Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Doom
The Emperor of Evil!
Doom.
Toranaga. Sad I missed the discussion, but I knew he’d pretty much make it easily. Aside from his ending quote, I thought this would be a good one to highlight (from Episode 5: Broken to the Fist):
— Lord Yoshii Toranaga, Shogun2024
Thoughts?
Edited by RoyalCharger on May 14th 2024 at 11:14:22 AM
Goku Black
toranga quote
I'm back! Sorry for the wait, had a lot happen these past few weeks. Here are the two writeups for the characters I proposed and got approved:
- Super Press Space to Win Action RPG 2009: The Rival is the second-in-command to the King, and the main threat to the Hero. Burning down a village in order to lure the Hero into a duel, the Rival compliments the Hero when he is evenly matched by him. Later, when the Hero is storming the King's castle, the Rival meets them for another duel, this time being soundly beaten. While momentarily shocked, the Rival lowers his sword, letting the Hero pass to face the King. When the Hero is at the King's mercy, the Rival swoops in to save the Hero, at the cost of his own life. In his final words, the Rival reveals that he is their brother, before passing on. Despite being in an obvious parody of RPGs, the Rival manages to be a charismatic, clever, and honorable villain in his own right.
- Rick and Morty in the Eternal Nightmare Machine: The Nightmare Machine's version of Gazorpazorpfield is one of the most cunning and honorable enemies it creates. Challenging Rick to a one-on-one duel, Gazorpazorpfield manages to hold his own relying on his hand-and-hand combat and adapting to Rick's attacks. After recognizing Rick's strength, Gazorpazorpfield gives him a nod of respect before jumping away, later coming back to help him and Morty against the Machine.
Doom s himself.
Mr. House
for the Toranga quote.
Well, here I go. I think this is my first time doing a fictional character within a work of fiction:
- Gortimer Gibbon's Life on Normal Street's "The Mystery of the Marlow Mansion": Raymond Bloodstone is a renowned and extremely skilled actor and thief existing within the novels of famous mystery author Polly Marlow. When Gortimer Gibbons plays the role of the character, and a thunderstorm traps in Gortimer his role, Raymond would study his host's body and life in order to masterfully impersonate him, convince Gortimer's friends that he was unaffected by the storm, and temporarily shut down the electricity to the place to steal a golden owl from under everyone's noses, without drawing suspicion. Taking advantage of Gortimer's beloved status, Raymond would subtly use some of the accusations and the suspects' mannerisms and lines to try and incriminate them, and nearly gets away with his theft even after the others are proven innocent. When exposed, he expresses how his theft was due to wanting to be recognized for his acting skills, and gracefully accepts Ranger and Mel's praise for his masterful impersonation, taking a bow.
I'm thinking maybe I should add some additional potholes (links to existing tropes). What do you think?
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I'm calling it now, the Big Bad Jinx can't be a proper keeper as she's way too unhinged, prone to anger, driven by revenge to the point where overlooks some parts, and has an undignified defeat.
Edited by SpaceProtagonist on May 14th 2024 at 9:36:28 AM
I saw The Garfield movie (2024) a few weeks early. PM me if you think anyone counts.
His friends call him...
I'm not sure if I am still able to make proposal so here we are...
What is the work?
Plants vs. Zombies Heroes is a 2016 Mobile card game based on the tower defense Plants vs. Zombies, with gameplay inspired from Hearthstone. You can play as either plants or zombies to defeat your opponent and win.Who is the candidate?
Well I always thought that this game has quite a handful of candidates, but I think this one particular candidate has a lot of factors to make it the strongest. Introducing Impfinity.Impfinity is a Zombie Superhero (or villain as being a zombie) with the ability to duplicate himself. He leads the Sneaky and Crazy Class.
In Plant Mission named Impfinity’s Wild Ride, he was seen causing mischief in the theme park, which caused the Plant Heroes to stop him. He was successfully captured, however, one of the clones appeared to climb on the ride to escape.
In Zombie Mission named A Fight To The Finish Line, as Grass Knuckles is a constant winner of the race, Impfinity was seen stealthily using his clones to win it, making the zombies victorious.
How is he magnificent?
