[007]
Xzenu
Current Version
Changed line(s) 5 from:
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So, your latest strategy is to redefine \
to:
So, your latest strategy is to redefine \\\"experience\\\" to \\\"baggage\\\". Meh, that\\\'s cheap.
1. The only real difference here is that a gay person \\\'\\\'who isn\\\'t single\\\'\\\' is automatically outed by using personal pronouns or showing a photo where the partner\\\'s gender is discernible. This difference isn\\\'t as big as you may think. A few examples follow below, using the word in a reasonably inclusive way here - not your creepy attempt to tag YET another word as exclusive for your hetero-homo false dichotomy.
* A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
* B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
* C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
* D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
Again, don\\\'t take this personally. I strongly dislike the discourse you are using, but it\\\'s not like I think you invented it or anything. I \\\'\\\'do\\\'\\\' think you ought to move on to a wider perspective on sexuality and identity politics, but that\\\'s just my two cents. Take it or leave it. :-)
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. (I know the same thing goes for the previous parade, Gothenburg a few months earlier, although I didn\\\'t walk in the actual parade that time because I was busy directing traffic away from the parade\\\'s path.) I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"Homosexuality/LGBT is the only one that counts, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
1. The only real difference here is that a gay person \\\'\\\'who isn\\\'t single\\\'\\\' is automatically outed by using personal pronouns or showing a photo where the partner\\\'s gender is discernible. This difference isn\\\'t as big as you may think. A few examples follow below, using the word in a reasonably inclusive way here - not your creepy attempt to tag YET another word as exclusive for your hetero-homo false dichotomy.
* A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
* B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
* C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
* D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
Again, don\\\'t take this personally. I strongly dislike the discourse you are using, but it\\\'s not like I think you invented it or anything. I \\\'\\\'do\\\'\\\' think you ought to move on to a wider perspective on sexuality and identity politics, but that\\\'s just my two cents. Take it or leave it. :-)
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. (I know the same thing goes for the previous parade, Gothenburg a few months earlier, although I didn\\\'t walk in the actual parade that time because I was busy directing traffic away from the parade\\\'s path.) I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"Homosexuality/LGBT is the only one that counts, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
So, your latest strategy is to redefine \
to:
So, your latest strategy is to redefine \\\"experience\\\" to \\\"baggage\\\". Meh, that\\\'s cheap.
1. The only real difference here is that a gay person \\\'\\\'who isn\\\'t single\\\'\\\' is automatically outed by using personal pronouns or showing a photo where the partner\\\'s gender is discernible. This difference isn\\\'t as big as you may think. A few examples follow below, using the word in a reasonably inclusive way here - not your creepy attempt to tag YET another word as exclusive for your hetero-homo false dichotomy.
* A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
* B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
* C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
* D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. (I know the same thing goes for the previous parade, Gothenburg a few months earlier, although I didn\\\'t walk in the actual parade that time because I was busy directing traffic away from the parade\\\'s path.) I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"Homosexuality/LGBT is the only one that counts, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
1. The only real difference here is that a gay person \\\'\\\'who isn\\\'t single\\\'\\\' is automatically outed by using personal pronouns or showing a photo where the partner\\\'s gender is discernible. This difference isn\\\'t as big as you may think. A few examples follow below, using the word in a reasonably inclusive way here - not your creepy attempt to tag YET another word as exclusive for your hetero-homo false dichotomy.
* A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
* B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
* C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
* D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. (I know the same thing goes for the previous parade, Gothenburg a few months earlier, although I didn\\\'t walk in the actual parade that time because I was busy directing traffic away from the parade\\\'s path.) I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"Homosexuality/LGBT is the only one that counts, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
So, your latest strategy is to redefine \
to:
So, your latest strategy is to redefine \\\"experience\\\" to \\\"baggage\\\". Meh, that\\\'s cheap.
1. The only real difference here is that a gay person \\\'\\\'who isn\\\'t single\\\'\\\' is automatically outed by using personal pronouns or showing a photo where the partner\\\'s gender is discernible. This difference isn\\\'t as big as you may think. A few examples follow below, using the word in a reasonably inclusive way here - not your creepy attempt to tag YET another word as exclusive for your hetero-homo false dichotomy.
