Pathogen: The Infected

It can be anything. The beauty of the Pathogen is that no one knows what it is or where it comes from or how it spreads beyond what they've learned through practical application. It takes any form that the Storyteller needs at the time.

On Parasite: As a Merit/Flaw it sounds like a good idea. It's merit that allows you to devour one of your Parasites for ATP with the disadvantage of the fact that YOUR BODY IS FULL OF SOME SORT OF TERRIBLE PARASITE SHIT (See Bogleech.com For ideas). Call it a detriment to Social skills or something.

On Vigor: How does Adrenal Burst sound?

On Character's: I've already Mentioned it, Do this shit mage style Symptom/Allegiance

EDIT: A good point, we'll leave those in as options. A sidebar perhaps?

edited 23rd Nov '10 9:40:44 PM by NightmareWork

Hrmm

You might save the urban legend style vectors for an optional expansion, once you've got a working game going with the grittier stuff.

Hidden Vectors, as it were?

Hrmm

Sorry, I misspoke. I didn't say for the infected to eat their own parasite, I was referring to another infected ripping them open to eat the parasite. Eating his own parasites might not make sense, since they are already part of his ATP pool. / I think it should just be a flaw rather than a merit. It would work similar to the Deformity flaw, where he'd get a -2 to social rolls if someone seeds him naked or half-dressed, because then they notice the discolored wounds under his skin made by the parasites and will react accordingly ("Uh... are you feeling alright? You look terrible."). Predatory Infected, Chimeras, and Zombies might have a preference for him over other individuals, because his parasites smell so delicious. / Furthermore, the Infected might gain obsessive-compulsive derangements related to his parasites, and have a situation like the movie Bug.

Adrenal Burst sounds good. Matches with Adrenal Control.

We should still have a section for Vector, because the way someone became Infected is still very important. Rather than a new favored subversion, how about a bonus to an attribute to represent the fight and loss against the disease? Vector provides an attribute bonus and possibly RP opportunities/justifications for certain merits or flaws, Symptom provides a strength/weakness, and Subversions are chosen by the player (6 dots to spread at creation, XP break on 4 + Mutation)?

On Wings, how about cost breaks for merits?

edited 25th Nov '10 10:05:43 AM by Zenoseiya

Ah that makes more sense. "It's in me I can feel it I can hear it. I want to take care of it but I don't. It wants to get out and make more oh god why won't it stop talking to me."

And yeah, that system of Vector/Symptom/Wing Though I think that symptom should provide at least one favored subversion, how many points do most splats get for their powers?

Hrmm

Some more reading:

• "What to do with the smallpox virus?" (excellent insight into one of the greatest achievements of virology, as well as the moral dilemmas of storing dangerous pathogens for the sake research)
• "Emerging" by Hokazono Masaya gives some insight into how prevention and research of epidemics can be handled. [Some further manga that revolve around the theme were mentioned in this forum thread].

Vectors and Symptoms:

Seconding what @Zenoseiya said on the Vectors; we should re-assign most of the favored Subversions, because most pairings do not make sense. I don't mind them (Vectors) being dropped as a stat, though I did like the elegance of how you could describe your character's circumstances right off the bat just by picking the appropriate Vector and Symptom. Also, you could do this cool thing where Infected of the same Pathogen shared the same Vector but would manifest different Symptoms.

Also, the name was inaccurate, since Vector means carrier or bearer; ie. only correctly means the Bitten. "Transmission" may not sound as cool, but that's the correct word.

The event that led to the infection, and the first symptoms will definitely still be mentioned as the cornerstones of the backstory in the prelude writing tips section.

Symptoms:

I like it that the Symptoms are easily relatable and stuff that we all associate with sickness (we are all familiar with Fever, for example). That could be a good direction to maintain.

Symptoms should probably represent the major groups of medical signs, though; even if we can't include them all, players should be able to opt for the ones they can relate to personally.

The nWoD approach to basic groups would be trying to define the types of Infected that appear in fiction the most, and make them playable. Then you match them up with player strategies (there is usually a physical type, a social type, )

For example, the "shapeshifter" type popularized by the werewolf myth focuses on the horror of fast Involuntary Shapeshifting; it's also allows the old-school mutants who were basically humans with disgusting or strange deformities; then the recent "new genesis" types where you are creating a new life form is the goal (these tend to have Evolutionary Level vibes); the Zombie infected etc. What other archetypes can we think of?

An idea that I had: defining Symptoms are not the result of the Pathogen. Rather, they are created by the character's immune system fighting back against the Pathogen. Of course, the character and the Pathogen have in some ways, become the same organism, so the Symptom will persist during the entirety of the character's Infected existence, becomong the trademark way that the character's experiences the Infection.

(In this view, Symptoms would be modelled after autoimmune reactions.)

Assigning symptoms to subversions: just a few thoughts, dont know:

• Fever, the character's body overproduces ATP. A character is a mobile power plant. Disadvantage: The character suffers brain damage from constant overcharge, and is sensitive to temperature. Subversions: ATP Control, Bioelectricity.

• Swelling/Dermis: Something grows inside the character's body, or on the outside of it. Subversions: Mutation, Bone.

• Insomnia/Headaches: The battle is for the character's mind. Strange dreams, hallucinations, hearing voices, etc. Subversions: may be a good place to squeeze in some psionic abilities if we wanted. :p Also social subversions (Pheromon Discharge etc.) could fall under this.

