Discussion History Main / AllWomenArePrudes

Firstly, this is not about monogamy, it\\\'s about not having sex before marriage / finding your \\\"one true love.\\\" There\\\'s no comment on monogamy (i.e. being in a sexual relationship with only one person) in that line at all.

Secondly, the language does not strike me personally as judgemental. This section of the article simply explains the reasons for why women \\\"wouldn\\\'t want sex,\\\" as portrayed in the media. \\\"Older than dirt\\\" is not a way of judging an idea, but simply points out that it\\\'s old by referring to another trope (which is neither good nor bad. \\\"Older than dirt\\\" is often used in a fairly positive way, to refer to \\\"classic\\\" ideas that have a long history). Saying the idea is waning also isn\\\'t a judgement of it. It \\\'\\\'is\\\'\\\' waning. Again, this neither means that it\\\'s a good idea, nor that it\\\'s a bad one. Good ideas lose popularity sometimes, and bad ideas come to the fore; and the reverse also happens. It is a fact that abstinence until marriage is not nearly as huge an idea in society today as it once was. That\\\'s not a judgement of people who choose to be abstinent.

Thirdly, this line is meant to point out that there was a standard for a \\\'\\\'woman\\\'\\\' to only lose virginity to the \\\'\\\'man\\\'\\\' she loves. This trope is \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' gender-neutral. I think we can all agree that having [[DoubleStandard separate standards]] for men and women as far as promiscuity and abstinence goes is a bit unfair. I still don\\\'t think the line is judgemental, but in your comment you make it sound like it\\\'s a gender neutral statement about the relative values of promiscuity and abstinence. Bringing up \\\"AManIsNotAVirgin\\\" also highlights this. That trope doesn\\\'t say \\\"virginity is bad,\\\" it says \\\"virginity \\\'\\\'\\\'for a man\\\'\\\'\\\' is bad.\\\"

And incidentally, that trope doesn\\\'t actually portray the idea that men shouldn\\\'t be virgins as a good thing. It simply states that this is an idea often found in the media. The fact that a trope exists does not mean that the Troper community endorses its application to RealLife (in fact, that\\\'s \\\'\\\'rarely\\\'\\\' the case) -- only that it is an idea often found in the media.

So, in short, I disagree with the call to edit the line.

Firstly, this is not about monogamy, it\\\'s about not having sex before marriage / finding your \\\"one true love.\\\" There\\\'s no comment on monogamy (i.e. being in a sexual relationship with only one person) in that line at all.

Secondly, the language does not strike me personally as judgemental. This section of the article simply explains the reasons for why women \\\"wouldn\\\'t want sex,\\\" as portrayed in the media. \\\"Older than dirt\\\" is not a way of judging an idea, but simply points out that it\\\'s old by referring to another trope (which is neither good nor bad. \\\"Older than dirt\\\" is often used in a fairly positive way, to refer to \\\"classic\\\" ideas that have a long history). Saying the idea is waning also isn\\\'t a judgement of it. It \\\'\\\'is\\\'\\\' waning. Again, this neither means that it\\\'s a good idea, nor that it\\\'s a bad one. Good ideas lose popularity sometimes, and bad ideas come to the fore; and the reverse also happens. It is a fact that abstinence until marriage is not nearly as huge an idea in society today as it once was. That\\\'s not a judgement of people who choose to be abstinent.

Thirdly, this line is meant to point out that there was a standard for a \\\'\\\'woman\\\'\\\' to only lose virginity to the \\\'\\\'man\\\'\\\' she loves. This trope is \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' gender-neutral. I think we can all agree that having [[DoubleStandard separate standards]] for men and women as far as promiscuity and abstinence goes is a bit unfair. I still don\\\'t think the line is judgemental, but in your reply you make it sound like it\\\'s a gender neutral statement about the relative values of promiscuity and abstinence. Bringing up \\\"AManIsNotAVirgin\\\" also highlights this. That trope doesn\\\'t say \\\"virginity is bad,\\\" it says \\\"virginity \\\'\\\'\\\'for a man\\\'\\\'\\\' is bad.\\\"

And incidentally, that trope doesn\\\'t actually portray the idea that men shouldn\\\'t be virgins as a good thing. It simply states that this is an idea often found in the media. The fact that a trope exists does not mean that the Troper community endorses its application to RealLife (in fact, that\\\'s \\\'\\\'rarely\\\'\\\' the case) -- only that it is an idea often found in the media.

