Brainstorming a Non-Standard Fantasy Setting

The bare bones of this idea have been rattling around in my brain for over a year now, but I've only really been putting serious thought to it for about the past month or so. The idea is still forming, but it's starting to take shape.

Essentially it's a sort of limbo world. Basically, anybody who commits suicide winds up there to live out the rest of their natural days, and the world is populated by these people and their descendants. My initial thinking was that anybody who died a violent, premature death would end up there, but the logistics of that just seemed too convoluted, so I narrowed it down to something more manageable. I'm only just beginning to figure out the plot and characters, but for now I'll keep this topic focused on the worldbuilding aspects.

Essentially, the physical laws that govern this world are rather more "fluid" than the laws that govern our own. The supernatural elements here tend to be related to the human psyche or subconscious. As a result, ideas, thoughts, philosophies, pathos, beliefs, fears, personal willpower, etc. can all have a tangible impact on the world, a person, or one's surroundings, and it can manifest in virtually limitless ways.

The notion of people from the here and now winding up in this place after killing themselves begs questions of how it impacts the technology. While I don't want a gun-heavy setting with modern day warfare doctrines, I also don't just want to handwave it away in favor of the standard medieval fantasy swords-and-spears cliche. Rather, I've been trying to imagine creative ways the nature of this world could impact, limit, or even enhance technology and combat. I imagine some steampunk, clockpunk, and dieselpunk being involved, but I don't just want to keep falling back on various iterations of punkpunk either. I've got some ideas, but maybe I'll get more into that later.

Another thing that occurred to me is that there are a lot of historically or culturally significant groups or societies with rather high rates of suicide either among their members or their leadership, and I've been thinking on how the sudden or gradual appearance of large numbers of these people could impact the history and the cultural/political geography of this world. To list a few examples:

A lot of the Nazi higher ups offed themselves during the war and especially after the war started going bad.

Ritual suicide in feudal Japan and its resurgence during WWII.

I'm pretty sure it was fairly common among Patricians in ancient Rome, but I need to do some more research on this.

Islamic suicide bombers.

Various suicide cults.

There was a battle waaaaaaay back in Chinese history that involved one of the armies sending something on the order of ten-thousand criminals and prisoners onto the frontlines and having them slit their own throats in front of the enemy as a psychological tactic. I learned about it back in high school and I've been having trouble finding specific references to the battle online. If anybody knows what I'm talking about, please chime in.

But yeah, that's the basics of it. As further food for thought, here are a few random but interesting ideas I had for the setting:

A giant, self-aware clockwork brain with thousands of people living in it as a city.

A completely dualistic society with philosophical foundations in Taoism (about which I need to do some more research before I commit to this notion)

An order of ascetic monks who focus their willpower into honing the mind and body to function at superhuman levels

A forest sprouted from a large graveyard (possibly an old battlefield?) where every gravesite sprouts a completely unique tree.

Basically I want to include lots of weird, esoteric, or otherwise unusual ideas like that to shape the setting into something genuinely fantastic (y'know, what with it being *fantasy* and all — I can't begin to tell you how much issue I take with all the Tolkienesque ripoffs and cliches out there. Elves and dragons have been run into the ground for so long that they're mundane now, and I no longer consider them to be fantastic, but I suppose that's a semantics issue so I'll stop bitching about it now).

So, yeah, Idunno. There you have it.

edited 20th Sep '10 1:46:44 AM by TheBadinator

... Well, you get points for originality, that's for sure. The only "special afterlife for suicides" I know of is where they turn into trees.

Sounds interesting.

But look into folklore and myths around the world for ideas, too. That's what the genre founders of fantasy did.

edited 20th Sep '10 7:36:24 AM by krrackknut

I like it. One thing that wasn't explicitly stated, but seemed to be implied is that this "afterlife" is like Earth; it is in fact Earth but with only suicide people and supernatural elements. Is this the case, or what is the geography / cosmology like? What is the connection between our world and their world? I like the supernatural angle; in fact I'm general of the opinion that something isn't supernatural unless it is psychological in some sense. See here for details. Make some mind projection fallacies; have fun with it. Still, remember that SCIENCE! as method still exists; people can learn about their environment. Even if the laws of nature are fluid, odds are the meta-laws are not, or if they are, the meta-meta-laws aren't...etc.

Also, important: Do Darwin Award winners show up? The work/setting seems serious and the idea a bit out of place...but as a sort of one-shot piece, you could show a support group for the people that killed themselves in really stupid ways, ideally for a Crowning Moment of (Dark) Funny.

What specifically are you looking for in the way of ideas? What someone would like to see in this sort of setting? What could make it a more cohesive whole? What best to DO with the setting? All very different question with very different answers.

^

On geography/cosmology: That's one thing I've had trouble settling on. Geographically, I don't think I want the landscape to be terribly earth like. I've juggled a few ideas around, but nothing's really stuck in my mind yet. I've thought about making it your standard, astronomically correct round world, just with different landscapes, I've thought about reversing the earth's land and water, but the idea seemed a little trite, and I've thought about making it a flat world, or perhaps even a world that stretches out infinitely in every direction. One of my favorite things to see in fantasy is a truly unique landscape — Discworld and Riceboy both come to mind.

