[003]
Cryocene
Current Version
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
The Diamond Realm\'s DLC does not mention Axiom created the other three Messiahs; Stephen explains in the main game that Messiahs are humans created by the Axiom meant to decide for its future and are essentially the way Axiom interacts with IV Apocalypse\'s cosmology. \'\'Then\'\', in the DLC Stephen outright mentions they, \
to:
The Diamond Realm\\\'s DLC does not mention Axiom created the other three Messiahs; Stephen explains in the main game that Messiahs are humans created by the Axiom meant to decide for its future and are essentially the way Axiom interacts with IV Apocalypse\\\'s cosmology. \\\'\\\'Then\\\'\\\', in the DLC Stephen outright mentions they, \\\"like you, are messiahs\\\" - so it\\\'s quite explicit.
Even if we assume that is not confirmation that the Axiom is present in multiple continuities, Stephen outright says the Goddess tried to prevent the Hero\\\'s soul from being taken out from the cycle of reincarnation, but she failed. It\\\'s quite explicit the Goddess can reach for a universe of a different cosmology. Then, \\\'\\\'Stephen himself\\\'\\\' can travel to a different cosmology. It\\\'s beyond explicit the Axiom\\\'s influence can go beyond just Apocalypse\\\'s cosmology.
But since we have reached this point, I propose a different sort of compromise from before. We cannot come to an agreement because either giving or not giving a definite distinction between Great Will and Axiom both create unnecessary speculations. Rather than going with just one of them, I say just specify both;
For Great Will\\\'s folder in this page, specify at the beginning;
Known as 大いなる意志 (in \\\'\\\'VideoGame/MegamiTenseiII\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'VideoGame/LastBible\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV\\\'\\\') and 大いなる意思 (in \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne\\\'\\\'), localized as \\\"Great Will\\\" in \\\'\\\'Nocturne\\\'\\\'.
Then add this trope;
* AmbiguousSituation: The entry of \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse\\\'\\\' introduces an entity named \\\"大いなる理\\\" (lit. Great Reason, Great Truth; localized into \\\"The Axiom\\\"), who governs over the game\\\'s universe using YHVH as its avatar and bestows humanity with Observation. The [[DownloadableContemt DLC]] Messiahs in the Diamond Realm expands on it by stating the [[PreviousPlayerCharacterCameo protagonists]] of \\\'\\\'I\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'II\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'III\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'IV\\\'\\\' are Messiahs it created to oppose the YHVH(s) ruling their respective universes, three of which are explicitly governed by the Great Will. This makes it somewhat unclear if the Axiom is supposed to be another name for the Great Will or a distinct entity with similar influence over the many different continuities within the \\\'\\\'Shin Megami Tensei\\\'\\\' franchise.
Similarly, on the Character page of \\\'\\\'Apocalypse\\\'\\\', we should add Axiom\\\'s folder (given as it turns out both the game and the artbook give enough details for it to have at least a few tropes), and similarly make it as clear as possible that it\\\'s currently \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' possible to determine whether Great Will and Axiom are the same.
Because this way, we wouldn\\\'t be treating any speculation as fact, but we will mention \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' the available details which support and contradict \\\'\\\'any\\\'\\\' speculations.
Even if we assume that is not confirmation that the Axiom is present in multiple continuities, Stephen outright says the Goddess tried to prevent the Hero\\\'s soul from being taken out from the cycle of reincarnation, but she failed. It\\\'s quite explicit the Goddess can reach for a universe of a different cosmology. Then, \\\'\\\'Stephen himself\\\'\\\' can travel to a different cosmology. It\\\'s beyond explicit the Axiom\\\'s influence can go beyond just Apocalypse\\\'s cosmology.
But since we have reached this point, I propose a different sort of compromise from before. We cannot come to an agreement because either giving or not giving a definite distinction between Great Will and Axiom both create unnecessary speculations. Rather than going with just one of them, I say just specify both;
For Great Will\\\'s folder in this page, specify at the beginning;
Known as 大いなる意志 (in \\\'\\\'VideoGame/MegamiTenseiII\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'VideoGame/LastBible\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV\\\'\\\') and 大いなる意思 (in \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne\\\'\\\'), localized as \\\"Great Will\\\" in \\\'\\\'Nocturne\\\'\\\'.
