Discussion History WesternAnimation / RayaAndTheLastDragon

I personally just don\\\'t see \\\"this convoluted thing commonly happens in animated movies\\\" as an exact enough set up for SRO. Ideally it should be is one pinpointable \\\'\\\'moment\\\'\\\' where one pinpointable convention is subverted.
* ShamingTheMob: I can see an argument for \\\"trying to calm a crowd and then someone shoots you\\\". But while someone shooting you is \\\'\\\'surprising\\\'\\\', is it really \\\'\\\'realistic\\\'\\\'? TalkingIsAFreeAction has its subversions, see the example on \\\'\\\'The Incredibles\\\'\\\' on that page.
* \\\"It\\\'s surprising to have a female protagonist that has a visible trauma response and in a Disney movie no less.\\\" The entry is all about her IWorkAlone attitude. That very trope ([[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1604333726076808500&page=1 also under TRS]]) admits that it is often a trait the character grows out of (we also have IneffectualLoner). \\\"Raya undergoes CharacterDevelopment, even if it is \\\'\\\'realistic growth\\\'\\\'\\\", is not a \\\'\\\'surprisingly\\\'\\\' realistic outcome. You may have been surprised that she ended up surly, but this also came out the same week as the WandaVision finale (Woman Having A Trauma Response: The Show), so YMMV.
* \\\"No chief claims responsibility for helping bring about the apocalypse\\\" is honestly a premise that is so fantastic it is impossible to say what a \\\"realistic\\\" outcome for this would be. [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Series.WandaVision#comment-127955 See this discussion]]. (Also: are they really BigBad and TheDragon? She is an antagonist, but not \\\'\\\'the\\\'\\\' overarching antagonist of the story required to be BB. Ergo she\\\'s not a deconstruction of one either.)
* Raya losing to Namaari: Maybe. I don\\\'t really care about whether or not it\\\'s FridgeBrilliance, but it\\\'s not an example of SRO if you\\\'re surprised but you have to think of an extratextual reason she might\\\'ve lost.

I personally just don\\\'t see \\\"this convoluted thing commonly happens in animated movies\\\" as an exact enough set up for SRO. Ideally it should be is one pinpointable \\\'\\\'moment\\\'\\\' where one pinpointable convention is subverted.
* ShamingTheMob: I can see an argument for \\\"trying to calm a crowd and then someone shoots you\\\". But while someone shooting you is \\\'\\\'surprising\\\'\\\', is it really \\\'\\\'realistic\\\'\\\'? TalkingIsAFreeAction has its subversions, see the example on \\\'\\\'The Incredibles\\\'\\\' on that page.
* \\\"It\\\'s surprising to have a female protagonist that has a visible trauma response and in a Disney movie no less.\\\" The entry is all about her IWorkAlone attitude. That very trope ([[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1604333726076808500&page=1 also under TRS]]) admits that it is a trait the character grows out of. \\\"Raya undergoes CharacterDevelopment, even if it is \\\'\\\'realistic growth\\\'\\\'\\\", is not a \\\'\\\'surprisingly\\\'\\\' realistic outcome. You may have been surprised that she ended up surly, but this also came out the same week as the WandaVision finale (Woman Having A Trauma Response: The Show), so YMMV.
* \\\"No chief claims responsibility for helping bring about the apocalypse\\\" is honestly a premise that is so fantastic it is impossible to say what a \\\"realistic\\\" outcome for this would be. [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Series.WandaVision#comment-127955 See this discussion]]. (Also: are they really BigBad and TheDragon? She is an antagonist, but not \\\'\\\'the\\\'\\\' overarching antagonist of the story required to be BB. Ergo she\\\'s not a deconstruction of one either.)
* Raya losing to Namaari: Maybe. I don\\\'t really care about whether or not it\\\'s FridgeBrilliance, but it\\\'s not an example of SRO if you\\\'re surprised but you have to think of an extratextual reason she might\\\'ve lost.

