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IJBM: D&D has character levels and magic levels.

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GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#1: Sep 27th 2010 at 9:07:21 AM

"Level 9 wizard" is not the same as "Level 9 wizard spells".

This bugs me. Can someone think of a better terminology?

What about "9th-order wizard spells"?

edited 27th Sep '10 9:07:43 AM by GlennMagusHarvey

MorkaisChosen from Learning Since: Jan, 2001
#2: Sep 27th 2010 at 9:14:09 AM

"Circle" is a common one for ranks of spell- so a Ninth Level Wizard could cast Spells of the Fifth Circle.

"Order" would work well, as would "Magnitude" or even "Iteration", if your wizards are less mystical and more scientific

edited 27th Sep '10 9:15:01 AM by MorkaisChosen

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#3: Sep 27th 2010 at 9:33:01 AM

Yeah, I'd use "rank" if it weren't already used in "skill ranks".

Perhaps "grade"? LOL "Grade 5 wizard spell".

arbane BLUH from Wallowing in obscurity Since: Jan, 2001
BLUH
#4: Sep 27th 2010 at 11:04:49 AM

I remember reading about one D&D game where the in-universe term for spell levels was "valence" - like an electron, each spell can only occupy one of multiple possible distinct energy states.

LullTheConqueror Love Freak from eternal loli Hell Since: Jan, 2001
#5: Sep 27th 2010 at 11:06:04 AM

It's not just you. wink

the dice are loaded, the deck is stacked, the game itself will hold you back
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#6: Sep 27th 2010 at 11:11:04 AM

arbane: like, what, "a valence 1 wizard spell"?

That sounds like...an extremely cool idea that I very much want to adopt.

@ Lull: Facepalm + LOL

edited 27th Sep '10 11:11:19 AM by GlennMagusHarvey

Nornagest Since: Jan, 2001
#7: Sep 27th 2010 at 11:19:55 AM

"Circle" is a good idea. So's "valence", although it imposes setting constraints — it'd work very well for a dungeonpunk setting, not so well for high fantasy.

I will keep my soul in a place out of sight, Far off, where the pulse of it is not heard.
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#8: Sep 27th 2010 at 11:37:34 AM

What meaning does "valence" have other than the chemistry meaning?

Nornagest Since: Jan, 2001
#9: Sep 27th 2010 at 12:11:20 PM

Wikipedia has your answers.

Most of its definitions appear to revolve around "degrees of freedom" or a similar concept.

I will keep my soul in a place out of sight, Far off, where the pulse of it is not heard.
GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#10: Sep 27th 2010 at 12:15:10 PM

Hmm, it seems to vaguely mean "potential". Not electrical potential, but like, "potential power magnification" or something.

Tzetze DUMB from a converted church in Venice, Italy Since: Jan, 2001
DUMB
#11: Sep 27th 2010 at 12:17:10 PM

What about "9th-order wizard spells"?

Wouldn't second-order spells be metamagic feats

[1] This facsimile operated in part by synAC.
disturbly Since: Mar, 2010
#12: Sep 27th 2010 at 2:25:44 PM

Seems you guys are all focusing on referring to spells by something other than "level"; what about changing the term you use to describe character level?

One thing I've done in my games is have NPC spellcasters explaining their character level (read: bragging about their power) by describing themselves as an X "degree" practicioner of some tradition or another. A 14th level Dread Necromancer, for example, might describe himself as a 14th degree initiate of the Chthonian School. I started doing it just because it made dialogue sound cooler, but it seems applicable here too.

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arbane BLUH from Wallowing in obscurity Since: Jan, 2001
BLUH
#13: Sep 27th 2010 at 2:36:42 PM

Disturbly - I like that. And it makes sense; I once got into an argument with a DM about how "in-character" levels and such are, and I pointed out that you can pretty well peg a spellcaster's level once you know what the most powerful spells they can cast are.

GlennMagusHarvey Since: Jan, 2001
#14: Sep 27th 2010 at 2:38:49 PM

^ So they gain their "degrees" the way a martial artist would ("third-degree black belt" for example).

But how would you justify mages that learn spells through means other than direct schooling?

MorkaisChosen from Learning Since: Jan, 2001
#15: Sep 27th 2010 at 2:53:41 PM

My inclination is to leave levels as an OOC abstraction, and refer to casters by the rank of spells they can cast-

"I'm a student of the 5th Circle of Wizardry" for a Level 9, or "I'm a master of 6th Iteration Sorcery" for a level 12 (Master implying they haven't just got to that Circle/Iteration/Rank/Sphere/Whatever, they've developed their knowledge of it).

disturbly Since: Mar, 2010
#16: Sep 27th 2010 at 2:55:59 PM

^ So they gain their "degrees" the way a martial artist would ("third-degree black belt" for example).

But how would you justify mages that learn spells through means other than direct schooling?

Well, actually, the idea is based more on Gardnerian Wicca, Alexandrian Wicca, The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, and to a lesser extent, Freemasonry, all of which assign "degrees" of initiation to their members.

For your second question, casters who had absolutely no formal training, even a mentor who only factored into their backstory, just made up new traditions and declared themselves masters of it in bombastic and narcisstic style. This game I was running was pretty high magic; I think I estimated there was something like eight hundred thousand magical "traditions" being practiced at any one time, with more being made up every day.

I like that. And it makes sense; I once got into an argument with a DM about how "in-character" levels and such are, and I pointed out that you can pretty well peg a spellcaster's level once you know what the most powerful spells they can cast are.

Yeah, everyone in my group jumps though hoops to avoid using game rule terms like "power points", "hit dice" and "reflex saves" in game. Sometimes it makes for good RP, sometimes it makes for ridiculous RP, but it's usually fun.

edited 27th Sep '10 3:03:18 PM by disturbly

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