• Allergy (new): The character's body is still fighting back against the Pathogen, trying to push all material produced by it outside the body, and at the same time reacting violently towards everything that can be useful to it. The character will sometimes throw up strange things, even living things. Signs: tears, coughing, sweating, vomiting, rashes, breathing difficulties. Disadvantages: The character has a higher chance of infecting others accidentaly than the other subversions, and drains himself of nitritions and some of his ATP.

On the urban legend etc. ideas: I agree that we should keep the game mostly as biological horror, and not put too much supernatural in it. There should probably be a few loopholes that allow for such a game, but whether there is a natural explanation or not should be at least ambigous, because it does not fit in too well with the main theme of the game. (This does not mean that you can't have logic-defying transformations, but stuff that is clearly magical is a whole different.)

I've tried to squeeze some of this theme into the Annunaki (below). I think that Wing or Symptom that is supernaturally themed is probably the best way to go about this.

On Tetsuo: The Iron Man: I was thinking of tweaking Incorporation in a way that it would allow the Infected to assimilate different materials and even other living things into his body, not just electronical devices.

On characters Infecting other characters:

The current mechanics mirror Requiem, which I think is less fitting for this game. How about something like this: by default the character can spread the infection, but normally this Pathogen behaves like a normal disease, and it can also infect supernaturals. (Deploying it like this costs one Willpower point.) This disease is like a cocktail of various other illnesses; the attributes will be mostly random. (Actualy based on what stage of its evolution the Pathogen in the character was.) If the character wants to create a Pathogen that can make other Infected, then he has to spend a Willpower dot to "activate" it. This new Pathogen will work like the one that infected the character, and it can no longer affect other supernaturals. Also, for an additional dot of Willpower or ATP, the character can apply some "personal touches", like change the method of transmission, apply vulnerabilities or resistances, whether it can affect animals or tweak the Pathogen to make it immune to existing vaccines. There is no way to completely how many people it will infect and how many of those will wake up as Infected or Lost Ones and ATP Zombies (though the characteristics of the Pathogen can be changed in a way to maximize those possibilities).

Suggested additions to the Paths of infection - "Something New":

Origins of the Pathogens: - artificial: born in and/or escaped from a medical lab. - biological warfare: created by a foreign nation and released here. Many would blame the Russians, the Far East or others.

Crossovers:

• story hooks: the Pathogen was a normal virus that infected a Supernatural, and thanks to their different physiology, became something different in the process. Or: the Pathogen is an artificial creation, but not of human sceince: it was made by a Life Mage, a Genius Progenitor, or a Vampire who was fully aware that it would only infect humans. Or: the Pathogen was first, and many of the supernatural races such as the vampies were actually created by it before they stabilized as what they are now.
• Ideally, the player should be able to use the Pathogen system to play a game of more traditional werewolf of vampire where the focus is on the slow transformation. (In the Requiem and Forsaken universes, the change is one that occurs in the backstory, doesn't take long, and is final. This differs from the Pathogen story, where the transformation is: 1, slow, and lasts for the entire lenght of the chronicle; 2. is itself is the focus of the story, 3. ambigous - noone knows when is the point when you cannot go back, and whether you will die, be cured, or turn into something else.)

edited 6th Dec '10 11:29:54 AM by Vree

General philosophy of the game (please criticize):

- Is there a global masquerade in place to hide the existence of the Infected?

No. Invidual Infected may prefer hiding and secrecy, especially once they are at an advanced stage, and some Infected groups like the Cambions choose to keep a low profile. But there has never been a collective effort to hide to existence of the Pathogen (except for maybe one's own). In fact, groups like the Medicals or the Evolutionaries actually work towards raising awareness about the Pathogen.

- Why aren't the Infected more widely recognized?

Most of them hide the fact that they are Infected, for the obvious reason that they do not want to be institutionalized or banned from doing their jobs.

- If this is so in the open, then why hasn't mankind done something about the Pathogen yet?

Because the recognition of the Pathogen is an extremely recent development. It only happened for the first time fourteen years ago that a case of Infection in a patient was diagnosed to be caused by the same agent as in others, and scientist haven't been able to correctly identify the Pathogen until five years ago. Initially it was believed to be a number of unrelated diseases. It was only with the recent years that the Pathogen's unprecedented ability mutate and change form has come into light. The identification of the Pathogen in a patient is a problem even now: it manifests itself in a different way in each of its victims, making medical diagnosis and scientific categorization nearly impossible.

The exact origin and history of the Pathogen is unclear even today. What can be determined is that it has been with us for the last three decades; but whether it has only appeared then or it has been with us before that, maybe even in ancient times, remains unanswered.

- If so many recognize the dangers of the Pathogen, why hasn't it been wiped out yet?

Part of the difficulty lies in the aforementioned ability to change and adapt. Sometimes changes so quickly that it can not even be identified as the same disease. The biggest problem is that traditional methods to fight an epidemic don't work against the Pathogen. Most other infectious agents rely on only one or a few methods of transmission, and have distinct vulnerabilities that they cannot change over a short time. The rendering previously created vaccines; even if the scientists manage to come up with a vaccine to wipe out a particular strain, the rest are so far removed from it that they remain unaffected.