I personally just don\\\'t see \\\"this convoluted thing commonly happens in animated movies\\\" as an exact enough set up for SRO. Ideally it should be is one pinpointable \\\'\\\'moment\\\'\\\' where one pinpointable convention is subverted.
* ShamingTheMob: I can see an argument for \\\"trying to calm a crowd and then someone shoots you\\\". But while someone shooting you is \\\'\\\'surprising\\\'\\\', is it really \\\'\\\'unrealistic\\\'\\\'? TalkingIsAFreeAction has its subversions, see the example on \\\'\\\'The Incredibles\\\'\\\' on that page.
* \\\"It\\\'s surprising to have a female protagonist that has a visible trauma response and in a Disney movie no less.\\\" The entry is all about her IWorkAlone attitude. That very trope ([[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1604333726076808500&page=1 also under TRS]]) admits that it is a trait the character grows out of. \\\"Raya undergoes CharacterDevelopment, even if it is \\\'\\\'realistic growth\\\'\\\'\\\", is not a \\\'\\\'surprisingly\\\'\\\' realistic outcome. You may have been surprised that she ended up surly, but this also came out the same week as the WandaVision finale (Woman Having A Trauma Response: The Show), so YMMV.
* \\\"No chief claims responsibility for helping bring about the apocalypse\\\" is honestly a premise that is so fantastic it is impossible to say what a \\\"realistic\\\" outcome for this would be. [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Series.WandaVision#comment-127955 See this discussion]]. (Also: are they really BigBad and TheDragon? She is an antagonist, but not \\\'\\\'the\\\'\\\' overarching antagonist of the story required to be BB. Ergo she\\\'s not a deconstruction of one either.)
* Raya losing to Namaari: Maybe. I don\\\'t really care about whether or not it\\\'s FridgeBrilliance, but it\\\'s not an example of SRO if you\\\'re surprised but you have to think of an extratextual reason she might\\\'ve lost.

I personally just don\\\'t see \\\"this convoluted thing commonly happens in animated movies\\\" as an exact enough set up for SRO. Ideally it should be is one pinpointable \\\'\\\'moment\\\'\\\' where one pinpointable convention is subverted.
* ShamingTheMob: I can see an argument for \\\"trying to calm a crowd and then someone shoots you\\\". But is someone shooting you really \\\'\\\'unrealistic\\\'\\\'? TalkingIsAFreeAction has its subversions, see the example on \\\'\\\'The Incredibles\\\'\\\' on that page.
* \\\"It\\\'s surprising to have a female protagonist that has a visible trauma response and in a Disney movie no less.\\\" The entry is all about her IWorkAlone attitude. That very trope ([[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=1604333726076808500&page=1 also under TRS]]) admits that it is a trait the character grows out of. \\\"Raya undergoes CharacterDevelopment, even if it is \\\'\\\'realistic growth\\\'\\\'\\\", is not a \\\'\\\'surprisingly\\\'\\\' realistic outcome. You may have been surprised that she ended up surly, but this also came out the same week as the WandaVision finale (Woman Having A Trauma Response: The Show), so YMMV.
* \\\"No chief claims responsibility for helping bring about the apocalypse\\\" is honestly a premise that is so fantastic it is impossible to say what a \\\"realistic\\\" outcome for this would be. [[https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/remarks.php?trope=Series.WandaVision#comment-127955 See this discussion]]. (Also: are they really BigBad and TheDragon? She is an antagonist, but not \\\'\\\'the\\\'\\\' overarching antagonist of the story required to be BB. Ergo she\\\'s not a deconstruction of one either.)
* Raya losing to Namaari: Maybe. I don\\\'t really care about whether or not it\\\'s FridgeBrilliance, but it\\\'s not an example of SRO if you\\\'re surprised but you have to think of an extratextual reason she might\\\'ve lost.