Then add this trope;
* AmbiguousSituation: The entry of \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse\\\'\\\' introduces an entity named \\\"大いなる理\\\" (lit. Great Reason, Great Truth; localized into \\\"The Axiom\\\"), who governs over the game\\\'s universe using YHVH as its avatar and bestows humanity with Observation. The [[DownloadableContemt DLC]] Messiahs in the Diamond Realm expands on it by stating the [[PreviousPlayerCharacterCameo protagonists]] of \\\'\\\'I\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'II\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'III\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'IV\\\'\\\' are Messiahs it created to oppose the YHVH(s) ruling their respective universes, three of which are explicitly governed by the Great Will. This makes it somewhat unclear if the Axiom is supposed to be another name for the Great Will or a distinct entity with similar influence over the many different continuities within the \\\'\\\'Shin Megami Tensei\\\'\\\' franchise.
Similarly, on the Character page of \\\'\\\'Apocalypse\\\'\\\', we should add Axiom\\\'s folder (given as it turns out both the game and the artbook give enough details for it to have at least a few tropes), and similarly make it as clear as possible that it\\\'s currently \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' possible to determine whether Great Will and Axiom are the same.
Because this way, we wouldn\\\'t be treating any speculation as fact, but we will mention \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' the available details which support and contradict \\\'\\\'any\\\'\\\' speculations.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
The Diamond Realm\'s DLC does not mention Axiom created the other three Messiahs; Stephen explains in the main game that Messiahs are humans created by the Axiom meant to decide for its future and are essentially the way Axiom interacts with IV Apocalypse\'s cosmology. \'\'Then\'\', in the DLC Stephen outright mentions they, \
to:
The Diamond Realm\\\'s DLC does not mention Axiom created the other three Messiahs; Stephen explains in the main game that Messiahs are humans created by the Axiom meant to decide for its future and are essentially the way Axiom interacts with IV Apocalypse\\\'s cosmology. \\\'\\\'Then\\\'\\\', in the DLC Stephen outright mentions they, \\\"like you, are messiahs\\\" - so it\\\'s quite explicit.
Even if we assume that is not confirmation that the Axiom is present in multiple continuities, Stephen outright says the Goddess tried to prevent the Hero\\\'s soul from being taken out from the cycle of reincarnation, but she failed. It\\\'s quite explicit the Goddess can reach for a universe of a different cosmology. Then, \\\'\\\'Stephen himself\\\'\\\' can travel to a different cosmology. It\\\'s beyond explicit the Axiom\\\'s influence can go beyond just Apocalypse\\\'s cosmology.
But since we have reached this point, I propose a different sort of compromise from before. We cannot come to an agreement because either giving or not giving a definite distinction between Great Will and Axiom both create unnecessary speculations. Rather than going with just one of them, I say just specify both;
For Great Will\\\'s folder in this page, specify at the beginning;
Known as 大いなる意志 (in \\\'\\\'VideoGame/MegamiTenseiII\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'VideoGame/LastBible\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV\\\'\\\') and 大いなる意思 (in \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne\\\'\\\'), localized as \\\"Great Will\\\" in \\\'\\\'Nocturne\\\'\\\'.
Then add this trope;
* AmbiguousSituation: The entry of \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse\\\'\\\' introduces an entity named \\\"大いなる理\\\" (lit. Great Reason, Great Truth; localized into \\\"The Axiom\\\"), who governs over the game\\\'s universe using YHVH as its avatar and bestows humanity with Observation. The [[DownloadableContemt DLC]] Messiahs in the Diamond Realm expands on it by stating the [[PreviousPlayerCharacterCameo protagonists]] of \\\'\\\'I\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'II\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'III\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'IV\\\'\\\' are Messiahs it created to oppose the YHVH(s) ruling their respective universes, three of which are explicitly governed by the Great Will. This makes it somewhat unclear if the Axiom is supposed to be another name for the Great Will or a distinct entity with similar influence over the many different continuities within the \\\'\\\'Shin Megami Tensei\\\'\\\' franchise.
Similarly, on the Character page of \\\'\\\'Apocalypse\\\'\\\', we should add Axiom\\\'s folder (given as it turns out both the game and the artbook give enough details for it to have at least a few tropes), and similarly make it as clear as possible that it\\\'s currently \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' possible to determine whether Great Will and Axiom are the same.
