Old Complete Monster cleanup thread
Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here
Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.
Here is how the process works:
- If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.
- After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".
- Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!
Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:
- To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!
- No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
- Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
- Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
- Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.
- Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").
- If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.
- If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!
- Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.
- Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.
- If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
- For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
- If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.
- Please keep all discussions "in-house".
- What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
- Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
- Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.
If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:
What is the work?
This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.
Who is the candidate and what have they done?
This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.
Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?
This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.
Are they bad enough?
A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:
- Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
- The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
- The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)
Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.
Final verdict?
This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.
And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!
Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Yes to the boy, Imposter, Jebus.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Jogo
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Circus Boy, Jebus and Impostor
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
The Great Evil
Edited by jlvs200s on Apr 30th 2024 at 10:12:46 AM
"Stand proud, Sukuna, you are strong." | He/Him
Not the Eye
Circus boy, Imposter and Jebus
Okay, it will soon be midnight where I live, so here is one from recent comic I kept my eye on for a while.
What is the work?
Kill Your Darlings is fantasy limited series written by Griffin Sheridan and Ethan S. Parker and by published by Image Comics. Eight year old Rose is imaginative girl who dreams of being hero in her own fantasy kingdom of Rosewood, until she mysteriously Burns her house and kills her mother. Eight years later, Rose is broken out from the center by her suposedly imaginary childhood friend, as she learns Rosewood is more real than she ever imagined and faces a monster that is truly responsible for death of her mother.
Main antagonist is centuries old witch who lived by killing her countless children and has Rose possesed by evil demon as a baby. Who was almost burned at a stake with her parent not lifting hand to help her while her friends were killed, truly loved her grandson and realises the error of her ways.
Her servant on other hand.
Who is The Great and Terrible Evil? What has it done?
A being from Realm of Terrors sommoned by witch Eleanor to get revenge on Rose’s mother after she accidentally killed her grandson, it possesed infant Rose and spent her childhood creeping in her mind. However, it turns out Rose is the first witch born in centuries and her magic made her imaginary world real. The Evil found a way there and slauthered kingdom while possesing Rose and using her to burn her mother alive. It made Rose’s world it’s playground, killing most of it’s inhabitants and draining life force from land, slowly reducing it into grey, barren husk.
When Rose and her friend Elliott are brought into the Rosewood, it posseses Elliott, keeping him aware of everything while attacking Rose with army of ressurected corpses it filled it’s cave with and vision of her burning mother all while taunting her. Evil uses Rose to go to the human world and slaugther all people in a video store where portal between worlds is located. It is about to kill Rose before venturing to world to slaugther more people with Elliott as it’s prisoner, until Eleanor shows up. The Evil opens the portal and brings her into Rosewood, which she transforms into her kingdom.
Casting off Elliott’s body, the Evil starts hunting Rose and others as they flee, causing avalanche of rocks that destroys village survivors were hiding in and killing all who coundn’t fit on the boats. After years of hunting, Rose faces it and sends it running back to Eleanor, who empowers is to go giant once again and completely destroy the world. The Evil is faced by Elliott on the giant Eagle until Rose persuades Eleanor to give up and she puts Evil down as it mocks her how breaking the pack means others of it’s kind will come for her, before being split in two by Rose’s sword.
Mitigating qualities?
Thing is basically demonic Psycho for Hire. No hint of agency issues, Eleanor does briefly speculate that it’s realm could be created by her same way Rose created her world, however it is only speculation and inhabitants of the Rose’s world show that creatures from those worlds have agency. It serves Eleanor purely because of their pact and when she has change of heart it openly hopes to get to personally kill her.
Heinous standard?
Eleanor herself is far from saint, killing and devouring her countless children over centuries to stay alive, including infants and turned Rosewood’s people into her slaves. The Great Evil however has almost killed entire world by the time Rose comes back, makes Elliott prisoner in his own body as it massacres video store and planned to make human world it’s new playground, before becoming Eleanor’s right hand to go thing for mass murder in Rosewood.
Conclusion?
Easy yes.
Edited by EmperorGeode on Apr 30th 2024 at 1:18:15 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Imposter, Jebus (that was one done by a ban evader, right?) and The Great and Terrible Evil (what a name).
Thanks 
Edited by LarryT on Apr 30th 2024 at 2:42:08 AM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Yeah, he was.
for the subtly named Great and Terrible Evil.
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Goku Black
evil
to Nora Vass, Circus Boy, Imposter, Jebus and The Great and Terrible Evil.
for Jeremiah and the Great and Terrible Evil
If we're keeping with the trend of candidates from stop-motion music videos from 1990's Alternative Metal bands, I've got a proposal from the absolute kings of Alternative Metal bands with weird fucked-up stop-motion music videos.
What is the Work?
The music video for Prison Sex, the second single from the Alternative Metal slash Progressive Metal band Tool's first album, Undertow. The song itself is an unpleasantly dark and depressing one about the cycle of child sexual abuse, and the video has the iconic level of Surreal Horror Nightmare Fuel you'd expect from a Tool to the point of being the current page image for Music Videos.
