Spiritual Cleanup

• TRS.
• Job: Spiritual Successor's wicks and redirects and Spiritual Antithesis wicks.
• To-Do:
  • Move Spiritual Successor wicks to YMMV/ pages if any are not.
  • Verify examples for "works that are perceived to be similar to previous works, regardless of creator intention".
  • Dewick Spiritual Successor's redirects, particularly Spiritual Adaptation, which was merged with Spiritual Successor by TRS.
  • Move examples of "similar works not in the same franchise though by the same Creator" to Creator-Driven Successor.
  • Check if examples fit Follow the Leader, Whole-Plot Reference, Thematic Series, Sincerest Form of Flattery, Same Story, Different Names, Serial Numbers Filed Off or JustForFun.Surprisingly Similar Stories better.
• There are unfinished cleaning sandboxes Sandbox.Spiritual Successor Wick Cleaning and Sandbox.Spiritual Adaptation.
• Spiritual Antithesis is to remain not YMMV until it gets own TRS thread.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 2nd 2023 at 5:57:07 AM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

~GastonRabbit, verify if everything is right here.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

It's fine, but I'll move this to LTP because it would fit better there due to the scope.

Edit: Moved, and I clarified the part about Spiritual Adaptation being merged with Spiritual Successor.

Edited by GastonRabbit on Jan 2nd 2023 at 5:57:35 AM

Patiently awaiting the release of Paper Luigi and the Marvelous Compass.

Here's the questionable Spiritual Antithesis examples I brought up on the meta thread:

• Bluey is the exact opposite of Peppa Pig. Both are shows starring Funny Animal families. Bluey emphasizes play and makes sure both of the parents are respectfully portrayed, while Peppa doesn't have play as a central theme and makes Daddy Pig infamously a Bumbling Dad. Bluey is also relatively more grounded and tackles themes not usually seen in preschool shows, such as growing up in "Takeaway", which Peppa does not. Bluey is also more quiet and calm.

This feels like stealth-bashing of Peppa Pig, not to mention that the absence of something isn't its opposite.

• Dinosaur Train to Ready Jet Go!. Both are CGI PBS Kids shows created by Craig Bartlett teaching about science, but they cancel each other out in many ways. Dinosaur Train is set in prehistoric times and has a heavy dose of Anachronism Stew, as well as glossing over the more unsavory aspects of dinosaurs (mainly, them eating each other). Ready Jet Go! is set in the present day with a science-fiction twist, and the only instance of Anachronism Stew (when Pluto is included in the planetarium show) is lampshaded. Train has a massive cast, while Jet has a medium-sized cast. While Buddy and Jet are both outsiders, Jet at least lives with his biological parents — Buddy was adopted by the Pteranodons and he has no idea who his birth parents are. While Buddy and Jet are both All-Loving Heroes, Buddy never had to deal with a stalker who is out to expose him (the worst dinosaur he encountered was a bully named Keenan who only appeared a few times); Jet has to deal with Mitchell's spying on a consistent basis, although Mitchell becomes nicer to him. While Buddy is excitable, he's not as hyper and impulsive as Jet. Craig Bartlett noted that the transition from Train to Jet was like the transition to The Flintstones to The Jetsons for Hanna-Barbera.
  • Both shows also cancel out Hey Arnold!. Arnold, while having similar themes, humor, and characters to Jet and Train'', was aimed at a much older audience due to being on regular Nickelodeon and could deal with more heavy stuff like abuse and alcoholism. Arnold himself was much calmer than Buddy or Jet, and had to deal with a corrupt capitalist AND a sociopathic treasure hunter who tried to kill Arnold, whereas Buddy and Jet never met foes like these.

This is less of a stretch because these shows all have the same head writer, but it mainly focuses on weirdly specific things, and I have a sneaking suspicion it was written by that troper who got banned for writing overdramatic Ready Jet Go examples. Also, indentation.

Edited by NitroIndigo on Jan 3rd 2023 at 5:10:53 PM

First one is definitely using it to bash on Peppa Pig, I agree with cutting.

The second actually quotes a creator comparing the two, so it's on much firmer grounds, but it really needs trimming.

Stories don't tell us monsters exist; we knew that already. They show us that monsters can be trademarked and milked for years.

Also, all of the Super Smash Bros examples are about characters being antitheses rather than works, so I'll cut those as well.