* A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
* B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
* C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
* D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. (I know the same thing goes for the previous parade, Gothenburg a few months earlier, although I didn\\\'t walk in the actual parade that time because I was busy directing traffic away from the parade\\\'s path.) I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"Homosexuality is the only one that counts, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
1. The only real difference here is that a gay person \\\'\\\'who isn\\\'t single\\\'\\\' is automatically outed by using personal pronouns or showing a photo where the partner\\\'s gender is discernible. This difference isn\\\'t as big as you may think. A few examples follow below, using the word in a reasonably inclusive way here - not your creepy attempt to tag YET another word as exclusive for your hetero-homo false dichotomy.
* A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
* B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
* C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
* D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. (I know the same thing goes for the previous parade, Gothenburg a few months earlier, although I didn\\\'t walk in the actual parade that time because I was busy directing traffic away from the parade\\\'s path.) I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"Homosexuality is the only one that counts, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
So, your latest strategy is to redefine \
to:
So, your latest strategy is to redefine \\\"experience\\\" to \\\"baggage\\\". Meh, that\\\'s cheap.
1. The only real difference here is that a gay person \\\'\\\'who isn\\\'t single\\\'\\\' is automatically outed by using personal pronouns or showing a photo where the partner\\\'s gender is discernible. This difference isn\\\'t as big as you may think. A few examples follow below, using the word in a reasonably inclusive way here - not your creepy attempt to tag YET another word as exclusive for your hetero-homo false dichotomy.
* A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
* B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
* C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
* D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. (I know the same thing goes for the previous parade, Gothenburg a few months earlier, although I didn\\\'t walk in the actual parade that time because I was busy directing traffic away from the parade\\\'s path.) I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"We mainstream gays are the only ones who count, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
1. The only real difference here is that a gay person \\\'\\\'who isn\\\'t single\\\'\\\' is automatically outed by using personal pronouns or showing a photo where the partner\\\'s gender is discernible. This difference isn\\\'t as big as you may think. A few examples follow below, using the word in a reasonably inclusive way here - not your creepy attempt to tag YET another word as exclusive for your hetero-homo false dichotomy.
* A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
* B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
* C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
* D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. (I know the same thing goes for the previous parade, Gothenburg a few months earlier, although I didn\\\'t walk in the actual parade that time because I was busy directing traffic away from the parade\\\'s path.) I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"We mainstream gays are the only ones who count, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
So, your latest strategy is to redefine \
to:
So, your latest strategy is to redefine \\\"experience\\\" to \\\"baggage\\\". Meh, that\\\'s cheap.
1. The only real difference here is that a gay person \\\'\\\'who isn\\\'t single\\\'\\\' is automatically outed by using personal pronouns or showing a photo where the partner\\\'s gender is discernible. This difference isn\\\'t as big as you may think. A few examples follow below, using the word in a reasonably inclusive way here - not your creepy attempt to tag YET another word as exclusive for your hetero-homo false dichotomy.
* A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
* B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
* C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
* D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"We mainstream gays are the only ones who count, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
1. The only real difference here is that a gay person \\\'\\\'who isn\\\'t single\\\'\\\' is automatically outed by using personal pronouns or showing a photo where the partner\\\'s gender is discernible. This difference isn\\\'t as big as you may think. A few examples follow below, using the word in a reasonably inclusive way here - not your creepy attempt to tag YET another word as exclusive for your hetero-homo false dichotomy.
* A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
* B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
* C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
* D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"We mainstream gays are the only ones who count, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
So, your latest strategy is to redefine \
to:
So, your latest strategy is to redefine \\\"experience\\\" to \\\"baggage\\\". Meh, that\\\'s cheap.
1. The only real difference here is that a gay person \\\'\\\'who isn\\\'t single\\\'\\\' is automatically outed by using personal pronouns or showing a photo where the partner\\\'s gender is discernible. This difference isn\\\'t as big as you may think. A few examples follow below, using the word in a reasonably inclusive way here - not your creepy attempt to tag YET another word as exclusive for your hetero-homo false dichotomy.
