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The fact that the show chooses to portray Framework!Fitz and
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The fact that the show chooses to portray Framework!Fitz and \"realFitz\" as two different people doesn\'t mean they are. Evidence? If Framework!Fitz dies, \"realFitz\" also dies, because they are the same person. He is Fitz, but with a different personality because of his memories. And yes, it is used as an excuse in Fitz favor because it is used as a justification for why Fitz shouldn\'t and doesn\'t face punishment. And for the record, no Simmons was not portrayed as being in the wrong for attempting to kill Ward, and Ward only rejoined HYDRA at the moment to continue helping Coulson, he stated as much during his phone call with Skye after dropping off Bakshi.
> You claim that real!Fitz and framework!Fitz are the same, but both the story and characters treat them as different. You also push the fact that it is about the backstories, which is blatantly false. Fitz\'s situation has nothing to do with his fake backstory, but rather that he is in truth a different person. That\'s how the show portrays it.
Which is what I\'m arguing. The story portraying Fitz as being a different person is another aspect of MoralDissonance and ProtagonistCenteredMorality of the show. You cannot say to your enemies that your life does not define who you are or become, but then turn around and say that your friends aren\'t themselves because their lives made them different people. It\'s hypocritical and self-serving.
@Tuvok
Except that, A) Framework!Ward lived a different life than Ward, since he was thought by Victoria Hand, and not Garrett, B) The events that played out with Ward were mostly due to Garrett being dead due to Coulson having never joined SHIELD, meaning someone else came to recruit Ward, B) With Framework!Ward, you actually have a case of saying he is an NPC, since realWard is dead, whereas Framework!Fitz and \"realFitz\" are the same person, because if Framework!Fitz dies, \"realFitz\" also dies, showing it is the same person, just with a different attitude because of a different life. Whereas Framework Ward could be compared to a clone or robot modeled after an individual (which you could heavily make the case for being a different person thn the original), Fitz is more akin to a person who has amnesia (which is the same person, just with a different or lack of memories). Fitz, regardless of his memories, had the ability to not pull the trigger on Agnes, or torture people, or kill Mace, and still chose to do so, anyway.
And the team had already make it clear multiple times that, no matter what, even if Ward genuinely regretted his actions, he was never going to be forgiven.
And last but not least, what makes this hypocritical is the justifications that the protagonists use for the punishment of the first but lack of punishment for the latter. They argue that a person\'s life does not define them or affect their ability to chose, which is why Ward needs to be held accountable. But the moment Fitz lives a different life, they immediately argue that it isn\'t his fault because his life made him into a different person and affected his ability to choose, which is completely contradictory to what they initially preached. These are literally two polar opposite ideologies that the protagonists are holding simultaneously to justify punishing their enemy but exonerating their friend.
> You claim that real!Fitz and framework!Fitz are the same, but both the story and characters treat them as different. You also push the fact that it is about the backstories, which is blatantly false. Fitz\'s situation has nothing to do with his fake backstory, but rather that he is in truth a different person. That\'s how the show portrays it.
Which is what I\'m arguing. The story portraying Fitz as being a different person is another aspect of MoralDissonance and ProtagonistCenteredMorality of the show. You cannot say to your enemies that your life does not define who you are or become, but then turn around and say that your friends aren\'t themselves because their lives made them different people. It\'s hypocritical and self-serving.
@Tuvok
Except that, A) Framework!Ward lived a different life than Ward, since he was thought by Victoria Hand, and not Garrett, B) The events that played out with Ward were mostly due to Garrett being dead due to Coulson having never joined SHIELD, meaning someone else came to recruit Ward, B) With Framework!Ward, you actually have a case of saying he is an NPC, since realWard is dead, whereas Framework!Fitz and \"realFitz\" are the same person, because if Framework!Fitz dies, \"realFitz\" also dies, showing it is the same person, just with a different attitude because of a different life. Whereas Framework Ward could be compared to a clone or robot modeled after an individual (which you could heavily make the case for being a different person thn the original), Fitz is more akin to a person who has amnesia (which is the same person, just with a different or lack of memories). Fitz, regardless of his memories, had the ability to not pull the trigger on Agnes, or torture people, or kill Mace, and still chose to do so, anyway.
And the team had already make it clear multiple times that, no matter what, even if Ward genuinely regretted his actions, he was never going to be forgiven.
And last but not least, what makes this hypocritical is the justifications that the protagonists use for the punishment of the first but lack of punishment for the latter. They argue that a person\'s life does not define them or affect their ability to chose, which is why Ward needs to be held accountable. But the moment Fitz lives a different life, they immediately argue that it isn\'t his fault because his life made him into a different person and affected his ability to choose, which is completely contradictory to what they initially preached. These are literally two polar opposite ideologies that the protagonists are holding simultaneously to justify punishing their enemy but exonerating their friend.
