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Welcome to the Complete Monster proposal thread! This is the thread where new Complete Monster examples are vetted, approved, and written up. If you're looking for the general cleanup thread (for cuts, rewrites, expansions, and the like), please go here

Important: Before suggesting any new examples, please read the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List; if you have any questions, the odds are high they are answered there. Additionally, please check here for the earliest date a work can be discussed (usually two weeks from the U.S. release date) and whether the work has already been reserved by another user.

Here is how the process works:

    Process 

  1. If you have a candidate to propose, you can simply come right in and propose them! If the character's run is brief, such as a single issue of a comic book, then a simple summary of their actions and any potential redeeming qualities will be enough; for longer-running candidates, an effortpost (EP) might be helpful for organizing the proposal. An EP is not outright required, but please be mindful that if a post becomes too clunky and unorganized, it can be very hard for other people to follow.

  2. After the proposal, there will be a 72-hour discussion and voting period, where people may ask questions and vote on the candidate. The number of upvotes must outnumber the downvotes by at least five for the character to be considered "approved".

  3. Three days after the proposal has been made, if the character has been approved, you may post the writeup (the text to be posted on the trope page itself) on the thread and send it to the drafts page. Your candidate will soon be added to the CM subpage. If the work has a page, you should add your candidate to the relevant YMMV page. Voila! It's that simple!

Outside of this process, we do have a few ground rules:

    Ground Rules 

  1. To keep the thread moving at a reasonable pace, there are some restrictions on when a proposal can be made. There should only be a maximum of four EPs posted both per page and per hour to ensure that nothing gets lost in the shuffle; additionally, each individual troper should only be proposing or writing up characters from a maximum of three works at a time (from initial proposals to end of their voting period). If your proposal would fall outside of either of these guidelines, we'd like to ask you to please wait until they would fit within; feel free to type them up on an outside document, and then when the time comes, you can just copy, paste, and post!

  2. No plagiarism of any kind. This is a very serious matter site-wide, as the website could get in actual legal trouble over this; as a result, this can very quickly lead to mod intervention. This can take many different forms:
    1. Direct plagiarism, i.e. wholesale copying. This is not only the easiest to find, but is also the most likely to warrant quick moderator intervention. To be clear, quoting in some places is perfectly acceptable, but it has to be very clear you're quoting from something else and it cannot be anything longer than a sentence or two - if you're quoting an entire work summary from Wikipedia, no one is going to believe you've actually consumed the work, so even if you cite your source, your candidate will be downvoted anyway.
    2. Self-plagiarism. Even if you can prove that you wrote the same text in both places, the site itself can't contain any of the duplicated text. If you already wrote something once before, it's not too hard to write it a second time.
    3. Using another site's work as a template for a proposal. Just because you don't copy and paste something directly doesn't mean it's any harder to detect if you're basing parts or all of your proposal on text someone else wrote. To be clear, this doesn't violate site rules and won't lead to mod intervention, but just like if you directly plagiarize, no one will believe you've consumed the work if you're clearly basing your proposal on something else. This thread largely operates on the honor system, and tweaking someone else's work to pass it off as your own is one of the fastest ways to lose trust.

  3. Votes must be for specific candidates, meaning no blanket voting (i.e. "yes to everyone I missed").

  4. If you are the first person to downvote a candidate, please provide an explanation of why when you do so. We're here for discussions above all, and a hit-and-run downvote doesn't facilitate anything.

  5. If a work is already reserved by another user, please don't comment on the work or any potential characters worth discussion before the discussion date. We know how exciting it is when a work has a keeper that you're waiting to talk about, but it's not fair to the person who reserved the work who is just as excited to lead the discussion to see the discussion getting spoiled before they get to do it. On the other hand, if the reservation only has one name attached, shoot them a PM - they may be down for a collaboration, which will get you in on the fun as well!

  6. Please keep the thread on-topic. While discussing the trope is fun and we encourage people to enjoy it, questions like "who's your favorite CM" are off-topic and can lead to thumps. That's the kind of question to take to people's PMs if they're willing. Similarly, while we encourage friendliness and familiarity with other users, posts should always have some kind of thread-relevant purpose; for instance, if you want to wish someone a happy birthday, feel free to, but if it's the only thing in the post, it's off-topic and needs something else alongside it. Again, though, while we strive for a friendly atmosphere, this is not Facebook; life updates are fun, but unless they have some kind of impact on your thread participation, please do not bring it here - we have Yack Fest for that.

