Rename: The Niles

The Niles fits the usual profile:

1. Named after a secondary character from a work
2. Character (nearly- admittedly I can't think of another Niles) fails the One Mario Limit (if only because Frasier isn't subject to as much Popcultural Osmosis as Mario)
3. Not the character's foremost attribute

I'd go with something like Replacement Shallow.

Why "shallow"? He's not replacing a "shallow" character, he's replacing a stuffy or stilted character.

Straight Man Substitute.

Oh, I like that one!

Straight Man Substitute works.

But... The Niles isn't replacing the Straight Man; he's replacing the Funny Man!

Also, I like Niles!

Hey we all like Niles :D

Making a guess before I read the article The Niles must refer to bitingly witty dapper dandies. That's my best guess at what the character is best known for.

Check the article ... waaaay off. This is one of the many problems with character named tropes: classic characters are almost never known for one thing. In this case the name is referencing something that few fans of Frasier (I'm guessing) would have in their top ten associations. Especially since Frasier himself is just as capable as Niles as being the geeky/stilted/figure-of-fun character as the comedy demands. I can see where the article was going with the name but it's not at all clear-cut.

I'm a bit confused by this trope now — is it Substitute Straight Man or Replacement Clown? Or perhaps just

• Substitute Sap

(which can be either as long as they are butt of the joke.)

edited 25th Mar '10 5:37:57 AM by Camacan

Substitute Straight Man is confusing. The article is clear misusing Straight Man itself since it is giving the role of the quirky characteristics.

Making it a character named trope is also confusing because this is not really like a trope about a characteristic, it's a trope about a relative position in the cast. It's like every other character named trope is an adjective and this is an adverb.

The character is being more X to make up for the main character whose Xness is being toned down so I would call it something like The Quirkier Brother, trying to get the emphasise on the -er.

Horrible name. Niles isn't even a proper example, as some of the natter points out.

What? Niles is a perfect example of this trope! But perhaps not intuitive for many tropers, hence the proposed re-name.

The replacement names seem to miss the point; it's not about a specific character trait like "Shallow" or "Straight Man"; it's about the fact that the new guy acts like the old guy used to, prior to all that character development.

I'd go for something like Role Successor.

New Character Old Characterization?

Stereotype Successor?

I think Role Replacement is an interesting new supertrope. I don't think the existing article is that broad. As the article text stands, it is restricted to Replacement Sap situations rather than being any character introduced to fill a role vacated by character development.

edited 29th Mar '10 5:24:44 PM by Camacan

The Dweeb Of Dweebs? Oversimplification of the situation, but I think it's memorable at least.

It's memorable, but it's not really relevant to this trope. He's not an extreme example of anything, and he's not always a dweeb.

I get what you're saying, as that's the obvious first intrepretation of the name, but that's not what I meant when I suggested it. I meant that he is the Dweeb for the newly reborn Ex-Dweeb. And yeah, "Dweeb" is sort of a placeholder because the trope is probably going to be too broad not to overgeneralize a bit in the name.

So then howabout Archetype Understudy?

edited 29th Mar '10 5:55:02 PM by Shadowtext

Replacement Funny Man?

More Eccentric Than Thou?

edited 2nd Apr '10 6:30:09 AM by BlueIce-Tea

This seems to be supplementing "The Square" with "The Stick," perhaps something along those lines.

I will miss "The Niles," though. I still miss "The Daria"

Wow, I'm half-tempted to not only rename the trope, but to outright cutlist it.

If the Trope Namer isn't even an example, and half the examples look weakish...

Hmm, I guess the Chuck example is a pretty good one, though.

I don't think we're all agreed that Niles himself does not fit. What may be confusing is that Niles underwent character development: he's a clear example at the start of his arc but by the end the show needed a new "Niles" to replace Niles himself who was now a rounded character.

I think skzip887 is right: The Niles is primarily The Stick becoming The Square or a more rounded character so the show needs a new Stick to maintain the full complement of Sitcom Character Archetypes.

It's a pity we haven't found a popular replacement name: depending on the reader knowing a particular show isn't good.

Character Rounding Leaves A Square Hole

? :D

edited 13th Sep '10 12:44:46 AM by Camacan

The problem with this one is that it's hard to sum up in four words or less and still have people know what they should be typing in the search bar. I like "New Character, Old Characterization" except "Old" doesn't necessarily imply that the characterization belonged to a since-developed character on the same show as said new character. It could simply mean that we've seen this type of character before, therefore making almost every character in all of media a candidate.

I do, however, agree that "The Niles" isn't a particularly good title.

edited 2nd Oct '10 9:40:55 AM by Wackd

?

There's nothing there.

This one's really ancient, isn't it? It links to Jonas Quinn. Ouch. Rename is long overdue, probably a rewrite as well. How about Meet The New Loser or something like that?

edited 2nd Oct '10 10:07:28 AM by savage

^^ Apparently there's a glitch with these TRS thread links, where it links to a namespaced version of the page (in this case, it goes to https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TheNiles/TheNiles). I'll go make a thread in Wiki Talk about this.

The correct page is here.