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\\\"[The Lower Depths are] a place even further removed from the Supernal World [than the Fallen World].
Creatures from the Lower Depths might occasionally find their way to the Fallen World, where they probably need a lot of Mana to survive — Mana best taken from Awakened sources.\\\"
--From Mage: The Awakening, p. 61
\\\"From the Lower Depths [the Intruders] came, some walking on two legs like humans, some scuttling along the ground like insects and some flying through the air in perverse mockery of the great Dragons of Old. They were creatures of hunger, of cold and lonely yearning, for to call them “evil” would be to grant them too much humanity. They did not understand humankind, and they did not intend to try. They wanted only warmth, and the souls of humanity were the fuel for their fires.\\\"
--From Tome of the Watchtowers, p. 76
\\\"Whatever form [the Tutor] had in its native realm, the increased pressure of reality in the Fallen World renders it immobile and indistinct. It is half-materialized, half in Twilight, unable to communicate and difficult to look upon for longer than snatched glances. It is a thaumivore, but it has another appetite as well: it eats the human sense of self.\\\"
--From Seers of the Throne, p. 217
\\\"Dead, But Never Born – Chthonians - those of at least an effective spirit Rank of 4 — allegedly know at least a little about the doorways to the Lower Depths situated in the deepest parts of the Underworld.\\\"
--From Summoners, p. 46
\\\"[When summoning demons from Pandemonium] Other Warlocks look for information on “true” Demons, the inhabitants of Lower Depths that, unlike the Demons of the Kingdom of Nightmares, feed on human vice and depravity.\\\"
[This is a misue of \\\"Lower Depths,\\\" and should have said \\\"Inferno\\\" based on the \\\"vice and depravity\\\" reference.]
--Summoners, p. 91
Official Clarification by David Brookshaw:
\\\"The Lower Depths, as I think of them, are as far from the Fallen World as the Fallen World is from the Supernal. They\\\'re not Abyssal - they\\\'re *empty*. A Thin Place, where strange things move through their grey void of a world taking in what few scraps of Mana they need to survive.
The Tutor is undefined (to the point where you can\\\'t really percieve it) because it\\\'s not meant to be in this reality. It can\\\'t move by itself, or free itself from its half-materialised state because our world is just too *real* for it. It\\\'s functionally immortal because its homeworld (if its home can be said to be a world at all) is so far from Arcadia that Time doesn\\\'t exist.
Imagine a world where the Ten Arcana don\\\'t exist - no Forces, no Death, no Spirit, no Life and so on - or are present in only tiny amounts due to the Supernal being so very far away. If it\\\'s hard to conceptualise - good. If a mage went there, they\\\'d be like a Supernal being coming to the Fallen. That\\\'s what I was shooting for.
YMMV.\\\"
When Imperial Mysteries briefly mentioned the Lower Depths and the Infero, it mentioned that they might be the same place, or they might not. Unfortunately, the Lower Depths was described as working like the Inferno, further muddying the waters.
This is an excellent example of writers contradicting themselves because they forgot what was written before, which began in Summoners and was continued in Imperial Mysteries. Hell and the Lower Depths cannot be the same place, because they are originally described with entirely different Modus Operandi until the writers confused them. Lower Depths entities are characterized by hunger: the Tutor consumes the sense of self, the Decay consumes the immediate area it manifests within, and the Intruders and the Hellminth consume everything in their path until the world is left a barren wasteland. Demons are characterized by feeding solely on vice and depravity; in fact, they are described as \\\"loving\\\" the world and fervent to prevent its destruction. Furthermore, demons only came into existence with mankind, whereas creatures like the Decay and the Hellminth are independent of humans and claim to predate them (which is supported by their appearance in Atlantean myth).
In Warhammer 40,000 terms it\\\'s the same difference between Chaos Demons and Tyranids/Necrons. The sheer hubris required to believe they are equivalent when they\\\'re not even remotely similar is just... argh!
Creatures from the Lower Depths might occasionally find their way to the Fallen World, where they probably need a lot of Mana to survive — Mana best taken from Awakened sources.\\\"
--From Mage: The Awakening, p. 61
\\\"From the Lower Depths [the Intruders] came, some walking on two legs like humans, some scuttling along the ground like insects and some flying through the air in perverse mockery of the great Dragons of Old. They were creatures of hunger, of cold and lonely yearning, for to call them “evil” would be to grant them too much humanity. They did not understand humankind, and they did not intend to try. They wanted only warmth, and the souls of humanity were the fuel for their fires.\\\"
--From Tome of the Watchtowers, p. 76
\\\"Whatever form [the Tutor] had in its native realm, the increased pressure of reality in the Fallen World renders it immobile and indistinct. It is half-materialized, half in Twilight, unable to communicate and difficult to look upon for longer than snatched glances. It is a thaumivore, but it has another appetite as well: it eats the human sense of self.\\\"
--From Seers of the Throne, p. 217
\\\"Dead, But Never Born – Chthonians - those of at least an effective spirit Rank of 4 — allegedly know at least a little about the doorways to the Lower Depths situated in the deepest parts of the Underworld.\\\"
--From Summoners, p. 46
\\\"[When summoning demons from Pandemonium] Other Warlocks look for information on “true” Demons, the inhabitants of Lower Depths that, unlike the Demons of the Kingdom of Nightmares, feed on human vice and depravity.\\\"
[This is a misue of \\\"Lower Depths,\\\" and should have said \\\"Inferno\\\" based on the \\\"vice and depravity\\\" reference.]
--Summoners, p. 91
Official Clarification by David Brookshaw:
\\\"The Lower Depths, as I think of them, are as far from the Fallen World as the Fallen World is from the Supernal. They\\\'re not Abyssal - they\\\'re *empty*. A Thin Place, where strange things move through their grey void of a world taking in what few scraps of Mana they need to survive.
The Tutor is undefined (to the point where you can\\\'t really percieve it) because it\\\'s not meant to be in this reality. It can\\\'t move by itself, or free itself from its half-materialised state because our world is just too *real* for it. It\\\'s functionally immortal because its homeworld (if its home can be said to be a world at all) is so far from Arcadia that Time doesn\\\'t exist.
Imagine a world where the Ten Arcana don\\\'t exist - no Forces, no Death, no Spirit, no Life and so on - or are present in only tiny amounts due to the Supernal being so very far away. If it\\\'s hard to conceptualise - good. If a mage went there, they\\\'d be like a Supernal being coming to the Fallen. That\\\'s what I was shooting for.
YMMV.\\\"
When Imperial Mysteries briefly mentioned the Lower Depths and the Infero, it mentioned that they might be the same place, or they might not. Unfortunately, the Lower Depths was described as working like the Inferno, further muddying the waters.
This is an excellent example of writers contradicting themselves because they forgot what was written before, which began in Summoners and was continued in Imperial Mysteries. Hell and the Lower Depths cannot be the same place, because they are originally described with entirely different Modus Operandi until the writers confused them. Lower Depths entities are characterized by hunger: the Tutor consumes the sense of self, the Decay consumes the immediate area it manifests within, and the Intruders and the Hellminth consume everything in their path until the world is left a barren wasteland. Demons are characterized by feeding solely on vice and depravity; in fact, they are described as \\\"loving\\\" the world and fervent to prevent its destruction. Furthermore, demons only came into existence with mankind, whereas creatures like the Decay and the Hellminth are independent of humans and claim to predate them (which is supported by their appearance in Atlantean myth).
In Warhammer 40,000 terms it\\\'s the same difference between Chaos Demons and Tyranids/Necrons. The sheer hubris required to believe they are equivalent when they\\\'re not even remotely similar is just... argh!