  7. Please refrain from asking anything along the lines of "How Did We Miss This One?" In almost every case, the answer is simply "No one thought about it before". This Is a Wiki where everyone has different interests, and the fact that people missed a particular candidate, even one that seems like a textbook example of a trope or a character who is particularly iconic in pop culture, means absolutely nothing. The question is disruptive, has a simple and consistent answer, and provides nothing to any discussion.

  8. If you are suspended from parts of the website, it is still possible to participate!
    1. For users who are suspended from editing the wiki, you still have full access to this thread. You can propose candidates and write them up with no issues whatsoever; while you will have to ask someone else to post the entry to the relevant pages once it is done, all write-ups are considered thread-approved - as in, done by consensus - and thus doing so does not violate any rules regarding meatpuppeting.
    2. If you are suspended from the forums, your participation is limited but not impossible. It is still possible for a forum-suspended user to assist in creating the write-up for a character who has already been approved; as previously mentioned, write-ups are inherently considered a consensus-based edit and thus not tied to any one particular user. However, you can not assist in the proposal of a character; as a proposal is based around the forum rather than the wiki, doing so with a forum suspension qualifies as meatpuppeting.

  9. Please keep all discussions "in-house".
    1. What other wikis use for CM equivalents is irrelevant here.
    2. Please be wary of using other wikis, Fandom or otherwise, as sources of information. They are just as fallible as a site like Wikipedia in regards to accuracy because they can be edited by any user, just as this site can.
    3. Do not attempt to force a communication with an author in an attempt to gather evidence or settle a debate; besides the fact that this is a YMMV trope and thus author intent has variable weight depending on the circumstance, doing so may cross the line into drama exportation, which is prohibited site-wide.

If you would like to use an EP for your candidate, here's the general format. This format does not have to be followed exactly, but these are the main topics that need to be covered:

    Effortpost Template 

What is the work?

This is a brief summary of the work you're going to discuss. We don't need a full plot summary here, just however much we need to understand going into the discussion — it can even be as simple as quoting the summary on the work's page.

Who is the candidate and what have they done?

This is essentially the character's biography — who they are, their story, the crimes they commit, and, preferably (though not required), what happens to the candidate at the end. It does not have to include every single thing they ever do — for some villains, we'd be here all day if that was the case — but it should include the highlights of their journey.

Any redeeming qualities? Freudian Excuse?

This is where any potential redeeming characteristics or tragic backstory should be discussed. Do they have a tragic past? Do they show that Even Evil Has Standards or Even Evil Has Loved Ones? Maybe a Pet the Dog moment or two? This is where these should be discussed in full. Not every potential redeeming moment is a clear-cut disqualifier, but we should hear of any potential issues to ensure the character is discussed in full.

Are they bad enough?

A Complete Monster has to be particularly vile by the standard of the work they appear in. Therefore, you should look at what the character does compared to similar characters in the same work. This takes into account things like:

  • Their resource level (a human Serial Killer can't stand up to an alien Omnicidal Maniac, but they can be bad by the standard of other human serial killers)
  • The amount of time they have to work with (such as a one-shot character versus long-running antagonists)
  • The quantity vs. quality of their crimes compared to others (someone with a lower victim count but far more visceral and personal crimes could be considered as equally bad overall as someone with a higher body count but less horror involved)

Essentially, this section is an analysis of the kinds of villainy shown in the work and an explanation of why this particular character's villainy stands out within it.

Final verdict?

This is where you post your final conclusion on the character in question. You can continue elaborating on your reasons or even just say a simple "yes" or "no"; at this point, we've heard everything we need to hear.

IMPORTANT NOTICE: This thread tackles very serious and dark matters on a daily basis. We will be discussing things like murder, rape, torture, human trafficking, crimes against children, and in particularly dark cases, several of these issues at the same time. We keep a lighthearted air, but all candidates carry the general assumption that these are awful individuals committing disgusting crimes. We ask that if you participate, you do so with the requisite seriousness such dark topics require; exclamations of how gross something is, whether serious or sarcastic, are disrespectful to the topics at hand, and if you cannot handle such topics, please do not participate.

And that's everything you need to know. Welcome to the thread!


Edited by Twiddler on Jan 17th 2024 at 5:42:49 AM

GamerBoy18 Mr. Since: Apr, 2022 Relationship Status: Abstaining
Mr.
#42901: Apr 28th 2024 at 9:20:34 AM

[tup] To SCP’s take on Dracula, Steve, and Gary.

TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#42902: Apr 28th 2024 at 9:52:09 AM

Hard [tdown] to Black Hiver

@ACW I mentioned it before, it's the game's own instruction manual, which is presented as a catalogue of "products" produced by Valiant Video Enterpresises, the company headed by Mr. Nasty. One of the pages shows a list of snuff films and at least a couple of them were clearly made with the "help" of police officers, CCPD Brutality Caught on Tape and In Carcer-ation Blues specifically.

MasterN Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button from Florida- I mean Unova Since: Aug, 2016 Relationship Status: Shipping fictional characters
#42903: Apr 28th 2024 at 10:01:39 AM

I thought we disregarded information within instruction manuals? That’s the reason Chairman Drek is up despite the manual saying he never forgets his mother’s birthday.

One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
miraculous Goku Black (Apprentice)
Goku Black
#42904: Apr 28th 2024 at 10:10:02 AM

I also rember we do that. Though is this stuff in the actual game.

"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
xie323 Since: Jul, 2009
#42905: Apr 28th 2024 at 10:30:20 AM

[tdown] Hiver

Now finally, my writeup for the Putrescent Mother:

Old World Blues (Hearts of Iron IV Game Mod using Fallout): The Putrescent Mother is an extradimensional horror brought forward into the material plane due to experiments carried out by American science before the Great War on a young girl named V. Taking advantage of V's immortality and powers developed through these experiments, the Mother promises her power if she will create a body for her. If V does not resist the Mother's influence, she and the Psykers of the Chained Choir will subject the inhabitants of post-apocalyptic Oklahoma to either mind control, Zombiefication, or having themselves killed and their bodies and souls stitched together to form a new body for the Mother. Those who get Zombiefied will be sent to work as slave labour indefinitely without rest and be used as fodder for the Psykers. Once the Mother awakens in her new body, she gruesomely disposes of V and the Choir and seeks to consume the entirety of the American wasteland, and eventually humanity itself.

PassingThrough Since: Feb, 2024
#42906: Apr 28th 2024 at 10:44:40 AM

I can get the reticence to want Schaffer listed since he never appears but like Nasty he’s got a detailed personality thanks to audio and as the head of the police he’s a key figure in making the snuff operation what it is. I support his inclusion.

TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#42907: Apr 28th 2024 at 10:55:08 AM

The manual's "narrative" is not just meant to be a simple introduction to Manhunt, it is explictly canon to the game itself, we see a van owned by Valiant Video Enterprises and Mr. Nasty himself appears in more promotional/tie-in material.

[down] Again, it was all in Mr. Nasty's effortpost. He's got his own webforum where his lackeys discuss murders and other crimes.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 28th 2024 at 3:00:51 PM

ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#42908: Apr 28th 2024 at 10:57:56 AM

Like what (not doubting you, just curious)?

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Ravok Caesar Since: Jun, 2015 Relationship Status: Complex: I'm real, they are imaginary
Caesar
#42909: Apr 28th 2024 at 11:27:57 AM

Yes to Schaffer! And yes, like Crow said, the manual is literally written to be an in-universe "catalog" made by Nasty and co., it's canon to the games and can be taken into account just fine.

WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
ACW Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster from Arlington, VA (near Washington, D.C.) Since: Jul, 2009
#42910: Apr 28th 2024 at 11:46:05 AM

I'll be honest, that's not a game I expected to have 4 monsters (especially when only two are really seen in the game).

EDIT: Found it (I think).

Edited by ACW on Apr 28th 2024 at 2:48:28 PM

CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Thermal7 Since: Oct, 2018
#42911: Apr 28th 2024 at 11:48:58 AM

@ACW: I wouldn't say it's so unexpected. Manhunt takes place in perhaps the crappiest Crapsack World out there, so it makes perfect sense.

"Our daddy taught us not be ashamed of our CM writeups, 'specially since they're such good side an' all" - some bald guy from some movie
MermaidEyes15 A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds from The Grand Dance of the Vast Universe of Life Since: Dec, 2021 Relationship Status: Puppy love
A Girl, Just One of Many Kinds
#42912: Apr 28th 2024 at 11:57:40 AM

Hmmm gonna go with a weak Yes to Schaffer. Compared to the four, he’d a pretty weak keeper honestly but ig I can see him counting

Keep Fighting. Keep Loving.
AutumnLeaves Since: Mar, 2014
#42913: Apr 28th 2024 at 12:03:27 PM

Writeups for Voldemort and Baelish.

