Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard proposal thread! This is the thread where new Magnificent Bastard examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential mitigating features will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the MB subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite MB" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from other parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for MB equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, their goals and methodology, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some characters, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
How are they Magnificent?
This is the point where you highlight the character's brilliance. How to they convey their intelligence and charm to the audience? What makes them stand out among the crowd? What are their goals and how do they go about accomplishing them? This part welcomes a lot of creative thinking — not everyone has to be a Machiavellian Diabolical Mastermind to be worth considering here! This is also the time to showcase how the character can think on their feet if it's necessary.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
What kinds of moral lines is this character willing to cross for the sake of their goal? Are they willing to let innocents die? Start wars? Commit crimes? The character has to show some kind of unscrupulousness in order to count as a "Bastard". Notably, this character does not necessarily have to be the villain, and an Anti-Hero can cross the line if they're immoral enough, but they have to be immoral somehow.
This is also the section where you then state your case for why they're not too bad. Perhaps their good intentions help mitigate their crimes. Perhaps others are shown to be much worse than them. Perhaps they're prone to Pet the Dog moments or are even fighting on behalf of loved ones. Whatever the case, there are certain lines that an MB can't cross, but as long as their villainy is reasonable for their goal, they can be considered.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:40:56 AM
I've been watching this thread for a bit and I think I've found a character that could count for the trope.
What is the work?
Animator vs. Animation is a series of YouTube videos made by Alan Becker, around five stick figures and their adventures on the Author Avatar's PC. The candidate comes from the one-off episode Animation vs. Arcade Games, where the stick figures play several arcade games on an arcade machine.Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Q*bert from... Qbert is the episode's Villain of the Week. His game is one of the ones available on the arcade machine. In comparison to the other characters, Q*bert is a sentient entity that begins messing with the remaining games, introducing himself by sending a Frogger log at Tetris. After seeing similar glitches in the other games, the Stick Gang eventually sees Q*bert while playing Pac-Man and enters the emulator's window to confront him. In response, Q*bert steals their arcade machine, giving himself total control over the emulator. He escapes Pac-Man, forcing the Stick Gang to deal with the ghosts.Once they escape the game via eating all the pellets, they find themselves in Frogger, Q*bert sending out the aliens from Space Invaders to attack them. Once they make their way to Tetris, Q*bert sends more attacks at them while taunting with a little dance. After they beat that game too, they enter the original Mario Bros., where Q*bert first outmanuevers Blue and the Second Coming / "Orange" when surrounded by them, but then escapes the game while sending more enemies at them to fight. When they make their way to Donkey Kong, Q*bert first rejects Pauline's love, before sucking her into himself and intimidating the titular gorilla into attacking the Stick Gang for him.... which doesn't exactly do much, as Yellow kills DK with a hammer, thus ending the game and sending them to Pong, and immediately after to Space Invaders, Q*bert taunting them both times.
The climax arrives in Q*bert's own game, where it's revealed he has kidnapped Mario (the DK one), Mario (the MB one), Pac-Man, Frogger and now Pauline. Using the Stick Gang's arcade machine, he mind-controls them into attacking the Stick Gang before sending out an army of minions at them. While it's a long and hard battle, the Stick Gang eventually kills all the protagonists (except Frogger, who Q*bert crushes to death with a Tetris block) and surrounds Q*bert. Seeing no way out, Q*bert sucks everything that's not from his own game into himself (excluding Yellow, who hid himself) before escaping into Space Invaders, where Yellow uses his laptop to control the game's rocket and attack Q*bert. He then uses the arcade machine to add a Player 2; A paddle from Pong. He first knocks Q*bert into the air before attacking him with the rocket's bullets.
Once Yellow sends Q*bert flying right into his arms, they suddenly hear Q*bert's children cry. It's revealed Q*bert was just trying to gather food for his family; Yellow, realising the whole thing was a misunderstanding, gives some cherries to his kids, before filling the family's entire house with Pac-Man food and then resurrecting all the arcade game characters he and his friends killed. Q*bert, in response, brings back Yellow's friends and everyone becomes pals with each other.
The ending of the episode shows the Stick Gang playing Pong with Q*bert and his family, both teams at peace. The Actual Short "Bob Is Always There" would later confirm the Stick Gang still uses the arcade machine from time to time, being friends with Q*bert years later.
How are they Magnificent?
Q*bert is not exactly a Manipulative Bastard, but he's still a clever and enjoyable antagonist; He sneaks his way throughout all the arcade games, sending attacks from each game at the Stick Gang while secretly kidnapping the game's playable characters and finding ways to turn the tides in his favor whenever he's surrounded, all while being rather charming via his little taunts to the stick figures. It also helps he's not a one-dimensional baddie: All he wanted was to find food for his family, becomes a good person once Yellow offers help, and shows he's loyal to his wife by rejecting Pauline's advances. Yes, Yellow defeating him was somewhat comedic and humiliating, but Q*bert quickly recovers by escaping from Yellow's hands the second he hears his children cry, and being willing to fight Yellow when he thinks he'll harm them. Also, it takes a smart guy to control five characters with just one arcade machine, at once.His magnificence is also visible when compared to the other Animation vs. [some game] villains: Purple was spiteful and a Sore Loser (on top of other issues that would show up later), Ethan is outright xenophobic towards Orange, Mario (Not the DK one. Not the MB one either) was also rather spiteful all things considered, and Euler's Identity can't be even called a bastard as he acts in self-defence due to Orange being the story's aggressor.
How are they a Bastard? How are they not too bad?
Q*bert is still very clearly an antagonistic figure. He messes with the Stick Gang's games, tries to kill them upon meeting them, kidnaps the arcade game protagonists and mind-controls them into serving him, and then kills Frogger without a single care in the world.That said, he's definitely not too much of a bastard. Q*bert is a rather tame antagonist all things considered, being another Villain of the Week who's villainy ammounts to fighting the Stick Gang. I definitely wouldn't call his mind control too bad, as there's no evidence the protagonists were in a Fate Worse than Death (unlike the Orb or Herobrine's possessions) and there are no hard feelings once the protagonists are resurrected.
Final verdict?
A rather solid keeper for the title in my opinion.
Harbinger of Cringe
I'll give a ![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to Q*Bert, good EP!
I'll give a to Q'bert as well.
I hate to be that guy, but both of my proposals (The Rival, "Gaz") are sitting at barely-not-passing 4/0![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_down_emote.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
, including my own respective votes.
The Rival's wait time is up, so if more people could vote and possibly break the balance that'd be great.
Edited by Koopa22 on Apr 28th 2024 at 12:58:56 PM
Simultaneously hands-on and hands-off with my life.
to Q*bert and Gaz.
Edited by SpaceProtagonist on Apr 28th 2024 at 1:13:57 PM
(Comment deleted)
Edited by SpaceProtagonist on Apr 28th 2024 at 1:13:43 PM
to Qbert, The Rival and Gaz.
Now Whitehill's writeup.
- America Rising 2: Legacy of the Enclave: Colonel Morgan Whitehill proves to committed to the Enclave's vision of rebuilding America, yet opposed to the xenophobia and genetic purism of the Enclave leadership that has led constantly to their defeats across the wasteland. Surviving on an Oil Rig that was the site of FEV experiments carried out by the Enclave leadership for years, Whitehill would be recruited by the Sole Survivor and General Ward once they reclaim the Oil Rig for the Enclave. Whitehill then plays a role in helping to recruit survivors of the Oil Rig to the reconstituted Enclave, showing affection for many of her men that were revealed to have survived. Throughout the Enclave's war in the Commonwealth, Whitehill favors tactics that reduces the casualties of Enclave soldiers. Upon finding out General Ward and Senator Matthews plans to wipe out all "mutated" humanity with the Forced Evolutionary Virus, Whitehill tasks the Sole Survivor in helping to prepare a coup against them. If the Sole Survivor assists Whitehill in assassinating the Enclave leadership, Whitehill will assume control of the Enclave; keeping Dr. Kane alive despite her role in the FEV as a means to create weapons that will reduce Enclave casualities as they seek to re-create a new America under their vision.
Edited by xie323 on Apr 28th 2024 at 10:54:15 AM
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Caesar
Yes to Q*Bert!
Next from the Red Dead franchise, the big man himself: John Marston
Who is John Marston? What makes him a candidate?
- The Player Character in Red Dead Redemption and the epilogue of the game's prequel Red Dead Redemption II, John Marston was once a runaway orphan until he fell in with the Van der Linde gang. Taken in by leader Dutch, John was raised by the outlaws and became one of their toughest number, helping pull off a countless number of robberies, train hijackings, bank heists and more. Though his youth lead to him making some mistakes here and there, John always learned to do better and slowly fell in love with gang member Abigail, even having a son named Jack with her.
