[003]
rva98014
Current Version
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
The most general definition of gaslighting is \
to:
The most general definition of gaslighting is \\\"denying someone\\\'s perceptions of reality in order to cause confusion, anguish, and paranoia\\\".
After Maribel finishes \\\"Waiting for a Miracle\\\" we see, along with Mirabel, cracks appear in the Casita. We see Mirabel burst into the party shouting about the house being in danger, tiles falling, cracks everywhere, and the candle almost went out. But when Alma and the rest of the party come into the open area, there\\\'s absolutely no evidence for any of Mirabel\\\'s claims.
We see Alma cut Mirabel\\\'s protests short and declare that nothing is wrong with La Casa Madrigal and that the magic is strong.
Later, when Alma has her prayer to Pedro we overhear that she laments about cracks in the Casita and asks for his help to figure out what\\\'s going on. The fact that she calls her family vulnerable suggests she\\\'s seen many cracks appear over time and she\\\'s not just reacting solely to Mirabel\\\'s outburst that evening. In fact, unless Alma had seen cracks before, she really had no reason to take Mirabel\\\'s claims seriously.
To me, this doesn\\\'t count as gaslighting because:
1) Alma is not intentionally trying to cause Mirabel to feel confusion, anguish, and paranoia.
2) Alma is not the active agent who causes the cracks to appear then disappear in order for Mirabel to see them and then not be believed.
3) Mirabel\\\'s outburst followed by a lack of any evidence doesn\\\'t really give Alma a good opportunity to publicly support Mirabel especially given Alma\\\'s character arc which is based on the fear of the miracle dying.
4) At most Alma is guilty of not sharing all that she knows. In other words, she lied to Mirabel and did not try to talk to Mirabel afterwards.
In my opinion, I don\\\'t think gaslighting is truly in play here.
Lying... yes.
Failure to confide in Mirabel after Antonio\\\'s party... yes.
PoorCommunicationKills... yes.
But actual gaslighting... no.
I believe the trope should be removed.
However, if there\\\'s a feeling that the trope should remain on the list because Alma actively denies anything is wrong with the Casita when she apparently is aware that the Casita has been cracking at some point, I\\\'m ok with the listing staying but it really needs to point out that it is a downplayed version of the trope and explain why.
After Maribel finishes \\\"Waiting for a Miracle\\\" we see, along with Mirabel, cracks appear in the Casita. We see Mirabel burst into the party shouting about the house being in danger, tiles falling, cracks everywhere, and the candle almost went out. But when Alma and the rest of the party come into the open area, there\\\'s absolutely no evidence for any of Mirabel\\\'s claims.
We see Alma cut Mirabel\\\'s protests short and declare that nothing is wrong with La Casa Madrigal and that the magic is strong.
Later, when Alma has her prayer to Pedro we overhear that she laments about cracks in the Casita and asks for his help to figure out what\\\'s going on. The fact that she calls her family vulnerable suggests she\\\'s seen many cracks appear over time and she\\\'s not just reacting solely to Mirabel\\\'s outburst that evening. In fact, unless Alma had seen cracks before, she really had no reason to take Mirabel\\\'s claims seriously.
To me, this doesn\\\'t count as gaslighting because:
1) Alma is not intentionally trying to cause Mirabel to feel confusion, anguish, and paranoia.
2) Alma is not the active agent who causes the cracks to appear then disappear in order for Mirabel to see them and then not be believed.
3) Mirabel\\\'s outburst followed by a lack of any evidence doesn\\\'t really give Alma a good opportunity to publicly support Mirabel especially given Alma\\\'s character arc which is based on the fear of the miracle dying.
4) At most Alma is guilty of not sharing all that she knows. In other words, she lied to Mirabel and did not try to talk to Mirabel afterwards.
In my opinion, I don\\\'t think gaslighting is truly in play here.
Lying... yes.
Failure to confide in Mirabel after Antonio\\\'s party... yes.
PoorCommunicationKills... yes.
But actual gaslighting... no.
I believe the trope should be removed.
However, if there\\\'s a feeling that the trope should remain on the list because Alma actively denies anything is wrong with the Casita when she apparently is aware that the Casita has been cracking at some point, I\\\'m ok with the listing staying but it really needs to point out that it is a downplayed version of the trope and explain why.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
The most general definition of gaslighting is \
to:
The most general definition of gaslighting is \\\"denying someone\\\'s perceptions of reality in order to cause confusion, anguish, and paranoia\\\".
After Maribel finishes \\\"Waiting for a Miracle\\\" we see, along with Mirabel, cracks appear in the Casita. We see Mirabel burst into the party shouting about the house being in danger, tiles falling, cracks everywhere, and the candle almost went out. But when Alma and the rest of the party come into the open area, there\\\'s absolutely no evidence for any of Mirabel\\\'s claims.
We see Alma cut Mirabel\\\'s protests short and declare that nothing is wrong with La Casa Madrigal and that the magic is strong.
Later, when Alma has her prayer to Pedro we overhear that she laments about cracks in the Casita and asks for his help to figure out what\\\'s going on. The fact that she calls her family vulnerable suggests she\\\'s seen many cracks appear over time and she\\\'s not just reacting solely to Mirabel\\\'s outburst that evening. In fact, unless Alma had seen cracks before, she really had no reason to take Mirabel\\\'s claims seriously.
To me, this doesn\\\'t count as gaslighting because:
1) Alma is not intentionally trying to cause Mirabel to feel confusion, anguish, and paranoia.
2) Alma is not the active agent who causes the cracks to appear then disappear in order for Mirabel to see them and then not be believed.
3) Mirabel\\\'s outburst followed by a lack of any evidence doesn\\\'t really give Alma a good opportunity to publicly support Mirabel especially given Alma\\\'s character arc which is based on the fear of the miracle dying.