Perhaps its strangest ability -one that the medical community is still largely unaware of- is to "skip species" by infecting other pathogens. It is unknown how the Pathogen achieves this - most other Pathogens are limited in their ability to affect their host organism, but what the Patogen acheives is a complete hostile takeover. For this reason some have claimed that the name "Pathogen" is incorrect and that the word "symbiote" is perhaps more accurate.

One of the greatest fears of those who are familiar with stronger Infected is that the Pathogen is continously evolving and changing form in the body of either each and every host, or at least a chosen few. If this is true, it is questionable if the virus can ever be stopped until there are Infectedremaining, since a new strain can be created from a single Infected body.

Wings

I tried to have Wings built around different attitudes towards dealing with the Pathogen.

Medicals (new wing): Those who are searching for a cure for the Pathogen. They believe that the Pathogen is a disease that has to be conquered. Their special skills allow them to suppress the negative effects of the Pathogen, but also make their Infected potential weaker.

Evolutionaries: Those who want to harvest the potential of the Pathogen for the benefit of t mankind. They believe that the Pathogen is a result of natural evolution, and that through the pathogen mankind can evolve into a new species. They follow this principle in their own lives as well, and tend to have high Fusion.

Annunaki: Those who seek a different explanation for the existence of the Pathogen, as they do not believe its natural or man-made origin. They possess a strange skillset (even by Infected standards) that is seemingly closer to witchcraft than an Infected ability.

?Cambions?: ?Those who do not believe that the infection can be cured, and stress the importance of coming to terms with one's Infected status. Many of them willingly do what the Pathogen wants some of the time (kill a stranger or a bad guy) so that they can avoid Blackout and can resist it when they have to (do not kill a loved one).?

Joining a Wing: ...Is a simple procedure. You simply have to know at least one other person who belongs to the same Wing (Contacts, Allies, Mentor, or Retainer), and have some basic knowledge about the Wing's principles (either coming to them on her own or having been taught by someone

from the Wing). Most Wings are loosely organized, if at all, and consist instead of small groups whoo share the shame philosophy or goal. There is no membership fee either - however, while a member, the player has to live according to the philosophies of the Wing. Medicals have to follow

through with a number of strict daily routines (take their medicine at a set time, spend some time on special exercise, etc.); Cambions need to satisfy their parasyte in small ways, Annunaki need to take part in meetings or research etc. This is mostly a roleplaying challenge (will a character remember to take his 5 o' clock

pill even in the heat of things?), but the storyteller may also demand that the player spends a small portion of his exp on skills or Subversions preferred by his

Wing while being a member.

- The Consilium (aka the Medicals)

Feel free to advise on a more satisfactory name.

Philosophy:

The Medicals are united by one common goal: to rid themselves of the infection. most of them do it for themselves, though the "Holy Grail" of the organization is a cure capable of killiing all forms of the Pathogen, but such a dream lies in the uncertain future. Whether conducting or funding medical research, searching for the origin of the parasyte, recruiting new members or stopping the spread of the Pathogen, the goal before their eyes is to remove the Infection from the face of the Earth forever.

Organization:

There are several pandemic research centers in the US that make excellent story hooks or campaign settings. etc.

Membership:

Healthcare professionals, researchers, rich supporters, people who need to be treated, people who want a hospital room with medical surveillance and can are willing to make a small donation, people who can be asked a small favor in exchange for expensive medicine. Stopping the spreading of the Pathogen (either by fighting ATP zombies and other threats, or traking down other Infected) can be just as an important job, for those who prefer doing field work.

Gameplay tips:

Medicals are often considered a weak Wing. Not only do they purposely keep their Resonance low, their Fusion also deterioriates thanks to their constant

attempts to remove the parasyte.

Members rarely have additional Subversions other than their default ones. Instead, most focus their experience raising other Attributes and skills that can be used for research or Those who work out in the field may have a mastery of Survival and Firearms. They are still Infected, but they don't rely on it as much as the other groups.

Medicals retain most of their humanity and are a bit more safe from committing atrocities than other Infected. On the other hand, they often refuse to indulge in Subversions, hinder their own transformation, and use medicine to hinder and weaken the Pathogen, pushing Fusion lower.

Probably what they get the most criticized about is that they often purposely keep their Resonance low. However, thanks to this, their Blackout episodes are far less dangerous and shorter than others'.

• If someone doesn't have money or talent to speak of, they can still join - as test subjects. Just a slight prick is a small price to pay if it may cure you, right?

• Many members realize that even if there may be a cure it does not mean that it will be found in their own lifetime, and start seeking for other solutions. They still keep their Wing and ts advantages.

Advantages:

• Acquire medicine at a reduced price; able to have a hospital room ("Haven" advantage) at a reduced price; use special rituals (below).

Medical rituals:

• Cleanse - Perform detoxication on the body. You lose some of your ATP on your next Blackout roll.

• Clearing the mind: Spend some time on mental exercises. You get a bonus on all Derangement/Decay rolls that result from loss of Fusion, making breaking off the connection with your Pathogen easier. Works similarly to Meditation.

  • Forcefully decrease your Resonance by one point. Complicated cleansing ritual involved that reduces the character's Health, and all ATP he has is lost.

    • Completely suppress the Pathogen for a short while (based on which stat?). While this technique is in action, the character loses all of the results

from their Infected template, good or bad. (Does not suffer penalties from their primary Symptom, does not attract Chimera, etc.) Note that you lose some health while doing this, due to the parasyte already being a part of your body to some extent so cutting it off

- Annunaki

Membership: The Annunaki consists of equal parts UFO believers, sciencists (pseudo- and real) and the members various past and present religions.

