Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Just a starting content creator
Caesar
And now for my own from the franchise, coming from the 1997 miniseries adaptation of The Woman in White, we have...uh, Glyde again!
Who is Glyde? What has he done?
- The same scheming creep of an aristocrat as in the original, Sir Percival Glyde is defined by his greed and monstrosity. He's introduced as the abusive husband of Laura Fairlie, regularly tormenting the woman and even taking to beating her but keeping the bruises hidden.
- The titular "woman in white" begins to stalk the grounds of Limmeridge House, and it comes out that the figure is Anne Catherick, a "madwoman" who has recently escaped an asylum. Despite her gaunt, ghostly appearance, Anne is a terrified, traumatized woman utterly broken from years of isolation and abuse in the asylum, and as she continues to wander around spreading word of a "secret" tied to Glyde, Glyde and his co-conspirator Fosco scheme to silence her once and for all.
- Glyde and Fosco kidnap both Anne and Laura, who bear a striking resemblance to one another, and concoct a heinous plot. They trick the asylum into believing that Laura is Anne, getting Laura falsely committed and subjected to the abuses of the asylum; Anne meanwhile is dressed as Laura and locked up in a tower with an open balcony right outside, Glyde and Fosco correctly anticipating that the insane Anne would jump off the tower to her death, framing it as Laura's suicide.
- With his real wife locked up and himself set to inherit her family fortune, Glyde seems well off, but Laura's half-sister Marian and her friend Hartwright refuse to let the suspicious circumstances lie, and begin investigating despite many a threat from Glyde and Fosco.
- The duo's investigations soon enough lead them to finding Laura, her mind heavily damaged and rendered temporarily mute from it all, in the asylum. They further locate a buried note drawn up by Anne from her youth that reveals the horrifying, Adaptational Villainy truth to the "secret": Glyde used his connections to the family and spent Anne's childhood, when she was as young as 12, raping her on a regular basis. The sexual abuse is what drove Anne "mad", and Glyde locked her up in an asylum for further abuse and Mind Rape to ensure the truth never came out.
- Clubbing Hartwright unconscious and trying to burn the note to eliminate his crimes, Glyde is faced down by Marian with a great exchange for the quotes page:
Marian: She was 12 years old.
Glyde: Oh, that. It is only the ravings of a disturbed child.
Marian: A "physical resource", you said. Yes the Cathericks were that, first the mother then the child, even in death!
Glyde: I heard you found (Laura). Is she of use to you now? In her condition?
Marian: Even now, you have no remorse! I will tell you, Sir Percival, what you are! You are a sham, a hollow shell, a false thing!
Glyde: I needed money. I did what I had to do. It is over now!
Marian: No, it is not over, and it will never be forgiven. No degree of self interest, no circumstance, not even ignorance can ever excuse what you have done to us! To me, and to my sisters! - In Glyde's haste to burn the note, he accidentally sets fire to the Limmeridge House, and in Marian's haste to escape him trying to silence her, she locks him inside the burning house. Marian almost helps Glyde escape as he cowardly begs for her help, but the flames encircle him and Hartwright drags Marian to safety as Glyde and the home burn to the ground.
- Laura luckily recovers from her abuse and time in the asylum slowly but surely, learning to speak again and finally having a happy ending with Marian and Hartwright, as they remember the tragedy of Anne.
"I find myself thinking of how they changed the letters on the grave. The grave that was no longer of my sister Laura, but of a child who was shut away for life because a man had abused her."
Mitigating features?
Not a one. He's a lecherous, abusive bastard who has no motive for his actions except his own greed, and any potential for a FE is shut down by Marian at the end.
Heinousness?
He's got the usual crimes of locking Anne in an asylum to rot and be driven mad, then arranging her death and locking his own abused wife in her place, but Glyde here has the eeeeextra nasty tidbit of having sexually abused Anne in her youth and that being the catalyst as to why he locked her away. It easily pushes him over along with the rest.
Final Verdict?
Keep!
Edited by Ravok on May 12th 2024 at 6:43:05 AM
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Justice for Skywarp
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
To this Glyde as well.
The Emperor of Evil!
to the Glydes.
To another Glyde
Mr. House
for Sir Glyde No. 2.
Gylde 1 and 2.
Also, I posted the discussion for Stellar Blade a few hours ago, here's the link for those that didn't see it: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=16738556630A78599000&page=1765#comment-44104
to Glyde (both of them) and Morpheus (Resident Evil). Rare to see a trans Complete Monster played straight (hope that doesn't come off as offensive, it was meant simply as an observation).
Lizzid people!
I mean, I don't really see why that's noteworthy to mention.
But yes to Glyde and Morpheus.
Edited by AustinDR on May 12th 2024 at 8:31:41 AM
....Phenomenal
for Glyde and Glyde 2: Gly Harder.
Glyde and Glyder
Just a starting content creator
Yes to Glyde 2.
(Man, I miss the Glyder games...)
Check out my YouTube channel! I make audiobooks and whatever else I feel like!
Goku Black
Not the Eye
another Glyde
Barb / Temporary Kylo
to Clyde.
Tomorrow, should finally...finally be ready to upload a proposal I have been wanting to do for a long time. It will be great to be done with it.
The First man
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to this Glyde.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
to both Glydes.
Accumulating Filibuster Counters
Reserving Dingo Doodles (Fool's Gold) as the current Arc Villain is shaping up to be another keeper.
"The only thing which is certain, is that something will happen".
Lord of Space
What is the work?
Shin Megami Tensei: DeviChil is an anime serving as a loose adaptation of the Shin Megami Tensei Devil Children sub-series; to be more precise, the games Black Book and Red Book.The series revolves around two children called Setsuna Kai and Mirai Kaname. These two aren't normal children: they're Devil Children, meaning they have demon DNA in them, which allows them to travel to the Expanse, the world where demons live. Each episode revolves around the protagonists and their allies traveling to the Expanse to fight evil demons, because if something bad happens to the Expanse, there will be negative consequences on the human world as well.
Before continuing, I want to specify that there's no official English dub of this anime (at least, to my knowledge) beyond the first episode, so I had to watch it in my native language (Italian). There's also another anime that loosely adapts some Devil Children games, but I won't be mentioning that since I think it's set in a different continuity (plus, that one is just outright lost media, so even if I wanted to, I couldn't watch it).
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
Lucifer himself is the Big Bad of the anime's first arc.Long before the show's events, humans and demons lived in their respective worlds in harmony, until Lucifer took over the Expanse and sent his minions to spread chaos across Earth; fortunately, humans and good demons allied themselves to defeat Lucifer and his army. A lot of time passed since then, but 10 years before the first episode, Lucifer attempted to inject demon DNA into a pair of human infants; he was fortunately stopped, and only part of that DNA ended up inside the children: this is how the Devil Children came to be. It's also worth mentioning that Lucifer had one of his minions, Fenrir, commit a genocide on the Cerberus Clan because he considered them too dangerous, killing all its members but a Cerberus named Cool.
In the present day, Lucifer seeks to conquer the rest of the Expanse. To achieve this, he brainwashes various benevolent demons (something he does by hitting them with lightnings, which is shown to be painful) and has them cause havoc among the Expanse, which obviously has negative consequences on the human world as well (to name a few examples: when he has Cool attack some benevolent demons with fireballs, rocks start raining on Earth; when he has Jack Frost freeze an island, temperatures on Earth raise at unnatural levels; when he has Asura attack Queen Frost's castle, humans freeze [they don't become literal ice, but they do become unable to move]; etc), forcing the Devil Children and their allies to go the Expanse and fight the evil demons each time to turn back into good demons.
Lucifer however also has some minions who are willingly working for him: Fenrir, Abaddon, Hel, Aziz and Belial. These latter two, once awakened, kidnap Mirai's father (who had been exploring the Expanse since a long time after injecting himself the demon DNA to find a way to defeat Lucifer for good) under Lucifer's orders due to the latter wanting to know about the access to the human world. It's implied that during his time as Lucifer's prisoner, Mirai's father is tortured by Fenrir and Abaddon to try and force him to reveal the secret. Regarding these two, it's worth mentioning that at some point they manage to reach the human world to try and find the way to create an easy access, before being sent back to the Expanse by the Devil Children. Lucifer isn't too happy with this given they disregarded his orders of keeping an eye on the prisoner, but he does say that the two ultimately did help him since the havoc they caused in the human world empowered him... but that doesn't stop him from punishing the two by throwing them into a deep hole.
Now at his full power, Lucifer unleashes his evil energy all over the Expanse, corrupting countless demons that start fighting the few that didn't get corrupted. This also has devastating effects on the human world: earthquakes, tornadoes, tsunamis; a true cataclysm. Our heroes obviously go to the Expanse, and they manage to defeat Aziz and Belial, before Lucifer himself starts attacking all the good demons with lasers from his castle in an attempt to burn them alive. Setsuna, Mirai, Cool, Veil and Archangel head to the castle to face him, but are soon attacked by energy balls. Eventually finding themselves in front of the Demon Lord himself, the final battle begins: things at first don't go well for our heroes at all, with Lucifer massacring Cool, Veil and Archangel with just a few attacks... but Setsuna and Mirai's friends, with the help of Mirai's grandfather, send their positive emotions to them, and so The Power of Friendship empowers Cool and Veil, allowing them to defeat Lucifer.
He also makes a surprising reappearance in the anime's third and final arc, but not much to say there since he's simply inside a crystal in a dormant state.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
If you know Shin Megami Tensei well enough, then you probably know that Lucifer there is often portrayed as a complex and affable villain (he's a Magnificent Bastard for a reason), and from what little I know of the Devil Children games, there he's an Adaptational Nice Guy.Well, take all of that, and throw it out of the window, because this Lucifer goes through a heavy Adaptational Villainy (or, well, I guess is closer to usual portrayals of the Devil). This version has absolutely no redeeming qualities whatsoever. Sure, he refers to Setsuna and Mirai as his children, and even offers them to rule the world alongside him, but don't forget for the entirety of the series he never had problems with endangering the two, and he even attacks Setsuna and electrifies him when the latter defies him, so it's pretty obvious he has no real care for the Devil Children and merely sees them as tools.
Also, while it's explained that he takes his powers from the negative emotions of both humans and demons, it's never said that he's Made of Evil, so moral agency isn't an issue either.
Are they bad enough?
Absolutely. Lucifer is responsible for many events within the series, with many of the other villains being nothing more than his minions.While there are independent villains that attempt to conquer the Expanse following his defeat (with three of them even mimicking his MO of brainwashing others), only one comes as close as him in terms of damages caused to both the Expanse and the human world.
Final verdict?
Yes to me.
Not the Eye
Goku Black
Lucifer
Lord of Space
ACW, I think you forgot to write the name.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I was just agreeing. Yes to Lucifer.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Unexpected![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]")
to Glyde
I DID IT MYYYYYYYYYYYYY WAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYYYY