Discussion History ComicBook / ThePunisher

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent!]] [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

In any case, certain heroes, such as IronMan or {{Batman}} have started to become reenvisioned as something far more comfortable and genuinely positive. Now if the creators could simply adapt the idea of proportionate retribution salvation and reincarnation, or somesuch, rather than the torture orgies on anybody they disapprove of (almost everyone), and deluding themselves that this won\\\'t simply help to make the world a worse place to live in, [[BrokenAesop and make them look far more evil than the vast majority of those they get kick out of cheerfully uniformly condemning]].

...Still, returnign to the more interesting tangential topic, at least heavily implied by NeilGaiman and elsewhere, there are serious ongoing dialogues in the media establishment about finally taking responsibility for that they have caused an enormous amount of [[{{Narcissist}} nasal-blindsided-Hollywood-douchebag-voice level vanity]] (\\\"Agitating people through bigot-propaganda isn\\\'t a crime! Goebbels wasn\\\'t responsible! Screw {{Freakonomics}} and brain research!\\\") harm over the years, and the damage has already been done (check PantyAndStocking for a frighteningly accurate Japanese counter-attack parody of what western media in total sounds like and what kind of people you end up with), but I at least genuinely wish them good luck in any attempts to salvage what remains of western society. Personally I think that most of them have the entirely wrong outlook to do it, with far too great tendencies for blindsided reverse-morality and professional lying, to manage it, and tend to be one of the strongest parts of the overall problem (after listening in-depth to hardcore libertarian ideologues, medical high-level psychopaths, rabid religious zealots, and Mussolini-fanboy fascists, they all sort of flow together, with the genuine distinctions of true character apparently non-existent, and no genuine decency whatsoever underneath, even though they frequently claim to be in opposition), especially as the already caused damage has spread like ever-increasing ripples with all of humanity infected and incapable of doing anything but helping it along. And they don\\\'t even realise that the approach they are taking only causes what they condemn in the first place, especially as [[KnightTemplar they recurrently sound]] [[BloodKnight even more extreme themselves]], and that most people actually are much easier to stomach than they are.

In contrast, a million strong internet content controllers, unified China, perfectly poised to take advantage of the splintered culture, especially considering badly prioritised WikiLeaks created diplomatic advantages and the like, but at least trying should produce a much better effect than not at all.

Me? I\\\'ve mostly instinctively/impulsively/reactively done my usual unfiltered raw honest processing patterning to figure out and bring some attention to the problems and in-depth satirised/helped to define the opposing alternative. It\\\'s not much, but there has been quite a lot of response, direct or roundabout, so I hope that it is helping.

It\\\'s not about intolerance in general, it\\\'s about a counter-reaction to thoroughly corrupt overwhelming media trends/finding all of the blindsided seas of utterly misaimed hatred, and inane/inaccurate definition of \\\"if you get damaged that means that you are evil, and should get tortured even further; if you don\\\'t get damaged that means that you are good, and are entitled to torture people, despite much less reason; never mind what reality looks like\\\" utterly tiresome to listen to in the wrong run, and matter-of-fact processing it like raw unfiltered data into as much coherence as possible. One of the strongest blows towards getting rid of the worst of it would probably be to scrap all unified media mishmashes, that drown out all true coherent stories, and make all creative voices/stories stand on their own, entirely self-contained again, [[RunningTheAsylum without being bogged down]].

But again, I\\\'m mostly a reactive processing type, so that\\\'s just the best sense I can make of it for the moment, and I continuously change my mind depending on the input.

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent!]] [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

In any case, certain heroes, such as IronMan or {{Batman}} have started to become reenvisioned as something far more comfortable and genuinely positive. Now if the creators could simply adapt the idea of proportionate retribution salvation and reincarnation, or somesuch, rather than the torture orgies on anybody they disapprove of (almost everyone), and deluding themselves that this won\\\'t simply help to make the world a worse place to live in, [[BrokenAesop and make them look far more evil than the vast majority of those they get kick out of cheerfully uniformly condemning]].

