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Original post by lee4hmz

Problem: During the cleanup for another TRS thread, it was found that Will They or Won't They? attracted a lot of zero-context and low-context examples, often just giving a couple's names and a "yeah they got together" tag afterward. The trope really doesn't work well without more context, and the Stock Phrase-y nature of the name is probably not helping. It may also possibly be a duplicate of Ship Tease.

Proposed Solution: Preferably, merge with Ship Tease. At minimum, rename the page to something less like a Stock Phrase, and thus less likely to cause misuse.

The wick check for this thread is at Sandbox.Will They Or Wont They Wick Check.

Wick check:

While doing the cleanup for They Do, I noticed that Will They or Won't They? seems to be both a Pothole Magnet and a Zero-Context Example magnet. Frequently, examples would be nothing but a couple's names (sometimes multiple couples were listed), often with a tag at the end saying "they got together" or "they didn't get together". Examples for this trope don't really work that well unless they make some effort to detail the events in the relationship in question before the Relationship Upgrade (if any), so just listing names seems incomplete. Additionally, the name is a Stock Phrase, which makes it prone to this kind of problem by nature.

What to do about this? There are a couple of possibilities:

  • Rename the trope to something less Stock Phrase-y. Alternatively, a merge with Ship Tease or Unresolved Sexual Tension may work, but we'd have to discuss that further (the former is probably a better fit).
  • In either case, remove or expand all zero-context and low-context examples and sinkholes.

    open/close all folders 

     Statistics 

55 wicks checked

60 entries found

Correct: 8/60

Misuse/lacking context: 21/60

Not sure: 7/60

Potholes (may or may not be correct): 24/60

    Correct usage 
Webcomic.Death And The Maiden:

  • Will They or Won't They?: Mercedes and Death. It's pretty obvious that they have a thing for each other, but they're both too stubborn to admit it. Could probably use more context, but seems to be OK

Characters.The Big Bang Theory Penny:

  • Will They or Won't They?: With Leonard, although his interest in her is admittedly much stronger. The show built upon the first two seasons of flirting and false starts just to get them officially together. They break up before the end of the third season and don't get back together until midway through the fifth season. They spend the next year or so trying to feel secure enough being together (Leonard's insecure about her attractiveness, Penny's insecure about his intelligence) and once they both come to grips with what they want out of their relationship they get engaged at the end of the seventh season. And even from there, their engagement takes time but eventually culminates in marriage. Correct, plenty of context here

WebVideo.Critical Role Campaign One:

  • Will They or Won't They?:
    • After his surprise confession, Vax and Keyleth spend about 30 episodes awkwardly negotiating their feelings and dealing with numerous complications before things are finally settled between them with Keyleth's confession in Episode 65. correct
    • Ever since the first custom arrow, Percy and Vex's Ship Tease had been going on for anywhere between twenty-four and fifty-four episodes before Vex declares her love for him in Episode 69. As of Episode 72, they become a couple, after Percy gives Vex The Big Damn Kiss in the forest outside Draconia. correct

Webcomic.Who Made Me A Princess:

  • Will They or Won't They?: The webcomic placed Athanasia's Ship Tease with Lucas and Izekiel as this trope at the end of the main webcomic with little confirmation of whether or not Athanasia ends up with one of them. correct

Series.Holby City:

  • Will They or Won't They?: Subverted with Bernie and Serena. By the time the former runs off to Ukraine on secondment, the only people who aren't sure whether or not they'll get together in the end are Bernie and Serena themselves — it being obvious to everyone else with eyes that the two were practically made for each other. Correct, though I'm not sure this trope can be played with?

Characters.Lunarosse:

  • Will They or Won't They?: With Esau. They have several moments, but nothing is confirmed. Not much context, but enough to get the gist. Calling this one Correct.

Who's the Boss?:

  • Will They or Won't They?: Tony and Angela danced around the subject for so long (and in such increasingly ridiculous ways) that the supporting characters more or less hung a permanent Lampshade Hanging over it. It seemed they finally hooked up out of the desperation of the producers (they were an official couple only for half of the show's final season) than out of any real dramatic intent. Correct

FireEmblemThreeHouses.Tropes S To Z:

  • Will They or Won't They?: If Byleth of either gender S-Supports Edelgard in her route, it is mentioned that the two spend a lot of time together and share private moments with each other, but nothing is too publicly known. A similar description is given for Edelgard's other suitors if she gets S-Supports with them instead, except it's more blatant that they're romantically involved. The ending text, like in other Fire Emblem games, describes how historians view the unit, and omits anything that is not public knowledge. The actual S-support scene with Byleth will be blatantly romantic. Correct; one of the best examples I've found so far.

