Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List
Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM
It's just a nice flourish imo and no worries, I've accidentally cut out parts of my entries before with accidental deletions.
Btw can we folderize the thread OP here and for CM since they're fairly lengthy?
Edited by 43110 on Dec 11th 2022 at 3:44:48 PM
Goku Black
Alright so I finally brought this pic to image pick in. In the interest of fairness I'm leaving a link here.
Anyone else want to weigh in on Leshy and Magnificus?
Magnificus I'll say keep on, Leshy... did I miss something or did that not really conclude?
LoreDeluxe said that a lot of his deeds came down to tricking the player + trapping the scrybes, but didn't elaborate on that. I didn't see that when I played the game. The player wandered into his house seemingly of their own initiative, and trapping the other scrybes consisted of getting his employee to fish up a piece of OLD_DATA, using it to control the game world, and then using his magic camera to trap them in cards; it wasn't some machiavellian game of wits.
Edited by Orbiting on Dec 11th 2022 at 7:51:01 AM
Leshy I think shows plenty of creativity and intellect in his games, at least enough for this. His prospector persona turns minions into useless gold nuggets that full up and nullify your board. His angler persona will use a fishing pole to steal your best cards. His trader persona will force trades for your good cards for bad cards. His final boss fight sees him using his soul capturing camera to capture the moon and turn it into a card. That's all in top of all the traps and tricky encounters he puts in his rogue-like game.
Story wise he does imprison the other scrybes in cards and is clever enough to place them in hard to unravel traps. All this combined with his love of story telling and ambiance during his Game Master section is enough to make him magnificent in my mind.
Doc Sharp did the effort post on Leshy so it would be good to get their two cents as well.
Edited by LoreDeluxe on Dec 11th 2022 at 4:59:11 AM
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Just call me Solemn.
Since there wasn't much feedback on my Crash Bandicoot rewrites other than some positive remarks, I'll be adding them to the drafts as is.
Otherwise known as SolemnStormcloud.
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
Yeah, having played it, Leshy does implicitly encourage you to make your death cards as powerful as you can specifically so he can turn them against you later, which is a brilliantly deceptive move. And during the third fight he makes you think you have to avoid hitting the trap cards, but then it turns out you actually want to hit as many as possible to get enough pelts to trade in the second phase, so if you played carefully you have just screwed yourself over.
One of these days, all of you will accept me as your supreme overlord.
The OP in the proposal thread demands that a MB has to be able to "Think on their feet" and deal with situations when something doesn't go according to their plans. Leshy never does this: he reacts to the player unlocking the talking cards by just being grouchy, apparently severely underestimating the danger they pose to him, and when the player gets ahold of his magic camera and film he lungs at them and tries to physically grab it out of their hands, getting himself trapped in a card by his own device since the struggle causes it to go off. His game is extremely linear and offers no opportunities to demonstrate that he can handle when things don't go his way, because he railroads the player into the exact same scenarios each time: the Stoat even complains that he does the same story (prospector, angler, trapper) over and over again.
I'd also argue that the use of the moon in the final battle is actually a demonstration of his shortsightedness, as it locks him out of using any other cards for the rest of the battle and is ridiculously easy to render helpless with the Stinkbug. While normally I'd attribute that to a flaw in the game, not the character, the fact that Leshy directly acknowledges this as a mistake of the game he designed (and to my recollection, none of the act 3 bosses PO3 designed could be cheesed so easily) makes me believe it's a character flaw, not a game one.
I'm not sure how much stick we pit into purely gameplay, but Leshy is very competent at countering your plays and pushing his advantage. He's a creature of habit admittedly but he is fully capable of thinking on his feet in the game.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Caesar
I think I'm good with keeping both Leshy and Magnificus from what I'm reading.
WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY!
Keep Leshy and Magnificus.
You can only write so much in your forum signature. It's not fair that I want to write a piece of writing yet it will cut me off in the mid
Berserk Button: misusing Berserk Button
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Just as a refresher since it has been a while since I played it, any specific examples of him countering strategies besides the ones I brought up?
The one that most immediately comes to mind is turning all your cards into useless nuggets during the prospector fight.
Think you're tough because you made it through Lord of the Rings? Real men survive The Silmarillion.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Leaning keep for Leshy and Magnificus
Also saw Violent Night, feel free to PM for my thoughts!
Yes, yes, old boy, we'd like nothing more than to stay and be a part of your primitive, barbaric society, but duty calls, duty calls...
Not the Eye
Keep Leshy and Magnificus.
I’ll go with a keep for Leshy as well.
Goku Black
Btw do we wanna contact Awesomekid and Scraggle. Their the only ones still pending.
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Woagh
Keep Magnificus and Leshy.
So does anyone mind if I edit Ms. Chalice's writeup for her stuff in season 3?
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Go for it!
Seconded!
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Oh, and FYI (Mir already knows this) I made a few changes yesterday to the In Death entries in the Sandbox.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Woagh
Had to take a car trip, but here it is. Still wondering why I didn't pothole The Charmer to her in the first place considering her M.O btw:
- Magnificent Bitch: Ms. Chalice is a young con artist who uses her natural charm to manipulate others, introduced tricking multiple citizens into giving her free items with nothing but her charm. Encountering Cuphead and Mugman spying on her, she decides to teach them her tricks out of amusement, training them on charming others and how to escape when caught, sincerely growing fond of the boys in the process. Forced to reluctantly abandon them during a break-in gone awry, she later convinces Elder Kettle to hide her from an angry mob before having fun with the boys as a genuine apology for her actions, saving them from the mob when they find her. Revealing her ghost powers to them, she often accompanies the boys in their antics, showing sincere loyalty to them while never losing her love of troublemaking, to the point she openly defies and nearly beats The Devil when he tries to make her betray her friends.
Edited by DoodSlayer136 on Dec 12th 2022 at 4:08:42 AM
NOISE IS CALLING, PICK UP PHONE
Good expansion; that's fine ACW.
You can re-add it if you'd like. Can't remember why I cut it out, to be honest.
TRS Wick Cleaning