Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Classy, Refined, Unstable
I'm gonna let folks get some of their reserved backlogs out the way for this page so does anyone object me doing my next Hellraiser character on the next page?
Yes, yes, old boy, we'd like nothing more than to stay and be a part of your primitive, barbaric society, but duty calls, duty calls...
The Moron
Personally I'd say wait til tomorrow - another of the agreements we came to on Restart was to only do one EP a day for the first week or so to help manage the chaos - but tomorrow, I think you'll be fine to go for it!
In interest of fairness I'm looking at pacing my stuff at one EP (or group) per day.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
No worries! Lets folks get more out the way
Goku Black
@acw: Response: Rafal doesnt actually lead the kingdoms thats guys like Arthur. He's just in charge of trainign academy students. He wants to get rid off the students who are his competition so he can make a play for the whole thing later.
"The Juice is Loose."
I'm going to wait awhile to post an EP because all of my planned ones are from already long finished TV shows right now.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah, so textbook Ambition Is Evil?
Has anybody reserved Wednesday? Joseph Crackstone is a fairly obvious candidate.
You've got roaming bands of armed, aggressive, tyrannical plumbers coming to your door, saying "Use our service, or else!"
Professor Gigachad
So now that the threads are open here is my first proposal, been looking forward to this and man is it a funny one. Also to help clear out the backlog.
What is the Work?
Mortal Kombat Legends: Snow Blind is the latest entry in the Mortal Kombat Legends series of films. This one takes place in an Earthrealm After the End where Kano and his gang of black dragons rule the entire world bullying everything around as they see fit. And no prizes for guessing who we are talking about.
Who is Kano and What Has He Done?
This reality according to Word of God is one where Kano won the events of Mortal Kombat 11 stole Kronika’s hourglass and reset the universe. Kano shows up for the events of the first film but he doesn’t do anything there so I will skip ahead to the proper one.
Kano would unleash an army of revenants onto Earthrealm. The heroes did their best to stop it but they eventually ended up overwhelmed with likely most of them being killed. The revenants would wreck Earthrealm eventually causing it to fall into a barren wasteland with most of it dead and the few survivors scattered across villages. Kano was not done though, Kano would install himself as the self-proclaimed "King" of Earthrealm. He would lead his forces in attacking numerous villages, killing off a majority of their inhabitants and forcing anyone who was left to be part of the Black Dragon. Kano would also frequently force these people to fight to the death in arenas.
Later on some of Kano’s minions discover a hidden village. When the three return Kano is seen forcing two women to fight to the death and when one beats the other and refuses to kill her, Kano personally executes her. Kano sends Tremor to put the hidden village in line. It works, however, Shang Tsung ends up regaining his strength and fighting Kano, and then loses with Kano killing Shang Tsung.
Kano would then move to personally conquer the hidden villain, killing off tons of people. When one old man refuses to bow down to him Kano kills him instantly. Kenshi comes to try and free the village but he fails and is captured by Kano’s forces. Kano would purposefully choose to have Kenshi executed as slowly and painfully as possible by slowly removing more of his body, mostly his fingers.
However, Scorpion and Sub-Zero work to free Kenshi and are able to. Most of the Black Dragon ends up killed but Kano is able to retreat to his lair which contains Kronika’s hourglass. Sub-Zero follows him and once he arrives Kano explains everything to him, he then attempts to use the hourglass to erase Sub-Zero from existence. Sub-Zero however is able to defeat Kano and end up killing him, ending him and his horrible rule forever.
Does He have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
I will mention that the trope page sort of lists Kano on Even Evil Has Loved Ones for saying “Sorry mate” when Kobra is killed. It doesn’t really apply honestly. Like Kano saying that, he isn’t like emotional or upset in any way he just says it in the most emotionless tone possible and then moves past it never mentioning this again. It comes across more as Kano being like "well that sucks, whatever" rather than like "nooo, you killed someone I loved". Even him saying "mate" doesn’t mean as much as it might otherwise as Kano talks like that all the time and says it to people that he blatantly hates. There is nothing to suggest this is genuinely redeeming and everything to suggest it isn’t. So yeah I don’t see this as a prevention.