...Still, returnign to the more interesting tangential topic, at least heavily implied by NeilGaiman and elsewhere, there are serious ongoing dialogues in the media establishment about finally taking responsibility for that they have caused an enormous amount of [[{{Narcissist}} nasal-blindsided-Hollywood-douchebag-voice level vanity]] (\\\"Agitating people through bigot-propaganda isn\\\'t a crime! Goebbels wasn\\\'t responsible! Screw {{Freakonomics}} and brain research!\\\") harm over the years, and the damage has already been done (check PantyAndStocking for a frighteningly accurate Japanese counter-attack parody of what western media in total sounds like and what kind of people you end up with), but I at least genuinely wish them good luck in any attempts to salvage what remains of western society. Personally I think that most of them have the entirely wrong outlook to do it, with far too great tendencies for blindsided reverse-morality and professional lying, to manage it, and tend to be one of the strongest parts of the overall problem (after listening in-depth to hardcore libertarian ideologues, medical high-level psychopaths, rabid religious zealots, and Mussolini-fanboy fascists, they all sort of flow together, with the genuine distinctions of true character apparently non-existent, and no genuine decency whatsoever underneath, even though they frequently claim to be in opposition), especially as the already caused damage has spread like ever-increasing ripples with all of humanity infected and incapable of doing anything but helping it along. And they don\\\'t even realise that the approach they are taking only causes what they condemn in the first place, especially as [[KnightTemplar they recurrently sound]] [[BloodKnight even more extreme themselves]], and that most people actually are much easier to stomach than they are.

In contrast, a million strong internet content controllers, unified China, perfectly poised to take advantage of the splintered culture, especially considering badly prioritised WikiLeaks created diplomatic advantages and the like, but at least trying should produce a much better effect than not at all.

Me? I\\\'ve mostly instinctively/impulsively/reactively done my usual unfiltered raw honest processing patterning to figure out and bring some attention to the problems and in-depth satirised/helped to define the opposing alternative. It\\\'s not much, but there has been quite a lot of response, direct or roundabout, so I hope that it is helping.

It\\\'s not about intolerance in general, it\\\'s about a counter-reaction to thoroughly corrupt overwhelming media trends/finding all of the blindsided seas of utterly misaimed hatred, and inane/inaccurate definition of \\\"if you get damaged that means that you are evil, and should get tortured even further; if you don\\\'t get damaged that means that you are good, and are entitled to torture people, despite much less reason; never mind what reality looks like\\\" utterly tiresome to listen to in the wrong run, and matter-of-fact processing it like raw unfiltered data into as much coherence as possible. One of the strongest blows towards getting rid of the worst of it would probably be to scrap all unified media mishmashes, that drown out all true coherent stories, and make all creative voices/stories stand on their own, entirely self-contained again, [[RunningTheAsylum without being bogged down]].

But again, I\\\'m mostly a reactive processing type, so that\\\'s just the best I can make of it right now, and I might change my mind depending on the input.

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent!]] [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

In any case, certain heroes, such as IronMan or {{Batman}} have started to become reenvisioned as something far more comfortable and genuinely positive. Now if the creators could simply adapt the idea of proportionate retribution salvation and reincarnation, or somesuch, rather than the torture orgies on anybody they disapprove of (almost everyone), and deluding themselves that this won\\\'t simply help to make the world a worse place to live in, [[BrokenAesop and make them look far more evil than the vast majority of those they get kick out of cheerfully uniformly condemning]].

...Still, returnign to the more interesting tangential topic, at least heavily implied by NeilGaiman and elsewhere, there are serious ongoing dialogues in the media establishment about finally taking responsibility for that they have caused an enormous amount of [[{{Narcissist}} nasal-blindsided-Hollywood-douchebag-voice level vanity]] (\\\"Agitating people through bigot-propaganda isn\\\'t a crime! Goebbels wasn\\\'t responsible! Screw {{Freakonomics}} and brain research!\\\") harm over the years, and the damage has already been done (check PantyAndStocking for a frighteningly accurate Japanese counter-attack parody of what western media in total sounds like and what kind of people you end up with), but I at least genuinely wish them good luck in any attempts to salvage what remains of western society. Personally I think that most of them have the entirely wrong outlook to do it, with far too great tendencies for blindsided reverse-morality and professional lying, to manage it, and tend to be one of the strongest parts of the overall problem (after listening in-depth to hardcore libertarian ideologues, medical high-level psychopaths, rabid religious zealots, and Mussolini-fanboy fascists, they all sort of flow together, with the genuine distinctions of true character apparently non-existent, and no genuine decency whatsoever underneath, even though they frequently claim to be in opposition), especially as the already caused damage has spread like ever-increasing ripples with all of humanity infected and incapable of doing anything but helping it along. And they don\\\'t even realise that the approach they are taking only causes what they condemn in the first place, especially as [[KnightTemplar they recurrently sound]] [[BloodKnight even more extreme themselves]], and that most people actually are much easier to stomach than they are.

In contrast, a million strong internet content controllers, unified China, perfectly poised to take advantage of the splintered culture, especially considering badly prioritised WikiLeaks created diplomatic advantages and the like, but at least trying should produce a much better effect than not at all.

