Old Magnificent Bastard thread
Welcome to the Magnificent Bastard (MB) cleanup thread! This thread is where we clean up or cut already-existing entries.
If you're looking to add new entries, please see the approval thread.
IMPORTANT: Before you begin any discussions on this thread, please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List
Here, you'll find explanations of the criteria for the trope as well as our rules/procedures for approving and cutting candidates.
What goes through this thread?
- Cut requests. If you believe a MB has been approved and they do not count, this thread is where you propose their removal. To know how to go about this, please see the FAQ folder on the Administrivia page, where the process is explained in detail.
- If we ever need to consider cutting multiple examples without individually reviewing them (e.g. if we discover widespread plagiarism with a particular troper's MBs), the initial discussion will be on this thread and we'll then escalate to the mod team (as described here) to get a formal consensus if we decide to recommend a mass cut.
- If an entry was put on the wrong subpage/YMMV page, you may propose where they should be moved to.
- Full rewrites of existing entries, including expansions, trims, and ground-up rewrites. If your rewrite is approved by the thread, feel free to add it to the drafts page so that other users can check grammar and the like before it is included with the rest of the weekly swaps.
- If an entry on a work's YMMV page doesn't match the entry on the media subpage, you can bring it here to discuss which entry works better.
What does not go through this thread?
- New candidate proposals - as stated before, those are done on this thread.
- Unapproved wicks - if a Troper encounters either of these kinds of wicks, they can be cut with no approval.
- Any MB link on a non-YMMV page - as a YMMV trope, it should not be linked on those pages regardless of any cleanup effort. The only exception is if the wick is being used within the definition of another trope.
- If an MB link on a YMMV page refers to an unapproved character. If it refers to an approved character on any such page, the wick can stay. On the other hand, if the unapproved character being linked to sounds like they might have promise (and you don't feel like checking it out for yourself), feel free to mention it on the approval thread - someone may already know why they don't count, or it could invite a brand new discussion!
- Proposals for images, quotes, and videos of already-approved MBs - quotes and images are proposed on the approval thread, while videos can be uploaded normally as they are screened for approval by the moderation.
- Crosswicking examples to YMMV pages - if an example has already been approved and added to the main page, you do not require any special permission to add the example to a work's YMMV page (assuming the work has a page already). If a YMMV page doesn't exist yet, then you can make it yourself, but either way, feel free to just add the example without asking.
- Small changes to existing entries - these can simply be done on a Troper's own prerogative with no approval.
- Spelling and grammar fixes.
- Pothole changes.
- Minor rewordings.
- Spoiler tags.
While these changes do not require any kind of approval, it is requested that should you make any of these changes, you do one of the following:
- Make the same changes on the relevant Sandbox page, then add the Sandbox to the list at the bottom of the drafts page. This will add the Sandbox to the weekly swaps and ensure that the edits end up on the relevant locked page. If the Sandbox is already listed, then once you make the edits, your job is already done!
- If you don't know how the Sandboxes work or simply don't have the time to find it, then you can simply post on the thread about the changes you made. Someone else can then make the edit on the relevant Sandbox and add it to the weekly swaps.
- Alternatively, you can simply request that the change be made directly to the locked page on the Locked Pages thread. Members of this thread keep track of that one, so we will ensure that the changes are made in the Sandbox so that it doesn't get deleted during the next swap.
Again, these changes don't require any approval, but we prefer to keep the entries on the YMMV pages and the locked pages the same in order to avoid any miscommunication or errors between entries, so if you do make the change, we would greatly appreciate it if you could ensure the change is made on the locked page as well.
As a final note, we do not care what other sites have to say regarding whether or not a character counts. We have our own criteria and they have theirs for their MB equivalents; while they are similar, they are not exactly the same and should not be treated as such. Another site removing a character from their equivalent should not be a reason why a cut is proposed here, and if this is the case, it will likely lead to mod intervention.
Other than this, once again, welcome to the cleanup thread, and we look forward to your contributions!
Edited by Mrph1 on Jan 14th 2024 at 11:36:43 AM
A nice swimmer
MagnificentBastard.One Piece should have the Land Of Wano section re-arranged. Guernica is a little too high. I would say somehing like this:
- Kaido
- King
- Kanjuro
- Guernica
- Komurasaki
Fine with the Wano rearrangement.
