Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Mr. House
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
for Turnball, Calvin Dunn, Dr. Eggman, Pal Bognar and the Sascha quote.
Woagh
to Bognar.
On Eggman, is he aware of what the Android Sonics would do to the world? Cuz reading the trope page i don't see anything about him being aware of their potential destruction of Earth.
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Yes to Bognar, have suggested the Mundus pic here.
King of the Koopas
Believe it or not, he actually overhears about silver’s backstory and exploits this to his advantage in order to manipulate sonic so yes he actually is aware but he does not give a shit as long as he brings down sonic to his lowest point then ends him.
The Ultimate Incarnation of Evil
The Draftsman of Doom
- "After Shakespeare": Clark Redmond is the greedy CEO of Mohawk Enterprises. A Shady Real Estate Agent looking to sell more rooms in his apartments, Redmond hopes to start a gang war in order to scare the original tenants out of their homes. Redmond has one of his associates manipulate some younger gangsters to kill a rival leader, while having guns sold to the gangs to further the conflict and violence, no matter how many people might die.
- "Color Lines": Duane Armstrong, otherwise known as the "Omega Bomber", is a racist former US Army Sergeant turned terrorist who holds progressive society in contempt. Having killed six people previously, Duane leaves fragments with the Greek letter "Omega" in his bombs, calling and taunting the police after each attack. Antagonizing NYPD Detectives Eddie Torres and J. C. Williams after his most recent attack, Duane subsequently attacks a Congressman with a bomb in his smoke detector. Eventually, Duane plans to attack a US Army General who received a promotion instead of him at a formal event with 100 people in attendance, but is thwarted by the police.
- "A Time of Faith" two-parter: Robert Olsen is a plain-looking White supremacist responsible for the firebombing of multiple churches in the Black community, endangering scores of civilians and successfully killing two people. After his accomplice, Jeffrey Lloyd, is caught attempting to burn down an unoccupied church by NYPD Detectives J. C. Williams and Tommy McNamara, and is subsequently used as an informant, Olsen snaps Jeffrey's neck and tosses him out the window, resulting in his own eventual arrest.
- "Drop-Dead Gorgeous": Paul Milan is a superficially charismatic and attractive modeling agent who regularly traffics his models as involuntary prostitutes. To this end, Milan has lured numerous models into relationships and hooked them on illegal substances. Having overdosed his current mistress Isabel after she had called him out for trying to pressure her into a tryst with another man, after a meeting with publisher "James Wilson"—actually NYPD Detective J. C. Williams, undercover—Milan attempts to hijack 51% control of the "magazine" from "Wilson" by having one of the other models murdered and framing him, a racket Milan has apparently carried out multiple times with several public figures. Lured into a confrontation with his "silent partner" Johnny Rinaldi upon discovering his extortion tapes are missing, Milan initially acts dismissive and smug towards Rinaldi, only to lose composure when Rinaldi tries to goad him into a murder confession.
- "Spare Parts": Dr. Royce, the respected chief of medical staff at the Gramercy Clinic, secretly harvests organs from the less fortunate, having targeted and arranged the murders of multiple impoverished teenagers for that purpose. Upon realizing that undercover Detective Nell Delaney has the same blood type as his favorite violinist, Royce attempts to extract her heart, only for NYPD Detectives J. C. Williams and Alec Stone to interfere. When confronted, Royce tries to argue that he has the right to choose who lives and dies due to his position.
I'm just going to abstain on Eggman and leave it there.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Is that just the order, or do the others have differences?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
The Draftsman of Doom
Made slight adjusments, mostly pothole changes, W, but I'm also showing the order.
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Abstain on Dr. Eggbotnik
Cross-wired freak
Abstain on Eggman
Listen to my podcast
Writeups look good, good job Sky
Ultimate Moral Compass
Abstain on Eggman
"No running in the halls!"
If it's all on the same page, I do have to question why one character has to be introduced as "Detective J. C. Williams" on repeat, it looks odd and with most entries we typically cut back to previously named characters to just the name they're most often given, we don't need the initials and title every time he's name dropped.
Gentle Laborer
Bognar
Well, today is the 26th anniversary of the Spencer Mansion incident. Why not celebrate with a re-evaluation of a particularly underrated RE villain? Specifically, the Big Bad of Dead Aim, a childhood game of mine. Also, before I start, the candidate in question is highly implied to be genderqueer so I'll be using they/them pronouns.
Who is Morpheus?
- A beautiful, elegant malignant narcissist with dreams of ruling a kingdom, Morpheus D. Duvall is unique in the franchise for being one of the very first villains to actually threaten entire countries—they're also a Sephiroth lookalike, for some reason. Morpheus started out as the manager of one of Umbrella's remote bases, the Bio-Sphere. Known for a history of ignoring the safety of employees, their career was marked by a number of deaths occurring under their supervision. Umbrella was not pleased with Morpheus and hatched a scheme to solve this issue: Morpheus was to be blamed for the Spencer Mansion incident and promptly kicked off the corporation.