- After many adventures with the Van der Linde gang, John and Abigail decide to call it quits when Dutch, his right-hand Micah, and others in the gang become more bloodthirsty and cruel. Aided by one of his closest friends Arthur Morgan in escaping the gang, John is crushed when Arthur dies in the ensuing chaos at the hands of Micah, but nonetheless listens to Abigail's pleading to let it go and slip into hiding. John creates a new identity for himself and sets up life in the country, and though he has some turmoil with Abigail when his past comes back to haunt him, he kills those who would harm his new way of life and buys a ranch before officially marrying Abigail.
- Things change when his old ally Sadie comes knocking, informing John that she's tracked down Micah. John, determined to avenge Arthur, works with Sadie and others to lead a raid on Micah's hideout, and though Dutch shows up as a Wild Card, John convinces him to help kill Micah before parting ways. John then loots Micah's house and finds his stash of treasure, using it to pay off the ranch his family owns and ensure they will live in peace forever...
- ...but things change again when the slimy Agent Edgar Ross uses the massacre of Micah's hideout to track down John, kidnapping his family and threatening them with death. Ross wants John to carry out a simple task: track down and capture/kill the survivors of the Van der Linde gang. Though upset at having to target his old crew, John complies for the sake of Abigail and Jack, and begins a crusade to hunt down Dutch and the gang.
- John first targets Bill Williamson, and though shot in his initial attempt to capture Bill, John is nursed back to health by ranchers and tries a new tactic. He helps out nearby citizens and the Marshal in various escapades to amass a team, and uses the Con Man West Dickens' cart to slip inside Bill's fort and use a gatling gun to wipe out Bill's men. Bill escapes to Mexico, so John tracks him down and inserts himself into a civil war between the heinous Colonel Allende and local rebels. John starts off helping Allende under the promise of finding Bill, but after witnessing Allende's cruelties, John starts assisting the rebellion and ultimately gets Allende overthrow and both him and Bill killed.
- Then targeting Dutch, John teams with government agents and tracks him down, letting Dutch commit suicide rather than be taken in or killed by the government. John is then apparently let off the hook by Ross and his family returned to him, and they enjoy a bountiful, peaceful life for a time.
- Unfortunately Ross is a weaselly little bastard and pulls an I Lied, showing up at the Marston ranch to kill them all to tie up loose ends. John wards off the arriving army long enough for Abigail and Jack to escape, and then proudly commits Suicide by Cop while walking into plain sight of dozens of men and taking down as many of them with him as he can.
- Though John dies, what he taught Jack in shooting and "being a man" ultimately leads Jack to, years later, hunt down and murder Ross for what he did to Jack's father.
Is he magnificent?
For sure, he's a badass gunfighter with a quick wit who has pulled off a ton of robberies, kills Micah, sets up a new life, tracks down his old gang to save his family, and then sacrifices himself so his family can escape Ross's men. John makes some mistakes here and there but ultimately he does what he thinks is best and always comes out looking awesome for it. Ross, for instance, only found John's family because John tracked down and murdered Micah, but Micah needed to die for all he had done and John still manages to get one-up on Ross by distracting him while his family gets away—leading to Jack killing Ross years later when Ross thinks he's gotten away with everything.
Is he a bastard?
Definitely, in both his past and present John is ruthless and quick to threaten violence, and while by the time of the first game he has put aside his robbing, outlaw ways, he still aids con men in ripping off citizens; threatens people with death to get them to comply; aids a guy in graverobbing...John's worst act is definitely his initial alliance with Allende's ruthless regime, but it's before John knows all the details and once he does he's routinely disgusted at Allende and takes the first chance he can to begin dismantling the villain. And despite his ruthlessness, John is often willing to help people in serious need and has a surprisingly progressive outlook on life for the time, looking down on racists and those who abuse women.
Final Verdict?
Edited by Ravok on Apr 28th 2024 at 2:11:22 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Jogo
Q*Bert and Marston
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Yes to Q*bert and John.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unexpected yet happy to John Marston.
for Gazorpazorpfield, Q*bert and John Marston.
Goku Black
Marston
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Ultimate Moral Compass
John Fucking Marston
Yes to the Shapeshifter, Hijikata, Gaz, and Qubert.
Also yes to Red and John. It's unfortunate Arthur can't complete the Player Character trifecta, but dying a sad pathetic death can do that to one's candidacy.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Apr 28th 2024 at 8:49:58 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Caesar
Yeah, it's frustrating especially because out of the 4 endings, 2 of them he ends excellently, 1 of them decently, and in those 3 I'd say he's fine to count. But the absolute worst of said 4 endings for him is, very much, the worst.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
I wouldn't mind voting yes just going off one low honor ending if he just got shot in the face, but in the other getting stabbed in the back while your crawling away trying to escape is too much. A Player Character can be tricky to propose if there are multiple endings but we don't know a canon ending.
