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Discussion History Literature / RWBYBeforeTheDawn

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[008] Wyldchyld Current Version
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At the start of the book, Sun learns from Yatsu and Velvet that his team doesn\'t trust him. He is really surprised by this. He didn\'t know they didn\'t trust him. Throughout the book, we see that he knows he struggles to form attachments, that he has a habit of moving on to avoid attachments getting to deep, that he doesn\'t like being defined as part of a whole (rather than as an individual). He knows this means he\'s not dependable. What he doesn\'t understand is how this affects his team-mates, and that\'s why he doesn\'t understand the depth of their hurt. He has to learn they don\'t trust him, that they feel they\'re not good enough for him. He has to learn that they can\'t just get together as a group, do something together as a foursome, and that clears the air. He has to learn that they need to actually talk through their problems, that they want to be consulted on decisions that affect the team, that he values their input, that they want to support, that they know he wants them to support him.
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At the start of the book, Sun learns from Yatsu and Velvet that his team doesn\\\'t trust him. He is really surprised by this. He didn\\\'t know they didn\\\'t trust him. Throughout the book, we see that he knows he struggles to form attachments, that he has a habit of moving on to avoid attachments getting too deep, that he doesn\\\'t like being defined as part of a whole (rather than as an individual). He knows this means he\\\'s not dependable. What he doesn\\\'t understand is how this affects his team-mates, and that\\\'s why he doesn\\\'t understand the depth of their hurt. He has to learn they don\\\'t trust him, that they feel they\\\'re not good enough for him. He has to learn that they can\\\'t just get together as a group, do something together as a foursome, and that clears the air. He has to learn that they need to actually talk through their problems, that they want to be consulted on decisions that affect the team, that he values their input, that they want to support him, that they know he wants them to support him.
Changed line(s) 9 from:
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At the start of the book, Sun learns from Yatsu and Velvet that his team doesn\'t trust him. He is really surprised by this. He didn\'t know they didn\'t trust him. Throughout the book, we see that he knows he struggles to form attachments, that he has a habit of moving on to avoid attachments getting to deep, that he doesn\'t like being defined as part of a whole (rather than as an individual). He knows this means he\'s not dependable. What he doesn\'t understand is how this affects his team-mates, and that\'s why he doesn\'t understand the depth of their hurt. He has to learn they don\'t trust him, that they feel they\'re not good enough for him. He has to learn that they can\'t just get together as a group, do something together as a foursome, and that clears the air. He has to learn that they need to actually talk through their problems, that they want to be consulted on decisions that affect the team, that he values their input.
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At the start of the book, Sun learns from Yatsu and Velvet that his team doesn\\\'t trust him. He is really surprised by this. He didn\\\'t know they didn\\\'t trust him. Throughout the book, we see that he knows he struggles to form attachments, that he has a habit of moving on to avoid attachments getting to deep, that he doesn\\\'t like being defined as part of a whole (rather than as an individual). He knows this means he\\\'s not dependable. What he doesn\\\'t understand is how this affects his team-mates, and that\\\'s why he doesn\\\'t understand the depth of their hurt. He has to learn they don\\\'t trust him, that they feel they\\\'re not good enough for him. He has to learn that they can\\\'t just get together as a group, do something together as a foursome, and that clears the air. He has to learn that they need to actually talk through their problems, that they want to be consulted on decisions that affect the team, that he values their input, that they want to support, that they know he wants them to support him.
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With regards to the novel, Sun never forgets that he\'d felt he\'d been a bad leader, it tells us that his Vacuan attitude about solving problems (get over it, move on) is making the problem worse, not fixing it. The book tells that Sun understood they were upset, but that he had expected them to have moved on from that upset by now. What\'s puzzling him is that he doesn\'t understand why they\'re staying upset.
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With regards to the novel, Sun never forgets that he\\\'d felt he\\\'d been a bad leader, it tells us that his Vacuan attitude about solving problems (move on, don\\\'t dwell) is making the problem worse, not fixing it. The book tells that Sun understood they were upset, but that he had expected them to have moved on from that upset by now. What\\\'s puzzling him is that he doesn\\\'t understand why they\\\'re staying upset.