4) At most Alma is guilty of not sharing all that she knows. In other words, she lied to Mirabel and did not try to talk to Mirabel afterwards.
In my opinion, I don\\\'t think gaslighting is truly in play here.
Lying... yes.
Failure to confide in Mirabel after Antonio\\\'s party... yes.
PoorCommunicationKills... yes.
But actual gaslighting... no.
After Maribel finishes \\\"Waiting for a Miracle\\\" we see, along with Mirabel, cracks appear in the Casita. We see Mirabel burst into the party shouting about the house being in danger, tiles falling, cracks everywhere, and the candle almost went out. But when Alma and the rest of the party come into the open area, there\\\'s absolutely no evidence for any of Mirabel\\\'s claims.
We see Alma cut Mirabel\\\'s protests short and declare that nothing is wrong with La Casa Madrigal and that the magic is strong.
Later, when Alma has her prayer to Pedro we overhear that she laments about cracks in the Casita and asks for his help to figure out what\\\'s going on. The fact that she calls her family vulnerable suggests she\\\'s seen many cracks appear over time and she\\\'s not just reacting solely to Mirabel\\\'s outburst that evening. In fact, unless Alma had seen cracks before, she really had no reason to take Mirabel\\\'s claims seriously.
To me, this doesn\\\'t count as gaslighting because:
1) Alma is not intentionally trying to cause Mirabel to feel confusion, anguish, and paranoia.
2) Alma is not the active agent who causes the cracks to appear then disappear in order for Mirabel to see them and then not be believed.
3) Mirabel\\\'s outburst followed by a lack of any evidence doesn\\\'t really give Alma a good opportunity to publicly support Mirabel especially given Alma\\\'s character arc which is based on the fear of the miracle dying.
4) At most Alma is guilty of not sharing all that she knows. In other words, she lied to Mirabel and did not try to talk to Mirabel afterwards.
In my opinion, I don\\\'t think gaslighting is truly in play here.
Lying... yes.
Failure to confide in Mirabel after Antonio\\\'s party... yes.
PoorCommunicationKills... yes.
But actual gaslighting... no.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
The most general definition of gaslighting is \
to:
The most general definition of gaslighting is \\\"denying someone\\\'s perceptions of reality in order to cause confusion, anguish, and paranoia\\\".
After Maribel finishes \\\"Waiting for a Miracle\\\" we see, along with Mirabel, cracks appear in the Casita. We see Mirabel burst into the party shouting about the house being in danger, tiles falling, cracks everywhere, and the candle almost went out. But when Alma and the rest of the party come into the open area, there\\\'s absolutely no evidence for any of Mirabel\\\'s claims.
We see Alma cut Mirabel\\\'s protests short and declare that nothing is wrong with La Casa Madrigal and that the magic is strong.
Later, when Alma has her prayer to Pedro we overhear that she laments about cracks in the Casita and asks for his help to figure out what\\\'s going on. The fact that she calls her family vulnerable suggests she\\\'s seen many cracks appear over time and she\\\'s not just reacting solely to Mirabel\\\'s outburst that evening. In fact, unless Alma had seen cracks before, she really had no reason to take Mirabel\\\'s claims seriously.
To me, this doesn\\\'t count as gaslighting because:
1) Alma is not intentionally trying to cause Mirabel to feel confusion, anguish, and paranoia.
2) Alma is not the active agent who causes the cracks to appear then disappear in order for Mirabel to see them and then not be believed.
3) Mirabel\\\'s outburst followed by a lack of any evidence doesn\\\'t really give Alma a good opportunity to publicly support Mirabel especially given Alma\\\'s character arc which is based on the fear of the miracle dying.
4) At most Alma is guilty of not sharing all that she knows. In other words, she lied to Mirabel and did not try to talk to Mirabel afterwards.
In my opinion, I don\\\'t think gaslighting is truly in play here.
Lying... yes.
Failure to confide in Mirabel after Antonio\\\'s party... yes.
PoorCommunicationKills... yes.
But actual gaslighting... no.
After Maribel finishes \\\"Waiting for a Miracle\\\" we see, along with Mirabel, cracks appear in the Casita. We see Mirabel burst into the party shouting about the house being in danger, tiles falling, cracks everywhere, and the candle almost went out. But when Alma and the rest of the party come into the open area, there\\\'s absolutely no evidence for any of Mirabel\\\'s claims.
We see Alma cut Mirabel\\\'s protests short and declare that nothing is wrong with La Casa Madrigal and that the magic is strong.
Later, when Alma has her prayer to Pedro we overhear that she laments about cracks in the Casita and asks for his help to figure out what\\\'s going on. The fact that she calls her family vulnerable suggests she\\\'s seen many cracks appear over time and she\\\'s not just reacting solely to Mirabel\\\'s outburst that evening. In fact, unless Alma had seen cracks before, she really had no reason to take Mirabel\\\'s claims seriously.
To me, this doesn\\\'t count as gaslighting because:
1) Alma is not intentionally trying to cause Mirabel to feel confusion, anguish, and paranoia.
2) Alma is not the active agent who causes the cracks to appear then disappear in order for Mirabel to see them and then not be believed.
3) Mirabel\\\'s outburst followed by a lack of any evidence doesn\\\'t really give Alma a good opportunity to publicly support Mirabel especially given Alma\\\'s character arc which is based on the fear of the miracle dying.
4) At most Alma is guilty of not sharing all that she knows. In other words, she lied to Mirabel and did not try to talk to Mirabel afterwards.
In my opinion, I don\\\'t think gaslighting is truly in play here.
Lying... yes.
Failure to confide in Mirabel after Antonio\\\'s party... yes.
PoorCommunicationKills... yes.
But actual gaslighting... no.