While on the topic of Ace Attorney, I'd like to suggest a small change to an existing entry:
- Justice For All & Gyakuten Kenji 2: Shelly De Killer is a notorious assassin who always leaves a calling card so that the authorities do not suspect his clients, and he is discrete enough that few people ever knew what he looked like. Killing Juan Corrida on behalf of Matt Engarde, he kidnaps Maya and blackmails Phoenix into defending Engarde in court when his client's manager tampers with the crime scene to implicate him, and then shoots Franziska to remove her as prosecutor. He remotely testifies and frames Adrian Andrews as his client to exonerate Engarde. When Phoenix reveals that Engarde intends to blackmail him, De Killer, who values a trusting relationship with his clients, declares his intention to kill Engarde and releases Maya. Later hired by Simon Keyes to kill the president of Zheng Fa, he expertly infiltrates the president's guard detail and overpowers most of the bodyguards, only fleeing when the lead guard, Ethan Rooke, injures him. Learning that Rooke was killed, he demands that Edgeworth be allowed to investigate the murder of the man who bested him. Deducing that the president was an imposter and that Keyes lied about his identity, he aids Edgeworth in his investigation into his client's plot. When Edgeworth exposes Keyes, De Killer attempts to kill Keyes, but relents at the request of Sirhan Dogen and proceeds to evade Interpol's pursuit. Operating with a charming demeanor and a strong code of honor, De Killer is a cunning and dangerous threat to his targets and any dishonest clients.
I don't have any problems with the meat of the entry by itself, but de Killer appears in Investigations 2 and the entry mentions his actions there so I feel the entry should acknowledge that.
So question, was the anime version of Eren Yeager from Attack on Titan ever evaluated? because unlike the manga version that one has prolonged breakdown and admits he was an idiot for trapping everyone in this scenerio
A nice swimmer
I've rearrangged the sandbox for One Piece accordingly. I've also put a little bit more on Komurasaki's entry:
- Lady Komurasaki, real name Kozuki Hiyori, is the most beautiful woman in Wano, and sister of Kozuki Momonosuke. An elegant courtesan who deceives men into selling everything they own, including their families, only to abandon them, it is revealed she did this to members of an arson ring for the sake of the people. Faking her own death with the help of retainer Denjiro, Hiyori later lures the tyrannical Orochi into a trap, revealing her true identity and managing to ensure the wicked Shogun's demise.
Edited by TheWrongOne41 on Apr 25th 2024 at 8:37:34 AM
Due to unfortunate events, i will continue to exist until further notice.
Apologies for starting this discussion
Edited by xie323 on Apr 26th 2024 at 8:15:27 AM
The Moron
If other people have the series reserved, then you shouldn't be the one kicking the discussion off unless they've specifically given you permission, and it doesn't sound like they did that. I would respectfully ask that you blank that post until one of them gets to it
Anime!Eren was brought up but we agreed he still counts in the manga.
Okay, for Fallout (2024), as of right now we don't have anyone to add, the Ghoul/Cooper Howard is a wait and see, he can be real bastard at times while also being a cunning, badass gunslinger, but we're still very in the middle of his arc, so we have to see how it plays out first
But we might have a cut to make though
- Robert Edwin House is the multi-billionaire leader of New Vegas and one of the major factions vying for control of the Mojave Wasteland. House created the Strip, an oasis in the wasteland where people can gamble, drink, and bang as long as they have the cash for it, and took advantage of the situation with the New California Republic (NCR) and the Legion to bolster his own defenses and revenue, while keeping his agenda hidden. If the Courier chooses to help him, House enacts his plans; he activates his Securitron army, deals with potential problems via their destruction or cooperation, tries to save NCR President Aaron Kimball from assassination to use him as a political scapegoat later, and holds the NCR at gunpoint to accept the terms of surrender he made for them. Through it all, House is suave, ruthless, and deeply pragmatic, while showing his benevolent side during his interactions with the Courier.
So the season finale has a big secret meeting at Vault-Tec with representatives from the various pre-war Mega Corps, with house himself representing Rob-Co. And there we learn that Vault-Tec wasn't just banking on the Great War to profit, they were actively planning on starting it themselves with the backing of the other corps while they get to run their own experiments in the vaults.
So House is now possibly complicit in ending the world, which obviously quite an increase of bastardness. It also negates one of his most impressive feats, predicting when the war would happen and being off only by a couple hours and in fact raises the question of that if he was in on it, how was he off at all?
But there are two things stopping me from saying he definitely should be cut: 1 is that House was basically the Token Good Teammate out of everyone at that meeting, he was the only one who didn't immediately start suggesting inhumane experiments for the hell of it and the only point he brought up was a pragmatic one in that they're all banking on a war that might not happen, which is what causes Barb to reveal they're going to start the war.
The second is that the season ends on a cliffhanger that plainly tells us that season 2 is gonna be in Vegas, which means House is going to be at least mentioned and might go into more detail about House's specific involvement, which as of now is unclear.
So personally I'm unsure on his status but leaning on waiting for season 2, but there is definitely a case to cut him right now and it's worth a discussion.