     Zero- and low-context examples 
Series.The Doctor Blake Mysteries:

Series.ANT Farm:

  • Will They or Won't They?: Chyna and Fletcher, in "EndurANTs" and "SignificANT Other". Just two names; yeah, it mentions the episode titles, but that doesn't help much, so I'm counting it.

Characters.Batman The Animated Series Rogues Gallery Part 1:

  • Will They or Won't They?: With Batman. They don't. note  More characteristic misuse; names two characters and says if it was resolved, but no other details.

Characters.The Wallflower:

Series.Casualty 1906:

Manga.Legend Of Chun Hyang:

Webcomic.Kill Your Darlings:

Series.Mirai Sentai Timeranger:

Characters.Star Trek Deep Space Nine Federation And Bajor:

Characters.Bloody Roar:

  • Will They or Won't They?: There's a lot of ship teasing between him and Alice.
    • This gets dropped in Bloody Roar 4 in favor of shipping between Yugo and Nagi, and hastily so. Needless to say, people didn't take that too kindly. Just mentions some names and that there was Ship Tease involved, and I'm not sure that's enough context.

  • Will They or Won't They?: She had moments of ship tease with Yugo, but it was ultimately left hanging in part 4. Better, but still kind of weak.

  • Will They or Won't They?: The series subtly implies that his partnership with Jenny may not be strictly professional. Well, good for them, but you have to tell us more.

  • Will They or Won't They?: As noted in Gado's section, the series subtly implies she and Gado may have more than a working class relationship. As above.

Webcomic.Girls With Slingshots:

  • Will They or Won't They?: Hazel and Zach, Thea and Angel, Clarice and Joshua; #1 and #3 they do, but it hasn't worked well for Hazel though. Just a bunch of names, almost no context.

Characters.All My Children:

  • Will They or Won't They?: Had this with Frankie, Lena, Maggie, and Marissa. Subverted with Reese, as they were already together when she was introduced. Just a bunch of names.

Recap.Penny And Aggie 202020 Pennies:

  • Will They or Won't They?: In at least one potential future, Penny and Aggie do. Just two names and some not-very-relevant context.

Characters.Peaky Blinders:

Series.The House Of Eliott:

Series.Spin City:

  • Will They or Won't They?: Mike & Nikki played with this for a season, but it was ultimately dropped in favour of Mike/Caitlin. Then there was Charlie/Caitlin. Just a bunch of names.

     Not sure 

Webcomic.The Less Than Epic Adventures Of TJ And Amal:

  • Will They or Won't They?: More subtle and organic than in most cases where this trope is used, to the point where you could see them being good friends just as easily as lovers. They get a Relationship Upgrade. Doesn't quite discuss the details of the relationship as much as I'd like, but it does discuss them, so I'm leaning toward Correct.

Fanfic.Eiga Sentai Scanranger:

Myth Arc:

  • Archer: A recurring mystery throughout the series is the identity of Archer's biological father.
    • The Will They or Won't They? dynamic between Archer and Lana has had quite a lot of focus and build up since the beginning. Mentions there's a dynamic, but doesn't go into any detail about it.

Manga.Skip Beat:

  • Will They or Won't They?: Between Ren and Kyoko, to the point that a significant portion of the fan base has to take periodic breaks from the series due to sheer frustration. Yes, but please tell us why the fans are frustrated!

Anime.Waiting In The Summer:

  • Will They or Won't They?: Kaito and Ichika very quickly become at first obvious, and then real Official Couole, while Mio and Tatsuro become Beta Couple. However, Ichika flies at the end of the show and despite the obvious Sequel Hook, the show slightly hints that Kana might still have feelings for him. There's context here, but the example is written so weirdly that I'm not even sure it fits the trope.

Fanfic.Lost In Translation Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle:

  • Will They or Won't They?: it’s implied that Kurogane and Fai have had this kind of relationship ever since the events of the series concluded. Not sure what to think of this one. There's context, but I'm not sure how helpful it is.