Me? I\\\'ve mostly instinctively/impulsively/reactively done my usual unfiltered raw honest processing patterning to figure out and bring some attention to the problems and in-depth satirised/helped to define the opposing alternative. It\\\'s not much, but there has been quite a lot of response, direct or roundabout, so I hope that it is helping.

It\\\'s not about intolerance in general, it\\\'s about a counter-reaction to thoroughly corrupt overwhelming media trends/finding all of the blindsided seas of utterly misaimed hatred, and inane/inaccurate definition of \\\"if you get damaged that means that you are evil, and should get tortured even further; if you don\\\'t get damaged that means that you are good, and are entitled to torture people, despite much less reason; never mind what reality looks like\\\" utterly tiresome to listen to in the wrong run, and matter-of-fact processing it like raw unfiltered data into as much coherence as possible. One of the strongest blows towards getting rid of the wrost of it might be to scrap all unified media mishmashes, that drown out all true coherent stories, and make all creative voices/stories stand on their own, entirely self-contained again.

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent!]] [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

In any case, certain heroes, such as IronMan or {{Batman}} have started to become reenvisioned as something far more comfortable and genuinely positive. Now if the creators could simply adapt the idea of proportionate retribution salvation and reincarnation, or somesuch, rather than the torture orgies on anybody they disapprove of (almost everyone), and deluding themselves that this won\\\'t simply help to make the world a worse place to live in, [[BrokenAesop and make them look far more evil than the vast majority of those they get kick out of cheerfully uniformly condemning]].

...Still, returnign to the more interesting tangential topic, at least heavily implied by NeilGaiman and elsewhere, there are serious ongoing dialogues in the media establishment about finally taking responsibility for that they have caused an enormous amount of [[{{Narcissist}} nasal-blindsided-Hollywood-douchebag-voice level vanity]] (\\\"Agitating people through bigot-propaganda isn\\\'t a crime! Goebbels wasn\\\'t responsible! Screw {{Freakonomics}} and brain research!\\\") harm over the years, and the damage has already been done (check PantyAndStocking for a frighteningly accurate Japanese counter-attack parody of what western media in total sounds like and what kind of people you end up with), but I at least genuinely wish them good luck in any attempts to salvage what remains of western society. Personally I think that most of them have the entirely wrong outlook to do it, with far too great tendencies for blindsided reverse-morality and professional lying, to manage it, and tend to be one of the strongest parts of the overall problem (after listening in-depth to hardcore libertarian ideologues, medical high-level psychopaths, rabid religious zealots, and Mussolini-fanboy fascists, they all sort of flow together, with the genuine distinctions of true character apparently non-existent, and no genuine decency whatsoever underneath, even though they frequently claim to be in opposition), especially as the already caused damage has spread like ever-increasing ripples with all of humanity infected and incapable of doing anything but helping it along. And they don\\\'t even realise that the approach they are taking only causes what they condemn in the first place, especially as [[KnightTemplar they recurrently sound]] [[BloodKnight even more extreme themselves]], and that most people actually are much easier to stomach than they are.

In contrast, a million strong internet content controllers, unified China, perfectly poised to take advantage of the splintered culture, especially considering badly prioritised WikiLeaks created diplomatic advantages and the like, but at least trying should produce a much better effect than not at all.

Me? I\\\'ve mostly instinctively/impulsively/reactively done my usual unfiltered raw honest processing patterning to figure out and bring some attention to the problems and in-depth satirised/helped to define the opposing alternative. It\\\'s not much, but there has been quite a lot of response, direct or roundabout, so I hope that it is helping.

It\\\'s not about intolerance in general, it\\\'s about a counter-reaction to thoroughly corrupt overwhelming media trends/finding all of the blindsided seas of utterly misaimed hatred, and inane/inaccurate definition of \\\"if you get damaged that means that you are evil, and should get tortured even further; if you don\\\'t get damaged that means that you are good, and are entitled to torture people, despite much less reason; never mind what reality looks like\\\" utterly tiresome to listen to in the wrong run, and matter-of-fact processing it like raw unfiltered data into as much coherence as possible. The strongest blow towards getting rid of it is to scrap all unified media mishmashes, and make all stories and creative voices/stories stand on their own, entirely self-contained again.