REALITY IS AN ILLUSION, THE UNIVERSE IS A HOLOGRAM, BUY GOLD BYEEEE! | She/Her
Hmm, I'd say wait and see to be honest. I can definitely see the case to cut but I'd rather know how involved he was with all this before I definitively vote cut or keep.
I’d also vouch wait, especially if he’s likely to be a focus in the next season.
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
Wait and See on House personally.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Not the Eye
Gonna say keep House for now.
As I mentioned, keep now and wait and see.
If there’s any hint he was openly complicit the march to armageddon and that his questions were more about curiosity about viability than any genuine horror or he wasn’t but he was behind Vault 11(which is something I’m legitimately worried about given how the experiments were divided up between the corporations+House’s contempt for democracy and the masses already being an established characterization, and it being possible that they have him do a Even Evil Has Standards regarding the drive to war, but enough of an opportunist to take advantage of a very horrifying Vault experiment), he’s getting the Elesh Norn treatment.
If not, he’s staying.
Currently that Ghoul/OG Vault Boy could qualify for MB in the end. I did potentially pitch Moldover to Wet but her plans are too unnerving as it bascically involved rape and there is nothibg telling us that she wasn’t aware that the raider would rape Lucy.
Edited by xie323 on Apr 26th 2024 at 9:45:08 AM
Jogo
Keep House for now and wait until Season 2 before we make any further judgement on his status.
Edited by jlvs200s on Apr 26th 2024 at 6:31:33 PM
"Stand Proud, Sukuna, you are strong" | He/Him
Man in the Yellow Hat
Keep house, although he's on thin ice in my eyes.
He/Him
I'm fine to keep House for now—we'll see how he fares next season.
Classy, Refined, Unstable
Echoing the sentiment on keeping House for now but if future seasons make him too much then I'm all for cutting him.
Oh, Mr. Kennedy, you entertain me. To show my appreciation, I will help you awaken from your world of clichés.
I’ll take a potato chip… and EAT IT!
He’ll need a new pothole for his name though
In honor of Akira Toriyama
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
So, will Silco from Arcane.
Fan-Preferred Couple cleanup thread
Goku Black
Visionary Villain for Silco imo
"That's right mortal. By channeling my divine rage into power, I have forged a new instrument in which to destroy you."
Not the Eye
Second that
Corrupt Corporate Executive for House? To my understanding he lives and breathes that, doesn't he?
"Cool. Coolcoolcool."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
So this:
- Silco is a ruthless, complex crime lord and revolutionary, hellbent on securing the future of Zaun no matter the cost. Betrayed and scarred by his old partner Vander long ago when Silco's attempted uprising against Piltover grew violent, Silco bided his time for years as he secured himself a position in Zaun's criminal underworld, mass producing the drug Shimmer and swaying the chembarons under his banner. Ascending to further power as the unofficial leader of Zaun after he eliminates Vander, Silco keeps the ambitious chembarons under his thumb, earns the loyalty of his right-hand Sevika, and sows unrest through Piltover. Having adopted young Powder and molded her into Jinx as his surrogate daughter, Silco keeps the unhinged girl under his control despite her growing psychosis, and even when he has all bargaining power to cow Piltover to his demands, Silco gives it all up to secure Jinx's safety, maintaining his love for her as his child even when she unintentionally kills him. Charismatic, dangerously savvy, and possessing far more humanity and vulnerability than expected, Silco was defined by his love for Zaun and Jinx, determined to ensure empowerment of them both no matter the cost.
So, fairly quick cut from Legend (1985).
- Magnificent Bastard: The Lord of Darkness seeks to erase all light from the world and usher in a realm of night he can rule forever. A surprisingly soulful, intelligent devil, Darkness uses dreams to influence mankind itself, introducing himself to Princess Lili with sincerity and charm after he uses her innocence to have his goblin servitors bait a trap for the unicorns. Surprised at his own love for Lili and her purity, Darkness uses his charisma and seductive persona to try to sway her to marry him and give in to darkness, even spending his last moments boasting that he lives on in every man and can never truly be vanquished.
The Lord of Darkness is a cool villain, but he's not really that magnificent— his only opening plan is to send out his minions to do the work for him, and while he does earnestly fall for Princess Lili and try to seduce her, he's also very prone to anger toward her and throws some petulant fits when she won't accept his advances before then ultimately being fooled by her, with her never actually being interested in him for a moment. I see why he went up and he's a delight, but the actual planning behind his deeds is fairly lacking, and even his ultimate declaration that he lives on in all humans is prefaced by him asking for help from his "father" and is less a brilliant piece of scheming and more a simple statement that he's too powerful to be permanently killed.
To my recollection, he didn't actually get enough votes to be cut and was put back up as a result.