Because this way, we wouldn\\\'t be treating any speculation as fact, but we will mention \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' the available details which support and contradict \\\'\\\'any\\\'\\\' speculations.
Even if we assume that is not confirmation that the Axiom is present in multiple continuities, Stephen outright says the Goddess tried to prevent the Hero\\\'s soul from being taken out from the cycle of reincarnation, but she failed. It\\\'s quite explicit the Goddess can reach for a universe of a different cosmology. Then, \\\'\\\'Stephen himself\\\'\\\' can travel to a different cosmology. It\\\'s beyond explicit the Axiom\\\'s influence can go beyond just Apocalypse\\\'s cosmology.
But since we have reached this point, I propose a different sort of compromise from before. We cannot come to an agreement because either giving or not giving a definite distinction between Great Will and Axiom both create unnecessary speculations. Rather than going with just one of them, I say just specify both;
For Great Will\\\'s folder in this page, specify at the beginning;
Known as 大いなる意志 (in \\\'\\\'VideoGame/MegamiTenseiII\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'VideoGame/LastBible\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV\\\'\\\') and 大いなる意思 (in \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne\\\'\\\'), localized as \\\"Great Will\\\" in \\\'\\\'Nocturne\\\'\\\'.
Then add this trope;
* AmbiguousSituation: The entry of \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse\\\'\\\' introduces an entity named \\\"大いなる理\\\" (lit. Great Reason, Great Truth; localized into \\\"The Axiom\\\"), who governs over the game\\\'s universe using YHVH as its avatar and bestows humanity with Observation. The [[DownloadableContemt DLC]] Messiahs in the Diamond Realm expands on it by stating the [[PreviousPlayerCharacterCameo protagonists]] of \\\'\\\'I\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'II\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'III\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'IV\\\'\\\' are Messiahs it created to oppose the YHVH(s) ruling their respective universes, three of which are explicitly governed by the Great Will. This makes it somewhat unclear if the Axiom is supposed to be another name for the Great Will or a distinct entity with similar influence over the many different continuities within the \\\'\\\'Shin Megami Tensei\\\'\\\' franchise.
Similarly, on the Character page of \\\'\\\'Apocalypse\\\'\\\', we should add Axiom\\\'s folder (given as it turns out both the game and the artbook give enough details for it to have at least a few tropes), and similarly make it as clear as possible that it\\\'s currently \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' possible to determine whether Great Will and Axiom are the same.
Because this way, we wouldn\\\'t be treating any speculation as fact, but we will mention \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' the available details which support and contradict \\\'\\\'any\\\'\\\' speculations.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
The Diamond Realm\'s DLC does not mention Axiom created the other three Messiahs; Stephen explains in the main game that Messiahs are humans created by the Axiom meant to decide for its future and are essentially the way Axiom interacts with IV Apocalypse\'s cosmology. \'\'Then\'\', in the DLC Stephen outright mentions they, \
to:
The Diamond Realm\\\'s DLC does not mention Axiom created the other three Messiahs; Stephen explains in the main game that Messiahs are humans created by the Axiom meant to decide for its future and are essentially the way Axiom interacts with IV Apocalypse\\\'s cosmology. \\\'\\\'Then\\\'\\\', in the DLC Stephen outright mentions they, \\\"like you, are messiahs\\\" - so it\\\'s quite explicit.
Even if we assume that is not confirmation that the Axiom is present in multiple continuitoes, Stephen outright says the Goddess tried to prevent the Hero\\\'s soul from being taken out from the cycle of reincarnation, but she failed. It\\\'s quite explicit the Goddess can reach for a universe of a different cosmology. Then, \\\'\\\'Stephen himself\\\'\\\' can travel to a different cosmology. It\\\'s beyond explicit the Axiom\\\'s influence can go beyond just Apocalypse\\\'s cosmology.
But since we have reached this point, I propose a different sort of compromise from before. We cannot come to an agreement because either giving or not giving a definite distinction between Great Will and Axiom both create unnecessary speculations. Rather than going with just one of them, I say just specify both;
For Great Will\\\'s folder in this page, specify at the beginning;
Known as 大いなる意志 (in \\\'\\\'VideoGame/MegamiTenseiII\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'VideoGame/LastBible\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV\\\'\\\') and 大いなる意思 (in \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne\\\'\\\'), localized as \\\"Great Will\\\" in \\\'\\\'Nocturne\\\'\\\'.