Philosophy: The Annunaki claim that evidence of the Pathogen in the records can be traced all through human history. While people may call them deluded, charlatans or devil-worshippers, the Annunaki search for the truth - and nothing will stop them from attaining it.

Some believe that the Pathogen is the work of some otherworldly intelligence, others cite aliens or the upsernatural.

Most Annunaki don't believe in modern medicine, or at least don't think that it can cure their condition. Some are downright hostile towards the Medicals; it is believed that the bad rep they get that that accuses them of cutting open any Iinfected on an operation table if they turn to them is mostly Annunaki propaganda.

Advantage:

Looks like they may be onto something, because the Annunaki display symptoms that no regular Infected does. The Evultionaries, who are among their biggest critics, claim that the Annunaki merely harvest the power of the Pathogen: they tap into the basic nature of their symbiont, using that power to change and assimilate things around them. For most, though, what the Annunaki do seems like nothing short of magic.

Eldritch Magic works ther same way as Lovecraftian Superpower says: it's technically magic, but with disturbing biological imagery and components. Some hints of being fueled by Eldritch Abomination power may also work.

...Only space for much for now, I'll post more suggestions about Subversions and different mutations later. Oh, and The Fusion / Resonance system. :3

edited 29th Nov '10 11:44:05 AM by Vree

The Mutation subversion should be favored by all Infected right off the bat, just as it is in the original rules. It's the Subversion for transforming into a monster, after all.

But I don't think we should diverge too far away from the original rules draft.

Here's my idea for Wings:

Jagda (Evolutionaries) believe that the Pathogen is the next stage of human evolution. Some look down on humans as inferior and others believe the Pathogen should be shared.

Protectors and Stemmers remain the same.

Why don't we focus the Wings around the seven stages of grief? Shock, Denial, Bargaining, Fear, Anger, Despair, and Acceptance.

edited 29th Nov '10 3:48:16 PM by Zenoseiya

When did Jagda become confused with the Evolutionaries, anyway? They were distinct Wings before they got put into the wiki article.

edited 30th Nov '10 7:52:19 AM by Vree

On the Philosophy

-Is there a global masquerade in place to hide the existence of the Infected?

No, no there is not. They are too few, too scattered, collected in the badly organized wings or simply hidden away in some forgotten lab.

- Why aren't the Infected more widely recognized?

Because for whatever reason, the Pathogen just...doesn't show. Oh yes it's obvious that the person is sick and having auto-immune disorders, but for whatever reason, the doctors look away. They tell you it's nothing. Take two of this shit and two of that shit and call them in the morning. For whatever reason, they don't recognize what's before them.

-Crossovers

Vampire: Blood of Infected is mentioned in book, shouldn't really cross too much.

Werewolf: Mentioned in book, think we can expound upon it.

Mage: Mages what to study, Exarchs' minoins want to control. Or maybe them and their pet MI Bs are behind some of the labs... or maybe they aren't. Paranoia is our central theme, after-all.

Changeling: Don't see how they could cross, any suggestions?

Giest: Again, not really seeing much, but I haven't read much of Giest...

Promethean: err....

Zen, on the use of the stages of grief, Changeling already did it, and I don't think it fits our core themes of Paranoia very well. Our thesis, at least from my point of view, is "The body has betrayed you, how long do you have?"

edited 30th Nov '10 12:32:51 PM by NightmareWork

Hrmm

>>When did Jagda become confused with the Evolutionaries, anyway? They were distinct Wings before they got put into the wiki article.

The original rules flip-flop on whether they are separate or not. One version has them separate, the other has them as the same.

>>Zen, on the use of the stages of grief, Changeling already did it, and I don't think it fits our core themes of Paranoia very well. Our thesis, at least from my point of view, is "The body has betrayed you, how long do you have?"

Changeling doesn't use them (it only has four courts). The seven stages of grief can be found among people diagnosed with terminal diseases. The Pathogen could count as a terminal disease, if you consider the gradual loss of identity terminal.

• Shock - Stemmers, they don't know what's going on
• Denial - Protectors, they lie to themselves by fighting others
• Bargaining - Consilium (nickname: Medicals), they think they can find a cure
• Fear -
• Anger - Cambions, they know they can't be fixed and lash out at the world
• Despair - Annunaki, they realize there is no hope for them and fall to rampant hedonism and madness
• Acceptance - Jagda (nickname: Evolutionaries), they take pride in their Infection and seek to master it

edited 30th Nov '10 4:54:41 PM by Zenoseiya

Changeling has more than four courts, but besides that, the Changelings themselves fit it nicely

1. Shock - All of Changeling at one point or another
2. Denial - Spring. Just party, it never happened, it'll go away
3. Bargaining - Autumn, gathering power in some vain hope of trading it for a normal life, or some silly concept of vengance
4. Fear - The Mad, who cannot function in normal society, be it Changeling or mortal
5. Anger - Summer, Striking back at what hurt them in a fury
6. Despair - Winter, hiding away where nothing can hurt them
7. Acceptance - Rarely happens, but sometimes you find it. Or you turn into one of the Gentry

All very fitting for a game about Abuse and Coming to Terms with it, but Pathogen is about the slow fall into madness and transformation into a monster, with nothing you can do about it accept or slow the process. Or so it seems to me.

edited 30th Nov '10 10:27:08 PM by NightmareWork

Hrmm

My initial reaction was that it's a bad idea. Many homebrew systems try to force a philosophical theme-set on settings that don't really need it. It may make sense for Mage or Changeling, because those are built around such cncepts, but eg. Hunters or Genii had only normal organizations based on what sort of groups would fit IRL, and I don't see the Infected as poetically inclined enough to opt for the first alternative. oWoD loved this trope, but I personally preferred how nWoD wasn't too hard on the stuff and would often just use how the characters could logically organize themselves, and what are the clearest choices for players, which I liked a lot better.