Like, I've always wondered if I wanted to propose Commander Shepard, but they don't do anything bastardly in the Paragon path, so I don't think proposing just the Renegade version would make much sense.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Apr 28th 2024 at 9:35:53 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
The MILF Virus
Here's another candidate from an anime I just finished, Undead Girl Murder Farce, and we got a few. Let's start with the finale antagonist, the women responsible for the Werewolf and Human murders, Nora.
Setting:
Undead Girl Murder Farce is a light novel series from Yugo Aosaki. A series of mysteries in the 1800s, the story is in a world where paranormal creatures are common. We have vampires, orges, onis, other classic monster like Frankenstein's Monster, Carmilla the Vampire, and Undead. Main Aya Rindo is an undead head immortal who's enlisted to solve cases involving monster.
Joined by Tsugaru, half oni and a Oni Slayer, and Shizuoka, maid and faithful bodyguard, they go around trying to solve mysteries while tracking Moriarty, Aya's former master who stolen her body. The final case takes place in Holland, where a series of murders with werewolves. Mastermind of the murders is the seemingly dead Louise, true identity Jutte the werewolf thought to have died by the village and lives in Werewolf village as Nora.
Who's Jutte and her actions:
An alpha werewolf, Jutte was made to be the perfect werewolf after a series of breeding by her mother Rosa. Exiled after defying their abuse, Rosa joined a human village while she was pregnant and gave birth to Jutte. Caught from a misunderstanding with Louisa and Jutte, Louisa exposed Jutte's heritage to the village. Hunted, Rosa sacrifice herself and use her own corpse and foxes to fake Jutte's death, having cynacize her from the world.
Realizing the abuse the werewolves are doing to her sister, making them into Breeding Slaves to replicate her, Jutte planned revenge and their escape. Taking the place of the real Louisa, and joining werewolf village as Nora, the next shaman of the village, she lived a double life planning revenge, Killing duplicate girls in the human village, she acted like they were the corpses of her werewolf sisters and the culpit was human using a gun, using it to help the faked victims to escape. When the corpses are buried, Jutte stole them and took them to the human village, massacring them to look like werewolves attack.
She kept doing it till she manage to get all her sisters out. Finished, she planned her final revenge. Faking her "death", she set a werewolf attack on herself ending "Louisa's" life. She then killed Alma, made her look like the real werewolf staging herself in Alma's home and looking like her in a sillhoute through a window, transforming to a werewolf. She finish faking her own death by killing the real Louisa, who lived with her in an underground passage and stayed with her till her death, implied to be willing. With the deaths over, Jutte staged the human and werewolves into fighting each other before Aya revealed her scheme.
Defeated and caught by Tsugaru, and hearing her true wishes, Aya let her go seeing her well-intent, Jutte escaping planning to live in the outside world as thanks for Aya.
Magnificence:
Manage to fool the human and werewolf village Living a Double Life, manipulating them to her goal. She saves her sisters as she intended and is let go by Aya after winning her sympathy, winning despite getting caught. And after her ordeal, she got revenge on the two villages who ruined her. Her plan is quiet brilliant, using the two prejudice to use body doubles to save her sister, while adapting in the fly, like killing Alma and making her look like the werewolf to hide herself as the werewolf.
How Evil:
She had good intentions to save her sisters from suffering as breeding slaves, but her actions still killed four young girls who done nothing. Purpose was body doubles to trick the werewolves, but the brutality, and harshness she did is still bad. Louise might've willed it but she was still a friend she killed. Also dragged Alma down despite being an outsider. So five dead to save her sisters from horrific fates.
Verdict:
Think she's a solid keep. Very extreme, but she has her reasons. Understandable why she went so far with her situation. It's quite sympathetic.
"Are you the devil?" "Don't compare to me to those small fry" - Mir
Question: in the One Piece thread, I saw that Eustass Kidd has an entry. Does he still count despite what happened in his last appearance?
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Jutte
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
for future references, you should take that to the Cleanup Thread, also we decided to wait until his arc ends before we make a decision on him, since he recently became a major player in the game again.
Goku Black
marston and jutte
Dagded Dujardin
for Gazorpazorpfield, Q*bert and John Marston and Jutte.
Edited by VengefulBale on Apr 29th 2024 at 3:24:43 AM
"Bingo! If two species hate each other, they will wipe each other out on their own."
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
Hijikata and Gaz
In honor of Akira Toriyama