On SCIENCE!: I'm glad that you brought that up, actually. I'm kind of a physics hobbyist, and one of the things it's been most fun to imagine is how this world might differ in that regard to ours. The main character I have in mind, in fact, was a physics major before offing himself, and part of his "schtick" as a hero will be applying the scientific method to situations or even coming up with wacky, mad science contraptions/solutions/what have you. I'm thinking I'll use him as a vehicle for exposition about the cosmology and the nature of the afterlife world.

On Darwin Awards: I hadn't thought of that, actually. The setting is serious, but I've never felt that should stop a story from using comedic moments to enhance the drama or contrast the darker ones.

As to what I'm looking for: Basically any thoughts, questions, difficulties, or potential inconsistencies that come to mind. One of the things that helps me come up with ideas or smooth out the rough edges in a concept is when people ask me really challenging questions about it. I'm curious to hear what people like or don't like about it, or the sorts of things they'd like to see in a setting like this too, though.

Reminds me of Riverworld.

On the D-Awards: The real reason I ask that question is what counts as a "suicide". It's a nontrivial problem; for example, what about someone who commits suicide by cop, or puts themselves in a situation where they are likely to be killed (such a volunteering for a dangerous task). What happens if they don't know that they have done so? What about people who play Russian Roulette - the did shoot themselves, but they might not have intended to die? What about inadvertent suicide while under the influence of mind-altering substances - or deliberate suicide while under the influence of mind altering substances? That's probably the weakest area I see - just saying "suicides" doesn't cover nearly the range of possibilities.

On SCIENCE!: Just had an awesome idea. Main character is mentored by Alan Turing, who in this world is a badass due to his understanding of computation and his ability to apply it to the reality warping nature of the world. Is mildly cheesed that his theory doesn't quite work in this world. Allows for exposition of sort, albiet with a more computer-y bent.

On geography/cosmology/some demographics: Hrm. One important element of this is that this is an afterlife, not just a fantasy realm. You constantly have an influx of people from this other world who died. Everyone is going to be a little cheesed that this isn't the afterlife they expected. I'd expect that some people would, consciously or not, create the afterlife they expected - maybe not the most accurate version, but the most accurate representation of what they represent. So maybe the layout of the various domains is consistent, but the boundaries in between domains are a bit odd.

Actually, that give me an idea. The stronger/more consistent an area's pattern is, the deeper it sinks. The world consists of a series of deep pits, separated by mountain roads. Where the roads intersect, a trading hub of sorts develops, taking things from one pit and trading it with its neighbors. The really fantastic things you talk about in the OP grow along the edges or at the hubs; the intersection of ideas causes weird stuff to happen, regardless of what the originating beliefs.

It's just an idea, but is that the sort of thing you are looking for?

edited 20th Sep '10 11:35:30 AM by Acatalepsy

You could get around the different types of suicide issue by specifying that it's only for people who had a particular state of mind where they deliberately wanted to end their lives.

So someone who volunteers for a dangerous task but doesn't seriously consider the risk can be ruled out but someone who volunteers becuase they want to die would be allowed in.

^ and ^^: You both make good points, and the issue of "what counts as a suicide" is one I've put a thought to. My inclination is to keep it fairly simple — for the purposes of winding up in this world, suicide can probably best be defined as knowingly and deliberately ending your life by your own hand. Thus, no suicide missions, death by cop, etc, accidentally switching up your meds, nothing like that.

Also @ Acatalepsy: That's right, I forgot that Turing killed himself. That introduces a lot of interesting possibilities, actually.

On demographics/constant influx of the dead: it's another issue I've had to think hard about. Something on the order of a million people kill themselves every year. I figure you can pare the number down a bit if you keep a stricter standard of suicide (see above), plus I figure some people might freak out and try to off themselves again, and others might not last long, given that it's a strange and dangerous world they just suddenly popped into. Basically, I want there to be enough suicidals popping in to have a steady and constant impact on the course of history, but not so many that they start crowding in the people who were born and raised there — after all to those people, this isn't the afterlife, it's just "the world", and the people who keep popping into it are the oddities, not the other way around.

On Riverworld: I've never read it, but if there's one thing I love it's a fantasy world with a truly unique cosmology, so I may have to set aside some time for it.

But yeah, Acatalpsy, that's basically the sort of feedback I'm interested in hearing, though any form is welcome.

You'd probably want some interesting way of being transported to the afterlife, rather than just have them appear there. Also, Psychopomps. Don't know if you want nonhuman characters. I recall that in some theories becoming a psychopomp was the actual punishment for suicide, though that's probably an idea you won't be able to use.

Looks interesting so far.

Check out the movie Wristcutters. The premise of the movie is that people who commit suicide go to a special afterlife that is basically a more depressing Real Life, only with random miracles.

Badinator, How is your brainstorming going?