Literature.Kenzie And Gennaro Series:

  • Will They or Won't They?: Patrick and Angie in the beginning, until they hook up in the second book and officially get together in the third. It's then double subverted when Angie moves out at the end of Gone Baby Gone, but in the next book they get back together for good and have a daughter by the sixth. More context than I'm used to seeing, but it doesn't describe the relationship in much detail other than "it happened". Putting this in Not Sure because I need a second opinion.

     Potholes and other 
Above the Influence:

Family Relationship Switcheroo:

  • Haven has a supernatural variation. Audrey has spent much of seasons 1-3 trying to solve the murder of the Colorado Kid, and in the process has discovered she has fake memories and several past lives. When she is told that Lucy, her most recent incarnation, loved the Colorado Kid, she assumes that means romantically. However, late in season 3 she finds out he's actually her son, the result of a time traveling liaison with another past life, Lucy, and her Will They or Won't They? partner, Nathan. Pothole, but seems to be correct

Recap.Its Always Sunny In Philadelphia S 09 E 03 The Gang Tries To Win An Award:

  • Shout-Out: Sudz is an obvious reference to Cheers and similar sitcoms that followed in its footsteps, with Greg and Amanda acting as a Sam and Diane-style Will They or Won't They? couple. Pothole, but seems to be correct

Pantheon.Physical Appearance:

WMG.Firefly:

  1. To provide romantic will-they-won't-they with Kaylee. Pothole, correct

Characters.Robin Tim Drake:

PoorlyDisguisedPilot.Live Action TV:

  • Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D.:
    • The Season 2 finale was meant to lead into a spin-off starring Mockingbird, which is why the episode ends with her supposedly leaving the team. ABC ended up passing, so Mockingbird was reabsorbed into the show the very next episode. Said episode also Retconned the scene where she expressed the desire to leave the team by claiming she was actually saying she couldn't stand her Will They or Won't They? dynamic with Hunter anymore. Pothole, correct

AlternativeCharacterInterpretation.Western Animation:

Naked First Impression:

  • On The Bill, Luke Ashton is splashed with mud on his first day back at Sun Hill and decides to sneak in a quick shower before reporting to his new superior officer. Said officer DS Craig Gilmore loses patience with Luke's tardiness and comes looking for him. This is the beginning of their Will They Or Won't They situation. Pothole, correct

Bedmate Reveal:

  • In the last episode of season 1 of Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Boyle's fiancee breaks up with him, and he tries everything to get over it. In the penultimate scene, he's getting trashed with Rosa, who admits that she's never had a good boyfriend "like him". Snap to the next morning, where he wakes up confused in an unfamiliar bed... with Gina, who he's never had any feelings for whatsoever. Pothole, no context

Pantheon.Romantic Interest:

  • Many agree that watching Ladybug and Cat Noir flirting and waiting for the "Will They or Won't They?" moment is better than any soap operas they ever watched. And there was a lot of cheering when Marinette finally kissed Adrien at the end of Season 2. Well, on the cheek, but still. Pothole, correct

MenageA3.Tropes G To L:

  • Karma of a sort finally catches up with Matt in the course of his Will They or Won't They? arc with Kiley, when she breaks up with him over his treatment of Gary. The guidance system has taken over a thousand strips to kick in, mind you... Pothole, correct

Myth Arc:

Kiss of Life:

  • This trope is played straight in various ways in YuYu Hakusho when to return back to life, Yusuke must get someone to kiss him at the correct time. This results in some hilarity when he sends dreams to his rival, Kuwabara, to suggest this, which Kuwabara takes as a nightmare (the actual kiss is censored in some versions). It's also milked for the the Will They or Won't They? tension with his love interest, Keiko, as well as the overall drama of the situation. In the end, Keiko barely manages to arrive to Yusuke's apartment and kisses him right on time (and with less of a second to spare!), reviving him. Pothole, looks correct

Characters.Star Trek The Original Series:

  • Suspiciously Similar Substitute: She herself is one, to Yeoman Colt from "The Cage" and Yeoman Smith from "Where No Man Has Gone Before". A Will They or Won't They? romance between the Captain and his female Yeoman (note that both Pike and Kirk explicitly complain about their Yeoman being a woman) was a key element of Roddenberry's concept for the series from the very beginning, and it took quite some time (and him stepping down as active showrunner in favour of Gene Coon) before it was finally abandoned. Pothole, looks OK