Absolutely, unlike all other zombie heroes, he never failed to achieve his goals in all of his appearances. He was seen using his wits with his clones to defeat them, and it goes unnoticed. Plus, it was never under the orders of Dr. Zomboss so everything is under his own will, therefore he is magnificent.While he was seen messing with Zomboss’ lab, it was not out of incompetence but his mischievous behaviors, so it would not make it qualified. He may not reach Zomboss’ intelligence, but he’s never under butt-monkey territory because he barely have them.
How is he a baddie?
A simple baddie in fact, he attempted to defeat the plants and cheated in a race to win with his clones. And of course, he’s a zombie hero that is immoral due to cheating so I suppose he is a baddie enough?Verdict?
What do you think?
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Alrighty, got some candidates from the series Bullet Train, now let’s take a look at one from the original film first before anything else.
Who is Lemon? What Does He Do?
- A calm and friendly hitman and one half of The Twins, alongside his brother Tangerine and a fan of Thomas the Tank Engine, Lemon and Tangerine is given the job to rescue the son of the feared Crime Lord. The White Death, and a briefcase full of ransom money as well. They succeed in this and rescue both the son and the money, killing 16 triad’s throughout in a fun sequence where they count up their kills (17 if you doubt the civilians who got blown up-though Lemon doesn’t)
- Despite the briefcase being stolen by protagonist Ladybug and things hitting a wrench when the Son mysteriously killed, Lemon and Tangerine are determined to find the briefcase and plan on pinning Ladybug on the son’s death, and for now manage to trick Minegishi’s men into thinking the son is still alive.
- For Lemon’s part, he manages to get to Ladybug and after a conversation engage in a fight where he almost gets the upper hand, only being knocked out due to the cramped space of the train. When he wakes up and splits from Tangerine to find the briefcase and Ladybug, he is met with both The Prince and Kimura, and he manages to catch The Prince in a lie when she slips up about the “case” he’s looking for being a briefcase. Despite being convinced and shooting Kimura, Lemon still doesn’t trust The Prince and is ready to kill her too, not even convinced by her acting innocent, while remaking how impressive and real it looks. However, due to the water Ladybug drugged taking effect in Lemon, he passes out and is shot by the Prince, though not before sticking a diesel sticker on her to tip Tangerine off she’s bad news.
- It’s also revealed that Lemon survived, having worn a bullet proof vest. When he sees Tangerine was killed, he mourns him and is enraged at Ladybug, but at the advice at the Elder, the two decide to make a truce to take down The White Death when it’s revealed that he orchestrated for all of them to die.
- During the big battle scene on the out of control train, Lemon and Ladybug work together in the conductor’s booth, killing plethora of White Death’s goons using creative objects to disposal as the two make peace with each other (though Lemon not forgiving Ladybug). When a goon almost kills Ladybug, Lemon promptly pulls a Heroic Sacrifice, and tackles him off the train into a river below.
- However, he survives AGAIN and comes back in the ending, having steal a tangerine truck and using it to run over The Prince, killing her and avenging Tangerine, riding off in the sunset.
Is He Magnificent?
Lemon here is given HEFTY Adaptational Intelligence and seriousness, compared to his incompetent book portrayal. Here, Lemon is a very funny, wise cracking yet very competent assassin who takes down enemies with ease alongside Tangerine, and despite facing multiple hurdles like the briefcase being stolen, getting knocked out and getting drugged from the water, they were out of his control and he manages to bounce back each time, using clever ways to survive, including wearing a bullet proof vest and in the climax, manages to help take down White Death, saves Ladybug’s life and survives his second seeming death and personally mows down Prince to avenge Tangerine.
Is He A Bastard?
Tangerine is still a ruthless assassin, having killed dozens of people, and planned to have Lafybug take the fall for the Son’s murder regardless of his innocence. Despite this, Lemon is still affable, loves his brother deeply, and is funny as all hell.
Verdict?
Yes to Lemon
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
The Clown is in town (*he*/she/they)
to Lemon
Abstain on Impfinity, not sure.
Edited by TheWrongOne41 on May 14th 2024 at 9:22:17 AM
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice. (also i'm fluid now)
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
And here’s the other candidates. This time from the original 2010 book.
Who are Shigeru And Akiko Kimura? What Do They Do?