But the way you have described it, I think that it may work. I wouldn't have them replace the Wing names, but perhaps as nicknames for each group.

What we'd want to avoid, though, is that the players see these as the neccessary progression through Wings, where every player has to start off as a Protector and finally end up with the Evolutionaries.

Pathogen may be closer to Changeling and Geist than it first can seem. Geist is about a human and another being sharing the same body and struggling for equilibrium (Synergy=Fusion?), and Changeling is about mortals forcefully changed into other beings and trying to come to terms with it.

edited 1st Dec '10 2:12:52 PM by Vree

Hmm... I think I see what you mean Vree, perhaps I was to hasty in my objections. Why don't we go with Zen's idea? Build each of them up around one of those ideas, just so we have somewhere to start? They can then, if you'll pardon the term, evolve from there.

Hrmm

Did someone mention Bogleech? Yeah let's get Scythemantis in here, he'll clean all this up quick.

Hell, he even got to be an NPC in a Vampire The Requiem expansion! That's how you know he's experienced in these kinds of things.

EDIT: ...How do you link to user pages?

edited 1st Dec '10 10:13:43 PM by mrsaturn

They assed first. I am only retaliating in an ass way. -The Dead Man's Life

That'd be extremely great.

I think we reached an agreement to leave the nature of the Pathogen vague (which is what I was thinking too, only with more focus on real biology and less on the supernatural, though not completely excluding that either).

Which is totally fine. As long as I get what I want and there is nothing that explicitly screams "supernatural" either. XD (Implicitly, that's a whole different story. We love implicit.)

For the record, I'm not extremely attached to the current Wings. They have...Good things and bad things going for them. So far I just tried to flesh them out a bit, but if someone says that they want us to look at it in a different way, they should.

Initially when I started making notes about this I wanted to squeeze in a whole section about real-world Pathogens and epidemic research centers, an idea that has now mostly turned into the "Medicals" Wing (horrible name btw) who were originally only an idea to make use of the "search for a cure" trope.

(Medicals are also the "give science and society some credit" group, another nWoD thing that I like [in the oWoD, these things were always corrupt or dysfunctional].) And I may end up writing some of this for the group anyway, because it's joke to have a game about Pathogens and no idea how they'd make this work IRL.

I have tried to re-imagine the Annunaki as the "closer to the supernatural" guild (though the name does not matter), but people did not take the bait, so maybe I missed the mark there xD

The "Religion of Evil" (I think that's @Zen's idea on them), I don't think is workable as a player choice. There "Crazy cult" is just a played out trope if we don't add anything to it.

What I was trying to do is to bring all of these options together: where the Pathogen is some sort of alien invasion; where it is a result of Wo D magic (or, for crossovers, other races, Mages or Vampires etc.); and wilder ideas where it's God's punishment, Chtulhu's influence, etc. Similarly, the Annunaki could just as well be cultist as pseudo-scientists, UFO believers, or conspiracy theorists. Who may even be right.

But then maybe I should ask @Zen what in his mind would be a group fit for a supernatural campaign xD

The grant for the Wing: My first idea was to dump all kind of effects on them that may have to be part of the Infected/mutant mythos, but what you'd not neccessary want in an average game. For example, psionics. Maybe even the zombie thing. I was also inspired by Wizard of Yog-Sogoth to make their abilities seem more magic-like.

Not just offensive abilities, either; something I like and what they could easily grab is the role of the "healers" throught Subversions among the Infected (Medicals, despite the appearance, are more like scholars than a "healer class").

Here are some ideas:

Healing hands * (inspired by RL "spiritual healers"):

The Annunaki touches the patient's skin, creating a hole without causing pain or bleeding. He can then reach into the person's body and make changes there. Essentially this allows for surgery without the use of any tools. (Bonus on Medicine rolls.) The wound closes again once the Annunaki has pulled her hands out, and leaves no mark.

Festering Portal *****

The Annunaki creates a wormhole through which he can transport himself and others between two points. The entrance looks horrifying like a huge mouth filled with hook-like teeth, and the "tunnel" from the inside looks like someone's intestines. Any person who uses it has to make a roll so that they do not take damage as they overcome with dread and disgust.

^These abilities are still in an idea stage, no guarantee that the Annunaki will actually look like this.

edited 10th Dec '10 9:40:52 AM by Vree

I've thought about it, and created a Wing for Despair. Another thing I'd wantsomewhere in the game, besides the biological stuff, is the option to make hive-like society of mutated Infected. I've written them up as a Wing, but it's just unclear whether they should just be a Wing or just antagonists (or in the game at all) as the Cambions (and the Neonates).

