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Discussion History Characters / StreetFighter

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[005] immichan Current Version
5th Feb '20 at 05:51:20 PM
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
\
to:
\\\"MindlinkMates: they are not lovers.

RaisedByRobots: droids are not his primary caretakers.\\\"


Tropers/Asherinka re-added them with these reasons--

\\\"RaisedByRobots: The trope page specifically States that the trope applies in cases of ParentalNeglect, I believe the example is fine.

MindlinkMates: I think this one is fine as well. The trope is not about whether they sleep together, they are in love and they share a mind link, so it fits.\\\"


I do not agree with re-adding them as they rely on SpeculativeTroping. RaisedByRobots is described as having robots as a primary caretaker or in cases of ParentalNeglect. Little Ben does have a droid babysitter in Last Shot at times when neither parent is available, and in one instance this droid babysitter passes responsibility to a different droid ill-equipped for the job. However, this is only depicted in this one book. We do not know from this that Ben had droids as his caretakers for the rest of his childhood, that he had droid caretakers more often than his parents or other sentient beings, or that he was neglected by his parents. We DO know in The Last Jedi novelization that he had feelings of abandonment, but not WHY he had those feelings. People have extrapolated \\\"he was neglected\\\" and \\\"his parents left him with droids all the time\\\" from instances like these, and from some comments by Adam Driver, but we really do not have enough from this time period to know the actual story. (This might be a disagreement over the meaning of \\\"raised\\\" and \\\"caretaker\\\" too!)

As for MindlinkMates, the troper wrote \\\"With Rey. Their PsychicLink grows stronger over the course of the trilogy, and they are confirmed to be in mutual love in The Rise of Skywalker.\\\" Certainly they have a PsychicLink! But in TLJ it is unwanted by both parties until Rey seeks Kylo to discuss the mirror cave, and she ends the film metaphorically (but not effectively) cutting it off. In TROS Kylo uses it to stalk Rey and make unwanted contact with her. She responds by attacking him and tells him she does not want it. It is not depicted in a romantic way and they are never presented in a romantic relationship. For the vast majority of TROS, it is sinister; at the end, it becomes a tactical advantage. But it is never presented as a romantic link. Likewise, they are not depicted as being \\\"in mutual love\\\" and this is not \\\"confirmed\\\". Rey says she wanted to take Ben\\\'s hand, and they kiss before he dies from sacrificing his life to revive her. Shippers have insisted they are \\\"in love\\\". Possibly they could have entered a romantic relationship if he had lived, but they never had one. I believe MindlinkMates relies upon the story treating the PsychicLink romantically such as having love scenes and the \\\"mates\\\" having a romantic relationship.
[004] immichan
5th Feb '20 at 05:48:16 PM
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
\
to:
\\\"MindlinkMates: they are not lovers.

RaisedByRobots: droids are not his primary caretakers.\\\"


Tropers/Asherinka re-added them with these reasons--

\\\"RaisedByRobots: The trope page specifically States that the trope applies in cases of ParentalNeglect, I believe the example is fine.

MindlinkMates: I think this one is fine as well. The trope is not about whether they sleep together, they are in love and they share a mind link, so it fits.\\\"


I do not agree with re-adding them as they rely on SpeculativeTroping. RaisedByRobots is described as having robots as a primary caretaker or in cases of ParentalNeglect. Little Ben does have a droid babysitter in Last Shot at times when neither parent is available, and in one instance this droid babysitter passes responsibility to a different droid ill-equipped for the job. However, this is only depicted in this one book. We do not know from this that Ben had droid babysitters for the rest of his childhood or that he was neglected by his parents. We DO know in The Last Jedi novelization that he had feelings of abandonment, but not WHY he had those feelings. People have extrapolated \\\"he was neglected\\\" and \\\"his parents left him with droids all the time\\\" from instances like these, and from some comments by Adam Driver, but we really do not have enough from this time period to know the actual story. (This might be a disagreement over the meaning of \\\"raised\\\" and \\\"caretaker\\\" too!)

