Rename: Banned In China

Even though China is notorious for their bans, to sweep every ban in every country under the "Banned in China" banner is still stereotyping, a misrepresentation. I don't believe TV Tropes condone such a thing?

Stereotypes are kind of what we do here actually. We categorize them meticulously in fact. It's not the entirety of what we do, but it's certainly part of it. This is not wikipedia. We don't require everything to be completely neutral. And honestly, as stereotypes go, this isn't an untrue one considering the Great Firewall and a number of other Chinese takes on censorship.

edited 16th Jun '10 9:35:53 AM by shimaspawn

It's no more sterotyping than Big in Japan or Germans Love David Hasselhoff. What was done with all three of these titles is a well-known example was used for the trope title.

Banned in China is about countries banning media, with China being the most triumphant example. Germans Love David Hasselhoff is about people with little success in their home country becoming a huge star in a foreign country, with David Hasselhoff being a prime example of the trend.

I think you are reading more into the title than what was inteneded when the name was suggested. If Paraguay was more well known for banning things at the time, it could have gotten the nod.

Re: shimaspawn,
In fiction, sure why not? It is precisely why this site exists — to document stuff in fiction. If someone are to document how some films or novels portray stuff getting banned in China, it is absolutely fine.

But is TV Tropes supposed to contribute to real-life stereotyping?

There's a difference between stereotypes based in conjecture and stereotypes based in fact. This is one of the latter. I can certainly dig you up the research to prove it.

Never mind that we have lots of articles about negative stereotypes. Depraved Homosexual for one. Should we rename that one even though it is exactly what it says on the tin because the name is a negative stereotype?

edited 16th Jun '10 9:48:56 AM by shimaspawn

TV Tropes documents things. We didn't create Banned in China. We documented that it was used that way, the same way that if it was fifty years ago we almost certainly would have used Banned in Boston.

You are also forgetting Tropes Are Not Bad. This title is not meant to cast China in a negative light, it's just pointing out the fact that there are a lot of examples of banned media in that one country.

Many stereotyping has a factual basis, and just a glance at the Banned in China page will show China is very heavy on bans. But a blanket term like Banned in China is going beyond the factual.

Please let facts remain facts, and reserve Banned in China to something really banned in China.

Re Meeble,
Tropes Are Not Bad, but trope names can be bad. I'm not complaining against a trope on censorship, just wishing it has a more accurate name.

edited 16th Jun '10 10:00:36 AM by Randalf

This trope name is not bad. It actually is the opposite of all criteria in When To Rename A Trope.

• It is not poorly named (what the trope is about is very clear from the start)
• The information submitted is factually correct.
• The trope name makes intuitive sense.
• It is not named for a character (Axis Powers Hetalia doesn't count :P) or a work.
• It is not a problem of not being Exactly What It Says on the Tin, as stated above.

This really seems like you have a personal problem with the trope name, which isn't an attack on you— I have a problem with several trope names. However, it's not all about you, just like it's not all about me. This is stated on When To Rename A Trope as well.

edited 16th Jun '10 10:11:10 AM by savage

There's nothing "stereotypical" about describing what a government actually, openly, and proudly does.

Most Triumphant Example strikes again.

I woudln't be calling for a rename if it were another country known for banning things. I'm not saying I care either way about redirects for Banned In Australia, Bannedin Burma (Myanmar technically but Added Alliterative Appeal etc), Banned In North Korea, etc. All of these places are notorious for banning things and the reasons tend to be, at their most rational, "We want to show off our power but at the same time pretend that's not what we're doing - here's some flimsy moral excuse we're calling the "real" reason" (Australia excepted from that, they're just Moral Guardians in the deluded extreme).

China is a better example than any of them though as they do it all the time, for ridiculous reasons, any quote the phrase to anyone and they know what you're talking about.

Re: Elle, I don't buy this Acceptable Target argument, or that anything is fair game as long as it "does not have feelings". Governments are made up by people and represent people, who are capable of feeling being unfairly stereotyped.

Then why do we have a multimillion dollar industry composed of late night TV hosts, Stephen Colbert, The Daily Show, Doonsburry, scathes of political cartoons...etc, etc.?

The argument stinks of Political Correctness Gone Mad if you ask me.

edited 16th Jun '10 12:45:59 PM by Elle

News at eleven, China declares war on the TVTropes website for the article known as Banned in China.

Seriously, it's not a problem.

"News at eleven, China declares war on the TV Tropes website for the article known as Banned In China."

War is thankfully short, but fanfics shipping China and TV Tropes explode.

I smell an untapped opportunity for Rule 34 to plumb the depths of depravity once again!

I see I have failed to convince anyone, and have noticed that this thread is starting to gather irrelevant lampooning. I suppose what I should do is to let the matter rest and move on.

Thanks everyone for your time.

I like Banned In Tropestan, myself. Doesn't offend anyone, and it rhymes, too.

—R.J.

edited 17th Jun '10 11:24:43 AM by rjung

We don't like using "trope" as a placeholder, and it's actually less clear than the Most Triumphant Example

Why Randalf? You have already convinced me. I believe that too that it should be named "Banned in X" instead of China. I personally find it very misleading and offensive, but oh well, this is the internet, and Tv Tropes is no exception.

Misleading? How so? It's about censorship, which China is notorious for doing at every opportunity. Offensive? Oh yes, I'm quite certain the dictatorial government of China devote several minutes every day to weeping at the slander we have done unto them with this article.

The name is fine. It's not being misused, and it's immediately clear what it is about by the title. Changing it is indeed, as Elle said, Political Correctness Gone Mad.

Seriously, the name is fine. Trying to rename Banned in China for those reasons is like trying to rename The Scrappy because Scrappy isn't the only example of the trope. Give people some credit. The name's not terribly unclear, and even if it was, most people generally read the page before referring to it somewhere.

I'd also add that saying something like "this is an insult to the Chinese people" is how the Chinese government itself occasionally diverts criticism of its practices.

But I think we've got a consensus here, so that's that!

Done. Locking with no change.