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent!]] [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

In any case, certain heroes, such as IronMan or {{Batman}} have started to become reenvisioned as something far more comfortable and genuinely positive. Now if the creators could simply adapt the idea of proportionate retribution salvation and reincarnation, or somesuch, rather than the torture orgies on anybody they disapprove of (almost everyone), and deluding themselves that this won\\\'t simply help to make the world a worse place to live in, [[BrokenAesop and make them look far more evil than the vast majority of those they get kick out of cheerfully uniformly condemning]].

...Still, returnign to the more interesting tangential topic, at least heavily implied by NeilGaiman and elsewhere, there are serious ongoing dialogues in the media establishment about finally taking responsibility for that they have caused an enormous amount of nasal-Hollywood-blindsided-vanity-voice level self-absorbed (\\\"Agitating people through bigot-propaganda isn\\\'t a crime! Goebbels wasn\\\'t responsible! Screw {{Freakonomics}} and brain research!\\\") harm over the years, and the damage has already been done (check PantyAndStocking for a frighteningly accurate Japanese counter-attack parody of what western media in total sounds like and what kind of people you end up with), but I at least genuinely wish them good luck in any attempts to salvage what remains of western society. Personally I think that most of them have the entirely wrong outlook to do it, with far too great tendencies for blindsided reverse-morality and professional lying, to manage it, and tend to be one of the strongest parts of the overall problem (after listening in-depth to hardcore libertarian ideologues, medical high-level psychopaths, rabid religious zealots, and Mussolini-fanboy fascists, they all sort of flow together, with the genuine distinctions of true character apparently non-existent, and no genuine decency whatsoever underneath, even though they frequently claim to be in opposition), especially as the already caused damage has spread like ever-increasing ripples with all of humanity infected and incapable of doing anything but helping it along. And they don\\\'t even realise that the approach they are taking only causes what they condemn in the first place, especially as [[KnightTemplar they recurrently sound]] [[BloodKnight even more extreme themselves]], and that most people actually are much easier to stomach than they are.

In contrast, a million strong internet content controllers, unified China, perfectly poised to take advantage of the splintered culture, especially considering badly prioritised WikiLeaks created diplomatic advantages and the like, but at least trying should produce a much better effect than not at all.

Me? I\\\'ve mostly instinctively/impulsively/reactively done my usual unfiltered raw honest processing patterning to figure out and bring some attention to the problems and in-depth satirised/helped to define the opposing alternative. It\\\'s not much, but there has been quite a lot of response, direct or roundabout, so I hope that it is helping.

It\\\'s not about intolerance in general, it\\\'s about a counter-reaction to thoroughly corrupt overwhelming media trends/finding all of the blindsided seas of utterly misaimed hatred, and inane/inaccurate definition of \\\"if you get damaged that means that you are evil, and should get tortured even further; if you don\\\'t get damaged that means that you are good, and are entitled to torture people, despite much less reason; never mind what reality looks like\\\" utterly tiresome to listen to in the wrong run, and matter-of-fact processing it like raw unfiltered data into as much coherence as possible. The strongest blow towards getting rid of it is to scrap all unified media mishmashes, and make all stories and creative voices/stories stand on their own, entirely self-contained again.

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

In any case, certain heroes, such as IronMan or {{Batman}} have started to become reenvisioned as something far more comfortable and genuinely positive. Now if the creators could simply adapt the idea of proportionate retribution salvation and reincarnation, or somesuch, rather than the torture orgies on anybody they disapprove of (almost everyone), and deluding themselves that this won\\\'t simply help to make the world a worse place to live in, [[BrokenAesop and make them look far more evil than the vast majority of those they get kick out of cheerfully uniformly condemning]].

...Still, returnign to the more interesting tangential topic, at least heavily implied by NeilGaiman and elsewhere, there are serious ongoing dialogues in the media establishment about finally taking responsibility for that they have caused an enormous amount of nasal-Hollywood-blindsided-vanity-voice level self-absorbed (\\\"Agitating people through bigot-propaganda isn\\\'t a crime! Goebbels wasn\\\'t responsible! Screw {{Freakonomics}} and brain research!\\\") harm over the years, and the damage has already been done (check PantyAndStocking for a frighteningly accurate Japanese counter-attack parody of what western media in total sounds like and what kind of people you end up with), but I at least genuinely wish them good luck in any attempts to salvage what remains of western society. Personally I think that most of them have the entirely wrong outlook to do it, with far too great tendencies for blindsided reverse-morality and professional lying, to manage it, and tend to be one of the strongest parts of the overall problem (after listening in-depth to hardcore libertarian ideologues, medical high-level psychopaths, rabid religious zealots, and Mussolini-fanboy fascists, they all sort of flow together, with the genuine distinctions of true character apparently non-existent, and no genuine decency whatsoever underneath, even though they frequently claim to be in opposition), especially as the already caused damage has spread like ever-increasing ripples with all of humanity infected and incapable of doing anything but helping it along. And they don\\\'t even realise that the approach they are taking only causes what they condemn in the first place, especially as [[KnightTemplar they recurrently sound]] [[BloodKnight even more extreme themselves]], and that most people actually are much easier to stomach than they are.