- The parents of Yuichi Kimura, grandparents of Wataru, and retired Yakuza members who are portrayed as sweet yet very intelligent members who learn of Yuichi getting kidnapped by the Prince, who hospitalized Wataru and have him clinging to life.
- The pair come onto the train after everything and confront Satoshi Oji/The Prince and Ladybug, and the group go into a Mexican Standoff, where the couple are polite and very calm during the confrontation as the two, alongside former assassin and teacher Suzuki (protagonist in the first book by the creator; 3 Assassins) pick apart The Prince’s nihilistic diatribe and his arrogance, and prevent Prince from answering the phone from her associate, which would have mean Wataru would be kille.
- After Ladybug flees into the bathroom due to a snake and the couple are left alone with The Prince, he attempts to smugly defy the elderly criminals and declare that their grandson is dead. But then, to his horror, the train cart messenger comes on which revealed Wataru is alive. The two politely explain that they hired an associate and a hitman (The Pusher; Another character in the 3 Assassins book) to kill Satoshi’s associate and a old friend to keep Wataru safe.
- Completely destroying The Prince’s plan and cornering him, the two then begin to brutally rip into him and release a very karmic "Reason You Suck" Speech where they mock’s the kid’s foolishness and his stupidity for what he tried to do, and they promised to make himself suffer horrifically out of revenge.
- They proceed to shoot Satoshi to incapacitate them and they sneak him out of the train station, with Yuichi and Wataru saved and The Prince’s fate probably not pleasant.
Are They Magnificent?
The two appear near the end, but they pretty much count, like the movie. The two are cool headed and ruthless former Yakuza who manage to get one over on The Prince before they rip into this nihilism And arrogance before sneaking the injured teen out to Pay Evil unto Evil.
Are They Bastards?
Kind disposition aside, the two are unscrupulous and unrepentant former Yakuza members who hire assassins to kill people and proceed to enact a likely brutal torture against The Prince out of revenge. Clear cut Anti-Hero on both fronts.
Verdict?
To them
The wifi here sucks
Yes to Lemon and the Kimuras, weak yes to Impfinity. Do you think Film!@Tangerine could count? I feel like even with his death there may be enough for him to count.
Hope your prepared for an unforgettable luncheon
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Unfortunately as much as I want to think he counts he ultimately suffers the same issues as the other characters (Hornet; Wolf; White Death and Prince) that being there abrupt and unceremonious death. He’s immediately shot in the neck during a small struggle and spends the last of his moments chocking on blood and his pleas about The Prince falling on death ears. He’s close, but don’t think he makes it
Ultimate Moral Compass
Dr. Doom
What’s the Work?
The Maid Uniform and Machine Gun is an action game and Vol. 105 of the Simple 2000 series, the same series that The Sniper 2 hails from. Though a low budget game released for the PS2, if you're expecting another gonzo disaster like The Sniper 2, you'll be disappointed to find that this game's actually pretty alright.
Though it helps that the plot is pretty simple (heh), feeling like a cross between Terminator 2: Judgment Day and Mahoromatic. Two robots created by Dr. Misaki, combat butler Master Gerald and android battle maid Laura, revolt against their master to conquer the future, hoping to travel back in time to make Misaki's younger self work for them to build technology for their plan. Stealing his time machine, Misaki uses his backup android battle maid Yuki to go back and time to protect his young self from the rebellious robots.
Who is He?
Master Gerald is a combat android butler who, alongside Laura, plans to conquer all of time itself.
What does he do?
Proving himself more sophisticated than Laura, Gerald and Laura force the scientist Dr. Masaki to build them a time machine for their plan, then reveals that they plan to use it to go back in time to "hire" his younger self to make them inventions that will create a time paradox and alter history. Having Laura and her army of robots kidnap the young Masaki at his villa, upon her failure, Gerald reveals to have already sent another team to the villa just in case she didn’t succeed.
Laura later catches Masaki, and despite being pursued by Yuki on a highway, Gerald nevertheless reassures her that she’s doing well, and that he’ll be taking over for now. This entails Gerald appearing out of nowhere to throw some daggers at Yuki’s car, causing it to crash and allowing Laura to get away with Masaki.