Changed line(s) 7 from:
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With regards to the novel, Sun never forgets that he\'d felt he\'d been a bad leader, it tells us that his Vacuan attitude about solving problems is making the problem worse, not fixing it. The book tells that Sun understood they were upset, but that he had expected them to have moved on from that upset by now. What\'s puzzling him is that he doesn\'t understand why they\'re staying upset.
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With regards to the novel, Sun never forgets that he\\\'d felt he\\\'d been a bad leader, it tells us that his Vacuan attitude about solving problems (get over it, move on) is making the problem worse, not fixing it. The book tells that Sun understood they were upset, but that he had expected them to have moved on from that upset by now. What\\\'s puzzling him is that he doesn\\\'t understand why they\\\'re staying upset.
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With regards to the novel, Sun never forgets that he felt he needed to be a better leader to his team, it tells us that his Vacuan attitude about solving problems is making the problem worse, not fixing it. The book tells that Sun understood they were upset, but that he had expected them to have moved on from that upset by now. What\'s puzzling him is that he doesn\'t understand why they\'re staying upset.
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With regards to the novel, Sun never forgets that he\\\'d felt he\\\'d been a bad leader, it tells us that his Vacuan attitude about solving problems is making the problem worse, not fixing it. The book tells that Sun understood they were upset, but that he had expected them to have moved on from that upset by now. What\\\'s puzzling him is that he doesn\\\'t understand why they\\\'re staying upset.
Changed line(s) 7 from:
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With regards to the novel, Sun never forgets that he felt he needed to be a better leader to his team, it tells us that his Vacuan attitude about solving problems is making the problem worse, not fixing it. The book tells that Sun understood they were upset, but that he had expected them to have moved on from that upset by. What\'s puzzling him is that he doesn\'t understand why they\'re staying upset.
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With regards to the novel, Sun never forgets that he felt he needed to be a better leader to his team, it tells us that his Vacuan attitude about solving problems is making the problem worse, not fixing it. The book tells that Sun understood they were upset, but that he had expected them to have moved on from that upset by now. What\\\'s puzzling him is that he doesn\\\'t understand why they\\\'re staying upset.
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The book does not portray him as NeverMyFault (from an audience perspective; some characters do think he\'s this). What it does is portray him as TheUnapologetic and PoorCommunicationKills, while using him to deconstruct TheDulcineaEffect.
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The book does not portray him as NeverMyFault (from an audience perspective; some characters do think he\\\'s this). What it does is portray him as TheUnapologetic (about the stuff that matters) and PoorCommunicationKills, while using him to deconstruct TheDulcineaEffect.
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The problem is that you\'ve said that Sun\'s made it clear that he\'s been a \'horrible leader and needs to improve\'. Now, as your quote shows, that\'s not quite what he says. He doesn say he\'s been a horrible leader, but he doesn\'t say he needs to improve. He doesn\'t actually talk about improving at all. What he says is that both he and the guys are cool with a short hiatus. So, if they\'re all cool with it, what exactly does he mean by \'horrible leader\'? We don\'t know. That\'s where the fandom starts having to interpret what he means by that. We also have to interpret what he means by \'gotta make up for lost time\' because, again, that\'s not claiming he\'s going to improve as a leader: we do have a couple of clues from what he says (showing the guys around his old stomping grounds, training them to deal with the Wastelands), none of which is about him improving as a leader unless we decide to start projecting onto the scene ([=WMG=], in other words) how leadership improvement could tie into showing the guys round Vacuo and training for the Wastelands.
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The problem is that you\\\'ve said that Sun\\\'s made it clear that he\\\'s been a \\\'horrible leader and needs to improve\\\'. Now, as your quote shows, that\\\'s not quite what he says. He certainly does say he\\\'s been a horrible leader, but he doesn\\\'t say he needs to improve. He doesn\\\'t actually talk about improving at all. What he says is that both he and the guys are cool with a short hiatus. So, if they\\\'re all cool with it, what exactly does he mean by \\\'horrible leader\\\'? We don\\\'t know. That\\\'s where the fandom starts having to interpret what he means by that. We also have to interpret what he means by \\\'gotta make up for lost time\\\' because, again, that\\\'s not claiming he\\\'s going to improve as a leader: we do have a couple of clues from what he says (showing the guys around his old stomping grounds, training them to deal with the Wastelands), none of which is about him improving as a leader unless we decide to start projecting onto the scene ([=WMG=], in other words) how leadership improvement could tie into showing the guys round Vacuo and training for the Wastelands.
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