In contrast, a million strong internet content controllers, unified China, perfectly poised to take advantage of the splintered culture, especially considering badly prioritised WikiLeaks created diplomatic advantages and the like, but at least trying should produce a much better effect than not at all.

Me? I\\\'ve mostly instinctively/impulsively/reactively done my usual unfiltered raw honest processing patterning to figure out and bring some attention to the problems and in-depth satirised/helped to define the opposing alternative. It\\\'s not much, but there has been quite a lot of response, direct or roundabout, so I hope that it is helping.

It\\\'s not about intolerance in general, it\\\'s about a counter-reaction to thoroughly corrupt overwhelming media trends/finding all of the blindsided seas of utterly misaimed hatred, and inane/inaccurate definition of \\\"if you get damaged that means that you are evil, and should get tortured even further; if you don\\\'t get damaged that means that you are good, and are entitled to torture people, despite much less reason; never mind what reality looks like\\\" utterly tiresome to listen to in the wrong run, and matter-of-fact processing it like raw unfiltered data into as much coherence as possible. The strongest blow towards getting rid of it is to scrap all unified media mishmashes, and make all stories and creative voices/stories stand on their own, entirely self-contained again.

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

In any case, certain heroes, such as IronMan or {{Batman}} have started to become reenvisioned as something far more comfortable and genuinely positive. Now if the creators could simply adapt the idea of proportionate retribution salvation and reincarnation, or somesuch, rather than the torture orgies on anybody they disapprove of (almost everyone), and deluding themselves that this won\\\'t simply help to make the world a worse place to live in, [[BrokenAesop and make them look far more evil than the vast majority of those they get kick out of cheerfully uniformly condemning]].

...Still, returnign to the more interesting tangential topic, at least heavily implied by NeilGaiman and elsewhere, there are serious ongoing dialogues in the media establishment about finally taking responsibility for that they have caused an enormous amount of nasal-Hollywood-blindsided-vanity-voice level self-absorbed (\\\"Agitating people through bigot-propaganda isn\\\'t a crime! Goebbels wasn\\\'t responsible! Screw {{Freakonomics}} and brain research!\\\") harm over the years, and the damage has already been done (check PantyAndStocking for a frighteningly accurate Japanese counter-attack parody of what western media in total sounds like and what kind of people you end up with), but I at least genuinely wish them good luck in any attempts to salvage what remains of western society. Personally I think that most of them have the entirely wrong outlook to do it, with far too great tendencies for blindsided reverse-morality and professional lying, to manage it, and tend to be one of the strongest parts of the overall problem (after listening in-depth to hardcore libertarian ideologues, medical high-level psychopaths, rabid religious zealots, and Mussolini-fanboy fascists, they all sort of flow together, with the genuine distinctions of true character apparently non-existent, and no genuine decency whatsoever underneath, even though they frequently claim to be in opposition), especially as the already caused damage has spread like ever-increasing ripples with all of humanity infected and incapable of doing anything but helping it along. And they don\\\'t even realise that the approach they are taking only causes what they condemn in the first place, especially as [[KnightTemplar they recurrently sound]] [[BloodKnight even more extreme themselves]], and that most people actually are much easier to stomach than they are.

In contrast, a million strong internet content controllers, unified China, perfectly poised to take advantage of the splintered culture, especially considering badly prioritised WikiLeaks created diplomatic advantages and the like, but at least trying should produce a much better effect than not at all.

Me? I\\\'ve mostly instinctively/impulsively/reactively done my usual unfiltered raw honest processing patterning to figure out and bring some attention to the problems and in-depth satirised/helped to define the opposing alternative. It\\\'s not much, but there has been quite a lot of response, so I hope that it is helping.

It\\\'s not about intolerance in general, it\\\'s about a counter-reaction/finding all of the blindsided seas of utterly misaimed hatred, and inane/inaccurate definition of \\\"if you get damaged that means that you are evil, and should get tortured even further; if you don\\\'t get damaged that means that you are good, and are entitled to torture people, despite much less reason; never mind what reality looks like\\\" utterly tiresome to listen to in the wrong run, and matter-of-fact processing it like raw unfiltered data into as much coherence as possible. The strongest blow towards getting rid of it is to scrap all unified media mishmashes, and make all stories and creative voices/stories stand on their own, entirely self-contained again.