- Desiring revenge for this "betrayal", Morpheus led a terrorist group to strike against Umbrella. Having adopted an extremely warped wordview that would shape their plans, Morpheus saw beauty as the center of everything and sought to "dominate" it, intending on building a personal kingdom in Africa where beauty would be the only thing that truly mattered—"I will eliminate the ugly things in the world and create my kingdom filled with beauty"—So yeah, basically eugenics. After successfully stealing T-Virus samples from Umbrella, Morpheus hijacked one of their luxury cruisers, the Spencer Rain, and released monsters that were kept contained within the ship, leading to the slaughter of everyone onboard, be they affiliated with Umbrella or not. Old habits die hard and Morpheus also let their own subordinates be killed during the hijacking, leaving Morpheus alone.
- With the help of a naive architect, Morpheus constructed a secret missile silo hidden beneath their old base and threatened to launch warheads loaded with the T-Virus against the US and China—we're told that Morpheus is specifically targeting major cities across the US, so it's safe to assume they'd do the same thing to China—unless both governments agreed to pay billions in cash to fund the creation of their kingdom. Shortly after the Spencer Rain is massacred, the US and China send elite agents to stop Morpheus—Bruce McGivern and Fong Ling, respectively—but the plan doesn't go as expected.
- When the game starts, we see Morpheus holding Bruce at gunpoint and preparing to kill the agent. Bruce is "saved" by the arrival of Fong Ling, who throws a grenade at the two—both escape, but Morpheus is left badly wounded as a result. Before succumbing to the wounds, however, Morpheus decides to inject themself with the T+G virus and transforms into a Tyrant with feminine features. Unlike most other Tyrants, Morpheus retains their individuality, sanity and sharp intellect after the transformation is complete, allowing them to use their newfound abilities to try to kill the duo.
- When the Spencer Rain is finally destroyed, Morpheus takes the opportunity to escape and goes to the Bio-Sphere, where the missile silo is located. China eventually agrees to pay the ransom... But Morpheus just activates the missiles anyway, willing to let both superpowers be destroyed and leave everything to be consumed by chaos just to have the last laugh. Morpheus uses Fong Ling as bait—"Shame on you, Bruce... A good agent would never risk his mission for a woman."—but the duo of agents manage to stop the launch and kill the terrorist for good, with Morpheus ironically mutating into an ugly blob creature that ends up exploding.
Mitigating Qualities? Not a single one, their hatred of Umbrella was born out of wounded pride and nothing more, eventually becoming just as bad as the Umbrella executives that Morpheus so despises.
Heinous? This is the elephant in the room: The franchise is very, very dark with a variety of horrible bioterrorists, businessmen, and cult leaders. I was against including Morpheus until I realized that Morpheus had everything going against them and still managed to almost succeed. Morpheus spends the entire game completely alone, bladly wounded and then transformed into a monster. Additionally, their terrorist group was so small that all of them were killed before the game even began.
Let's compare Morpheus with some of our listed bioterrorists: Albert Wesker started as a pupil of Ozwell Spencer himself and had the resources of organizations at his disposal; Osmund Saddler was the head of a large paramilitary cult and controlled an entire region in Spain; and Derek Simmons is the leader of a powerful conspiracy and held a high-ranking position within the government. See where I'm going here? Morpheus was basically a lone wolf at heart, and their actions almost led to the destruction of not one but two countries despite lacking the power and influence.
Conclusion? Comfortable
Edited by TheMadCr0w on May 11th 2024 at 3:59:23 PM
Ultimate Moral Compass
A much better RE-evaluation of them, Crow. Morpheus
Mr. House
for Morpheus D. Duvall.
Morpheus (speaking of RE-evaluation, anyone know why Alex Wesker does not count?)
The Draftsman of Doom
Yes to Morph.
Passing, I don't mind if you show me what exactly you mean in your edits.
To be fair, entries are not exactly supposed to reference each other.
Edited by SkyCat32 on May 11th 2024 at 12:14:31 PM
Your friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man.
Morpheus
Just a starting content creator
Morpheus
Dagded Dujardin
Morpheus
Not the Eye
Morpheus
Morpheus. He has about the same resources as Lucas Baker.
- Circe is an evil sorceress who resides in the ruins of what used to be London. Prevented from escaping the island due to a curse that will turn her to stone if she leaves, Circe works around this issue by searching for a young sorceress whose body she can steal for herself. For 500 years, Circe wrecks ships and maroons their crews on the island, inevitably petrifying them when she finds nobody worth possessing. By the time she finds a suitable host in Princess Ariel, the entire island is covered in hundreds of statues. Circe devises one of the worst fates ever planned for a hero in the series; swapping minds with Ariel and leaving the latter trapped and paralyzed in her own body, Circe tries to force Ariel to watch her friends die in a death trap, then intends to leave her forever on the island, still paralyzed and helpless.
Now we're cookin'! While nobody's lookin'! We're family! Culinarily!