A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"We mainstream gays are the only ones who count, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
1. The only real difference here is that a gay person \\\'\\\'who isn\\\'t single\\\'\\\' is automatically outed by using personal pronouns or showing a photo where the partner\\\'s gender is discernible. This difference isn\\\'t as big as you may think. A few examples follow below, using the word in a reasonably inclusive way here - not your creepy attempt to tag YET another word as exclusive for your hetero-homo false dichotomy.
A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"We mainstream gays are the only ones who count, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
Changed line(s) 4 from:
to:
So, your latest strategy is to redefine \\\"experience\\\" to \\\"baggage\\\". Cheap.
Changed line(s) 6 from:
n
A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \
to:
A. Regardless of your sexuality, when you look for a partner, you want to find someone compatible. That mean you need to know the relevant parameters. Far from all people have gender as even one of these parameters, and hardly anyone have it as the only parameter. The mindset of \\\"It\\\'s your duty to stay in the closet,a nd if you don\\\'t then it\\\'s your own darn fault if you get harassed\\\" is thus very oppressive.
B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"We mainstream gays are the only ones who count, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
B. One of my female friends left her jerkass ex husband for another woman. The ex found did some anonymous cyber-stalking and found out that she\\\'s having a dominance relationship with her new girlfriend. He proceed to out them to friends, coworkers, family, school and authorities, and he tries to convince social services to give him full custody of the children (preferably without even giving her visitation right). The creep didn\\\'t even dislike BDSM, [[StrawHypocrite it\\\'s simply that he found it a convenient weapon to use against her]]. Luckily, social services took her side. She did lose a few friends, but she didn\\\'t get fired.
C. A major anti-discrimination organization explained that the above is okay. It\\\'s legal to out someone as being into BDSM (or pretending that someone is into BDSM) in order to get them fired. It\\\'s even legal to fire someone for being into BDSM, even though the personal life has nothing to do with work and the person didn\\\'t even volunteer the information. And so on. Because the laws against discrimination is strictly limited to homosexuality (and heterosexuality, lol).
D. One legal case I followed... A woman visit a man for a BDSM date over a weekend. During or after this weekend, things go out of hand. Eventually, a friend of a friend go to the police about the whole thing. In the first legal round, the man and the woman both claim that it was consensual, but the ADA goes on about how the victim is a stupid bitch who shouldn\\\'t be taken seriously. Sure it was consensual, but the guy should be convicted anyway, because BDSM shouldn\\\'t be legal. (Well, the woman wasn\\\'t there. The defense read a letter from her, where she took the defendant\\\'s side. The prosecution did not object.) The verdict was \\\"not guilty\\\", based on consent. The ADA appealed to a higher court, they had second round last week. This time I didn\\\'t attend the court. But I was told the woman has now changed her story and say that it was rape. However, the ADA still insist that the court should rule that consent is not possible.
2. Like I said repeatedly, this is not about you. I\\\'m talking about social structures here.
3. The desexualization argument you are making now is very different from your original point - and irrelevant for the argument you was making then. Also, like I have pointed out repeatedly, it\\\'s creepy and bigoted to claim that a minority can by definition not be included unless people are doing \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade. Most importantly, it\\\'s simply wrong. The last pride parade I was in (Stockholm, like a month ago) had several activist groups that are pro-BDSM/Fetishism and also several social clubs for BDSM/fetischism. I know the activist groups didn\\\'t do any \\\"explicit acts\\\" in the parade, and I don\\\'t think the clubs did either. You know what? Their participation was still valid.
Also, the description should of course bring up diversity and variation. You are not the center of the universe, and neither is your hometown. Like I have pointed out repeatedly, different countries and cities do this differently. Judging from your description, your cities are now where my cities was 10 years ago or so, with gay superiority activists successfully making the same arguments that you make now and far worse. We moved past that stage many years ago, I honestly haven\\\'t heard your kind of discourse in many years.
Your city may or may not draw the line at LGBT, but the line is drawn differently in different countries and cities. Claiming as some kind of universal fact that the line is drawn at LGBT is sinply wrong, in both directions: Some places draw the line at homosexuality, period, while others include fetishism and sadomasochism. And with \\\"include\\\", I mean as part of what the pride movement is fighting for, NOT the creepy \\\"We mainstream gays are the only ones who count, but we are so open-minded that we will let you tag along and show the world that YOU support US\\\".