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

In any case, certain heroes, such as IronMan or {{Batman}} have started to become reenvisioned as something far more comfortable and genuinely positive. Now if the creators could simply adapt the idea of proportionate retribution salvation and reincarnation, or somesuch, rather than the torture orgies on anybody they disapprove of (almost everyone), and deluding themselves that this won\\\'t simply help to make the world a worse place to live in, [[BrokenAesop and make them look far more evil than the vast majority of those they get kick out of cheerfully uniformly condemning]].

...Still, returnign to the more interesting tangential topic, at least going by NeilGaiman, there are serious ongoing dialogues in the media establishment about finally taking responsibility for that they have caused an enormous amount of self-absorbed (\\\"Agitating people through bigot-propaganda isn\\\'t a crime! Goebbels wasn\\\'t responsible! Screw {{Freakonomics}} and brain research!\\\") harm over the years, and the damage has already been done, so trying to salvage what remains of western society, so I genuinely wish them good luck in that at least. Personally I think that most of them have the wrong outlook to do it, with far too great tendencies for blindsided reverse-morality and professional lying, to manage it, especially as the already caused damage has spread like ever-increasing ripples with all of humanity infected and incapable of doing anything but helping it along, and a million strong internet content controllers, unified China, perfectly poised to take advantage of the splintered culture, especially considering badly prioritised WikiLeaks created diplomatic advantages and the like, but at least trying should produce a much better effect than not at all.

Me? I\\\'ve mostly done my usual unfiltered raw honest processing to figure out and bring some attention to the problem and in-depth satirised the opposing alternative. It\\\'s not much, but there has been quite a lot of response, so I hope that it is helping.

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

In any case, certain heroes, such as IronMan or {{Batman}} have started to become reenvisioned as something far more comfortable and genuinely positive. Now if the creators could simply adapt the idea of proportionate retribution salvation and reincarnation, or somesuch, rather than the torture orgies on anybody they disapprove of (almost everyone), and deluding themselves that this won\\\'t simply help to make the world a worse place to live in, [[BrokenAesop and make them look far more evil than the vast majority of those they get kick out of cheerfully uniformly condemning]].

...Still, returnign to the more interesting tangential topic, at least going by NeilGaiman, there are serious ongoing dialogues in the media establishment about finally taking responsibility for that they have caused an enormous amount of self-absorbed (\\\"Agitating people through bigot-propaganda isn\\\'t a crime! Goebbels wasn\\\'t responsible! Screw {{Freakonomics}} and brain research!\\\") harm over the years, and the damage has already been done, so trying to salvage what remains of western society, so I genuinely wish them good luck in that at least. Personally I think that most of them have the wrong outlook to do it, with far too great tendencies for blindsided reverse-morality and professional lying, to manage it, especially as the already caused damage has spread like ever-increasing ripples with all of humanity infected and incapable of doing anything but helping it along, and a million strong internet content controllers, unified China, perfectly poised to take advantage of the splintered culture, especially considering badly prioritised WikiLeaks created diplomatic advantages and the like, but at least trying should produce a much better effect than not at all. Me? I\\\'ve mostly done my usual unfiltered raw honest processing to figure out and bring some attention to the problem and in-depth satirised the opposing alternative. It\\\'s not much, but there has been quite a lot of response, so I hope that it is helping.

Btw: Are you GailSimone cclospina? You do have a rather similar personality.

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

In any case, certain heroes, such as IronMan or {{Batman}} have started to become reenvisioned as something far more comfortable and genuinely positive. Now if the creators could simply adapt the idea of proportionate retribution salvation and reincarnation, or somesuch, rather than the torture orgies on anybody they disapprove of (almost everyone), and deluding themselves that this won\\\'t simply help to make the world a worse place to live in, [[BrokenAesop and make them look far more evil than the vast majority of those they get kick out of cheerfully uniformly condemning]].

...Still, returnign to the more interesting tangential topic, at least going by NeilGaiman, there are serious ongoing dialogues in the media establishment about finally taking responsibility for that they have caused an enormous amount of self-absorbed (\\\"Agitating people through bigot-propaganda isn\\\'t a crime! Goebbels wasn\\\'t responsible! Screw {{Freakonomics}} and brain research!\\\") harm over the years, and the damage has already been done, so trying to salvage what remains of western society, so I genuinely wish them good luck in that at least. Personally I think that most of them have the wrong outlook to do it, with far too great tendencies for blindsided reverse-morality and professional lying, to manage it, especially as the already caused damage has spread like ever-increasing ripples with all of humanity infected and incapable of doing anything but helping it along, and a million strong internet content controllers, unified China, perfectly poised to take advantage of the splintered culture, especially considering badly prioritised WikiLeaks created diplomatic advantages and the like, but at least trying should produce a much better effect than not at all. Me? I\\\'ve mostly done my usual unfiltered raw honest processing to figure out and bring some attention to the problem and in-depth satirised the opposing alternative. It\\\'s not much, but there has been quite a lot of response, so I hope that it is helping.