The Collective

(see: Helstrom's Hive, The Brood, The Flood (Halo), The Many (System Shock), The Unity (Fallout) )

Organization:

When they are no longer able to function as normal people, in body or mind, for many Infected the only choice is to flee and try to forge an existence independently from the rest of humanity, a near impossible task in an age in this day and age when people are so heavily reliant on others and when humans populate pretty much every corner of the world. Yet, sometimes, these pursued souls meet and realize than they do not have to fight alone. It is from their efforts that the Collective was born - a Wing whose goal, never clearly stated but often implied, is to leave the human way of life behind altogether.

The Hivers are elusive, and avoid contact with humans. Some raid sewers or underground caves. A few of them are able to make it to the few remaining wild and human free areas.

Membership: Many Hivers have left their lives behind because they had developed such special needs that they could no longer be fulfilled within the constraints of human society.Many have been mentally warped by the Pathogen, embodying the Evolutionary ideal, but in a gruesome manner: what little humanity is left alone and powerless, lost in the buzz of alien thoughts that now control the body.

The Hive lives in tight-knit groups, and members consider each other as family. They are usually the biggest advocates of solidarity among the Infected, though their form of unity is frightening to most other Wings at best. Their society does not follow a human model; even Cambion groups are tribal at worst, but the Hivers' instead is usually compared to an insect colony, based on the unique mutations that they possess.

Sometimes they capture Infected vistors and try to "initiate" them into the collective. Most of the time though, they just want to be left alone away from outsider's eyes.

They are unique in the number of Infected who were born directly into the Wing. For a few Hivers, the hidden community is all they have ever known.

Even stranger, Lost Ones and Chimera are an accepted part of the colony.

The first symptoms:

Hivers are Unborn in a greater percentage than any other Wing. Even if they are not, their Pathogen tends to be more agressive.Occassionally the victims in an area follow a certain pattern during their mutations, which then turn out to be important roles within their Hive, as if intended that way by the Pathogen.

Relations:

Few like to even speak of the Wing of Despair. For most Infected they represent a future that they desperately want to avoid. They have the best relations with the Evolutionaries and the Cambion; the first because they represent what they yearn to become; the other because they are just as far removed from humanity as they are.

Opinions:

• Evolutionary: "They want to be like us...They do not realize our pain."
• Cambion: "They are so angry at humanity, they even forget to care for their own survival."
• Protector: "Rebellious children."
• Medical: "They try to alleviate our pain, but they just keep causing more."
• Annunaki: "Trying to understand what we are, while if they joined us they could experience it instead."

New subversion: Cooperation

Cooperation allows the character to work together more effectively with other Infected, and even with Lost Ones and Chimeras.

• Kinship (*)

An unshakeable bond is created between the Infected and others with the same parasyte. Lost Ones, ATP zombies and Chimera pose no danger to the character anymore. The trade-off is the character has a harder time doing anything that may cause them harm as well.

If anyone under the Pathogen's influence tries to attack the character, they need to roll (at the beginning of the combat, and every round when they make a new attack), and vica versa. If it fails then the character cannot bring himself to attack their opponent. Simple-minded creatures such as ATP zombies will not initiate attacks by default, while others will only do it if provoked.

Characters who take this trait early on are often paralyzed upon the first meeting with an Infected monster, feeling a strange attachment to the horrifying creature before them.

(This trait is often picked by other types of Infected creatures, which is why they work so well together.)

• Alert (***)

Summons all other infected beings in the area to the character's aid. The signal is something of a high-pitched scream, not perceivable for regular mortals but noticable for other Infected and those with supernatural hearing. It is compelling for ATP zombies and Chimera, while other Infected can choose whether to respond to it. The identity of the character using the call cannot be determined, only the general direction of the source. The summoned creatures are controlled and will act according to their usual nature. Range goes up with Resonance.

• Hive mind (*****)

edited 3rd Dec '10 6:45:14 AM by Vree

>>But the way you have described it, I think that it may work. I wouldn't have them replace the Wing names, but perhaps as nicknames for each group.

>>What we'd want to avoid, though, is that the players see these as the neccessary progression through Wings, where every player has to start off as a Protector and finally end up with the Evolutionaries.

Nein, nein, nein! Basing them around the seven stages of grief is a design decision for our convenience, not part of game mechanics. Storytellers and players should not be aware of this!

Your other ideas are good though. I would stay away from giving the Wings self-descriptory names like "Evolutionary" or "Medical." Nicknames, maybe, but not proper titles. Jagda and Consili sound more lofty (or pretentious, as some may argue, which would make IC sense). Protectors could have names like Sentinels or Guardians or "those meddling kids," among others.

What's our current splat model? Vector x Symptom x Wing? I definitely think we should drop the Vector/Symptom determining Subversions, both because it is a common nWoD device and because it adds an element of predictability, which doesn't fit the Pathogen. It is inherently unpredictable in many respects. See my notes on character creation above.

Also, should we have something like specific inspirations for each Wing? Like Hellstrom's Hive for the Collective, Guyver for Protectors, Scanners for Jagda (the supremacy aspects, not the parapsychology). Annunaki could be inspired by Tommyknockers and Rosemary's Baby and The Society. Stemmers could be inspired by Rabid (that woman was ignorant) and The Fly. Thoughts?

edited 2nd Dec '10 7:09:55 PM by Zenoseiya

I definitely think we should drop the Vector/Symptom determining Subversions, both because it is a common nWoD device and because it adds an element of predictability, which doesn't fit the Pathogen. It is inherently unpredictable in many respects. See my notes on character creation above.