He does mention that he has no soul and that is why Shang Tsung can’t steal his soul, however, there is no proof that he lacks the ability to choose between good and evil and the whole “lack of soul” thing seems to be something Kano himself caused due to his various cybernetic enhancements.
Does He meet the Heinousness Standard?
Kano not only meets the heinous standard but he completely blows past it. Unleashing an army of revenants that nearly wiped out Earthrealm, raiding villages and killing most of their inhabitants frequently, killing several people in horrible ways, forcing people to fight to the death for his own amusement, and more. That is not even getting into the fact that it is very strongly implied that Kano in possession of Kronika’s hourglass has reset the timeline at least once if not numerous times before it.
I honestly had to take some time and consider if our two current keepers still make it. Shinnok gets by through sheer scale but Quan Chi is the tricker one. Though I think now that he does barely get by with not being on the same level as the other villains and still having quite a number of nasty actions.
Final Verdict?
As weird as it is to get a version of Kano up, he does qualify.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
"The Juice is Loose."
Lighty is covering Wednesday.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
It might be good to have the OP as the header like with the old thread? And have the discussions page linked as well so we shouldn't get any confusion with folks E Ping a character when the time is due.
Yes, yes, old boy, we'd like nothing more than to stay and be a part of your primitive, barbaric society, but duty calls, duty calls...
The Moron
That's not something that can be manually done, it happens automatically after a certain amount of time
That "Sorry mate" doesn't seem like actual care to me
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Ah fairs
Got no issues with Kano.
Yes, yes, old boy, we'd like nothing more than to stay and be a part of your primitive, barbaric society, but duty calls, duty calls...
Goku Black
@Lighty: Of course go ahead. Whoever you want to start with.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Caesar
Likewise don't think that sounds like a issue with Kano, sounds like a bit of snark but nothing more substantial.
Aight lemme do the first of my holdover reservations that have been pending discussion for a couple months.
What's the work?
All Quiet on the Western Front (2022) is the latest adaptation of the novel of the same name, set in the days of World War I and following the lives of German soldiers on the front lines who are desperate to simply survive. War Is Hell is the name of the game, and as countless men fight and lose their lives at the whims of superiors...this asshole is front and center:
Who is Friedrichs? What has he done?
A balding, mustachioed general who loathes the French and German "social democrats" who are damaging the war effort, General Friedrichs believes himself to be a true soldier who was "born 50 years too late" to take part in truly glorious wars like his father before him, who won great acclaim.
And so, sitting in his luxurious mansion, eating his fill of food and wine that he wastes without issue, Friedrichs bemoans how much of a badass he is who values war and wants to leave his mark on the world, and so he regularly pushes the army under his division to march more and more haphazardly onto French frontlines, regular mass death happening on both sides of the war.
Infuriated when he hears that German and French politicians have agreed to a ceasefire, to be enacted at 11:00 am on November 11th, Friedrichs swears to not let his role in the war end with such a whimper and gathers his troops at 10:45 am to order the hundreds of them to go on a last, desperate, doomed suicide run of the French frontline. When several of the troops try to avoid it, Friedrichs has them immediately shot dead as traitors, threatening the same to anyone else who won't march.
And so one last bloody fight breaks out between the French and German sides that claims hundreds more lives before the ceasefire is made "official", the bloody aftermath just another example of how War Is Hell.
Mitigating features?
Lol nope. Friedrichs whines and bitches that "democrats are ruining our country!" and that he wants to prove himself as a war hero like his father...while sitting in a comfy lounge ordering his men on suicide runs and bemoaning their cowardice to not be true soldier like himself. He's a hateable, disgusting piece of shit, and the closest thing to a positive quality he has is a dog he owns, but he has no true moments of care or love with it.
Heinousness?