The video relates a fucked-up surrealist version of the song's imagery, revolving around a child-like puppet kept in a box-room by a Black Creature that regularly molests them in as non-explicit a way as a video intended to be aired on MTV can allow.
Who is the Candidate? What Have They Done?
The Black Puppet is the titular antagonist, a long, slender Humanoid Abomination that imprisoned the child-like puppet creature, ripping off their legs and keeping them trapped in a solitary box, which is only one of many. The Black Puppet regularly abducts the child puppet and blatantly molests them in a thinly-veiled fashion, combing over their body with a brush. As the child puppet searches desperately for escape as their mind continually falters more and more, it becomes clear that there isn't any chance for such. As they open the various cabinets the Black Puppet has, they reaches their hand out into an infinite black expanse, uncovers another cabinet that has a creature that has their face with a caterpillar body, and finds a meat puppet creature which attempts to escape before being deliberately crushed by the Black Puppet.
At the conclusion of the video, the Black Puppet hands the child puppet a brush after they blacks out due to its abuse, and after a vision of the child puppet morphing into the more skeletal form of the Black Puppet, they paint themselves with the black paint, representing the recirculating of the cycle of abuse.
Heinous Standard?
The only villain in the video. While the child puppet the video focuses on alone wouldn't be enough, it's made clear that it has several other victims that it keeps for its personal use in its various drawers, and we see three of them in the caterpillar, the baby-faced puppet and the meat creature that it kills.
Mitigating Factors?
The video is clearly metaphorical and full of the type of Surreal Horror that you'd see in the average Tool video, but the thing has a clear personality and takes sadistic pleasure in the actions it performs against the child puppet, which are shown on-screen, and which causes obvious trauma to the poor thing as it holds it hands in its hands, shakes violently, blacks out from stress and desperately attempts to find a way out of the Eldritch Location. The video ends with it obviously making a conceited effort to corrupt the child puppet into becoming like it, and it succeeds in the end. Clearly the surrealism isn't a problem here.
The only thing that gives me pause is the theme of the song itself, which is about the cycle of abuse. The end of the video showing the child puppet painting itself with black paint, which could imply that the Black Humanoid went through similar abuse, but there's no scenes directly showing this happening, and the video never encourages us to empathize with the thing at any point. Even if it was confirmed to be the case, the creature's actions are clearly completely horrifying and unjustifiable at any point that this potential previous abuse isn't really driving its actions and it is now driven by sexual sadism.
Verdict?
Probably Yes? The only thing that gives me pause is the implication of The Chain of Harm aspect of the song, but we never see the creature acting as a result of any trauma nor do we see it having experienced it.
Edited by Orangutans on Apr 30th 2024 at 7:47:04 AM
Lizzid people!
Sounds too surreal to be honest.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Was Norman Osborn from Spider Man Chronicles put up? I counted and he got 6 upvotes and no downvotes, and I don’t see him on the pending or page, but he was approved.
Edit: not sure on music video dude. We have approved some Surreal Horror candidates before, but I don’t know. I don’t have time to watch the video right now but I’ll offer an opinion later.
Not upvoting, gonna try to find time to watch it before I make a decision.
I counted, he got enough votes, what does the length have to do with anything?
Edited by LarryT on Apr 30th 2024 at 6:02:22 AM
In honor of Akira Toriyama
Lizzid people!
I mean, sure, but this one I think might be to metaphorical in how it conveys what happens.
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Was he approved? That EP was way too long.
Nora Vass, Circus Boy, Imposter, Jebus and The Great and Terrible Evil.
What’s the Work?
- The work is the Alvarez Rewrite A Fairy Tail rewrite fixfic for the Alvarez Empire arc.
Who is he what has he done?
- The proposed is none other than one of the series Big Bads “The Black Dragon of the Apocalypse” Acnologia, a Dragon Slayer who during the war known as the Dragon Kings Festival became a Dragon and began slaughtering Dragons to near extinction and became a threat to humanity as well.
- In addition to the crimes he commits in canon he is portrayed as far more evil here than he was in the anime/manga.
- Instead of being a doctor whose village was destroyed by a dragon and seeks revenge against their species, he was a member of a tribe and at age 16 slaughtered them all to satisfy his bloodlust, Including his own parents. He participated in the war known as the Dragon King Festival and slaughtered any dragon he came across not discriminating against which side they were on including the one that protected humans.
- He was actually overjoyed when transformed into a dragon by Zeref viewing it as a gift as he soon became the most powerful being in the world, something Zeref regrets. He only stopped his rampage because there was no one left that could challenge him, with no more Dragons for him to slay and viewing humans at the time as barley amusing, the only reason he didn’t wipe out humanity yet was because he grew bored.
- Once he realizes that Zeref found a power that could destroy him he decides to wipe out humanity before they could pose a threat to him.
- Upon entering the battlefield he murders August why shooting him in the back and beats the seemingly dead Irene’s corpse out of amusement, then proceeds to try and kill Fairy Tail and the allied guilds.
- Upon the final battle Activates his full power in order to fully enjoy himself in destroying humanity, starting with Fairy Tail and all their allies present.
- Even when facing death he was in disbelief upon his defeat and his only satisfaction before accepting his death was that it was the first time in a while that he felt alive.
Freudian Excuse Redeeming Qualities?
- None, unlike the anime this version was already evil before he became a Dragon Slayer having slaughter his tribe and family for pleasure. While he shows some begrudging respect towards those who put up a fight he still looks down on humanity as a whole, viewing them as inferior creatures and it doesn’t diminish the fact that he still plans to exterminate humanity to prevent them from becoming a threat to him. His death isn’t as sympathetic as it was portrayed in canon, as he is in disbelief that he could possibly be defeated, only acknowledging that it was the first time he felt the thill of living and how he preferred reaching for the top rather than already being on it. While he slowly accepts his death he shows no guilt or remorse for all the lives he’s taken and the suffering he’s caused for centuries all due to being bored and unable to satisfy his bloodlust, with the main cast and their allies celebrating his death rather than being sympathetic due to all the atrocities he’s committed. Overall he is a sadistic Omnicidal Maniac whose only pleasure is fighting strong opponents, massacring all who stand in his way before they pose a threat, and exterminating humanity.
Heinous Standards
- As the Big Bad and the most dangerous and powerful villain in the series, being far less sympathetic than he was in canon, and seeking the complete extermination of humanity. I say Acnologia meets the heinous standard.
Conclusion
- I say he is a yes.
Edited by Phantom25 on Apr 30th 2024 at 8:40:26 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
So did he like not feel alive before dying or something?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Basically he was bored due to no one being strong enough to give him thrills anymore.
Edited by Phantom25 on Apr 30th 2024 at 8:23:32 AM
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Ah. Sure to him.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
If he just dies enjoying the thrill of the fight that's fine but saying there's any degree of sombreness to his death is a cause for concern, unless you put that by mistake.
Understood, sorry if I confused you that’s a poor wording mistake on my part I’ll fix it.
Edited by Phantom25 on Apr 30th 2024 at 8:41:30 AM
to Amogus, Jebus, GATE, Nora and the Puppet
Edited by LoadsAndLoadsOfFreeTime on Apr 30th 2024 at 5:43:50 AM
You've been kicked out of the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse. :(
I'm gonna abstain looking at his death scene... the writing is pretty par the course for Acgnologia as he dies: very weird. He becomes serene as he realizes it was the challenge and the thrill of living he sought rather than being at the top and while it's more ambiguous, I can't tell if it's meant to be taken as a sympathetic death.
Showtime!
to the Evil
Abstain on the Puppet, it feels a little too allegorical and acno, got ![[nja]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/user_ninja_2074.png "[nja]"){kind=small}
'd
EDIT: Checked the lyrics for "Prison Sex", and the refrain of the song is first
Do unto others what has been done to you
and then
Do unto you now what has been done
And one of the last lines is
So I'd say the song and video lean too heavily on cycles of abuse for me to do anything but downvote
Edited by Libraryseraph on Apr 30th 2024 at 9:04:49 AM
Absolute destiny... apeachalypse?
Madness: Ascend is a short Fan Animation based on Madness Combat. It stars series protagonist Hank Wimbleton being much more heroic than usual as he attempts to put an end to the one responsible for turning Nevada into a hellish wasteland.
Who is Jebus? What has he done?
Jebus is the Big Bad of the short and is one of the culprits behind the state that Nevada is in. Jebus, along with his partner Sheriff, created a factory called the More Alive Factory which released "Life Smog" in order to make the people of Nevada feel more alive. In truth, it mutated them into having the cross-shaped faces that everyone in Madness Combat has and devastated Nevada and turned it into the red-skied wasteland it is in the present. All the while, Jebus keeps actual greenery and water for himself.
Hank attacks the factory to put an end to Jebus's horrid reign over Nevada and fights his way to the top of the factory, only to be killed by Jebus. Unfortunately for Jebus however, Hank strapped a bomb to himself that goes off after he dies, killing him and restoring Nevada to normal after the smog disappears.
Freudian Excuse? Mitigating factors?
No. While this is only a five-minute short, Jebus does get enough characterization; we see a propaganda video of how his factory will help the people of Nevada feel more alive that also shows off him smiling and being nice, showing off a level of manipulation. Plus the fact that he lives in a paradise with actual grass and water, which is nowhere else until Hank kills Jebus and destroys the smog generator.
Heinousness?
Jebus is the one responsible for the state that Nevada is in, with everyone having crosses for faces being because of the smog his factory releases, meaning he put a lot of people through some bad Body Horror. We also see Nevada being a wasteland with lots of destroyed buildings and corpses on the path to his factory.
And while he would appear to be sharing his crimes with the Sheriff, the latter never appears, so...
Verdict?
Keeper.