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

In any case, certain heroes, such as IronMan or {{Batman}} have started to become reenvisioned as something far more comfortable and genuinely positive. Now if the creators could simply adapt the idea of proportionate retribution salvation and reincarnation, or somesuch, rather than the torture orgies on anybody they disapprove of (almost everyone), and deluding themselves that this won\\\'t simply help to make the world a worse place to live in, [[BrokenAesop and make them look far more evil than the vast majority of those they get kick out of cheerfully uniformly condemning]].

...Still, returnign to the more interesting tangential topic, at least going by NeilGaiman, there are serious ongoing dialogues in the media establishment about finally taking responsibility for that they have caused an enormous amount of self-absorbed harm over the years, and trying to salvage what remains of western society, so good luck in that at least. Personally I think that most of them have the wrong outlook to do it, with far too great tendencies for blindsided reverse-morality and professional lying, to manage it, especially as the already caused damage has spread like ever-increasing ripples with all of humanity infected and incapable of doing anything but helping it along, and a million strong internet content controllers, unified China, perfectly poised to take advantage of the splintered culture, especially considering badly prioritised WikiLeaks created diplomatic advantages and the like, but at least trying should produce a much better effect than not at all.

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

In any case, certain heroes, such as IronMan or {{Batman}} have started to become reenvisioned as something far more comfortable and genuinely positive. Now if the creators could simply adapt the idea of proportionate retribution salvation and reincarnation, or somesuch, rather than the torture orgies on anybody they disapprove of (almost everyone), and deluding themselves that this won\\\'t simply help to make the world a worse place to live in, [[BrokenAesop and make them look far more evil than the vast majority of those they get kick out of cheerfully uniformly condemning]].

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-consciousness, not an essay, and I\\\'ve written much more thorough and comprehensible analyses on the topic elsewhere, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent incompatibility/\\\"inconsistency\\\", as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank simply had remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe... [[VillainousBreakdown well, at least the other guy is even worse]]) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, the first option to be accepted as the \\\"bloodcrazed frenzied apes ripping each other to pieces in a pit\\\" inescapable status quo, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without intense sadism, [[DisproportionateRetribution torture-fetischism]], murder, stylish quotable bigotry, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for... with all hopes, higher ideals, and so on thoroughly destroyed (And yes, it is a tough spot to start from as any religion stemming from the OldTestament taken literally always sounds almost indistinguishable from {{Nazism}}, so any hopes, dreams, or refuges were perverted into the complete opposite long before anybody now alive entered the picture, but thoughtlessly incorporating and applying them always automatically makes the creator in question sound word-by-word like a rot-spreading Nazi, seriously, and this is tragic as most probably have good intentions, [[NietzscheWannabe and the opposing atheism isn\\\'t the answer either]], but it is still there propagating entitled torture and condemnation for comparative petty trivialities as something laudable). In any case, essentially Frank\\\'s type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, this is just stream-of-.consciousness, not an essay, but returning to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises/how his type of serial-killing actions would function in the real world, and that it is turning common to seriously consider performing them, as well as the sheer extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar mass-murdering callous fanatic with an agenda, and no compassion either for victims or less-than-severe non-evil criminals... However, yes, obviously there is some inherent inconsistency, as there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank would simply have remained a soldier/sniper accountable to a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe...) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without sadism, torture, murder, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for. Essentially his type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustifications, is lauded as an ideal (ThePunisher at least has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