So, it's a war, and there's plenty of blame to go around on those in power, but...Friedrichs' final gambit is horrific. As all of his hundreds of troops are delighted the war is over in 15 minutes, he orders them to march on the similarly unsuspecting and relieved French forces or be shot dead on the spot, sacrificing hundreds more lives on both sides in an insane gambit to claim a few meters of ground before the fighting "officially" ends.
Final Verdict?
Keep!
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
"The Juice is Loose."
Yeah no issues with Kano. Doesn't sound sincere to me.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Wait, Kano has more resources than Quan Chi here?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Agreed on Kano.
Professor Gigachad
Yeah he has access to Kronika's hourglass, along with an extremely powerful army in the Black Dragon.
CM Sandboxes, MB Sandboxes
OKAY, here we go. Let's dust off the old EP muscle:
What's the work?
Don't Worry Darling is a film by Olivia Wilde, the story of Alice Chambers living with her husband Jack in an idyllic community of 1950s-60s California...the men handle everything and the women are meant to be nice homemakers and not ask questions. Alice begins noticing something very wrong.
Jack works for the head of the "Victory" Project....I give you Frank.
Who is Frank and what's he done?
The handsome, old-fashioned ruler of Victory in all but name. Okay, MAJOR SPOILERS follow: Victory is not the 1950s. It's the future. Frank is a misogynist and arch-conservative who loathes the world in its current state. Alice is not Jack's happy wife, she was a woman with her own career. Most of the women in Victory were. Oh, but Frank offered their husbands a way to make them submissive: kidnapping them and brainwashing them in a mental simulation. Victory is nothing more than an elaborate virtual reality. But if you die in Victory, you die for real. One woman is emotionally blackmailed to stay by choice because she can imagine her children are alive there.
Another kills herself to escape. And yes, this is exactly as it sounds: Frank is a facilitator of mass rape, with the women conditioned to be happy and submissive to their husbands. Alice begins to notice something amiss and investigate more. Women who get too close? Are dragged off by Frank's men and tortured to condition them further.
A furious Alice kills Jack when she learns the truth and Frank tries to close in and stop her from escaping. As Alice escapes Victory, Frank realizes the trouble he's in....just as his wife Shelley stabs him through the heart, icily informing him she's taking over Victory for her own ends.
Mitigating issues?
The only thing is him introducing Shelley glowingly at an event. But there's no love between them for real and it turns out Shelley is either a victim of Victory, or Frank's partner in it. Frank is a bone-deep misogynist monster who forces women into brainwashing, rape and torture and abuse. He's the true villain until the end when Shelley takes over. I'd propose them as a duo, but it's a little ambiguous how much she's involved.
But no, does he sound like he has good qualities?
Conclusion?
A keeper.
Not the Eye
Yeah dosen’t sound like anything more than sarcasm from Kano
(she/her)
If you meant pinning the OP post, I just did that. You can holler a mod to pin and edit OP posts (they only appear with threads that have multiple threads though).
I'll link both of the CM/MB threads to the proposal O Ps.
Macron's notes
Might as well get one of my October EP's out.
For those who don’t know Bloodrayne is a cult classic video game series and More Popular Spin-Off to Nocturne focusing on the dhampir assassin, Rayne as she works on and off with the monster hunting Brimstone society, facing nazis in the first game, and her monstrous fathers cult in the second.
While Rayne's story is expanded on in dubiously canon comics set between games, Uwe Boll also made a trilogy of movies very loosely based on the games, with about the only thing they get right is Rayne being a dhampir monster hunter. However, the third film BloodRayne: The Third Reich, focuses on Rayne joining a resistance team against Nazis and their plot to empower the Third Reich. Making this about the only film in the trilogy half way faithful to the game.
This film gives us a Big Bad Duumvirate between Commandant Ekart Brand and Dr. Wolfgang Mangler.
Who are they ? What do they do ?
