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JoieDeCombat
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\\\"Rinoa is as much a Lancer to Squall as Aerith is to Cloud, Garnet to Zidane, or even Princess Leia to Luke. She isnt around enough, led alone with Squall himself.\\\"
Incorrect. Aerith, Garnet, and Leia don\\\'t contrast Cloud, Zidane, and Luke the way Rinoa does Squall. She is an optimist where he is a cynic. She lives in the moment where he obsesses over the past and worries about the future. She\\\'s an idealist where he is a mercenary. She repeatedly tries to take action on her own - another hallmark of TheLancer, and one of the reasons that your argument that \\\"she\\\'s not around enough\\\" doesn\\\'t convince me, since that\\\'s one of the things TheLancer does.
I\\\'m also not sure how you figure Zell \\\"tries\\\" to be social any more than any other character; he is also \\\"just being himself,\\\" the same as, for example, Selphie.
\\\"Having emotional connections isn\\\'t really a role.\\\" Yes, it is. That\\\'s what TheChick is all \\\'\\\'about\\\'\\\'. In any case, Irvine\\\'s role on the team is never defined as \\\"firepower,\\\" it\\\'s defined first as \\\"specialist\\\" at the beginning when he\\\'s not properly integrated into the team, and later, when he is really a member of the team in fact, it\\\'s as the guy who goes out of his way to pull the others together and cheer them up (the concert at FH) or give them focus (the basketball court at Trabia).
I must point out that everything you\\\'ve brought up as Quistis using her intelligence to benefit the team are tutorials which are completed before there \\\'\\\'is\\\'\\\' a team at all; not even Zell has joined at that point (and there\\\'s no indication that he was ever in Quistis\\\' class). Once there\\\'s actually a team form and Quistis has joined it, I can only think of one instance where it could even be argued that Quistis\\\' intelligence served the team, and that was finding the secret passage out of Caraway\\\'s house, correcting an error in judgment that she made in the first place.
Your arguments for Selphie don\\\'t hold up either. Jumping off a cliff doesn\\\'t encourage or inspire anything; Zell thinks she\\\'s nuts for doing it. There\\\'s no response to her attempt to reassure the rest of the missile base team that Squall trusts them. \\\'\\\'Irvine,\\\'\\\' not Selphie, is the one who decides to throw a concert at FH and cheer everyone up, and who goes to the effort to make it happen and to put Rinoa in charge of making sure Squall has a good time. And getting the Ragnarok working only happens after \\\'\\\'Quistis\\\'\\\' has read Squall the riot act and inspired him to decide to go back to the Sorceress Memorial.
The reason I deleted the trope is not just because I disagree with you. It\\\'s because I\\\'ve seen the roles argued over before, and I have no doubt that whatever decision we could possibly reach would be argued over again later the next time someone else came along and saw it differently. If you can ask ten tropers how the roles sort out and get five different arrangements, that\\\'s a sign that the trope doesn\\\'t apply and shouldn\\\'t be shoehorned on.
At the very least, I\\\'d like to hear input from other tropers on whether they think the trope actually fits without being forced, and if so, how they see the roles sorting out.
Incorrect. Aerith, Garnet, and Leia don\\\'t contrast Cloud, Zidane, and Luke the way Rinoa does Squall. She is an optimist where he is a cynic. She lives in the moment where he obsesses over the past and worries about the future. She\\\'s an idealist where he is a mercenary. She repeatedly tries to take action on her own - another hallmark of TheLancer, and one of the reasons that your argument that \\\"she\\\'s not around enough\\\" doesn\\\'t convince me, since that\\\'s one of the things TheLancer does.
I\\\'m also not sure how you figure Zell \\\"tries\\\" to be social any more than any other character; he is also \\\"just being himself,\\\" the same as, for example, Selphie.
\\\"Having emotional connections isn\\\'t really a role.\\\" Yes, it is. That\\\'s what TheChick is all \\\'\\\'about\\\'\\\'. In any case, Irvine\\\'s role on the team is never defined as \\\"firepower,\\\" it\\\'s defined first as \\\"specialist\\\" at the beginning when he\\\'s not properly integrated into the team, and later, when he is really a member of the team in fact, it\\\'s as the guy who goes out of his way to pull the others together and cheer them up (the concert at FH) or give them focus (the basketball court at Trabia).
I must point out that everything you\\\'ve brought up as Quistis using her intelligence to benefit the team are tutorials which are completed before there \\\'\\\'is\\\'\\\' a team at all; not even Zell has joined at that point (and there\\\'s no indication that he was ever in Quistis\\\' class). Once there\\\'s actually a team form and Quistis has joined it, I can only think of one instance where it could even be argued that Quistis\\\' intelligence served the team, and that was finding the secret passage out of Caraway\\\'s house, correcting an error in judgment that she made in the first place.
Your arguments for Selphie don\\\'t hold up either. Jumping off a cliff doesn\\\'t encourage or inspire anything; Zell thinks she\\\'s nuts for doing it. There\\\'s no response to her attempt to reassure the rest of the missile base team that Squall trusts them. \\\'\\\'Irvine,\\\'\\\' not Selphie, is the one who decides to throw a concert at FH and cheer everyone up, and who goes to the effort to make it happen and to put Rinoa in charge of making sure Squall has a good time. And getting the Ragnarok working only happens after \\\'\\\'Quistis\\\'\\\' has read Squall the riot act and inspired him to decide to go back to the Sorceress Memorial.
The reason I deleted the trope is not just because I disagree with you. It\\\'s because I\\\'ve seen the roles argued over before, and I have no doubt that whatever decision we could possibly reach would be argued over again later the next time someone else came along and saw it differently. If you can ask ten tropers how the roles sort out and get five different arrangements, that\\\'s a sign that the trope doesn\\\'t apply and shouldn\\\'t be shoehorned on.
At the very least, I\\\'d like to hear input from other tropers on whether they think the trope actually fits without being forced, and if so, how they see the roles sorting out.