  • Harry Potter fanfic The Very Secret Diary: Tom Riddle/Voldemort, or rather the part of his soul stuck in a diary, is a vicious and gleeful sociopath. He charms eleven-year-old Ginny Weasley into fully trusting him and encourages her to feed him her emotions and help him get stronger. He gradually starts to control her body and use her to let loose the basilisk, hoping for the latter's attacks on students to end fatally. After Ginny sees through his lies and Gaslighting, Voldemort drops his act and threatens her and her friends and family, forcing her to obey him when she's begging him to stop. He lures her into the Chamber of Secrets, planning for her to die there and for him to restore his bodily form, and delights in Ginny's despair as he promises to kill the people she loves.

  • A Song of Ice and Fire / Game of Thrones fanfic come on now, baby girl: Petyr Baelish is the owner of a strip club, but also secretly a drug dealer and the manager of a porn app Mockingbird. Among other things, Mockingbird has videos of actual gang rapes that Baelish pays a group of high school students to commit and film, including a so-called cherry section for which virgin girls are specifically picked as victims. It's revealed that there have been thirteen victims (only one of whom was rescued at the last moment) of the "cherry section" and they were all too ashamed or frightened to speak up openly for a long time. Although the hired perpetrators of the rapes are finally sent behind bars, Jaime and Brienne can't prove that Baelish is behind Mockingbird. Even with the rumors surrounding him, Baelish is completely unrepentant. Before further action can be taken against him, he is burned to death in a fire started by a serial arsonist, to nobody's sorrow.

Ghal-Sur Since: Jan, 2023
#42914: Apr 28th 2024 at 12:10:17 PM

Thermal 7:It's not just that. As ACW noted, we only meet half of the C Ms. Gary only counts because of the extras, and Nasty is literally behind it all.

[tup]Yogg-Saron, Grant and Walsh, A'gaeris, Vlad, Steve (great job) Diego (wow Griffin is much worse. Funny, always seemed very standard), Ramirez and Gary (great job gentlemen).

Thanks to everyone who voted for Reyes. Well, as expected. However, I have two quotes that are definitely better and more explicit and understandable. There are doubts about Sal's quote, but it is still better than Reyes' quote, and I think Waakzam's quote is excellent. And it’s not clear who is speaking, but I think even so everything is fine.

"Caesar asked us to provide a distraction on the Strip. So when he gives the word we're going to launch an all out assault on the Strip. First we're going to blow the Embassy, then we're going to use soldiers to kill every last motherfucker on the Strip. Then we'll run this joint. That'll teach Not-At-Home what can go on while he sits in his fucking ivory tower lording down from on high."
Big Sal, Fallout: New Vegas

"No, the world has passed on, child. The Eleem and their civilization is gone and will never return. Just another victim of the iron-shod will of the great enemy, who will go to other worlds. He must constantly seek fresh worlds to conquer, for he is driven by the urge to expand his genocidal empire. Billions of lives has he taken, this affliction on the universe, this sore upon the very fabric of being, and billions more will he take if he can."
on Waakzaam the Great, Bazil Broketail

Edited by Ghal-Sur on May 11th 2024 at 1:46:36 AM

Starkrafty pronounced 'Scraggle' (Pentatroper)
pronounced 'Scraggle'
#42915: Apr 28th 2024 at 12:16:44 PM

I'm in approval of both those quotes.

Watch for the sign of the Saint — he will be back!
EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Not the Eye
LarryT I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT! from the Eldritch Ocean Abyss Since: Aug, 2023
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP
jlvs200s Jogo from The Netherlands (Troper in training) Relationship Status: At the center of everything that happens to me
TheMadCr0w Gentle Laborer from Insignificant Little Blue Planet Since: Aug, 2015 Relationship Status: Get out of here, STALKER
Gentle Laborer
#42920: Apr 28th 2024 at 12:59:16 PM

[tup] to both quotes, good work!

@ACW Like Thermal said, it's not strange at all. Manhunt is still considered Rockstar's most controversial game, Carcer City manages to be worse than Vice City, Liberty City and the entire state of San Andreas combined.

Edited by TheMadCr0w on Apr 28th 2024 at 4:59:31 PM

Thermal7 Since: Oct, 2018
#42921: Apr 28th 2024 at 1:08:19 PM

[up] Also, Starkweather would have never been able to pull off his Snuff Film operation without support from Schaffer and Nasty, so even though they hardly appear in the game, their influence is substantial and the plot wouldn't have happened without them.