So, in short, I disagree with the call to edit the line.

Firstly, this is not about monogamy, it\\\'s about not having sex before marriage / finding your \\\"one true love.\\\" There\\\'s no comment on monogamy (i.e. being in a sexual relationship with only one person) in that line at all.

Secondly, the language does not strike me personally as judgemental. This section of the article simply explains the reasons for why women \\\"wouldn\\\'t want sex,\\\" as portrayed in the media. \\\"Older than dirt\\\" is not a way of judging an idea, but simply points out that it\\\'s old by referring to another trope (which is neither good nor bad. \\\"Older than dirt\\\" is often used in a fairly positive way, to refer to \\\"classic\\\" ideas that have a long history). Saying the idea is waning also isn\\\'t a judgement of it. It \\\'\\\'is\\\'\\\' waning. Again, this neither means that it\\\'s a good idea, nor that it\\\'s a bad one. Good ideas lose popularity sometimes, and bad ideas come to the fore; and the reverse also happens. It is a fact that abstinence until marriage is not nearly as huge an idea in society today as it once was. That\\\'s not a judgement of people who choose to be abstinent.

Thirdly, this line is meant to point out that there was a standard for a \\\'\\\'woman\\\'\\\' to only lose virginity to the \\\'\\\'man\\\'\\\' she loves. This trope is \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' gender-neutral. I think we can all agree that having [[DoubleStandard separate standards]] for men and women as far as promiscuity and abstinence goes is a bit unfair. I still don\\\'t think the line is judgemental, but in your reply you make it sound like it\\\'s a gender neutral statement about the relative values of promiscuity and abstinence. Bringing up \\\"AManIsNotAVirgin\\\" also highlights this. That trope doesn\\\'t say \\\"virginity is bad,\\\" it says \\\"virginity \\\'\\\'\\\'for a man\\\'\\\'\\\' is bad.\\\"

So, in short, I disagree with the call to edit the line.

Firstly, this is not about monogamy, it\\\'s about not having sex before marriage / finding your \\\"one true love.\\\" There\\\'s no comment on monogamy (i.e. being in a sexual relationship with only one person) in that line at all.

Secondly, the language does not strike me personally as judgemental. This section of the article simply explains the reasons for why women \\\"wouldn\\\'t want sex,\\\" as portrayed in the media. \\\"Older than dirt\\\" is not a way of judging an idea, but simply points out that it\\\'s old by referring to another trope (which is neither good nor bad. \\\"Older than dirt\\\" is often used in a fairly positive way, to refer to \\\"classic\\\" ideas that have a long history). Saying the idea is waning also isn\\\'t a judgement of it. It \\\'\\\'is\\\'\\\' waning. Again, this neither means that it\\\'s a good idea, nor that it\\\'s a bad one. Good ideas lose popularity sometimes, and bad ideas come to the fore; and the reverse also happens. It is a fact that abstinence until marriage is not nearly as huge an idea in society today as it once was. That\\\'s not a judgement of people who choose to be abstinent.

Thirdly, this line is meant to point out that there was a standard for a \\\'\\\'woman\\\'\\\' to only lose virginity to the \\\'\\\'man\\\'\\\' they love. This trope is \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' gender-neutral. I think we can all agree that having [[DoubleStandard separate standards]] for men and women as far as promiscuity and abstinence goes is a bit unfair. I still don\\\'t think the line is judgemental, but in your reply you make it sound like it\\\'s a gender neutral statement about the relative values of promiscuity and abstinence. Bringing up \\\"AManIsNotAVirgin\\\" also highlights this. That trope doesn\\\'t say \\\"virginity is bad,\\\" it says \\\"virginity \\\'\\\'\\\'for a man\\\'\\\'\\\' is bad.\\\"

So, in short, I disagree with the call to edit the line.

Firstly, this is not about monogamy, it\\\'s about not having sex before marriage / finding your \\\"one true love.\\\" There\\\'s no comment on monogamy (i.e. being in a relationship with only one person) in that line at all.