual in Latin to use an adjective with only an understood object noun (indeed, distinguishing between \\\"Nomina\\\" and \\\"Nomina Adiectiva\\\" at all occurred fairly late historically.)
Also, \\\"Primus\\\" can be used to mean First not only in a strict mathematical sense, but also in an analogous hierarchical sense, as in the phrase \\\"Primus inter Pares\\\" (First among Equals). Thus, using it to mean \\\"first [in valor]\\\" or \\\"best\\\" is plausible.
Include the understood verb \\\"sit\\\" or \\\"fiat and you get a perfectly correct sentence: Primo [exercitui] sit Victoria. That is: May Victory be to the First [army].
I hope I\\\'m not being offensive, and yes, I suspect that Sabaton does in fact carelessly lift their Latin from google translate! But that said, even a broken clock is right twice a day. ;)
Cheers! I remain always truly, your
-Classical Pedant
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
Regarding the song title \
to:
Regarding the song title \\\"Primo Victoria\\\", \\\"May the best man win\\\" is at least a plausible translation and not grammatically incorrect.
I think the confusion was that some one thought that the two words were respectively a noun, and an adjective describing said noun. In such case, yes, the lack of agreement in case and gender would be annoying and nonsensical.
Rather, I claim that the adjective is \\\"Primus\\\" in the Singular Masculine Dative, and describes not the Victory itself, but the man or force of men to whom the victory goes. It is not unusual in Latin to use an adjective with only an understood object noun (indeed, distinguishing between \\\"Nomina\\\" and \\\"Nomina Adiectiva\\\" at all occurred fairly late historically.)
\\\"Primus\\\" can be used to mean First not only in a strict mathematical sense, but also in an analogous hierarchical sense, in in the phrase \\\"Primus inter Pares\\\" (First among Equals). Thus, using it to mean \\\"first [in valor]\\\" or \\\"best\\\" is plausible.
Include the understood verb \\\"sit\\\" or \\\"fiat and you get a perfectly correct sentence: Primo [exercitui] sit Victoria. That is: May Victory be to the First [army].
I hope I\\\'m not being offensive, and yes, I suspect that Sabaton does in fact carelessly lift their Latin from google translate! But that said, even a broken clock is right twice a day. ;)
Cheers! I remain always truly, your
-Classical Pedant
I think the confusion was that some one thought that the two words were respectively a noun, and an adjective describing said noun. In such case, yes, the lack of agreement in case and gender would be annoying and nonsensical.
Rather, I claim that the adjective is \\\"Primus\\\" in the Singular Masculine Dative, and describes not the Victory itself, but the man or force of men to whom the victory goes. It is not unusual in Latin to use an adjective with only an understood object noun (indeed, distinguishing between \\\"Nomina\\\" and \\\"Nomina Adiectiva\\\" at all occurred fairly late historically.)
\\\"Primus\\\" can be used to mean First not only in a strict mathematical sense, but also in an analogous hierarchical sense, in in the phrase \\\"Primus inter Pares\\\" (First among Equals). Thus, using it to mean \\\"first [in valor]\\\" or \\\"best\\\" is plausible.
Include the understood verb \\\"sit\\\" or \\\"fiat and you get a perfectly correct sentence: Primo [exercitui] sit Victoria. That is: May Victory be to the First [army].
I hope I\\\'m not being offensive, and yes, I suspect that Sabaton does in fact carelessly lift their Latin from google translate! But that said, even a broken clock is right twice a day. ;)
Cheers! I remain always truly, your
-Classical Pedant
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
Regarding the song title \
to:
Regarding the song title \\\"Primo Victoria\\\", \\\"May the best man win\\\" is at least a plausible translation and not grammatically incorrect.
I think the confusion was that some one thought that the two words were respectively a noun, and an adjective describing said noun. In such case, yes, the lack of agreement in case and gender would be annoying and nonsensical.
Rather, I claim that the adjective is \\\"Primus\\\" in the Singular Masculine Dative, and describes not the Victory itself, but the man or force of men to whom the victory goes. It is not unusual in Latin to use an adjective with only an understood object noun (indeed, distinguishing between \\\"Nomina\\\" and \\\"Nomina Adiectiva\\\" at all occurred fairly late historically.)
\\\"Primus\\\" can be used to mean First not only in a strict mathematical sense, but also in an analogous hierarchical sense, in in the phrase \\\"Primus inter Pares\\\" (First among Equals). Thus, using it to mean \\\"first [in valor]\\\" or \\\"best\\\" is plausible.
Include the understood verb \\\"sit\\\" or \\\"fiat and you get a perfectly correct sentence: Primo [exercitui] sit Victoria. That is: May Victory be to the First [Army].
I hope I\\\'m not being offensive, and yes, I suspect that Sabaton does in fact carelessly lift their Latin from google translate! But that said, even a broken clock is right twice a day. ;)
Cheers! I remain always truly, your
-Classical Pedant
I think the confusion was that some one thought that the two words were respectively a noun, and an adjective describing said noun. In such case, yes, the lack of agreement in case and gender would be annoying and nonsensical.
Rather, I claim that the adjective is \\\"Primus\\\" in the Singular Masculine Dative, and describes not the Victory itself, but the man or force of men to whom the victory goes. It is not unusual in Latin to use an adjective with only an understood object noun (indeed, distinguishing between \\\"Nomina\\\" and \\\"Nomina Adiectiva\\\" at all occurred fairly late historically.)
\\\"Primus\\\" can be used to mean First not only in a strict mathematical sense, but also in an analogous hierarchical sense, in in the phrase \\\"Primus inter Pares\\\" (First among Equals). Thus, using it to mean \\\"first [in valor]\\\" or \\\"best\\\" is plausible.
Include the understood verb \\\"sit\\\" or \\\"fiat and you get a perfectly correct sentence: Primo [exercitui] sit Victoria. That is: May Victory be to the First [Army].
I hope I\\\'m not being offensive, and yes, I suspect that Sabaton does in fact carelessly lift their Latin from google translate! But that said, even a broken clock is right twice a day. ;)
Cheers! I remain always truly, your
-Classical Pedant
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\
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\\\"That\\\'s right--Bella is the Cullens\\\' \\\'\\\'pet\\\'\\\'.\\\"
That is \\\'\\\'made of awesome.\\\'\\\'
That is \\\'\\\'made of awesome.\\\'\\\'