With Masaki in hand, Gerald prepares to brainwash him into working for him, while luring Yuki into a trap that will see her weakened to the point of being easy to kill. When the two of them look to be losing to Yuki during the first phase of their final boss fight, Gerald’s willing to sacrifice himself to ensure Laura’s safety.
Now there's two endings to this game:
- In the normal ending, Gerald angrily admits defeat after coming so close to completion ("Gah... darn it all. We were so close...!"), and Yuki takes him back to the present alongside Laura.
- But in the good ending, upon losing to Yuki, Gerald grabs Laura and escapes, planning his future attack, while admitting to gathering a whole lot of combat data during the fight, which he hopes to use to upgrade Laura accordingly. A Sequel Hook that sadly never came to fruition.
Is he charming? Intelligent? Able to think on his feet?
Gerald is a gentlemanly antagonist who remains ahead of Yuki every step of the way, from sending reinforcements just in case Laura fails, to luring Yuki into a trap that would give him and Laura the upper hand, to secretly gathering combat data to eventually give himself and Laura the upper hand.
And unlike Laura, Gerald's pretty calm most of the time, even going so far as to respect Yuki's nobility. And though his initial defeat shows him to be angry, it's not a full-fledged Villainous Breakdown, and the Good Ending shows that he's already recovered and has made plans for another attack.
Is he a bastard? Too much of one?
Gerald serves as the game's Big Bad, hoping to conquer the future by kidnapping his master and brainwashing him into serving him, while making veiled threats to kill him should Yuki continue to stand in his way.
But he dearly cares for Laura, making sure she's okay every chance he gets, even willing to give up his own life to protect her.
And it helps too that the game is pretty lighthearted, so Gerald's actions aren't played as heinously evil or anything.
Verdict?
I think he keeps
"No running in the halls!"
Mr. House
for Lemon, the Kimuras and Master Gerald. Weaker yes to Impfinity.
Goku Black
lemon, kimuras, Gerald
Lemon, Kimuras, Gerald and Impfinity
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
Yes to Gerald and Impfinity.
Got one more Candidate from Bullet Train coming up
Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
Dagded Dujardin
Lemon, Impfinity, Kimuras, Gerald
Edited by VengefulBale on May 14th 2024 at 3:40:18 AM
"Bingo! If two species hate each other, they will wipe each other out on their own."
Random question: anyone remember a show called Crisis? I saw a single episode years ago and just randomly remembered the Big Bad - I believe his name was Francis Gibson - was quite impressive. IIRC he's an ex-CIA agent who is forced back into the game after the Agency threatens his daughter, so he retaliates by kidnapping the children of powerful government officials and forcing them to commit serious crimes as a condition of their child's release. He even has one of his henchmen cut off his own thumb(!!!!!) to make his act as just another hostage look believable.
Dagded Dujardin
My draft for Forouzan:
- Kung Fu Panda: The Dragon Knight: Forouzan the Pirate Queen is the Dragon Knights' most cunning foe. The most feared outlaw in the world, Forouzan expertly avoided and beat every single foe that tried to stop her. Successfully tracking the Dragon Knights when asked to by Colin and Weimin, Forouzan captures the group and easily thwarts Colin's attempted betrayal. Putting Mr. Ping on trial for having faked his death when they were co-captains and lovers in their youth, Forouzan is convinced by Rukhmini to let Ping choose a way to escape direct execution via a battle gauntlet of her best warriors and when it's her turn to fight proves herself to be more than a match for Po who only wins his bout with her via dirty tactics, when defeated she grants them their freedom as per the rules. Keeping the Tianshang Weapons safe from both the Knights of England and the Dark Mages when entrusted with them, Forouzan manages to deliver them to the Dragon Knights to be destroyed and later helps Po in stopping Sir Alfred by staging a fake war between China and England. When all is said and done, Forouzan peacefully retires and resumes her relationship with Mr. Ping as restauranteurs, avoiding any consequences for her decades of piracy.
My problem with Francis was his absolute refusal to take responsibility for anything bad that he did. I'm not gonna deny that he's suitably villainous, nor in some ways charming or scarily effective. But that doesn't change that the show repeatedly emphasizes him saying "they made me do it." I really felt like it was framing him as somewhat pathetic.
I would have to rewatch though. Haven't seen it in awhile.
Edited by jjjj2 on May 15th 2024 at 10:37:47 AM
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid