To-do list:
Consensus was to create two new namespaces for pages currently located in Useful Notes, a Platform/ namespace for media platforms (game consoles, operating systems, etc., like Nintendo Game Cube, Microsoft Windows, and Steam) and a MediaNotes/ namespace for pages containing background information on media, like How Video Game Specs Work or ANSI Standard Broadcast TV Schedule. Thus, the following will need to be done:- Go through the Useful Notes index and see which pages should be moved from UsefulNotes/ to either Platform/ or MediaNotes/.
Original post:
Useful Notes, from what I understand, is meant to be specifically about informing readers about complicated subjects that show up a lot in the media, to help them understand how to properly portray it. These subjects range from historical events to real-life locations and cultures. There's some subjectivity about what's "useful" here, but it's a pretty specific namespace otherwise.However, we also have a class of pages that really don't fit this mold. However, they're in UN because there's no better namespace for them. These are the "media history" pages, such as the pages on various game consoles. They're not work pages because these things aren't tropeworthy, they're not creator pages because they're individual works, tools, or concepts; and they're not trivia because why would they be? They're in Useful Notes because they're informative pages on things related to media, but you'd be hard pressed to say that reading UsefulNotes.Nintendo Game Cube would help you write a book. These pages serve a function that's definitely relevant to the website, but they just don't fit the intended use of Useful Notes.
The reason I'm bringing this up now is because the TRS thread for RetroGaming wants to make it UsefulNotes, which
... I did vote for because at the moment there ain't no rule saying it doesn't go there, but I did make it clear that my true stance is a lot different. I didn't want to derail the discussion though, because Retro Gaming would just be another drop in the ocean, not the problem in and of itself.
This reminds me of the state of the Franchise/ namespace before Derivative Works/ was created pretty recently. The namespace was being used for things it shouldn't be used for simply because we lacked anything more suitable. So one possible solution would just be to create a new namespace for these pages, such as Media History/ or something, to preserve them as their own category.
The other solution is to just expand the definition of "Useful Notes" to include pages like these. I'm not sure I agree with this because in my opinion this would just validate some of the serious decay issues the namespace has (seriously, there are a lot of superfluous pages), but it would also be the easiest thing to do and would allow us to maintain the current status quo.
And of course, you may disagree with me that there's even a problem here at all. I'm just calling it as I see it based on my understanding of the namespace guidelines, especially as UN misuse and bloat has been called out elsewhere in the past.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Feb 23rd 2024 at 1:25:29 PM
I probably would put Mii (and Xbox Avatar) under VideoGame/ tbh. No opinion on the other two
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The parade could go under Series/, as the television broadcast is a major component.
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Bumping this in order to either get additional feedback or get the page migration rolling, whichever is preferred.
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
For Platform at least, it'd be a good idea to get going with those migrations sooner than later because the GoAnimate cleanup thread is on this month's Trope Report, and part of that effort will be migrating stuff from WebAnimation.Goanimate to Platform.Goanimate.
Edited by badtothebaritone on May 31st 2023 at 12:37:48 PM
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![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Also I'd possibly see the same for Shifty Look and Tik Tok, especially to be one step closer to getting rid of the tropeless works section of the Works Needing Tropes page.
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Threw together a rough draft index page at Sandbox.Platforms. Feel free to offer feedback or make changes as needed. (I was a bit on the fence about including mobile phones in the description, but decided to just leave it there for now.)
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
No longer a forum herald
The idea of the Platform namespace also being used for publications like magazines and such was floated in this thread. Bringing it here for feedback.
Thoughts on where game engines (e.g. Unity) should go? They are directly relevant to the creation of works, and may inform the tropes in those works. But they don't fit the definition of a platform. I was thinking either MediaNotes/ or a new namespace, like Software/.
the Retromancer
That reminded me of a App Namespace talk that didn't go much due to lack of potential pages.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Another thing: some things are both platform and engine, like Scratch and Roblox. (Technically I think Roblox is the platform and Roblox Studio is the engine, but I'm pretty sure the page covers both, with a lot of tropes being for the engine.) In those cases, which should be prioritized for the namespace? Should they be lumped into one page?
Previously platform/creator overlap was discussed, and it was proposed that Creator take priority over Platform unless the page is split into Creator and Platform.
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I think MediaNotes/ would work for game engines. I feel that whether to make a Software/ namespace should get its own thread.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 10th 2023 at 2:11:05 PM
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If we are to add that it should be called Software Notes, just to indicate that it's part of that group and software isn't "tropeable".
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I still think that namespace proposal should get its own thread regardless of what we call it, though I won't complain if any of the other mods disagree and are fine with folding it into this one.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Jun 10th 2023 at 5:37:38 AM
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Should websites be considered Platforms? Some websites lack the tropeability, yet these sites host works from those sites.
ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔|I DO COMMISSIONS|ᜇᜎᜈ᜔ᜇᜈ᜔
Sounds good on paper (he/him)
I think we previously discussed that, and I think we did decide that hosting sites like YouTube count as platforms.
the Retromancer
I see Platform/ and MediaNotes/ still have no pages.
Which should be handled first, the new index pages or moving pages at Video Game Systems?
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
I say we start moving pages over so that we can build the indices as we go.
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
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Will The Disney Afternoon et al be affected by these changes?
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
the Retromancer
Don't see how is it relevant.
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
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It feels like programming blocks are getting left by the wayside again, then. No easy namespace to put them in.
I had a dog-themed avatar before it was cool.
the Retromancer
Maybe they need own thread? I'd rather merge them with tgeur channel pages.
Edited by Amonimus on Aug 3rd 2023 at 8:23:55 PM
TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup
He/Him
Just comment here in saying that Website.YouTube to Platform.YouTube will probably be one of the longest wick namespace migrations ever.
That is of course, if we're good with a move. I for one, am fine with the move.
Edited by AudioSpeaks2 on Oct 29th 2023 at 7:44:12 PM
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
He/Him
If we're ever moving Sandbox.Patreon somewhere, Platform/ sounds great.
Art Museum Curator and frequent helper of the Web Original deprecation project
Big Catch, Sparkle Edition
So, should this be renamed and moved to short term like we did with the Derivative Works thread?
Currently Working On: Incorruptible Pure Pureness
Crown Description:
Consensus was to create two new namespaces for pages currently located in Useful Notes, a Platform/ namespace for media platforms (game consoles, operating systems, etc., like Nintendo Game Cube, Microsoft Windows, and Steam) and a second namespace for pages containing background information on media, like How Video Game Specs Work or ANSI Standard Broadcast TV Schedule. The name of the namespace for background information on media hasn't been decided yet, so what should its name be?
Three weird Useful Notes that might be good fits for the Platform namespace, but I'm not certain about, are Lolita Fashion, Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, and Mii. The first two feel like they've been looking for a better namespace for years now, but we're not making "Fashion" and "Parade" namespaces respectively just for them. Mii is a weird one, it's not quite deserving of the "Video Game" namespace since "Miis" themselves are not a game, they're close to a Franchise a la Nintendo's other gaming franchises like Super Mario or Star Fox, but they don't have enough appearances outside of video games to qualify for one, and "Platform" feels like a better fit than "Useful Note", but they aren't hardware. Thoughts?