I hear what you're saying, but what'd you replace it with? I still like the role of the 5-splat system to give players and storytellers a general idea about what type of character that person wants to play. And Pathogen potentially touching on topics that may not be welcome by every player (eg. their character gaining a permanent disfigurement) it would be important that they are given the means to ensure that what they want to play is what they get.

And, of course, what the players know is not the same as what the character knows. Since the players are the ones choosing their Subversions, they already the ones who determine which way the character will go, it's just a part of the system. It's great if the system is unpredictable enough to set the mood, but you would not want to take away more control than that.

I'm less concerned about Vectors, for the reasons we have said above, and because they do not tie to Subversions as logically to begin with.

Let me try to respond some comments I did not get to before:

Here's some stranger ideas: a person might contract the Pathogen after being supposedly abducted by aliens, being used in government/corporate experiments, taking experimental drugs, being exposed to some kind of weird radiation from the television or radio, watching a "cursed" video tape/dvd/viral video, or visiting a certain website/eating at a street vendor that vanishes by the second visit.

I think that if someone wants to play an urban legends then maybe what they actually want is Wo D Night Horrors or Wo D Inferno. It's great if the system can be used for those kind of transformations too with relatively little change, but this is not what the game is about, and trying too hard to incorporate them would probably have a bad effect on the mood of the game.

You could probably play a demon-possessed or scientifically created vampire with Requiem as well, but unless we want to change the title to Pathogen: The Cursed, I don't think that this is the direction originally intended...

I do appreciate the unique suggestions tho', and it made me realize a lot of what else one could do with the game. Maybe the Vectors section below will help with this. And of course, anything that can not be fitted into the final game can be included in an appndix for optional rules (which should definitely be called "Quarantine", following the theme naming for chapter titles xD).

On Parasite: As a Merit/Flaw it sounds like a good idea. It's merit that allows you to devour one of your Parasites for ATP with the disadvantage of the fact that YOUR BODY IS FULL OF SOME SORT OF TERRIBLE PARASITE SHIT (See Bogleech.com For ideas). Call it a detriment to Social skills or something.

This works. Also, perhaps an Exoparasite Flaw, where the parasite is on the outside of the host's body (but still unremovable without killing the host too), which gives the player an easily targettable weak point?

Also, more on this in the Vectors post below.

On Vigor: How does Adrenal Burst sound?

Adrenal Burst it is.

But there's should be a explanation for what happens if infected try to have children. Zombie babies, chimeras, chronically ill individuals who begin manifesting bizarre physical features during puberty, stuff like that.

Pregnancy as horror could probably merit a whole section. I'll try to make one maybe I guess. If the Unborn are kept then most of this will be the trademark of their group.

Also, a note on the Unborn's handicap mentioned before: there's no reason why Infected pregnancy and child development should follow the same 9-month + 18 years time scale as with humans. I expect that with the greater the Infected's potential, the less time it takes and the more developed the child at birth, and the faster it matures. Though if carrying the Pathogen since birth doesn't mess up an individual's psyche maturing 100x faster than everyone else they know definitely does. xD

(See also Fetus Terrible and related tropes.)

I don't really know how to deal with the neoteny splat. You could just drop the idea of age regression period, since it isn't really a disease (rapid aging is, but doesn't make for good P Cs). The Neonate wing should be revised to be more along the lines of a technophile transhumanism group (what would a good new name be? How about just Techno(s)? if Cybersix can use that word to refer to genetic aberrations, so can we), contrasted with the more "traditional" social darwinist Jagda.

Don't really see how technophiles fit the setting. But transhumanism is the Evolutionaries' theme, so as a sub-group for that Wing they will work.

@NW's idea to re-imagine the childlike Infected group as an enemy type is what I think is the best solution for this. Perhaps connect the group to the Unborn, and kids becoming Infected in general - I expect that a lot of children are just not strong enough and become Lost Ones early on, while parental abandonment (and Self-Made Orphan or wandering away from home during Blackout) is common. Naturally these children will eventually band together to protect themselves from people and other, bigger and stronger Infected.

On a new Symptom, I was thinking Headaches/Sinus problems. It's like your head is going to explode at every hour of every day, there's a pounding that won't stop. You can hear something in your skull. Most people say it's the Pathogen talking at you. You can follow the viral instincts better for bonuses, but you are also distracted by the pounding in your skull. Favored Subversion of Bio Electricity as you know your own synapses firing painfully. And you harvest that to use Bio Elec better.

Sinus problems are currently lumped together with Insomnia, but separating them is possible. See notes on Symptoms below.

Jagda (Evolutionaries) believe that the Pathogen is the next stage of human evolution. Some look down on humans as inferior and others believe the Pathogen should be shared.

Yeah, that's probably how they'll be.

On the Philosophy

Changed to what you said now.

-Crossovers

Some more stuff that hasn't been mentioned:

Mage: Achmaster Life Mages (level 6+) may well have the power to create a Pathogen in the first place. Also at this level the mage can communicate with lower life forms, meaning that one on one communication with one's body and the parasite inside is possible. It will definitely not result in information about how to defeat it, but the characters may receive clues about its wants and origins.

Promethean: The Pandorans are effectively Infected v0.1, (and Promethean contains several ideas integral to Pathogen in general - OK, so does Vampire or Werewolf as well, but still). If nothing else, the Pandoran transmutations are a good example of what sort of mutative decay an Infected can suffer as well.