As for MindlinkMates, the troper wrote \\\"With Rey. Their PsychicLink grows stronger over the course of the trilogy, and they are confirmed to be in mutual love in The Rise of Skywalker.\\\" Certainly they have a PsychicLink! But in TLJ it is unwanted by both parties until Rey seeks Kylo to discuss the mirror cave, and she ends the film metaphorically (but not effectively) cutting it off. In TROS Kylo uses it to stalk Rey and make unwanted contact with her. She responds by attacking him and tells him she does not want it. It is not depicted in a romantic way and they are never presented in a romantic relationship. For the vast majority of TROS, it is sinister; at the end, it becomes a tactical advantage. But it is never presented as a romantic link. Likewise, they are not depicted as being \\\"in mutual love\\\" and this is not \\\"confirmed\\\". Rey says she wanted to take Ben\\\'s hand, and they kiss before he dies from sacrificing his life to revive her. Shippers have insisted they are \\\"in love\\\". Possibly they could have entered a romantic relationship if he had lived, but they never had one. I believe MindlinkMates relies upon the story treating the PsychicLink romantically such as having love scenes and the \\\"mates\\\" having a romantic relationship.
[003] immichan
5th Feb '20 at 05:31:44 PM
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
MindlinkMates: they are not lovers.
to:
\\\"MindlinkMates: they are not lovers.
Changed line(s) 7 from:
n
RaisedByRobots: droids are not his primary caretakers.
to:
RaisedByRobots: droids are not his primary caretakers.\\\"
Changed line(s) 12 from:
n
RaisedByRobots: The trope page specifically States that the trope applies in cases of ParentalNeglect, I believe the example is fine.
to:
\\\"RaisedByRobots: The trope page specifically States that the trope applies in cases of ParentalNeglect, I believe the example is fine.
Changed line(s) 14 from:
n
MindlinkMates: I think this one is fine as well. The trope is not about whether they sleep together, they are in love and they share a mind link, so it fits.
to:
MindlinkMates: I think this one is fine as well. The trope is not about whether they sleep together, they are in love and they share a mind link, so it fits.\\\"
Changed line(s) 17 from:
n
I do not agree with re-adding them as they rely on SpeculativeTroping. RaisedByRobots is described as having robots as a primary caretaker or in cases of ParentalNeglect. Little Ben does have a droid babysitter in Last Shot at times when neither parent is available, and in one instance this droid babysitter passes responsibility to a different droid ill-equipped for the job. However, this is only depicted in this one book. We do not know from this that Ben had droid babysitters for the rest of his childhood or that he was neglected by his parents. We DO know in The Last Jedi novelization that he had feelings of abandonment, but not WHY he had those feelings. People have extrapolated \
to:
I do not agree with re-adding them as they rely on SpeculativeTroping. RaisedByRobots is described as having robots as a primary caretaker or in cases of ParentalNeglect. Little Ben does have a droid babysitter in Last Shot at times when neither parent is available, and in one instance this droid babysitter passes responsibility to a different droid ill-equipped for the job. However, this is only depicted in this one book. We do not know from this that Ben had droid babysitters for the rest of his childhood or that he was neglected by his parents. We DO know in The Last Jedi novelization that he had feelings of abandonment, but not WHY he had those feelings. People have extrapolated \\\"he was neglected\\\" and \\\"his parents left him with droids all the time\\\" from instances like these, and from some comments by Adam Driver, but we really do not have enough from this time period to know the actual story.