Then add this trope;
* AmbiguousSituation: The entry of \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse\\\'\\\' introduces an entity named \\\"大いなる理\\\" (lit. Great Reason, Great Truth; localized into \\\"The Axiom\\\"), who governs over the game\\\'s universe using YHVH as its avatar and bestows humanity with Observation. The [[DownloadableContemt DLC]] Messiahs in the Diamond Realm expands on it by stating the [[PreviousPlayerCharacterCameo protagonists]] of \\\'\\\'I\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'II\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'III\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'IV\\\'\\\' are Messiahs it created to oppose the YHVH(s) ruling their respective universes, three of which are explicitly governed by the Great Will. This makes it somewhat unclear if the Axiom is supposed to be another name for the Great Will or a distinct entity with similar influence over the many different continuities within the \\\'\\\'Shin Megami Tensei\\\'\\\' franchise.
Similarly, on the Character page of \\\'\\\'Apocalypse\\\'\\\', we should add Axiom\\\'s folder (given as it turns out both the game and the artbook give enough details for it to have at least a few tropes), and similarly make it as clear as possible that it\\\'s currently \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' possible to determine whether Great Will and Axiom are the same.
Because this way, we wouldn\\\'t be treating any speculation as fact, but we will mention \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' the available details which support and contradict \\\'\\\'any\\\'\\\' speculations.
Even if we assume that is not confirmation that the Axiom is present in multiple continuitoes, Stephen outright says the Goddess tried to prevent the Hero\\\'s soul from being taken out from the cycle of reincarnation, but she failed. It\\\'s quite explicit the Goddess can reach for a universe of a different cosmology. Then, \\\'\\\'Stephen himself\\\'\\\' can travel to a different cosmology. It\\\'s beyond explicit the Axiom\\\'s influence can go beyond just Apocalypse\\\'s cosmology.
But since we have reached this point, I propose a different sort of compromise from before. We cannot come to an agreement because either giving or not giving a definite distinction between Great Will and Axiom both create unnecessary speculations. Rather than going with just one of them, I say just specify both;
For Great Will\\\'s folder in this page, specify at the beginning;
Known as 大いなる意志 (in \\\'\\\'VideoGame/MegamiTenseiII\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'VideoGame/LastBible\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiII\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiV\\\'\\\') and 大いなる意思 (in \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIIINocturne\\\'\\\'), localized as \\\"Great Will\\\" in \\\'\\\'Nocturne\\\'\\\'.
Then add this trope;
* AmbiguousSituation: The entry of \\\'\\\'VideoGame/ShinMegamiTenseiIVApocalypse\\\'\\\' introduces an entity named \\\"大いなる理\\\" (lit. Great Reason, Great Truth; localized into \\\"The Axiom\\\"), who governs over the game\\\'s universe using YHVH as its avatar and bestows humanity with Observation. The [[DownloadableContemt DLC]] Messiahs in the Diamond Realm expands on it by stating the [[PreviousPlayerCharacterCameo protagonists]] of \\\'\\\'I\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'II\\\'\\\', \\\'\\\'III\\\'\\\' and \\\'\\\'IV\\\'\\\' are Messiahs it created to oppose the YHVH(s) ruling their respective universes, three of which are explicitly governed by the Great Will. This makes it somewhat unclear if the Axiom is supposed to be another name for the Great Will or a distinct entity with similar influence over the many different continuities within the \\\'\\\'Shin Megami Tensei\\\'\\\' franchise.
Similarly, on the Character page of \\\'\\\'Apocalypse\\\'\\\', we should add Axiom\\\'s folder (given as it turns out both the game and the artbook give enough details for it to have at least a few tropes), and similarly make it as clear as possible that it\\\'s currently \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' possible to determine whether Great Will and Axiom are the same.
Because this way, we wouldn\\\'t be treating any speculation as fact, but we will mention \\\'\\\'all\\\'\\\' the available details which support and contradict \\\'\\\'any\\\'\\\' speculations.
