Why all the Karen Traviss hate?

You could take the D.O.T.A. approach but a lot of Traviss' social media stuff makes it very clear that her personal views are pretty much exactly what her favourite characters' happen to be as well - yes you could argue that the Mandos and their ilk are just plain wrong but by extension it would mean so is Traviss, though maybe that's best left there to avoid getting too bashy.

So, she's a decent writer, but Author Filibuster leaks in at the expense of often beloved characters. Would that sum it up well?

She's passable for action and action-focused plots.

She's very bad at politics and ethics because she goes straight to Author Filibuster.

She also tends to Sue up her favorites at the expense of other chars, plot and common sense

edited 9th Dec '16 8:19:43 AM by 3of4

It's funny reading this back now, because you guys mentioned how later Star Wars martial from the legends EU largely ignored Traviss's contributions and largely reverted the cannon back to how it was.

Well exactly the same thing happened with Halo, Halsey is no longer the evil monster Traviss made her out to be she's ON Is scapegoat for their decisions on the Spartan I Is, 343 have abandoned the ONI stirring the Elite Civil War arc etc.

As with Star Wars the creators listened to the backlash from the fans. Which begs the question of why people let her write in well established E Us. Gears of War was fine, it's a blank slate nearly so she can have almost free reign. But she just doesn't fit in with Star Wars or Halo.

And she doesn't do those any more.

Some folks just don't color well inside other peoples' lines. Their own lines are written in sharpie that bleeds through the page. I haven't read any of hers beyond the Republic and Imperial Commando books. I liked those books, but I see them as an AU outside the Legends verse.

That's how she works, she comes in, does some damage and is Retconned away.

To be fair to the Star Wars EU brain trust that guided the franchise, Karen Traviss wasn't actually that removed from the bloodthirsty, Colonel Kilgore-esque zeitgeist of the time. Her works exist in a Western political environment that was teeming with neoconservatism, wartime propaganda, and post-9/11 paranoia. I mean, the hero worship of Mandalorians isn't too far removed from our attitude towards our own military forces. I remember a lot of Mandalorian fans being military men. With time, we looked back and realized the fascist overtones of what the West built and thus Traviss's work started looking more and more uncomfortable.

Karen Traviss is hilariously bad, but a lot of us held those same views. Before criticizing her, we must first self-criticize the Karen Traviss that exists within us all.

Her work would be completely unacceptable in the current EU, for example, unless she was writing a Villain Episode.

edited 7th Jan '17 9:31:24 AM by CrimsonZephyr

Our military never set out to conquer the world. We never engaged in wars purely for their own sake. We value our military because its members protect us. We don't value them for the corporate interests they get thrown around to protect.

The Mandalorians? Outside of Skirata's clan, they fight purely for its own sake and don't protect anything. They don't stand for anything outside of battle. Hell, they don't even care if they win or lose, as long as they fight a good fight. Traviss created her own people and put them out there as "real" Mandos when the that couldn't be farther from the truth.

You know, I find that a bit funny given her writing for Halo where she basically turned all that up to eleven while having her designated heroes practically invoke Godwin's Law on her punching bag she blamed for everything her heroes bosses were responsible for or who took up to eleven.

Out of the dozens of wars the US has been in, there are at most a handful that could be argued to have protected American citizens. The Spanish-American War didn't, a dozen different invasions of Latin American countries didn't, WWI didn't, the Korean War didn't (may have been good for South Korea, but US security was never in peril), the Vietnam War didn't, the First Gulf War didn't, the Iraq War didn't (probably seriously detracted from it in fact...). Most of the people the US has fought weren't even capable of attacking the US, and many weren't interested in doing so either.

I think Zephyr's on the right track. The neocons are pretty open about promoting American empire. Traviss' militarism appeals to that sort of attitude.

edited 13th Jan '17 2:09:35 PM by Galadriel

Just gonna point out that protecting a country is a lot more than just protecting the soil and the local people. It's also about protecting allies and ensuring world events continue in a way that doesn't negatively affect said country.

I'm also gonna digress from that topic, since this isn't really the place for a political discussion, and get back to the main question. "Why all the Karen Traviss hate?"

I still maintain that the people who dislike her do so for the plot and character derailment she pulls in some books and series, along with her occasional verbal attack on the internet.

That's exactly what it is. It's because she twists things around to fit her own agenda and if someone calls her on it or gets mad at her for it she gets defensive and attacks people.

She's a good writer but she can be a bad author. The two aren't exactly the same thing. A writer puts words to paper. An author gets their words published and engages with the public about them.

I can respect that, but I stand by my previous statement that Traviss's bizarre, Colonel Kilgore-esque exaltation of warfare, military men, and warrior cultures comes off as being really emblematic of an era where the Western world was drunk on jingoism, and what gave them mainstream appeal that's since been replaced by a suspicion of the excesses of militarism. My point was that they come off as Unintentional Period Piece works because the narrative is overwhelmingly pro-military in an era where "boots on the ground" warfare is basically political poison in America and overt displays of military fervor is kind of passe. I mean, it's not limited to her. Legacy of the Force was basically "The War on Terror IN SPACE!" complete with Jacen Solo ranting about terrorists while being a tyrant. And to bring it back to Star Wars, creating a picture perfect warrior society as a direct counterpoint to sniveling, hypocritical democratic governments and the religious order dedicated to protecting it, comes off as completely inappropriate in a series that says "Wars not make one great."

I can't speak to her work in other settings, but the amount of glorification that the Mandalorians got in Star Wars made me really uncomfortable, in a "how fascist is this woman?" kind of way. Combined with her basic lack of respect for the setting, the allegations that she's a horrible collaborator in multi-author projects, and being totally contemptuous of anyone who levels criticism at her work, and I can say I'm glad this corrosive woman isn't writing Star Wars anymore.

edited 20th Feb '17 7:35:56 AM by CrimsonZephyr

Her work in Halo is pretty bad on that count with zero self awareness. And exceptionally bad on respect for the setting with characters claiming things they were personally present for discussing never happened and so gives them the moral high ground over her designated punching bag.

Precisely. Mendez went from his original "this is a dirty job, but if it has to be done, I'LL do it" feeling in Halo The Fallof Reach and Halo Ghostsof Onyx to a "How DARE you make me do this" sort of attitude regarding Halsey and the Spartans.

Halsey goes from her calculated and logical self in Halo First Strike and other stories to "Get out of my way! I'M the smart one!"

And Admiral Pero-Peras-perosk.... Admiral Head ONI Spook accuses Halsey of "murdering" both the Spartan-I Is and their clones, ignoring the fact that, before Reach, the Head ONI Spook in Charge would be the one to okay everything Halsey did in the name of ONI and the UNSC. Every drop of blood on Halsey's hands was also on her's.

In the end, Mendez and Halsey feel like completely different people, and Spooky ONI Admiral feels like an old woman that's afraid of the afterlife. But instead of repenting, she's trying to shift the blame onto other people. (Dear god spellig that name. Is that Russian? Icelandic?)