As for MindlinkMates, the troper wrote \\\"With Rey. Their PsychicLink grows stronger over the course of the trilogy, and they are confirmed to be in mutual love in The Rise of Skywalker.\\\" Certainly they have a PsychicLink! But in TLJ it is unwanted by both parties until Rey seeks Kylo to discuss the mirror cave, and she ends the film metaphorically (but not effectively) cutting it off. In TROS Kylo uses it to stalk Rey and make unwanted contact with her. She responds by attacking him and tells him she does not want it. It is not depicted in a romantic way and they are never presented in a romantic relationship. For the vast majority of TROS, it is sinister; at the end, it becomes a tactical advantage. But it is never presented as a romantic link. Likewise, they are not depicted as being \\\"in mutual love\\\" and this is not \\\"confirmed\\\". Rey says she wanted to take Ben\\\'s hand, and they kiss before he dies from sacrificing his life to revive her. Shippers have insisted they are \\\"in love\\\". Possibly they could have entered a romantic relationship if he had lived, but they never had one. I believe MindlinkMates relies upon the story treating the PsychicLink romantically such as having love scenes and the \\\"mates\\\" having a romantic relationship.
[002] DarthEnderX
22nd Mar '19 at 12:58:46 PM
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
Which would be fine, if there was value to the images. For example, the character images themselves add value because knowing a character\'s appearance can give you a better understanding of a character and it\'s tropes. Likewise, knowing where a character is from can give you a better understanding of a character and it\'s tropes. But that information is already conveyed through the \
to:
Which would be fine, if there was value to the images. For example, the character images themselves add value because knowing a character\\\'s appearance can give you a better understanding of a character and it\\\'s tropes. Likewise, knowing where a character is from can give you a better understanding of a character and it\\\'s tropes. But that information is already conveyed through the \\\"Origins\\\" field. Knowing the flag\\\'s appearance of a character\\\'s country doesn\\\'t give you any new information about the character. And as a way of conveying the character\\\'s origin, it\\\'s redundant to the \\\"Origins\\\" field, and also worse at it, as the flag only conveys that information if the reader already knows what country a given flag belongs to.

As for the argument that flags are a prominent part of the series, the games themselves haven\\\'t used flags since SF2, some 25+ years ago. Many of the flags on these pages have never actually been associated with the characters in the games. There\\\'s also the fact that user lexii started adding them to games such as Art of Fighting and Samurai Shodown, games that never had a focus on character flags to begin with. So I don\\\'t know what the excuse is there.

So despite all these reasons I have for not wanting the flags to be there, I\\\'m not insisting that they be removed entirely. My compromise, which can be viewed in the Art of Fighting character page, is to put the flag images behind a clickable Note next to the Origin, so that the flags are still there, and still easily viewable to anyone that really wants to know what they look like. But they aren\\\'t automatically visible, adding to the overall clutter of the page.

tl:dr, they make the page look sloppy, they take up viewable real estate while providing no additional information, they should be hidden behind notes.
[001] DarthEnderX
22nd Mar '19 at 12:55:59 PM
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
Which would be fine, if there was value to the images. For example, the character images themselves add value because knowing a character\'s appearance can give you a better understanding of a character and it\'s tropes. Likewise, knowing where a character is from can give you a better understanding of a character and it\'s tropes. But that information is already conveyed through the \
to:
Which would be fine, if there was value to the images. For example, the character images themselves add value because knowing a character\\\'s appearance can give you a better understanding of a character and it\\\'s tropes. Likewise, knowing where a character is from can give you a better understanding of a character and it\\\'s tropes. But that information is already conveyed through the \\\"Origins\\\" field. Knowing the flag\\\'s appearance of a character\\\'s country doesn\\\'t give you any new information about the character. And as a way of conveying the character\\\'s origin, it\\\'s redundant to the \\\"Origins\\\" field, and also worse at is, as they flag only conveys that information of the reader already knows what country a given flag belongs to.

As for the argument that flags are a prominent part of the series, the games themselves haven\\\'t used flags since SF2, some 25+ years ago. Many of the flags on these pages have never actually been associated witht he characters in the games. There\\\'s also the fact that user lexii started adding them to games such as Art of Fighting and Samurai Shodown, games that never had a focus on character flags to begin with. So I don\\\'t know what the excuse is there.

So despite all these reasons I have for not wanting the flags to be there, I\\\'m not insisting that they be removed entirely. My compromise, which can be viewed in the Art of Fighting character page, is to put the flag images behind a Note clicking next to the Origin, so that the flags are still there, and still easily viewable to anyone that really wants to know what they look like. But they aren\\\'t automatically visible, adding to the overall clutter of the page.

tl:dr, they make the page look sloppy, they take up view real estate while providing no additional information, they should be hidden behind notes.

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