Heroes.Tropes R To U:

  • Satellite Love Interest: Occurs in both Will They or Won't They?-type scenarios and established relationships: Love Interests frequently have no interaction with the plot (sometimes despite seemingly pressing motives to get involved) or other characters aside from whoever's Love Interest they are. Let's see, Simone, Janice, Mira, Heidi, Caitlin, West, Yaeko, Gretchen, Kimiko... in a few cases, if the Love Interest existed entirely inside their partner's head, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. And when characters with their own semi-developed storylines and personalities manage to get paired up, there's a tendency for the woman to be Demoted to Satellite Love Interest, then written off. (But, at least, Maya's decision to just exit the plot entirely and move out of town is, refreshingly, about the wisest choice anyone ever makes on the show.) Pothole, looks OK

Wedding Bells... for Someone Else:

You only have a couple of pages to finish and the book is about to end... Or there are only a few minutes left from the screen time of the movie... Or you are pumped for this sit-com rom-com season finale. Aww, look! The guy and his crush are finally together. Their unresolved sexual tension is getting resolved. After all that Will They or Won't They? we are happy to find out that they will. Or perhaps the sweethearts made up after their Second-Act Breakup. Perhaps the girl unsure about her Arranged Marriage has finally decided to go through with it. And look, the happy couple is even tying the knot. Pothole in description, looks OK

Series.Whos The Boss:

  • Marry the Nanny: Angela hires Tony as a housekeeper. She becomes a mother figure for Tony's daughter Samantha and Tony becomes a father figure for Angela's son Jonathan. They begin a long Will They or Won't They? relationship, with marriage being considered. Pothole, looks OK

Haiku.Pride And Prejudice:

Will Elizabeth
and Darcy get together?
Will Jane and Bingley? Pothole; not sure about this one, since it's being used correctly, but it's also a Chained Sinkhole.

Characters.How I Met Your Mother Other Characters

  • Derailing Love Interests: The writers had to get rid of him, but (in order to keep the Will They or Won't They? going) couldn't simply have Robin leave him for Barney. The solution? Introduce a need to have kids that had never been mentioned at any point before (which didn't even come up when it would be appropriate, such as when he was painting a nursery or when Robin learns she can't have kids). Pothole, looks OK

BelligerentSexualTension.Anime And Manga:

[...]
  • Hiei and Mukuro may also fit this trope, with The Masochism Tango that doesn't seem to dampen Hiei's interest (even Kurama notes it). Not quite the same since she's only introduced in the last arc, and their hinted attraction is too early to be a Will They or Won't They?. Hiei and Mukuro are pretty much canon. They respect each other, like each other, and he brings her her evil and abusive father trapped in a healing plant that Kurama especially got for such a purpose to torture for eternity as a present. Practically romantic for Hiei—or, for that matter, for Mukuro; just keep in mind neither are exactly normal—this is likely the best way each can convey their feelings. Pothole, correct

Tear Dryer:

  • The World of Suzie Wong has one hell of a Downer Ending in sight where Suzie only forgives Robert because she needs help rescuing her baby during a storm. Then the storm turns into an earthquake, and the baby dies! The final scene is a funeral for Young Winston, with Suzie and Robert in attendance. At the end of the funeral, Robert proposes, confirming that this Will They or Won't They? couple will be alright.
    Suzie: Robert, I'll be with you until you say "Suzie, go away"...
    Robert: That long? Pothole, looks OK.

Series.Telechat:

[...]

Edited by Berrenta on Jul 18th 2023 at 9:14:09 AM

Twiddler (On A Trope Odyssey)
#26: Jul 14th 2023 at 10:07:14 PM

[tup] to making fan speak, since it's used off-site, and moving examples to other tropes as appropriate.

[tdown] to doing anything with Unresolved Sexual Tension without a wick check for it.

Edited by Twiddler on Jul 15th 2023 at 1:51:33 AM

MorganWick (Elder Troper)
#27: Jul 15th 2023 at 3:59:39 AM

[tdown] to merging with Unresolved Sexual Tension as I'm pretty sure that's a pre-existing term. Notably, the oldest archived version of the UST page just directed people to Will They or Won't They? for details and examples, but I do think it's probably more appropriate for WTOWT to be the Fan Speak page and UST to have the examples, which is in keeping with my stance back then. (That discussion also includes one troper's potential distinction between the two.)