Anyway, returnign to \\\"Is he a VillainProtagonist?\\\" Answer: Yes, in terms of what he symbolises in terms of how his type of sserial-killing actions would function in the real world, and the the extremes he commits, and we cannot call him anything but a villain without condoning JackTheRipper or any other BloodKnight KnightTemplar murderous fanatic with an agenda... However, yes, obviously there wouldn\\\'t be a clear-cut answer if Frank would simply have remained a soldier/sniper working for a \\\"[[BlackAndGrayMorality reasonably benevolent democratic government]]\\\", instead, [[{{Understatement}} as the real world isn\\\'t nice at all]] and extremely regretably sometimes does need (somewhat, sort of, kind of, maybe...) \\\"altruistic\\\" enforcement to function. The problem is that his type of \\\"hero\\\" is making humanity consider the full dirty mass-murdering extent as something noble and admireable, rather than putting up genuine kindness, tolerance, and altrusim, without sadism, torture, murder, and calculated extremist ideology agendas, as the ideal to strive for. Essentially his type of VillainProtagonist is put in the wrong setting, and given the sheer predominance over more traditionally clear-cut laudable characters the standards are slipping further and further to the point where youths in general seriously think that {{Deadpool}} is a fully acceptable nice guy. :(

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when what in the real world would be pure absolute evil, especially froma position of non-traumatised absolute entitlement, without say any riduculously extreme war trauma and brainwashing JerkJustification, is lauded as an ideal (at least ThePunisher has the excuse of simply being a limited human with few other options on his own, which actually gives him a much bigger excuse than Wolverine, and is not presented as something bright and shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna and her ilk on the other hand...), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when pure evil is lauded as an ideal (at least ThePunisher has the excuse of simply being a limited human, and not presented as something shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna on the other hand), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of [[MoralMyopia blindsided]] hateful ideologues).

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE! WRIIIITHEEEE! ROAST ON A SPIT! I WANT ANNNGUISSH!]]... [[PolishTheTurd but coated in sugar]] [[CrapSaccharineWorld to make it sound reasonable]]... And no, I\\\'m not remotely a drug addict, but it\\\'s not necessary to get disturbed when pure evil is lauded as an ideal (at least ThePunisher has the excuse of simply being a limited human, and not presented as something shiny while committing gruesome horrors... Zatanna on the other hand), and you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of hateful ideologues).

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE!]] ...And no, I\\\'m not a drug addict, but you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of hateful ideologues).

And yes, he very much would hurt an innocent, and still continue as usual. Not target them deliberately no, but he knows \\\"that wars have civilian casualties\\\".

Even his most LighterAndSofter incarnation did kill a civilian female hostage after a cell of EagleLand style survivalist Nazis wanted him to prove his loyalties during an infiltration.\\\'

Of course, real world politics actually mostly work in terms of EvilVersusEvil, there is little to do about that, and anybody who is not uneasy with the fact tends to be a CompleteMonster.

However, he is still a serial-killer OneManArmy, somebody who applies the libertarian UberMensch ideal of \\\"An individual having full authority beyond the hypocritical rule of law to apply his own brand of \\\"justice\\\", the same they themselves do in a greater scale. If terrorists work \\\"independently\\\" (supported by assorted factions from diverse governments); why should there not be counter-organisations (that somehow manage to finance themselves) that also combat them beyond any rule of law? Chaos is a much better way to combat Chaos than bureaucratic, inefficient, slow-moving order. Now, let\\\'s to talk about raving one-fit-for-everything _ideology_ without either reality, compassion for the social-Darwinian foodstuff that Does Not Deserve To Exist (TM), or accountability to any authority beyond my own blindsided gargantuan ego!\\\"

Of course, for the real world this tends to simply reduce practical efficiency/capability against high civilian casualties, and would be much better applied by assisting existing entities with new data, expertise, flexibility, or areas of attack... Taking the law into one\\\'s own hands on such a serious matter as torture and mass-murder makes somebody into another JackTheRipper: \\\"Filthy immoral prostitutes that make me want them! Kill them all!\\\" -> \\\"[[AcceptableHardLuckTargets Filthy immoral drug-addict leeches upon society that are slaves to their addictions]], [[HorribleHollywood and the research that dares to challenge my ideology by stating that their free will is virtually non-existent! [[CompleteMonster They haven\\\'t suffered nearly enough! Kill them all in as gruesome hideous and torturous fashions as possible! I will write multitudes of excruciatingly hateful propaganda for it and then assign them all to be tortured forever to show what a comparatively good and decent person that I am! They aren\\\'t any better than the people who enslave them, because they gladly allow themselves to be enslaved, and love being like this! There are no victims! Don\\\'t ever give them treatment! DIIIIIIIIIEEEEEE!]] ...And no, I\\\'m not a drug addict, but you know, that\\\'s literally the kind of extension this type of reasoning leads to ([[MoralDissonance and yes, a large part of American media creators actually do sound like that, and tend to assume that they are among the nicest percentiles of humanity, even though they read like some of the genuinely nastiest people you have ever encountered]], InNameOnly comparatively tame local neo-Nazis included... Gawd, I get tired of ideologes).