Remark History - TV Tropes

[007] Wyldchyld

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He went from genuinely bowing to the expertise of other scientists and engineers in the early part of the show to being able to instantly calculate any statistic asked of him no matter how unlikely it was for him to actually have had the training and background knowledge in the subject the statistics and calculations would pertain to.

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After the reveal, he was able to instantly calculate any statistic asked of him no matter how unlikely it was for him to actually have had the training and background knowledge in the subject the statistics and calculations would pertain to.

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Not only would this make him an instant expert in several scientific and engineering disciplines that are completely outside his area of medicine and biology, but it would also require him to have a more advanced understanding of how Dominion engineering works - and at that point in the plot, the knowledge the Federation possessed on the ship was next to nothing. They were only just learning how the thing was put together and how it flew. That wasn\'t an example of super-intelligence, it was an example of InstantExpert in multiple disciplines to allow for a super-intelligent calculation to take place. A super-intelligent character might be able to learn new disciplines much faster than the norm to be able to develop the knowledge to put the calculations together, but most of the time, such a thing was never explored. The idea that the statistics can\'t come out of nowhere just because a character is super-intelligent doesn\'t appear to have occurred to the writers at all.

I do think the fault lies with the writing staff. In an attempt to make him look super-intelligent, they tried to have him calculating odds in his head faster than even computers could do. However, they didn\'t seem to understand that no-one, no matter how intelligent, cannot compute numbers without understanding the scientific and engineering principles that lie behind the subject to produce the data that can then be calculated. The reason Bashir didn\'t seem much different to the other augments is because the writing staff was making exactly the same mistake with all the augments.

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Not only would this make him an instant expert in multiple scientific/engineering disciplines but it would also require him to have a more advanced understanding of how Dominion engineering works than the Federation actually had at that point in the storyline (even the ship they were flying was still mostly a mystery to them in terms of how it functioned). In an attempt to make him look super-intelligent, the writers tried to have him calculating odds in his head faster than even computers could do. However, they didn\\\'t seem to understand that no-one, no matter how intelligent, cannot compute numbers without understanding the scientific and engineering principles that lie behind the subject to produce the data that can then be calculated. The reason Bashir didn\\\'t seem much different to the other augments is because the writing staff was making exactly the same mistake with all the augments.

[006] Wyldchyld

29th Jun '12 at 01:50:43 PM

Changed line(s) 7 from:

n

I do think the fault lies with the writing staff. In an attempt to make him look super-intelligent, they tried to have him calculating odds in his head faster than even computers could do. However, they didn\'t seem to understand that no-one, no matter how intelligent, cannot compute numbers without understanding the scientific and engineering principles that lie behind the subject to produce the data that can then be calculated. The reason Bashir didn\'t seem much different to the other augments is because the writing staff was making exactly the same mistake with all the augments.

As a result, any character that was an \'augment\' in the show was an Instant Expert in any subject that required any miraculous statistic, calculation or probability exercise produced. It\'s a shame because, at the beginning of the show, they did at least try and keep character knowledge vaguely in line for the areas they were supposed to be either trained in or well-read in. Once augments were introduced, the writers tossed this out of the window and allowed the augments to have whatever knowledge was required for whatever numbers the plot needed them to produce. The writers didn\'t even seem to realise they were doing it which just leads to the impression they didn\'t really have a good idea how to portray a super-intelligent character.

to:

I do think the fault lies with the writing staff. In an attempt to make him look super-intelligent, they tried to have him calculating odds in his head faster than even computers could do. However, they didn\\\'t seem to understand that no-one, no matter how intelligent, cannot compute numbers without understanding the scientific and engineering principles that lie behind the subject to produce the data that can then be calculated. The reason Bashir didn\\\'t seem much different to the other augments is because the writing staff was making exactly the same mistake with all the augments.