I think the Bluey/Peppa Pig one can be reinstated with a rewrite, since if memory serves, Bluey was in part intended as a rebuttal to Peppa Pig, particularly in its portrayal of father figures.

Be kind.

Go ahead. (Maybe all the Spiritual X tropes could require Word of God confirmation?)

Edited by NitroIndigo on Jan 3rd 2023 at 7:28:44 PM

We already have Sincerest Form of Flattery and Spiritual Successor is specifically for uninntentional examples.

Edited by Amonimus on Jan 3rd 2023 at 10:30:46 PM

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Sincerest Form of Flattery sounds like it really should be classified as a Trivia trope. I'd seen it before but I always assumed it was for in-universe examples.

It should be, but it's a TRS question.

TroperWall / WikiMagic Cleanup

Alright, a bit late on the Bluey point because I was out all day yesterday, but how does this proposed rewrite look?

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• Bluey creator Joe Brumm was previously a staff member on fellow Funny Animal show Peppa Pig, and conceived his series as an Austrialian "replica" of the UK one. However, the two differ in their portrayal of family dynamics, particularly in the role of father figures. Whereas Peppa Pig depicts Daddy Pig as a Bumbling Dad, Bluey intentionally depicts Bandit in a more proactive role, particularly in parent-child play.

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I couldn't find an exact quote, but various articles I dug up about Bluey stated that the contrast between it and Peppa Pig were intentional on Brumm's part.

Be kind.

Sounds good.

I'm familiar with Ready Jet Go and seen every episode of it, and seen most of Dinosaur Train. The two shows DO go about their themes differently, despite having the same creator. It's like The Flintstones vs. The Jetsons thing. The Hey Arnold part was not needed, though. If you want, I'll rewrite the example and make it shorter.

EDIT: My rewrite

• Dinosaur Train to Ready Jet Go!. Both are PBS Kids shows created by Craig Bartlett teaching about science. Dinosaur Train is set in prehistoric times and teaches about paleontology. Ready Jet Go! is set in the present day with a science-fiction twist, and teaches astronomy. Craig Bartlett noted that the transition from Train to Jet was like the transition to The Flintstones to The Jetsons for Hanna-Barbera.

(btw, that troper only got banned twice, and both times it was for complaining, not for the Jet stuff. I have contact with the troper on another site, and she told me that she deactivated her account because she was ashamed of what she did. just letting you know)

Edited by sudrictoon on Jan 4th 2023 at 1:24:46 PM

We are the best friends, we stand as one. Whatever life may bring, we are never alone.

Alright; inserted and crosswicked the rewrite, citing this thread.

Be kind.

That looks good too.

So, I found this entry on SpiritualAntithesis.Live Action Films, and I really think the connection here is a stretch.

I've never seen anyone compare these two films together and the connection between them is so minute, it's hardly worth mentioning. Should it be cut?

I think that can be cut. That premise sounds basic enough that anything could have it.

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From YMMV.Pokemon Horizons The Series:

• Spiritual Successor: It's an adult male being hired to protect a young girl as they travel and are pursued by antagonistic forces, with the girl possessing something unique, an immunity in the older series and an item in this series, that are wanted by villainous organizations, making this as close to a kid-friendly The Last of Us as there probably will be. Bonus points for airing close to its Live Action adaptation.

That is way too generic, right? Especially considering that the villains in each don't even have the same motive ("something unique" being just one of many things too generic to mean anything here).

Edited by ShinyCottonCandy on May 15th 2023 at 10:33:46 AM

SoundCloud

That's indeed too general (and a massive stretch even if it weren't, those works have very little in common).

Edited by badtothebaritone on May 15th 2023 at 10:46:47 AM

From the Spiritual Adaptation section of YMMV.The Mandalorian:

• This is the closest thing to a Live-Action adaptation of Trigun as both The Mandalorian and Trigun are Science Fiction shows about the adventures of a gunslinger hero in a western-inspired setting.

It looks so vague that it makes me want to cringe, especially if it refuses to acknowledge the differences between the characters (both main and supporting), and the existence of any other made-for-TV Space Western. However, since this is a YMMV entry, I thought I should get someone's permission to remove it.

Edited by dsneybuf on May 21st 2023 at 6:58:03 AM

Yeah that's a huge shoehorn, considering scifi western is a huge subgenre as is.