Changeling: The character may believe himself to be a Fetch, a clone left behind to replace a kidnapped human, or a Changeling with a memory loss. This would explain why his body is acting so strange.

Leviathan: Surely the rumors that the ancient gods would have a means to morph humans into other beings for their own purposes is hearsay. Are they the alien creators that the Annunaki have been searching for?

I would stay away from giving the Wings self-descriptory names like "Evolutionary" or "Medical." Nicknames, maybe, but not proper titles. Jagda and Consili sound more lofty (or pretentious, as some may argue, which would make IC sense). Protectors could have names like Sentinels or Guardians or "those meddling kids, " among others.

I think that there's a lot of room for improvement with the names, but we are yet to think about what really will work. I had a jokey idea to try to see if one could assign a nick with an "-er" suffix to each as in Stemmer (if only because it seems to be a popular way of christening Infected enemies).

Question: what does "Jagda" mean? "Cambion" and "Annunaki" is self-explanatory, but where did this one come from?

Also, should we have something like specific inspirations for each Wing?

All that you have listed, definitely. I will list insorations for each idea from here on.

Also, should we have something like specific inspirations for each Wing? Like Hellstrom's Hive for the Collective, Guyver for Protectors, Scanners for Jagda (the supremacy aspects, not the parapsychology). Annunaki could be inspired by Tommyknockers and Rosemary's Baby and The Society. Stemmers could be inspired by Rabid (that woman was ignorant) and The Fly. Thoughts?

I'm glad that you have mentioned The Society; that's exactly what my impression of the Annunaki has been shifting towards. Other inspirations include, of course, von Däniken's Ancient Astronauts theories, Chtulhu stories, and the Bible, and any amount of pseudoscientific theories and beliefs. (Don't forget, in the Wo D these may actually be true.)

(How about modeling some of the Annunaki factions on the Book of Revelation's interpretations? These would be as follows:

Preterists believe that the progenitors' identity, origins and intentions can be determined through the old texts;

Historicists believe that the pathogen has left tracks can be followed through human history;

Futurists believe that information about the future can be decyphered from the records;

Idealists believe that that there is an even greater truth, and everything else should be taken as an allegory for this higher order.

By occupation they can be grouped as [warning, more horrible names]: Cultists, those whose aim is to find and communicate with whatever beings they believe are responsible for the Pathogen; The Tradition, biomancers who invent new bizarre subversions, and dress it up as rituals and mysticism; The Society, a secret society of influental people who are using of their abilities for their own advantage behind the curtain, and their influence to keep their Infected status a secret; The Institute, a group keen on "restoring the phyisical, mental, and spiritual unity of the body" through alternative medicine and spiritual training.)

Guyver would be a great example of a Protector, one with a few mutations and subversions already and not afraid to show them.

(Other inspirations: superhero comics - there would probably be a fad of teens trying to imitate superheroes, spreading like a meme/fad through chatrooms, who fight human crime-; Vampire Refugee s and Dhampirs (a subgroup who see their condition as a mission where they are the only ones who can face and hunt their own kind-; and Mirror's Edge could be a good example of an unaffiliated/free-spirited Protector.)

I'll try to list my inspirations where it is relevant too.

edited 15th Dec '10 12:29:00 PM by Vree

>> Since the players are the ones choosing their Subversions, they already the ones who determine which way the character will go, it's just a part of the system. It's great if the system is unpredictable enough to set the mood, but you would not want to take away more control than that.

Taking away control is a bad idea. When I say "unpredictable" I mean for those facing an infected. If we allow the player to chose Subversions separately from Symptom/Vector, knowing a character's Vector or Symptom gives no insight into what Subversions they may have other than Mutation, which all Infected possess anyway (this last part is in the original rules, used to simulate the "monster form" people in body horror works may turn into).

>> Question: what does "Jagda" mean?

I don't know. Adam Thaxton chose it. I looked it up years ago and it seems to be from Sanskrit.

Ah, OK. But Infected only have a minus 1 experience point per dot cost break for favored Subversion, will that really lead to overspecializing? (New Dots x 6 for favored, New Dots x 5 for regular.)

I've been working on an alternative rule-set to be able to handle mutations, but let me say this, you are really gonna need someone more experienced with nWoD game balance than me. Without someone to work on those mechanics (ie. do the real work :p) things are not gonna stand on the long run.

Why I started working on even more rules is directly related to the "body horror" theme, and my biggest complaint about Mutation: the fact that it is temporary. Basically you get a number of turns for which you can maintain a monster form, after which you go back to your human. Which, I think, goes against the theme of body horror because of the lack of any permanent change. This wouldn't be such an issue if every other body distortion did not work through Mutation too, but that's just how it is. This is also at odds with what the rest of the book suggests, such as Infected predating on humans and forming groups around the idea of being a new species. Substitute whatever monstrous creature you imagined when it talks about that stuff with a normal person to see the problem is with this.

Anyway, more to come on this along with the stuff on Vectors/Symptoms I have mentioned, and I appreciate the input.

edited 15th Dec '10 7:46:21 PM by Vree

Well, the temporary mutations could leave you with more and more bizarre physical traits the more you use them. You turn into a bellowing mass of tumors and smash some thugs around, then return to your human self... with a few additions.

Holy shit, is this the same Thaxton who's currently writing Ow My Sanity? That man puts in work.

Share it so that people can get into this conversation, 'cause we're not the only ones who think like this.