[005] Wyldchyld

29th Jun '12 at 01:48:39 PM

Changed line(s) 7 from:

n

I do think the fault lies with the writing staff. In an attempt to make him look super-intelligent, they tried to have him calculating odds in his head faster than even computers could do. However, they didn\'t seem to understand that no-one, no matter how intelligent, cannot compute numbers without understanding the scientific and engineering principles that lie behind the subject to produce the data that can then be calculated. The reason Bashir didn\'t seem much different to the other auguments is because the writing staff was making exactly the same mistake with all the augments.

to:

I do think the fault lies with the writing staff. In an attempt to make him look super-intelligent, they tried to have him calculating odds in his head faster than even computers could do. However, they didn\\\'t seem to understand that no-one, no matter how intelligent, cannot compute numbers without understanding the scientific and engineering principles that lie behind the subject to produce the data that can then be calculated. The reason Bashir didn\\\'t seem much different to the other augments is because the writing staff was making exactly the same mistake with all the augments.

[004] Wyldchyld

29th Jun '12 at 01:47:14 PM

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n

As anyone who works in statistics can point out, that\'s impossible without an understanding of the subject matter that requires calculating the statistic for. For example, for Bashir to be able to instantly calculate how long it would take a broken Jem\'Hadar warship to return to Federation space isn\'t a simple matter of number-crunching, it would require knowledge of physics, astro-navigation, understanding their exact location in three-dimensional space as well as the exact point to which they want to return (for him to have a distance to focus on for his calculation), and so on. Not only would this make him an instant expert in several scientific and engineering disciplines that are completely outside his area of medicine and biology, but it would also require him to have a more advanced understanding of how Dominion engineering works - and at that point in the plot, the knowledge the Federation possessed on the ship was next to nothing. They were only just learning how the thing was put together and how it flew. That wasn\'t an example of super-intelligence, it was an example of InstantExpert in multiple disciplines to allow for a super-intelligent calculation to take place. A super-intelligent character might be able to learn new disciplines much faster than the norm to be able to develop the knowledge to put the calculations together, but most of the time, such a thing was never explored. The idea that the statistics can\'t come out of nowhere just because a character is super-intelligent doesn\'t appear to have occurred to the writers at all.

to:

As anyone who works in statistics can point out, that\\\'s impossible without an understanding of the subject matter that requires calculating the statistic for. For example, for Bashir to be able to instantly calculate how long it would take a broken Jem\\\'Hadar warship to return to Federation space isn\\\'t a simple matter of number-crunching, it would require knowledge of physics, astro-navigation, what speed he was going to base his calculation on, understanding their exact location in three-dimensional space as well as the exact point to which they want to return (for him to have a distance to focus on for his calculation), and so on.

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Not only would this make him an instant expert in several scientific and engineering disciplines that are completely outside his area of medicine and biology, but it would also require him to have a more advanced understanding of how Dominion engineering works - and at that point in the plot, the knowledge the Federation possessed on the ship was next to nothing. They were only just learning how the thing was put together and how it flew. That wasn\\\'t an example of super-intelligence, it was an example of InstantExpert in multiple disciplines to allow for a super-intelligent calculation to take place. A super-intelligent character might be able to learn new disciplines much faster than the norm to be able to develop the knowledge to put the calculations together, but most of the time, such a thing was never explored. The idea that the statistics can\\\'t come out of nowhere just because a character is super-intelligent doesn\\\'t appear to have occurred to the writers at all.

[003] Wyldchyld

29th Jun '12 at 01:45:42 PM

Changed line(s) 7 from:

n

As a result, any character that was an \'augment\' in the show was an Instant Expert in any subject that required any miraculous statistic, calculation or probability exercise produced. It\'s a shame because, at the beginning of the show, they did at least try and keep character knowledge vaguely realistic for the areas they were supposed to be either trained in or well-read in. Once augments were introduced, the writers tossed this out of the window and allowed the augments to have whatever knowledge was required for whatever numbers the plot needed them to produce. The writers didn\'t even seem to realise they were doing it which just leads to the impression they didn\'t really have a good idea how to portray a super-intelligent character.

to:

As a result, any character that was an \\\'augment\\\' in the show was an Instant Expert in any subject that required any miraculous statistic, calculation or probability exercise produced. It\\\'s a shame because, at the beginning of the show, they did at least try and keep character knowledge vaguely in line for the areas they were supposed to be either trained in or well-read in. Once augments were introduced, the writers tossed this out of the window and allowed the augments to have whatever knowledge was required for whatever numbers the plot needed them to produce. The writers didn\\\'t even seem to realise they were doing it which just leads to the impression they didn\\\'t really have a good idea how to portray a super-intelligent character.