Wasn't sure whether to bring there here or complaining, but Cars 2 on its Spiritual Successor bullet list mentions this:

• The movie is sometimes called "a DreamWorks Animation film made by Pixar". That isn't a compliment.

Not even listing a specific work it is spiritually connected to. I think it should be cut.

—signature not found—

Unsure if this thread is still usable but I'll bump it. I brought this up months ago in the Discussion tab of one of Pibby's pages, and since the show itself seems to have been canned, felt it was worth bringing up.

Does this warrant its own Spiritual Successor subpage? Many of the examples mentioned here are too broad to reasonably count:

• With the idea of a cartoon character realizing their normally upbeat world is in danger, said danger being a static void that erases/goes after/corrupts things it deems mistakes, and weaponizing its meta idea to turn what should be a normal kid-friendly looking cartoon on its head for surreal Fridge Horror purposes, Pibby is possibly the closest thing to a Darker and Edgier Amazing World of Gumball Actionized Sequel Series by [adult swim] for the Toonami block (this is somehow an out-of-field pick, but still). Gumball was even assimilated and Darwin is seen near the end of the short! The same can probably be said with DC's Dark Nights: Metal and its sequel, except with the Cartoon Network Multiverse (coincidentally, WB owns both DC and CN). The Gumball example could work on its own, but it has unneeded natter of being a "successor to a darker World of Gumball", a show that doesn't exist and wouldn't reasonably have a Spiritual Successor. It also brings up two examples in one entry and doesn't elaborate on the DC ones. It also has parenthesis mention it being an out of left field pick, something unnecessary.
• The premise of heroes barely surviving, then fighting against an eldritch, apocalyptic force that consumes and weaponizes famous characters from across different franchises has brought many comparisons to World of Light, the story mode for Super Smash Bros. Ultimate. Kinda reasonable comparison at a surface level, but Smash Ultimate doesn't have any real emphasis on a survivor story past the intro, nor a focus on horror given its lack of story, so there's not much in that game to be a spiritual successor of. That game doesn't play up the horrors of the premise like Pibby does, so this show can't be a successor of Smash.
• Pibby could be seen as an Adult Swim version of the Crossover Nexus event, a much less light-hearted take on characters from various Cartoon Network properties having to save the animated multiverse. Cartoon characters crossing over to save something is nothing new, especially when that special doesn't feature any enemy force resembling Pibby's conflict. Even for CN alone, Punch Time Explosion seems more relevant as an inspiration than this one-off special.
• The concept of fighting twisted versions of beloved characters has led to some people calling Pibby Adult Swim's version of Epic Mickey. The Massive Multiplayer Crossover aspect with an Original Generation protagonist who had their home consumed by a mysterious darkness and must now save the multiverse has also lead to a few comparisons with Kingdom Hearts. Both are valid examples I think. The use of existing I Ps as landscapes for a post apocalyptic plot feels very specific to these.
• You could even consider Pibby to have similar concepts to the Namco × Capcom/Project × Zone series, as you have original characters meeting and combatting ones from other franchises while travelling across a multiverse trying to stop an enigmatic and dangerous enemy. Original characters in crossover stories is nothing new, and very broad. In fact this entry admits to that by piling two different crossover games together in one entry. Not specific enough.
• Pibby can also be seen as a return to Adult Swim creating new shows by editing/parodying Hanna-Barbera cartoons, but with lots of Serial Escalation applied due to a lot more animated properties Warner Bros. owns being involved among, well, everything else. Needs a rewrite, but sounds like a valid comparison.
• As a Massive Multiplayer Crossover Deconstructor Fleet of cartoons with a force that can corrupt cartoon characters into horrible monsters, Pibby is probably the closest one can get to an Animated Adaptation of Scoob and Shag. :Unfamiliar with this webcomic, but looking at the characters tab, seems like a fair comparison.'
• Many have also pointed out that Pibby is essentially a creepypasta-flavored FusionFall adaptation. Also a fair comparison to make.

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I'd have done the edits myself, but there was another issue present: I don't think this work deserves a subpage entry at all and that the surviving examples could all just be placed in the YMMV tab. I feel with how broad and overplayed the concept of this show was, I feel people jumped the gun too quickly to add this subpage (given only the pilot existed), since most of the examples just list off many random unrelated preexisting crossovers as things that Pibby is a successor of. So, could I appeal for the subpage to be cut? And get the surviving entries to be moved to YMMV.

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