(Weirdly, by 2007 both pages had extensive example sections, but the WTOWT page said "also known as UST" and the UST page still had the same bare-bones description as before.)

Edited by MorganWick on Jul 15th 2023 at 4:13:37 AM

selkies Professional Wick Checker Since: Jan, 2021 Relationship Status: Star-crossed
Professional Wick Checker
#28: Jul 15th 2023 at 4:33:49 AM

Make it a fanspeak page.

GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#29: Jul 16th 2023 at 2:50:30 AM

Hooked a crowner for what to do with this.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
GastonRabbit MOD Sounds good on paper (he/him) from Robinson, Illinois, USA (General of TV Troops) Relationship Status: I'm just a poor boy, nobody loves me
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
#30: Jul 18th 2023 at 3:21:12 AM

Calling in favor of turning into a Definition-Only Page.

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.
Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#31: Jul 18th 2023 at 7:10:30 AM

Since we're not removing all wicks, starting a sandbox to track wicks here.

We don't need to check Main/ wicks.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
lee4hmz 486-powered rotating frosted cherry Pop-Tart from A shipwreck in the tidal Potomac (Before Recorded History) Relationship Status: Chocolate!
486-powered rotating frosted cherry Pop-Tart
#32: Jul 28th 2023 at 1:09:41 AM

It looks like not much has happened since the thread was called. Is there anything I can help with?

online since 1993 | huge retrocomputing and TV nerd | lee4hmz.info (under construction) | heapershangout.com
Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#33: Jul 28th 2023 at 6:18:52 AM

A lot of other efforts are being done over this one, since we have plenty of starred threads.

I did take one wick out recently during another effort.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Synchronicity (4 Score & 7 Years Ago)
#34: Jul 28th 2023 at 8:05:40 AM

Yep, we mainly have to remove bulleted list examples, which boils down to work (sub)pages + characters + recap (we can assume that a trope-specific subpage like InterspeciesRomance.Comic Books and a moments subpage like Heartwarming.Agent Carter are not using it in a trope list). I've just looked through Anime/ and I think that clears us through A/ and B/.

G-Editor Since: Mar, 2015 Relationship Status: Above such petty unnecessities
#35: Sep 3rd 2023 at 8:51:44 PM

[tup] To merging this trope with Unresolved Sexual tension given how similar both those tropes sound (this is just my opinion)

Edited by G-Editor on Sep 3rd 2023 at 11:54:17 AM

Yindee Just stoic wisdom. from New England Since: Jul, 2016
Just stoic wisdom.
#36: Sep 3rd 2023 at 9:12:17 PM

[up] It was decided in July to make WTOWT a Def-Only page due to it being a real-life term.

Vehicle-Based Characterization | Grief-Induced Split | Locker Mail
Berrenta How sweet it is from Texas Since: Apr, 2015 Relationship Status: Can't buy me love
How sweet it is
#37: Nov 16th 2023 at 3:23:13 PM

I saw that the cleanup page has a couple letters marked, but I saw at least one that uses it as an example. I'll go over the A's again.

she/her | TRS needs your help! | Contributor of Trope Report
Riolugirl Rookie Trope Repairer from whence you came, you shall remain... (Experienced Trainee) Relationship Status: He makes me feel like I have a heart
#38: Feb 26th 2024 at 1:43:04 AM

Not sure what trope to substitute WTOWT with in this example from Series.Holby City:

  • Will They or Won't They?: Subverted with Bernie and Serena. By the time the former runs off to Ukraine on secondment, the only people who aren't sure whether or not they'll get together in the end are Bernie and Serena themselves — it being obvious to everyone else with eyes that the two were practically made for each other.

Edited by Riolugirl on Feb 26th 2024 at 9:43:28 AM

"As long as I have my comrades with me, I can do anything!" (She/Her)
MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#39: Mar 26th 2024 at 2:37:36 PM

Everyone Can See It.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
Add Post

Trope Repair Shop: Will They or Won't They?
16th Jul '23 2:49:02 AM

Crown Description:

Making Will They Or Wont They a Fan Speak Definition Only Page was suggested, since it's a preexisting phrase, as was redirecting to Unresolved Sexual Tension. What should be done with Will They Or Wont They?

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