[002] Wyldchyld

29th Jun '12 at 01:44:51 PM

Changed line(s) 5 from:

n

I do think the fault lies with the writing staff. In an attempt to make him look super-intelligent, they tried to have him calculating odds in his head faster than even computers could do. However, they didn\'t seem to understand that no-one, no matter how intelligent, cannot compute numbers without understanding the scientific and engineering principles that lie behind the subject to produce the data that can then be calculated. The reason Bashir didn\'t seem much different to the other auguments is because the writing staff was making exactly the same mistake all the augments.

to:

I do think the fault lies with the writing staff. In an attempt to make him look super-intelligent, they tried to have him calculating odds in his head faster than even computers could do. However, they didn\\\'t seem to understand that no-one, no matter how intelligent, cannot compute numbers without understanding the scientific and engineering principles that lie behind the subject to produce the data that can then be calculated. The reason Bashir didn\\\'t seem much different to the other auguments is because the writing staff was making exactly the same mistake with all the augments.

[001] Wyldchyld

29th Jun '12 at 01:44:40 PM

Changed line(s) 3 from:

n

As anyone who works in statistics can point out, that\'s impossible without an understanding of the subject matter that requires calculating the statistic for. For example, for Bashir to be able to instantly calculate how long it would take a broken Jem\'Hadar warship to return to Federation space isn\'t a simple matter of number-crunching, it would require knowledge of physics, astro-navigation, understanding their exact location in three-dimensional space as well as the exact point to which they want to return (for him to have a distance to focus on for his calculation), and so on. Not only would this make him an instant expert in several scientific and engineering disciplines that are completely outside his area of medicine and biology, but it would also require him to have a more advanced understanding of how Dominion engineering works - and at that point in the plot, the knowledge the Federation possessed on the ship was next to nothing. They were only just learning how the thing was put together and how it flew. That wasn\'t an example of super-intelligence, it was an example of InstantExpert in multiple disciplines to allow for a super-intelligent calculation to take place.

to:

As anyone who works in statistics can point out, that\\\'s impossible without an understanding of the subject matter that requires calculating the statistic for. For example, for Bashir to be able to instantly calculate how long it would take a broken Jem\\\'Hadar warship to return to Federation space isn\\\'t a simple matter of number-crunching, it would require knowledge of physics, astro-navigation, understanding their exact location in three-dimensional space as well as the exact point to which they want to return (for him to have a distance to focus on for his calculation), and so on. Not only would this make him an instant expert in several scientific and engineering disciplines that are completely outside his area of medicine and biology, but it would also require him to have a more advanced understanding of how Dominion engineering works - and at that point in the plot, the knowledge the Federation possessed on the ship was next to nothing. They were only just learning how the thing was put together and how it flew. That wasn\\\'t an example of super-intelligence, it was an example of InstantExpert in multiple disciplines to allow for a super-intelligent calculation to take place. A super-intelligent character might be able to learn new disciplines much faster than the norm to be able to develop the knowledge to put the calculations together, but most of the time, such a thing was never explored. The idea that the statistics can\\\'t come out of nowhere just because a character is super-intelligent doesn\\\'t appear to have occurred to the writers at all.

Changed line(s) 5 from:

n

It\'s a fault that lay with the writing staff. In an attempt to make him look super-intelligent, they tried to have him calculating odds in his head faster than even computers could do. However, they didn\'t seem to understand that no-one, no matter how intelligent, cannot compute numbers without understanding the scientific and engineering principles that lie behind the subject to produce the data that can then be calculated. The reason Bashir didn\'t seem much different to the other auguments is because the writing staff was making exactly the same mistake all the augments.

to:

I do think the fault lies with the writing staff. In an attempt to make him look super-intelligent, they tried to have him calculating odds in his head faster than even computers could do. However, they didn\\\'t seem to understand that no-one, no matter how intelligent, cannot compute numbers without understanding the scientific and engineering principles that lie behind the subject to produce the data that can then be calculated. The reason Bashir didn\\\'t seem much different to the other auguments is because the writing staff was making exactly the same mistake all the augments.

Discussion History Main / InstantExpert