Edited by Thermal7 on Apr 28th 2024 at 1:08:35 AM

"Our daddy taught us not be ashamed of our CM writeups, 'specially since they're such good side an' all" - some bald guy from some movie
TurlesTheVegan from The Darkest Pit of the Underworld Since: Dec, 2023 Relationship Status: Chocolate!
#42922: Apr 28th 2024 at 1:40:19 PM

[tup] for both the Big Sal and Waakzaam quotes.

coolmaneditor Since: Nov, 2019 Relationship Status: In love with love
#42923: Apr 28th 2024 at 2:15:35 PM

Proposing a villain from another Danish work, this time a musical.

What is the work?

The Devil's Apprentice is a 2018 musical based on the first book in the series The Great Devil War by Kenneth B. Andersen. It's about a chronically moral goody-two-shoes named Filip who accidentally gets sent to Hell and apprenticed by the dying Lucifer, when the position of his heir had actually been meant for Filip's class bully Soeren. The situation gets further complicated by the fact that someone is planning to assassinate Lucifer and usurp him.

Who is Aziel Stofeles? What has he done?

  • Aziel is a young, sadistic, arrogant, and violent devil who looks down on everyone, even his peers. He's first seen with his lackey Fluks, trying to rob the elderly devil Grimben of his apples. Grimben is saved by Filip, whom Aziel, appalled by the sight of an unchained human in Hell, attempts to attack, before being talked down by his girlfriend Satina, though he vows that he and Filip will meet again.
  • Initially presented as little more than a love-interest-stealing bully, Aziel is actually wickedly ambitious. When he learns that Filip is to succeed Lucifer, Aziel reveals his own motivation: To take over Hell himself, which he is disappointed has become less evil of late. His reign would involve the persecution and genocide of all devils who fail to meet his standard of evil, all people like Filip, who don't have it in themselves to torture and maim.
  • Near the end of the musical, it's revealed that this is something Aziel has been actively working to achieve. He is the one who poisoned Lucifer, by forcing a boy to hide a rabbit's foot under his bed (its innate good luck is a toxin to Lucifer), and afterwards locking the boy in the cellar of an abandoned church with a "tyster", a black spectre that shatters the mind of anyone in its vicinity.
  • He beats Satina, calling her a "bitch" and a "human-lover", and tries to kill Filip before being knocked out by Fluks and later imprisoned.

Any redeeming qualities?

  • Moral Agency isn't an issue. While evilness is the aesthetic down in Hell, the devils are portrayed as completely normal citizens who have as much capacity for good as ill. The cast consists chiefly of devil characters, who are all as well-rounded as you and me. While the paranormal forces of good have a debilitating effect on the paranormal forces of evil specifically, it doesn't have anything to do with the nature of the inhabitants of the underworld. Aziel's plan, in a way, hinges on the devils having veritable Moral Agency, since he plans to instate a regime where every devil he deems too kind-hearted is purged, something all the characters can agree is going way, way too far.
  • Though he's in a relationship with Satina and seems to be attracted to her, he subverts it when he grows to despise her for liking Filip, physically abusing her and calling her all sorts of derogatory terms.

Heinous Standard?

  • Despite the musical having Hell as its main location, there aren't a lot of heinous individuals to speak of. Lucifer is the man in charge, and he just runs the operation he's destined to: Punishing evil-doers with all sorts of torments. Other than that, he's a pretty alright fellow.
  • The entire idea of Aziel's character is that he doesn't find Hell evil enough, and plans to kill both Lucifer and Filip so he can take over Hell and ensure all the pain and suffering is ramped up to the max. Crucially, his plan entails killing off all the devils that don't meet his standard of depravity, a complete cleansing of anyone with a halfway decent heart. Also, locking a young demon in a cellar with a mind-shattering ghost to waste away is pretty bad.

Final Verdict?

I think he's a Yes, if a weird one. Side note, the book version develops into a way different character, who I think is also a possible keep. Maybe one day I'll read those.

Edited by coolmaneditor on Apr 28th 2024 at 3:16:47 AM

EmperorGeode Not the Eye from A Galaxy far, far away Since: Oct, 2022 Relationship Status: On the prowl
Bullman "Cool. Coolcoolcool." Since: Jun, 2018 Relationship Status: Longing for my OTP

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