Twio high ranking officers in the Nazi party, both Brand and Mangler are responsible for overseeing the imprisonment and extermination of prisoners at a death camp. At the start of the film, Brand is leading his team in the capture and delivery of a hundred prisoners to the death camps, when their train runs afoul with Rayne and a resistance party. Together they end up rescuing the prisoners, while Rayne confronts Brand himself. Rayne is shot in the shoulder, causing some of her blood to splatter into Brand's mouth, after which Rayne bites his throat and impales him with rebar, leaving him to die.
Unknown to Rayne, her blood causes Brand to transform into a Daywalking Vampire, which Dr. Mangler takes note of. At the death camp, Mangler discovered a vampire in their midst; knowing their traditional weaknesses, he experiments by surgically torturing the vampire in inhumane manners that unsettle their Lieutenant Jaeger, to test the vampires limitations. When brought before Brand, Mangler realizes that due to Rayne’s blood, Brand has the same immunities as she does. Together, they plan to create a new strain from Rayne's blood; with all the strengths and powers of a vampire, but none of their weaknesses, and empower Hitler and the Third Reich.
While Brand is brought prisoners to satisfy his hunger, a prostitute at a local brothel approaches Brand and Mangler to reveal Rayne’s location. In return, they have her turned with Mangler locking her up to experiment with the effects of a vampire turned by Brand. While Brand leads an unsuccessful raid on the brothel, Mangler tortures the turned prostitute to test her resolve. Discovering she still has the same weaknesses as a traditional vampire - albeit to a lesser degree - Mangler concludes that Rayne’s "pure" blood is the key to the strain they’re looking for. He then kills the prostitute when she lures him into her cage.
Meanwhile, Brand starts getting high and mighty about his newfound immortality. To track Rayne, Brand and Mangler have an unwilling Jaeger turned, forcing him to sniff out Rayne’s blood, before going on to turn more of their soldiers. They later capture Magda, a code breaker and assassin in the resistance, with Brand biting and turning her. After torturing her for information, Brand and Mangler’s men lead attacks at the Resistance outposts, killing all but a few stragglers. On top of that, they successfully capture Rayne, and the resistance leader, Nathaniel.
During their capture, Mangler had Rayne tortured to draw as much of her "pure" blood from her as possible. While he has more than enough to empower Hitler and the higher ups, Mangler decides he’ll keep her alive as an "exhibit". Nathaniel, they just intend to hang. En route to Berlin, we are subjected to one of the most laughable Anti-Climax Boss moments in cinema; the surviving resistance lead an ambush on their convoy. Mangler attempts to flee the fighting, only to be killed by a sniper; while a cocky Brand drinks up Rayne’s blood sample, believing it will empower him. Seconds after he boasts about being "Power Incarnate"…he’s easily overpowered by Rayne, who smashes his head in with a boulder.
Mitigating Qualities ?
None between them.
Mangler is devoted to empowering Hitler and the Third Reich, but that is hardly what I’d call a redeeming quality. Other than that he’s a Mengele expy, who’s morbidly fascinated with vampires and how they can be utilized.
Brand is also a typical Nazi Commander Bad Guy, and once he becomes a Daywalking Vampire, starts to become deluded that he’s the prodigal son of the Third Reich, so much so, he sees himself as being above Hitler towards the end. His partner Lieutenant Jaeger seems to genuinely view him as a friend, but Brand doesn’t return the sentiment, only seeing him as a useful asset, before turning him against his will, just to make him a slightly more useful asset.
As far as being heinous goes, they both run death camps where we see hundreds of men, women and children being imprisoned; the film's opening is an long montage of prisoners Brand is rounding up and leading to said camp. However Mangler is the brains of the two, and the one with the nastier small crimes under his belt, through his torture and experiments. Together they have a teaching goal of turning Hitler and the Nazi party into vampires without weaknesses, and do see the resistance nearly wiped out.
Edited by Beast on Jan 16th 2023 at 7:23:24 AM
"It's like...a cliff, and if I do it, I'm just gonna...fall." "I think we're already falling."
The fact that a Sonic game showed a villain wiping out civilizations on screen was wild though
I’m plotting my schemes wherever I go! They’re perfect in every way…